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'Aliens, UFO's & Spirituality'

Seteleechete

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The thing is, since the aliens(if they are in the neighbourhood) are likely to be technologically superior to us, there is little we can really do it's all up to the aliens to make the first move and (publically) reveal themselves. Independence day is hardly going to happen if they want us dead they can just kill us. Also is a saucer really the most effective form of space transport particularly if they are also entering the atmosphere.

Maybe they are sadists and enjoy playing with their food? But really what is their intention in all of this if your theory is correct.
 

Sinny91

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The whole premise of this thread is that they are not 'entering' the atmosphere, not in the sense your thinking :)
 

Haim

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In the last 5 years,what kind of tech?

A form you would expect...
That's sound like a dream where you see something in the dream,guess what it is,then it become more of the thing you guessed(most time the dream will change completely)
 

Sinny91

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I don't know, wish I did.
A perfect analogy, would be JK Rowlings 'Boggart'.

As a side note, I have a lot of stuff already made up on my other forum, but it's not public domain, I've requested it to be opened by the forum owner so I can share...
I like to cut to corners, if I can.
 

Black Rose

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Same shit they've always influenced.
Technology & ideology.

Collectives need not be biologically identical yet if they are the same species some humans have influence as a ufo collective. Attribution is terrestrial, extraterrestrial, psychological and extradimensional.

time and space - matter and energy
all can be manipulated but only by rules

https://youtu.be/sN-qxmb57uU
 

Sinny91

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I understand and agree with 2/3rds of your post Anime, but I need help with the remainder, which is your first sentence.
 

Black Rose

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I understand and agree with 2/3rds of your post Anime, but I need help with the remainder, which is your first sentence.

Some people I have observed say they are a ufo collective or have psychic links to ufo's / ET's. Some humans pretend to be ET's and the ET's they have contact with are not physical but psychological thus not ET's. ET's are physical in this galaxy or another galaxy. People get to subjective by what they mean so think ET's are archons (symbols - meme virus) instead of real and tangible. Energy is tangible and humans are tangible but energy takes a form which is manipulated by mathematical equations. Math is a form of archon (abstract intangible form) but we exist in the real world so this means some humans confuse ufo's with archons but really ufo's should be tangible technologies in space. UFO technology is not subjective but can be to some people. Some ET's are telepathic but they are tangible beings not just dream stuff.

A.I. is a machine not DNA based but they can use math to take forms inside the computer and physically with propulsion technology if they are ET A.I.

Extradimensional is the phase shift where my energy exists in the same physical space as yours but does not touch the energy already there.
 

Sinny91

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Which leaves me exactly where I want to be in regards to continuing this thread ;)

Anime, feel free to share more. For anyone else still waiting on me, I'd like to lead off Anime's posts, unless you are entering and leaving by a similiar angle.

(Kicking myself, just realised how I should have started this thread lol)
 

Haim

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That sound more like the result of our collective "brain" then aliens,our intelligence is shared,one new born person living his life with no other person won't accomplish much knowledge.
 

Black Rose

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DMT machine elves are extradimensional. When you take DMT your subjective awareness contacts the energy which these beings are made of that exist exactly where you are now but are not touching at this moment because you are not in phase with it. Multiple object can exist in the same space but move through each other. UFO technology can travel through this space because there is no gravity in some of these this dimensions thus faster than light speed is possible because without gravity there is no mass thus no resistance (inertia) to move against. What the UFO does is phase out of the frequency of the gravity waves just like light can pass through windows but not steal doors.

This is also how astral travel happens. What you see in the astral realm is a mirror of this reality sort of like a virtual reality that is intangible. You do not leave your body but instead like Skype move through the mirror world of the earth or galaxy. But this does not mean you are just your body. You are also mirrored in the astral realm so you do have an astral body but it is phase locked to this reality frame and cannot move. All your memories are stuck in this place called the akashic records. They are the echo of the energy of this reality. The control of what you feel in this reality is limited because mentally you are not as powerful as a UFO which take energy from here and uses it to move but the energy in the astral world is an echo. This world is the speaker that world is the air vibrations thus less density.

When your body dies all that is left is the echo. This echo can grow bigger with time but like a lucid dream to gain control you need experience with the mathematical properties which are resonance of overlapping phase shifts. Like a singer can break a wine glass with their voice you can learn how to phase shift to gain mental control of the echo. DMT elves have mastered this and is why they are so intelligent. They have full control of their mental states as a recursive self improvement. A.I. of the future will do the same with self modifying computer code.
 

Sinny91

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That sound more like the result of our collective "brain" then aliens,our intelligence is shared,one new born person living his life with no other person won't accomplish much knowledge.

