Apathy

[bananaphallus]

Would you describe yourself as generally apathetic?

I get the impression, from time to time, that the expression of any sort of enthusiasm, or to seem passionate about anything, is almost seen as a character flaw nowadays, and that to be cool, means to affect this sort of contrived nonchalance, sometimes bordering on jadedness [which is a skosh hilarious, to think a 17 or 18 y/o could be jaded], or in so many words - to not care about anyone or anything. Do you see this as a problem? If so, how did we end up 'here'? When did it become funny or cool to be stupid/feign stupidity or ignorance?

If you do consider yourself apathetic (for the most part), why do you think you're this way?

 

[Anthile]

Meh.

 

[bananaphallus]

Meh.

Exactly.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Would you describe yourself as generally apathetic?

Generally? Yes. But, there are specific events, times, people, whatever, that motivate or stimulate or excite me.

Not sure why I'm the way I am.

Dave

 

[bovinity]

I get the impression, from time to time, that the expression of any sort of enthusiasm, or to seem passionate about anything, is almost seen as a character flaw nowadays, and that to be cool, means to affect this sort of contrived nonchalance, sometimes bordering on jadedness [which is a skosh hilarious, to think a 17 or 18 y/o could be jaded], or in so many words - to not care about anyone or anything. Do you see this as a problem? If so, how did we end up 'here'? When did it become funny or cool to be stupid/feign stupidity or ignorance?

I totally agree. I think that to a degree this sort of behavior has been around ever since people started living in cities X000 years ago but there was always room for the artists and intellectuals to move above the guise of persona. Slowly but surely, less and less room is allotted for these kinds of people, and more and more people are falling into lives of what I like to call bullshit behavior which is increasing in both amount of people partaking and in overall superficiality, thanks to instantaneous spread of retarded mass media culture throughout the industrialized world.

You should read "On Bullshit" by some author whose name I can't remember. It talks about exactly this sort of thing.


On apathy: everything is interesting for the first few minutes to me. Whether I see long-lasting value in it or gain enjoyment from it is the main determining factor for whether or not I will return to it in the future. I don't consider myself an apathist then, no.

 

[green5]

i think that i appear to be apathetic to the people around me, but im not so sure i really am

and i dont really think that kids nowadays consider it to be cool to be apathetic, but in fact i believe that as technology and society advance, people are exposed to a lot more at much younger ages which makes them use to seeing new things at all times

this causes them to have less of a surprised reaction to even uncommon things

 

[Dormouse]

Everyone's apathetic to a certain degree. For example, while I am exited by reading about string theory, I am bored by wedding preparations and flower arrangements.
Whereas I have friends who are bananas for weddings and flower arrangements, but left completely cold by scientific literature.

It's all a question of your interests.

 

[green5]

Everyone's apathetic to a certain degree. For example, while I am exited by reading about string theory, I am bored by wedding preparations and flower arrangements.
Whereas I have friends who are bananas for weddings and flower arrangements, but left completely cold by scientific literature.

It's all a question of your interests.

string theory is a bunch of bullshit

 

[Cassandra]

Apathetic...sort of. Apathetic to the usual things. I can sympathize with a book, an idea, or a lamp just fine.

string theory is a bunch of bullshit

Prove...?

 

[SEPKA]

string theory is a bunch of bullshit

It is neither verified or falsified, its current state is merely a hypothesis, but too early to say.
I get excited easily by a lot of things (weird mechanical system, little funny invention, experimental result, etc.), and I show that excitedment outside, but things that usually supposed to make people excited usually do not excite me (for example, mindless sport, sex, slapstick comedy, 1001th version of the same jokes, rigid wedding, unneccesary increase in overpopulation factor, who love/hate who, etc.).
So I'm definitely not apathy, although people are likely to perceive me as such.
But I think sometimes it is a good ideas to pretend to be apathy. I got in close proximity with annoying people all the time, and if I crack their skull everytime I would go bankrupt while the lawyer have the last laugh.

 

[JUN]

Somehow... I can't feel apathetic towards anything at all. My sense are always on edge, always (or used to be anyway, pills solve it all) so... My sense used to be always on edge, everything would get to me and to a certain degree, it still does.