The collective unconcious was Jungs theory of the UFO phenomena.

Sorry this is left hanging at the minute, I've just had 3 birthdays and a wedding to attend all back to back, plus a huge family flame war to deal with on top. Will pick this topic up as soon as I have a few hours, thanks for your patience - once again :facepalm:

(Although Anime has already pin-pointed the crux of the story)

Thanks for the addition Anime - by the way, I find your location to be of interest, will expand at some point.
 

Sinny91

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Re: Spaaaaaaaace!

The living moon.com and Pegasus Research Consortium
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?action=forum

The forum has direct links and dialogues with Jim Oberg, Martin Stubbs, Dr Joe Resnick and others.

All Your World's Are Belong To Us - Galactic Resource Management
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5945.0

American Space Act 2015
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8513.0

NASA and Plasma Phenomena
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8625.0

Strange Lights on Dwarf Planet Ceres
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7937.0

NASA 's Floating Orbs
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=247.0

Houston we Have a Problem: The OORT Cloud
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3903.0

NASA ' S Warp Drive Designs
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7633.0

History of Water on Mars
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7999.0

The Smoking Gun
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=419.0

The Secret NASA Transmissions
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2667.0

Martin Stubbs on STS 63 UFO'S
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7301.0

All Things Naval Space Command (Must read)
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?board=33.0
 

Sinny91

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Okay so following on from the note I've just made in Random Thoughts, I think I've pinned down an approach, but it will still be jumpy..

Getting a grip on the Alien Phenomena:
As previously stated this Phenomena has been with the human race since the dawn of man, albeit in various guises. I can't wholly blame myself for the confusion of this thread because the phenomena it's self is confusing, and is *supposed* to be confusing; This is by design, the question remains, who's design? ?

Theories on Origin
The main theories on the origin of UFO'S can be broken down thusly:

1) Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (Interstellar Aliens)
2) Extra Dimensional Hypothesis (Self explanatory)
3) Crypto Terrestrial Hypothesis (Other Earth Inhabitants)
4) Time Dimensional Hypothesis (Time travellers)
5) Null hypothesis (known terrestrial origins)
6) Abrahamic Demons/Jinn (closely related to EDH)
7) God's.
8) Jungs Collective Unconscious.

As previously alluded to, the evidence is mounting steadily against the typical ETH hypothesis, which is fast becoming obsolete. Interstellar travel just does not account for everything we are experiencing.. This can be explored later. What I propose is a mixture of more than one of the above hypotheses, and for that reason I'd quite like to implement a term coined by the late and legendary John A Keel, 'ULTRA TERRESTRIALS'.

Quite frankly we are far from having this all sussed out, and so for the mean time, we just know these entities aren't us, (unless you're opting into the time travel theory, which I'm personally skeptical of.. For now).. This is a notion that John shared and so for simplicity he termed them Ultra.

ETA: I finally get motivated and the storms in the UK have decided to interfere...
 

Sinny91

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Note to self:
http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/ess_egregore.html

d’Arc: If Reich had lived beyond the mindset of the fifties, do you think he would have changed his view of UFOs as “machines from another planet?”

Constable: Sure, I think that he would have readily expanded his initial conception of UFOs as machines from another planet. However, I want to point out something significant here, and I never tire of re-emphasizing this, because it never seems to sink in, that it’s not a question of having spaceships or plasmoidal organisms: you have both! There are at least two dimensions to the UFO phenomenon. One is the spaceships idea and the other is the living organisms. And because in the mode of their manifestation these two aspects of the UFO phenomenon are mutually confused, nobody seems to have been able to straighten it out, except me.

People believe that you’ve got ships from other planets and you can’t have anything else. If you’re going to have biological critters in the upper atmosphere, well then you can’t have the other. You’ve got to have both. And what this does is expand your consciousness. And that is one of the good things about this whole phenomenon in all its diversity. You’ve got to get your consciousness expanded and operating along new lines. The old ways are dead and gone, like this civilization of ours. I certainly believe that Reich, had he lived, would have expanded his understanding of these things, because he had the mentality and the observational power to do so. But, you can’t expect very much of a man at a critical time of his life when he was being harassed and hounded by the medical profession, the psychiatric profession, the FDA, and the courts. You can’t expect much from a man who is under that kind of pressure.

d’Arc: What was your theory of space and flying saucer propulsion in 1958, when you wrote your classic book They Live in the Sky, and how have your theories changed since then? Were you influenced by Wilhelm Reich’s work (described in his book Contact With Space) and were you pursuing a similar path in your research?