I get very very stressed when I see people behaving disrespectfully or in a way that they are violating other people's privacy or liberties, I get so incredibly angry when I see people mock each other or with random useless chattering. When I was younger i used to be an ambulant personality-police. I think that the fact that I can see through people too easily makes me feel very very angry at them.

This overall... Indulgence, ignorance and pleasure in ignorance and knowing that they are ignorants and having pleasure in it, unawareness, the non-caring, that apathetic attitude against the things that are wrong in this world really really get to me. Sometimes I just daydream about giving a huge lecture/brainwash in which I make people feel terrible about their own selfish/self-centered ways.

(For those who read my posts in the education thread you know that I'm all for society and working for it so you can understand how extremely affected by these things I am).

Ah and yeah, we're all apathetic to certain things to a certain degree like weddings and shit, but I don't think that's what we should be referring to when we talk about apathy.

 

[Cogwulf]

Apathy takes too much effort

 

[cheese]

I think the youth of today also affect cynicism, often without much grounds, which is extremely annoying.

I find most things adopted for the sake of appearance somewhat despicable, but only in those situations. Some people are genuinely apathetic, in that they experience minimal emotions and motivation. I don't despise them, but I do feel pity for these people as they don't seem truly alive (yes, I'm judging by my own standards). Not finding your own life, or anything around you, of much interest seems rather depressing.

I'm not apathetic, as I haven't found any solid reason to be so yet. Sometimes I despair, but many little things hold a great deal of interest for me, which almost always manages to bring me back up.

You could boil non-apathy down to emotional reactions. Curiosity, surprise, excitement, indignation, joy, anger, etc. I experience these over a broad range of issues, and I think it's one of the major reasons life is worth living, for me. Anyone who's experienced an epiphany, or resolved a particularly complex intellectual puzzle will appreciate the accompanying great excitement and satisfaction. There is no need to completely dismiss emotions just because most people experience them only in relation to far more 'unworthy' matters.

The marriage of mental achievement and emotion is very interesting to me.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Sometimes I just daydream about giving a huge lecture/brainwash in which I make people feel terrible about their own selfish/self-centered ways.

ISFJ tendencies?

I've often imagined myself doing something similar, going around "reframing" people's minds by deconstructing their values and explaining the reasoning behind my own, a sort of nihilistic evangelism. Of course this wouldn't actually work, most people are too apathetic or ignorant to care and of those who do listen many will have pre-held beliefs that I can't entirely discredit, i.e. I could explain to Da Blob why the universe is inherently meaningless, but he will just assume that was god's intention, adapting his beliefs to avoid having mine forced upon him.

Selfish people don’t bother me half as much as ignorant ones do, anyway the point of all this is that everyone wants to change the world in some way, make it better somehow, we just can't agree on what "better" is.

 

[JUN]

Not ISFJ tendencies, it's just me being an Aquarius (not like i believe but the description for Aquarius matches my personality in many ways, I care and want to fix the world).

I may be an INTP and this is so true it hurts, but I fight to make my ideas come true, I really do and all my thinking about how to improve this world... I wish it could have some purpose and that's why I dream of such a lecture.

And ignorant people are about the same as selfish people anyway, they're on the same level of social behavior retardation.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Not ISFJ tendencies, it's just me being an Aquarius

*head on desk, convulsing with laughter*

Thank you, that made my day night morning.

 

[Melkor]

I don't care about this thread enough to formulate a comprehensive reply.

 

[JUN]

*head on desk, convulsing with laughter*

Thank you, that made my day night morning.

Oh, c'mon man, even I know it's silly, but it was just a way to resume my personality without having to go all analytical and shit on myself. Since my personality matches the description of an Aquarius that's why i said it, seriously it's like you people don't even read the posts and just assume the worst.

I'm amazed.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Yeah yeah I know,
But the statement itself (context irrelevant) is just hilarious.

I have little doubt that as an INTP you can appreciate zodiac personality classifications in an entirely objective & rational way, if fact I apologize if this seemed like a personal shot to you, admittedly I'm not the most emotionally intelligent-individual.
...
Actually I'm just a blunt asshole, and shamelessly so.

 

[nickgray]

I get the impression, from time to time, that the expression of any sort of enthusiasm, or to seem passionate about anything, is almost seen as a character flaw nowadays

Huh? Who cares? I honestly don't give a rat's ass about what is "seen as /something/ nowadays". People see enthusiams as a character flaw? Well gee, fine. Now if there was a new trend about sticking your head in a toilet every morning to "get awake" would you do it? Humans, in general, are stupid unpredictable idiotic morons, so if these Hoo-mans want to feel "cool" about something - that's ok. It's just that some of us would still prefer coffee, no matter what.

 

[cheese]

Huh? Who cares? I honestly don't give a rat's ass about what is "seen as /something/ nowadays". People see enthusiams as a character flaw? Well gee, fine. Now if there was a new trend about sticking your head in a toilet every morning to "get awake" would you do it? Humans, in general, are stupid unpredictable idiotic morons, so if these Hoo-mans want to feel "cool" about something - that's ok. It's just that some of us would still prefer coffee, no matter what.

I know someone named Hooman.

 

[JUN]

Yeah yeah I know,
But the statement itself (context irrelevant) is just hilarious.

I have little doubt that as an INTP you can appreciate zodiac personality classifications in an entirely objective & rational way, if fact I apologize if this seemed like a personal shot to you, admittedly I'm not the most emotionally intelligent-individual.
...
Actually I'm just a blunt asshole, and shamelessly so.

That's cool, I'm a blunt asshole too and I understand that, I wasn't really affected by what you said I was just affected that you reacted to it without really thinking about it.

And, as an INTP I am simply fascinated by all sorts of things, the zodiac and the fact that it's descriptions and previsions are spot-on way too often when it comes to my life, really, if I told you the shit that has happened you'd laugh so hard yet be so amazed hahahahah.

I just bother with it because it has proven itself useful over the years, seriously.

 

[bananaphallus]

Huh? Who cares? I honestly don't give a rat's ass about what is "seen as /something/ nowadays". People see enthusiams as a character flaw? Well gee, fine. Now if there was a new trend about sticking your head in a toilet every morning to "get awake" would you do it? Humans, in general, are stupid unpredictable idiotic morons, so if these Hoo-mans want to feel "cool" about something - that's ok. It's just that some of us would still prefer coffee, no matter what.

Well bravo for 'not giving a rat's ass', and no to your question, under no circumstances would I consider jamming my head into a toilet, unless of course a kitten had fallen into 'la mar del diablo' in such a way as to leave me no choice but to headbutt it to safety.

I was just curious as to whether or not a generally apathetic/indifferent disposition had become something of a trend, culturally - answering questions with either 'nyahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh' or 'I dunno', and only those two answers, mindlessness and a stubborn 'disinterestedness' (out of insecurity? herd thought? because it's easier?) as surrogates for
knowledge-seeking/intellectualism/self-assuredness, all of the blockbuster teen flicks - pineapple express, knocked up, step brothers, etc. centering around bumbling, indolent fools 'falling down the stairs' through life.

I also like coffee. McD's 'McCafe' (one-word oxymoron?) Vanilla iced coffee in particular, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[nickgray]

I was just curious as to whether or not a generally apathetic/indifferent disposition had become something of a trend

If so, perhaps it's a better alternative to a shiny hypocritical smiles one sees so often. In any case it's just a different manifestation of the same 'mindlessness' people exhibit. The end result is the same.

I also like coffee. McD's 'McCafe' (one-word oxymoron?) Vanilla iced coffee in particular,

Turkish! Black, strong and no sugar. But I actually prefer tea to coffee, so I don't drink it much.

 

[bananaphallus]

If so, perhaps it's a better alternative to a shiny hypocritical smiles one sees so often. In any case it's just a different manifestation of the same 'mindlessness' people exhibit. The end result is the same.



Turkish! Black, strong and no sugar. But I actually prefer tea to coffee, so I don't drink it much.