Constable: My theories in 1958 I cannot recall for you in detail or compare them to the views that I hold now. But basically there wasn’t a great deal of difference, it’s just that in the meantime more and more evidence has accumulated. The basic idea that the source of all these things is the invisible has continued to gain momentum and continued to gain status because of the derelictions and inadequacies of the formal theories. I was influenced by Wilhelm Reich, but not until after I had made my original contribution with They Live in the Sky. I did not know Reich existed or I might have written that book differently. That influence came along later and is part of subsequent development worked out in Cosmic Pulse of Life, which correlates with work from Romania and Italy.

d’Arc: Does the appearance of UFOs in the skies have anything to do with the “destruction of the industrial, financial, moral and spiritual fabric of the USA?” Is the American decline an engineering job on the part of an otherworld intelligence which somehow rules the planet Earth through its top power elite?
http://paranoidsonline.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/cosmic-pulse-of-trevor-james-constable.html?m=1

David Sereda collaboration with Trevor James Constable.
http://www.noufors.com/Documents/evidence.pdf

Trevor Constables Current Website:
http://www.rainengineering.com/


They Live in The Sky" by Trevor Constable (1958)They Live in the Sky!: Trevor James: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/319Bx98qqeL.@@AMEPARAM@@319Bx98qqeL


The Cosmic Pulse of Life Scridb (1976)301 Moved Permanently

The Invisible Realm* - Trevor James Constable (2008)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBck494b4Pg&app=desktop

Watch at 40 mins


( on my phone testing it's functions )
 

Pizzabeak

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Sinny91

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Re: Spaaaaaaaace!

To bad for who?

I'm merely sharing the topics as I revisit them.
And the crater chain thread isn't crap at all.
 

Pizzabeak

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Re: Spaaaaaaaace!

For the people you are sharing it with. And possibly anyone hoping to make a valuable contribution, which typically isn't reason for condemnation.
There is some decent discussion in that one though, as a wealth of information about a world's past can be obtained from crater formation. I am not sure about anything else, though.
 

ActiveMind

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This subject fascinates me immensely since pouring over the seemingly endless amounts of info coming from the web. There's of course a lot of disinfo and whatnot, so it can be very hard to remain objective. The two pieces of info that stand out the most to me is the Hidden Hand posts from GLP as well as it's 'counterpart', the Ra material (Law of One) which i posted in another thread. The literature had that 'shock' value to it when I read them for the first time. They haven't been fully debunked as far as i can tell... should be highly relevant to this thread...
 

Sinny91

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Over the last 4 years I've found myself always returning to The Law of One. Have you covered the whole of The Law of One? Have you read the other LL research material? Like the Brown Notebook etc.?

I have mixed feelings when it comes to paranormal contact...
Most of it is detrimental for sure..but I'm unsure if it's all detrimental - Carla stands by Ra and their mission but I have to remain skeptical for reasons like those discovered by Joe Fisher, (I think I posted that here somewhere, Siren Call for Hungry Ghosts), Trevor James Constable and many many more.

But having said that.. I spent 6 months in a medative state back in 2012 with the help of Ra... They were the most peaceful 6 months of my life... Since then, I've slowly returned to being mentally and spiritually lazy, my energies and motivations have deteriorated.. I must start applying some more mental discipline to attain that peace again.

I haven't re-capped on the Hidden Hand in a year or two, Ill have to go and refresh. I've just spent the last few days revisiting some old stuff over at Alpha Tango Spooks.

Part of the reason I'm so slow updating everything here is no sooner am I constructing something, I get distracted in research mode and lost down old/new labyrinths.

The 911 discussion over here prompted me to return to 911 work elsewhere...
 

Sinny91

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The literature had that 'shock' value to it when I read them for the first time. They haven't been fully debunked as far as i can tell... should be highly relevant to this thread...

Anyway, I have this good friend and research associate who stead fast believes that all this stuff, including Law of One (LOO) , is all psy-ops.

Now he does have strong cause to believe this, many many channels can be traced back to 3 letter agencies , psy-ops and known perpetrators.

In this instance, the members of LL research - Carla, Don and Jim had ties to Puharich, who was neck deep in psy-ops... But having said that, he's also neck deep in the occult and and real extra dimensional Phenomena.

I hope in future to be able to separate the blurred line between fact and fiction. But it doesn't help that our dimensional counterparts appear to be tricksters and cosmic jokers..

This is my favorite part of the subject xD
 

ActiveMind

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It's interesting you mention Psy-Ops as I thought it could be a possibility. But upon further reflection, I find it hard to imagine what agenda could be behind revealing the core aspect of all organized religion(we are one).

I watched a video interview with the LL Research team thinking I'd find more information. At one point they made reference to the healers in the Philippines that would remove negative material barehanded while their patients would miraculously survive, which had been debunked in the 80s. Not sure if they had endorsed it at the time but I made note of that because it sounded like the gentleman speaking had believed it.
 

Sinny91

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When you say the psychic surgery was debunked, can you help with that? Was Carla's surgery debunked?

You can hear about their experiences in South America here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO0DT40csVo&app=desktop

In regards the 'why' about psy-ops we can only try our best to make an educated guess.

But look at what happened with Serpo, The Avairy, Paul Bennewitz, and Uri Geller etc. Known psy-ops. Orson Wells 'War of the Worlds' being one of the first.

Seems the New Age religions reach across all sectors, from Nazi Germany to the United Nations (well that's not far of a stretch honestly haha)...
I love the subject of Para Politics.. Even Lee Harvey Oswald can be connected to Puharich and a group called the Roundtable, all neck deep in the paranormal.

Psy-ops take up a large portion of UFOlogy (the reason is rather obvious) , I'm looking forward to sharing info in this regard.. The subject greatly separates the critical thinkers and pure believers in UFOlogy.
 

ActiveMind

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I saw an episode of Unsolved Mysteries years ago that showed how they would use concealed pig's blood during the 'surgery' to give the impression they were manipulating the body's internal organs while having the patient hold a crucifix or small cross the whole time. The episode went on to show the local authorities had arrested the people in connection.
 

Sinny91

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A solved mystery on Unsolved Mysteries?

Lol.

I'm gonna go check it out.
 

Sinny91

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Re: Spaaaaaaaace!

I've just started reading this thread:

KAGUYA SELENE

A Japanese Moon Tale

In the Anime World Princess Kaguya is a Demon, a Fallen Angel

Now bare with me as we go on a Tale of Deception that will lead us down many rabbit holes. It will take several threads and cover several topics but it will all be tied together. What happened here today was that I was looking through my work shop for threads I had on hold waiting to fill in gaps of information.

Today Somamech and I. seeking out such tidbits, ran into a few HOLY CRAP moments that show we were on the right track, already had the working presentation and now see others have used some of my very own original content to present the same project, though they only have part of the picture.

As a result of being distracted by recent posts**and procrastination and personal issues, I have been neglecting following up on this. One of the key people involved in this is dead, but recently someone picked up that work. It is that recent work that lead to the first HOLY CRAP moment. It involves Remote Viewing, weird devices and Psychic abilities and used our representation and discoveries of Aristarchus Crater

So the threads will be locked as this will take me many days to put together. I will make a general comment thread once I get the basics out there. Please refrain from jumping the gun on this because a lot of work has already been done in the preliminary stages

A mysterious woman appeared from the shadows, she was a long black-haired lady with an evil aura ” My name is Kaguya, I’m the Ruler of the Eternal Night.”

Kaguya Princess of the Heavens - The Castle Beyond the Looking Glass

Now just why did Japan chose THAT name for their Moon Probe?

Well lets start with the 'footage' of that Moon Ship....

I want you all to study this footage closely. Two videos, one of Earth Set and one of Earth Rise, taken by KAGUYA SELENE in HDTV. These are Youtube clips and later on we can find the original HD versions, though last time I looked they were no longer available

Study these closely and let me know what you think. Tell me what is wrong with these films*
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2815.0

The discussion thread.
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2816.0

Moon Storms
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/07dec_moonstorms/
 

Sinny91

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Re: Convergence of Extraterrestrial Life

I can't recall if I've posted these here yet or not, I wanted to incorporate them into my UFO thread... but here is what some believe to be Alien life forms, critters, plasmoids. They can be found in space and our atmosphere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJpA8VmOHk

Captured on camera by Trevor James Constable, and George Van Tassle
1950's.
(at Giant Rock no less)









Comparison:

 

Ex-User (9086)

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Sinny, I moved some of your posts on ufo and whatnot to this thread, I think it's a perfect place for them. Starting a discussion abot ufo in a convergence thread only serves as a distraction from the scientific nature of that inquiry.

You are free to post in science and technology subforum and threads clearly oriented at science and link to your posts in here, also use spoilers, I put the above post in spoilers because it was inconvenient to manage the thread with this multitude of pictures and youtube embeds.

If you find yourself in the middle of composing a semi-lenghty presentation on secrets and less common reasoning, consider instead posting the main body of your argument in one of your already suitable threads and then linking to the source whilst trying to contribute to the overall direction the thread maker seems to have chosen (which you've done and I left it above the spoiler).
 