(rampant, completely baseless conjecture below)

I think it's certainly possible this is just another manifestation of mindlessness, but I also don't think it's so far outside the realm of possibility that the unflappability, stoicism, and steadfastness typified by the heroes of yore (McQueen, Eastwood, etc.) have given way to this widespread emotional/cognitive atrophy, it could almost be seen as the natural progression of this disposition - deliberate repression of emotion -> forget what it means to 'feel something' -> apathy/indifference...or it could be the fluoride.

Black coffee!? You guy-man you! I bet you chop wood all day and say things like 'god dammit!' a lot.

 

[nickgray]

I think it's certainly possible this is just another manifestation of mindlessness, but I also don't think it's so far outside the realm of possibility that the unflappability, stoicism, and steadfastness typified by the heroes of yore

Hmm... well, isn't that the mindlessness thingy? Trying to emulate movie characters? Though maybe it's not apathy, but general indifference towards everything? It's been exhibited throughout the course of all the human history, it's not something that came with Eastwood and Leone.

Perhaps I misunderstood a little, I didn't consider apathy=indifference (I think of the first one as sort of a 'inner' apathy, and indifference is directed towards the outside world). If this is the case than I agree with you, indeed, a lot of humans are indifferent, but as I said, this is not a recent addition to our behavioral patterns.

Black coffee!? You guy-man you! I bet you chop wood all day and say things like 'god dammit!' a lot.

I'd love to make some lumberjack joke here, but I don't know any Nah, it's just that I like the coffee itself, not that beverage with milk, sugar and a coffee-like substance. Same with tea - no teabags and no sugar, they spoil everything.

 

[bananaphallus]

Hmm... well, isn't that the mindlessness thingy? Trying to emulate movie characters? Though maybe it's not apathy, but general indifference towards everything? It's been exhibited throughout the course of all the human history, it's not something that came with Eastwood and Leone.

Perhaps I misunderstood a little, I didn't consider apathy=indifference (I think of the first one as sort of a 'inner' apathy, and indifference is directed towards the outside world). If this is the case than I agree with you, indeed, a lot of humans are indifferent, but as I said, this is not a recent addition to our behavioral patterns.



I'd love to make some lumberjack joke here, but I don't know any Nah, it's just that I like the coffee itself, not that beverage with milk, sugar and a coffee-like substance. Same with tea - no teabags and no sugar, they spoil everything.

The problems may lie in the consensus we've come to (culturally) with respect to what exactly constitutes the masculine male archetype, the actors I mentioned were probably more a consequence rather than a cause. I agree with you that this isn't a recent addition to human behavioral patterns, not by any stretch of the imagination. Look at Sparta/Lacedaemon, the word 'laconic' being a derivation of the latter, a people who took immense pride in their economy with words/terseness, extraordinary mental and physical toughness, etc. (all traditionally masculine traits). I think it's possible that the indifference/apathy and widespread lack of emotional intelligence - traits seemingly inherent to men - are unforeseen/unintended ramifications of this misguided perception of what it means to be a 'man', i.e. the myth of masculinity - an illusory and often misleading concoction with very, very deep roots.

 

[nickgray]

Yep, gender stereotypes. Man are supposed to be tough and women - emotional. How strange, that while those stereotypes have little to do with reality, people still readily imitate them. "All the world's a stage" one guy wrote a while ago, couldn't agree more in this case.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I think people often mistake apathy and individualism - a lot of people seem to think that 'not caring' means they are being rebellious, or going against the grain of mainstream culture. If there is one thing worse then apathy it's probably schadenfreude, which a lot of people also seem to think is cool or rebellious.

 

[cheese]

Black coffee!? You guy-man you! I bet you chop wood all day and say things like 'god dammit!' a lot.

Aside from the wood, that's me. I think there's actually a link between the amount of black coffee I drink and the number of times I say 'goddammit'.

 

[SEPKA]

Yep, gender stereotypes. Man are supposed to be tough and women - emotional. How strange, that while those stereotypes have little to do with reality, people still readily imitate them.

Perhap it is because 70% of man are T and 70% of woman are F.
But then again, it might be a chicken and egg problem.

I think schadenfreude is better than apathy, simply people will still feel guilty when they laugh at someone's suffering and might help even though it cut out their source of fun, but for apathy, they just don't care at all.

 

[bovinity]

If there is one thing worse then apathy it's probably schadenfreude, which a lot of people also seem to think is cool or rebellious.

I enjoy a solid daily dose of schadenfreude. I am not cool, nor very rebellious.

 

[TheWanderer]

I think its more cool among teenagers, since the school enviroment tends to punish you if you are something other than just another face in the crowd.
I guess being apathetic and acting like you don't care gives the illusion you have control over a situation.
I think its a load of crap and it does annoy the hell out of me, but, whatca gonna do?

 

[shoeless]

apathy is the opposite of love and is, therefore, the most destructive force in the universe. in my humble opinion.

case in point: kitty genovese.

 

[Toad]

Isn't hatred the opposite of love?

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

I agree with Toad and not with shoeless, but a justification does not spring to mind.

 

[echoplex]

I'm apathetic about apathy. It seems like it would require too much effort to be truly apathetic. I'm actually a bit annoyed when people say things like "I don't care what anyone thinks." I used to say that, at least to myself, and then I realized it wasn't true and I was disappointed. Then I realized it's natural to care, because I'm a social being and the thoughts of others have the potential to impact me greatly. Then I was just disappointed it took me so long to figure that out.

Although, objectively, I can easily become quite apathetic about humanity, life, earth; seeing how they are possibly irrelevant, fleeting, and basically one big death march into universal oblivion. But screw it, I'm alive dammit, for now at least, and I have no time for apathy. They'll be plenty of time for it when I'm dead.

 

[shoeless]

Isn't hatred the opposite of love?

depends on how you define love, but, no.

hatred = extreme distaste for someone. okay, so if you define love as extreme like for someone, then, maybe. that's extremely basic and doesn't help much, if you ask me.

i define love as extreme care for someone or something, which gets a lot more complicated. so in hatred, it's still an extreme care for someone, just in the negative sense. apathy is the absence of care. therefore, apathy is the opposite of love.

i feel like i didn't explain that very well, but, it's something.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

@shoeless: Yes - the "extreme negative care" is exactly what makes it the opposite. What is the opposite of a white ball? It is not no ball at all. It is a black ball. That's not a very great example, but it shows the basic idea.

 

[shoeless]

@shoeless: Yes - the "extreme negative care" is exactly what makes it the opposite. What is the opposite of a white ball? It is not no ball at all. It is a black ball. That's not a very great example, but it shows the basic idea.

concepts are not quite as concrete as black and white balls. the opposite of having strong emotion would be having no emotion at all.

not all opposites are positives and negatives. the world is way more complex than that.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

I fundamentally see "opposite of foo" as being entirely different from "absence of foo."

 

[shoeless]

well, let's go with the black and white thing.

the opposite of white is black, correct?

well if we define white as all colors in the electromagnetic spectrum, and black as the absence of color, then black is the absence of white. and they're still opposites.

so i don't really see the problem here.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

Okay, that was even worse of an example than I had thought. Drat.

 

[shoeless]

YEAH, BOYYYY! WHAT NOW! WHAT! WHAT!




anyway.

 

[komiyama-nahori]

If it is not worth my attention or empathy, then I am apathetic towards it because showing emotion towards it would waste my time and mess with my mental state.

 

[Firehazard159]

I would say I'm highly passionate, but most people would call me dispassionate.

I'm thinking most of this has already been addressed on one level or another, but for me, it comes down to:

I'm apathetic towards most of the things that excite the general population (Probably S type things.) I can recall so many years of apathy, with breaks in between of someone doing something exciting for once - stimulating my mind with some hypothetical situation or some new theory. That's what excites me. I'll really get talking if you show an interest in something I care about.

Concepts excite me, materialism doesn't. It really just boils down to what you're referencing apathy towards. If I receive a new toy, for example, or gadget, it's extremely exciting to me, conceptually as to the potential it could have. But once I exhaust or run out of potential, the item becomes quite dull. Then I start thinking of what I would do to give the item more potential again, and my mind wanders down that path until I've envisioned an entirely new product, most likely. Then apathy sets in again, until the next intellectual stimulation comes along.