Sinny91

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Re: Convergence of Extraterrestrial Life

I can't recall if I've posted these here yet or not, I wanted to incorporate them into my UFO thread... but here is what some believe to be Alien life forms, critters, plasmoids. They can be found in space and our atmosphere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJpA8VmOHk

Captured on camera by Trevor James Constable, and George Van Tassle
1950's.
(at Giant Rock no less)









Comparison:


Thanks B.

So anyway, I hope anyone viewing this thread can appreciate how privileged we are to have the pictures above provided.

Although the pictures do not look like much, they are evidence of the physicality the UFO phenomena, when invisible to the naked eye, and the intelligences TJC was in contact with - that points very important, in so far I've not found many people talking about this connection.

David Sereda, who began work with TJC in 2002, explains the photographic process:

Trevor Constable studied numerous accounts with invisible detection
of aircraft on radar by the military. This led to his curiosity in detection of
the invisible. He started a photographic mission to take pictures in the
invisible wavelengths of light using a variety of photographic techniques.

Throughout the 1950s and 60s, Trevor Constable took 35 mm SLR
camera photographs in the invisible infra-red and Near Ultra Violet using
high-speed infrared film. He captured on film, what appears to be two
phenomena: UFO craft and what he believes are living, biological life
forms that live in an alternate dimension of our universe, overlapping our
own.

The UFOs that Trevor Constable captured in the invisible Near UV
and Infra-red are remarkably similar, if not identical, to the UFOs captured
on the NASA space shuttle video camera (also in the invisible Near UV and
Infra-red) throughout the 1990s. I got NASA scientist, Dr. Joseph Nuth III
to confirm that the Black & White video cameras on the shuttle are
equipped with special sensors that allow them to peruse the invisible infrared and near UV (all the way down to 135 nm).*

This is exactly where Trevor Constable was discovering invisible UFOs back in the 1950s and 60s. Could NASA scientists have taken notice of Trevor Constable’s work back in the 1950s and applied it to their scientific observations and search for extraterrestrial intelligence in the 1990s?

...............


George Van Tassel, an established trance channel of ETs was giving
lectures to thousands claiming to be in contact with beings aboard interdimensional craft appearing out at Giant Rock.

Constable wanted to test his theory that these craft appearing at Giant Rock were really there; however invisible. He shot pictures all around the area and as this photo (A-3) once again reveals, the UFOs and ETs are really here.

But where is “here” if they are invisible to the naked eye of most human beings? How could George Van Tassel see them while they remained invisible to almost everyone else? Van Tassel not only claimed he could see them and hear them, he got detailed information, which, when compared with my investigation on the physics of the NASA UFOs propulsion systems, was remarkably and precisely “identical” on very sophisticated points.
http://www.noufors.com/Documents/evidence.pdf
 

QuickTwist

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yay! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 

Sinny91

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Separate to the 'true' UAP (Unidentified Ariel Phenomena), the great majority of 'UFO' sighting can be traced back to misidentified terrestrial craft, natural phenomena, covert operations and psychological warfare.

Terrestrial misidentifications frequently include classified Airforce, Navy, NASA and 'private corp' craft, warheads, and similiar activities of international bodies.

****

The implementation of UFO's in Psychological warfare, and Jaques Valles discovery of Project Stork. (Excerpts from Phillip Coppens)

A missing Pentacle

The so-called “Pentacle Memorandum” convinced UFO researcher Jacques Vallee that the US government had been toying with the official UFO investigations, and that these were a front for something else… if not something more sinister.

In Forbidden Science (1992), Jacques Vallee, who was the inspiration for one of the main characters in Spielberg’s Close Encounters of the Third Kind, reports how in 1967 he found Allen Hynek’s UFO files to be in serious disarray. On Sunday, June 18, 1967, Vallee tried to restore some order in the files and “found a letter which is especially remarkable because of the new light it throws on the key period of the Robertson Panel and of Report #14”. This was the report that was also at the core of Leon Davidson’s enquiries and which made him conclude that the US government were using UFOs as part of a psychological warfare exercise.

The report Vallee found was stamped, in red ink: “SECRET – Security Information” and dated January 9, 1953.

.......

To quote Vallee: “what these people were recommending was nothing less than a carefully calibrated and monitored simulation of an entire UFO wave.”

http://www.philipcoppens.com/pentacle.html

The Pentacle Memo (1953) is currently the earliest record we have which demonstrates the implementation of UFO Phenomena specifically in modern western psy warfare, however, some researchers are exploring the possibility that these operations began some years prior.
 

Sinny91

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Yes, it's a common belief in some circles that bearing witness to the paranormal and UFO phenomena is suggestive of interactions with alternate frequencies/dimensions/planes of consciousness.

Jung initially attributed these phenomena to the collective unconscious manifesting it's self in the minds eye of the individual.

However, over a course of time he too had to concede that certain aspects of the phenomena were manifesting them selves physically in our 3rd dimension. Consequently, these phenomena where outside of his field of expertise, and so he stopped publishing on the matter.

At least that's one narrative I've been informed of, another is slightly more conspiratorial; that Jung worked closely with Allen Dulles and helped to spread misinformation.

(Lots of .MIL UFO's during the end of WW2).

However Jungs work on the collective unconscious is relevant to the UFO and fringe phenomena.. we're just still not entirely sure how.

This is why my biggest regret is not doing something to check the physical reality of the UFO I have had the closest encounter with.

It was close enough for me to do something to determine this.

Alas, I was 18 then, and none of this occupied my mind at all.

If it was the collective unconscious surely *I sought it*...
All I know is, that 18 year old me wasn't seeking anything.
(Enter Gnostic thought on the notion of the 'higher self', and karmic tradition etc. )

Alternatively, if it's not the collective unconscious.. a foreign intelligence sought me out... And another few millions of us... We are in a special club.

Keep this here.
 

Stagename

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a) Is there any existing evidence at all that any UFO has ever been controlled by an alien lifeform?

b) Is there any existing evidence at all that any extra terrestrial lifeform, intelligent or otherwise, has ever been to earth?
 

Sinny91

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a) Is there any existing evidence at all that any UFO has ever been controlled by an alien lifeform?

First of all we would need to define 'alien' , if you mean by way of the ETH, then no. Not in the public sphere - at least as far as my knowledge goes.

b) Is there any existing evidence at all that any extra terrestrial lifeform, intelligent or otherwise, has ever been to earth?

Yes. See my above posts on the 'critters' which NASA film frequently which can be likened to the entities pictured by TJC.
In fact, I need to double check what info I've posted , if at all , on the critters.

Then of course there is always the Fortean outlook, the paranormal, spiritism, the theosophical, ancient astronaut theory etc. There is abundant evidence to at least state that alternative intelligences have interacted with us. I also assume that some alternative intelligence created us, as suggested by our ancestors in historic religious and gnostic texts.
 

Stagename

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a) Then there is no good reason to actually believe that aliens control UFOs. In fact, any other explanation which can explain similar sightings is more plausible. Such as human technology, natural phenomenon, mental illusions, etc.

b) The critter video is hardly evidence of anything unless it has at least been verified by NASA. It is close to impossible to make anything out of that poor quality, and one can certainly not be convinced that the video is from outer space just on face value. That has to be verified. But since the video is completely out of focus, whatever particles were captured are not easy to identify, and neither is their size. It is not evidence of extraterrestrial life forms. It is just evidence of an out of focus video of poor quality. If, however, one were to gather samples of this, that would be another case entirely. But I wouldn't call a bad quality video evidence of anything, as nothing on the video can be identified, and can certainly not be identified as something being alive, or even organic.

I admit that I don't know much about the ancient astronaut theory, but I imagine that the type of "evidence" in support of such a thing is something like ancient drawings on temple walls which has been interpreted to fit the theory. However, even if I make a drawing right now of an alien, that would not be evidence that an alien was actually here. And if someone made a similar drawing 2000 years ago, or more, the same conclusion applies.
 

Sinny91

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a) Then there is no good reason to actually believe that aliens control UFOs. In fact, any other explanation which can explain similar sightings is more plausible. Such as human technology, natural phenomenon, mental illusions, etc.

Yes....

I see that you're attempting to dispute a percieved stand point of mine.
My stand point is not that 'ETs' are flying saucers.
Re read the thread.

b) The critter video is hardly evidence of anything unless it has at least been verified by NASA.

What do you mean 'verified', it's legitimate footage, and I've personally partaken in Q & A with NASA spokes man Jim Oberg in regards to this footage.

it is close to impossible to make anything out of that poor quality, and one can certainly not be convinced that the video is from outer space just on face value. That has to be verified. But since the video is completely out of focus, whatever particles were captured are not easy to identify, and neither is their size. It is not evidence of extraterrestrial life forms. It is just evidence of an out of focus video of poor quality. If, however, one were to gather samples of this, that would be another case entirely. But I wouldn't call a bad quality video evidence of anything, as nothing on the video can be identified, and can certainly not be identified as something being alive, or even organic.

I admit that I don't know much about the ancient astronaut theory, but I imagine that the type of "evidence" in support of such a thing is something like ancient drawings on temple walls which has been interpreted to fit the theory. However, even if I make a drawing right now of an alien, that would not be evidence that an alien was actually here. And if someone made a similar drawing 2000 years ago, or more, the same conclusion applies.

Battery is going to die. Back shortly.
 

Stagename

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Yes....

I see that you're attempting to dispute a percieved stand point of mine.
My stand point is not that 'ETs' are flying saucers.
Re read the thread.
Alright, sorry about that. But then we at least agree that there is currently no good reason to believe such a thing.

What do you mean 'verified', it's legitimate footage, and I've personally partaken in Q & A with NASA spokes man Jim Oberg in regards to this footage.
I mean that NASA should verify that the tape is produced by them, and that it is footage from space. If they already have done that, then that's a step in the right direction. However, the footage is still of poor quality, and to assert that this is footage of alien lifeforms (which is what you do when you claim that this is evidence for alien life forms) is merely speculation.

You probably know a lot more about this than I do, but isn't it reasonable to assume that if this footage convinced anyone of importance that aliens exist in our atmosphere back in '96, then we would have had samples, or at least better footage or other evidence, of these aliens 20 years later? But as the video rather seems to have been deemed "not of any importance" by NASA, themselves, shouldn't it also be regarded as such by anyone else who knows less about space and possibilities for alien lifeforms than NASA? Or at least anyone who knows that no matter what the video shows, it is of no use in terms of evidence for alien life forms, because of it's poor quality.

The discovery of alien life forms would be a huge scientific milestone. It simply requires more than a vague hint from bad "evidence". As these signs does not seem to have provoked further investigation over the past 20 years, or at least if any investigation was done, it apparently yielded no significant results, the video is no better evidence of anything concrete, than is any random eye witness.
 

Sinny91

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Alright, sorry about that. But then we at least agree that there is currently no good reason to believe such a thing.


I mean that NASA should verify that the tape is produced by them, and that it is footage from space.

It's the STS - 75 footage 'The Tether Incident', you should look it up, its a famous and pivotal case.

If they already have done that, then that's a step in the right direction. However, the footage is still of poor quality, and to assert that this is footage of alien lifeforms (which is what you do when you claim that this is evidence for alien life forms) is merely speculation.

Just because you lack the ability to discern, doesn't mean everyome does.I'll be returning to post about the 'Critters' shortly.

You probably know a lot more about this than I do, but isn't it reasonable to assume that if this footage convinced anyone of importance that aliens exist in our atmosphere back in '96, then we would have had samples, or at least better footage or other evidence, of these aliens 20 years later?

It's a secret, we Need Another Space Agency.

But as the video rather seems to have been deemed "not of any importance" by NASA, themselves, shouldn't it also be regarded as such by anyone else who knows less about space and possibilities for alien lifeforms than NASA?

I'll make up my own mind, I don't trust the Nazi affiliated, occult based agency.

Or at least anyone who knows that no matter what the video shows, it is of no use in terms of evidence for alien life forms, because of it's poor quality.

It's actually astounding quality, all things considered. I suggest you look up the details.

The discovery of alien life forms would be a huge scientific milestone.

Or a rediscovery of suppressed truths.

It simply requires more than a vague hint from bad "evidence".

You are really not an authority here.

As these signs does not seem to have provoked further investigation over the past 20 years, or at least if any investigation was done

This is misinformed.

It apparently yielded no significant results

This is also misinformed and illogical.
 

Stagename

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It's the STS - 75 footage 'The Tether Incident', you should look it up, its a famous and pivotal case.
Yes, it is famous. It is still fairly poor quality video. I think it's interesting that most evidence of aliens or other mysterious UFOs are typically found in poor quality footage. It almost seems as if people see what they want to see whenever there is room for it. Where is the HD footage of any extra terrestrial life form? Why did the UFO footage of civilians suddenly seem to stop once almost every person on earth got their own camera always with them on their phone? The better and more available the video equipment, the easier it is to separate garbage from evidence, and the less evidence is found - even considering the amount of cameras around these days. Isn't that interesting?

Just because you lack the ability to discern, doesn't mean everyome does.I'll be returning to post about the 'Critters' shortly.
I think you meant the ability to "believe". Incidentally, I'm glad you put this thread in Faith & Spirituality forum, and not "Science". However, a belief from evidence requires convincing evidence. Convincing evidence must be verifiable. If you find bad evidence to be personally convincing, then it becomes a matter of faith. And as we already know: when it comes to faith, the evidence doesn't matter, as evident by your own statements in your last reply.

It's a secret, we Need Another Space Agency.
...
I'll make up my own mind, I don't trust the Nazi affiliated, occult based agency.
Why do you selectively trust what comes out from NASA while trying to discredit them? How do you know what's real? How do you know that those bastards didn't just put that shitty quality footage out just to mess with people like yourself? In order to build interest, motivation and desire to investigate space? Space research needs PR too. It's true.

Of course, I'm not saying that this is the case. But I think it's interesting how you only pick whatever fits in your own theory, and discard the rest. It all comes from NASA - the evil "nazi" corporation that is only out to trick you.

It's actually astounding quality, all things considered. I suggest you look up the details.
All things considered? Could you be more specific? No matter the conditions of filming, the result is still a poor quality video. It really doesn't matter if the conditions were harsh and problematic. It only matters what they are left with. And it is a bad quality video of what most likely is out of focus debris.

You are really not an authority here.
That's true. I'm merely a critic, pointing out the obvious. The footage is shit. It is impossible to determine exactly what was videotaped because it is all out of focus. Therefore, it is also impossible to determine that some of the anomalies in the video are actual alien life forms.

This is misinformed.
This is also misinformed and illogical.
It might be misinformed. But you didn't correct me with any new information. If you have any - with sources, of course, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise, all you say is speculation on bad, or no evidence.
 

Tannhauser

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The tether incident – a bunch of dust in front of a lens. Now the question is: if the phenomenon is indistinguishable from dust in front of a lens –what reason do we have to instead conclude that they are aliens?
 

Sinny91

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The tether incident – a bunch of dust in front of a lens. Now the question is: if the phenomenon is indistinguishable from dust in front of a lens –what reason do we have to instead conclude that they are aliens?

The Secrets of the Universe*
Amoeba Like Life Forms*
"Critters"Critters and UFO's*
STS 75*
...Youtube Link

Video Clip*
STS-75 'The Tether Incident' Feb 1996

Editors Note: This video has been removed several times by Youtube. Currently it is available again. If it does get removed again, email me and I can send you a copy as we have it on disk now. Contact me at*webmaster

The above video, or at least the second portion, has been used by UFO buffs as a classic video of evidence of the existence of UFO's in space, and that NASA is aware of it. In this video they are described as "dust and debris" by the astronauts and seem no cause for concern.

It is interesting to note that most UFO theorists don't talk about the implications of the tether experiments in relation to free energy, as this is a proof positive of NASA and others experimenting with just exactly that, and as the above incidence proves, they were caught completely off guard with the 2 to 10 times higher than anticipated power flux.

Much work has already been done by professional researchers about the subject of what these UFOs in the NASA footage might be. It also seems very clear that NASA is both aware of them and not worried about them, taking a policy of public denial and just simply ignoring their presence.

From examing the evidence I feel that these UFO's are in fact an "undiscovered", naturally existing life forms similar to an amoeba, only much larger. They exist in a spectrum not visible to the naked eye under normal conditions. They appear to be total harmless, feeding off electrical {or other} energy. If you look closely at the footage you will observe them increasing in brightness near electrical storms. With this in mind it is not in the least surprizing to find them swarming around the electrodynamic tether which is NASA's attempt to harness the very energy that they feed on.

As none of the "objects" make any threatening moves, it is highly likely that they do not even know we exist, and are simply drawn by the energy generated {collected} by the satelite and tether. One interesting observation is that the tether in the footage is glowing and much wider than it should be, a fact that is stated by the NASA mission control. It is most likely still gathering that energy that caused the overload and broke the connection to the shuttle.

The fact that they become visible in Infrared footage is not at all surprizing, because if they are indeed life forms, it would only be natural that they would give off some infrared radiation in whatever life processes sustain them, the same way all life on Earth does. It is my contention that these are naturally occuring lifeforms that have always been here and indeed inhabit all of space.

No claim is made that these account for all observed UFO sightings, but I assume it does relate to a great many. There is also no way at this time to acertain whether they are sentient or even inteligent, as they seem to go about there business without caring about us, though there is evidence that they are at least curious.*
Continued at link
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/02files/Critters.html

Additional:
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/49ufo_files/03files2/Shuttle_Mission_STS_75.html

Context: STS 80 The Smoking Gun
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=419.0

I need to liase with Ron Schmidt about my hypothesised relation between these critters and the energy forms captured by Van Tassel and Constable (which did display behaviors of superior intelligence).

Discussion with Jim Oberg on STS 80, and later on STS 75 and other similiar events. Large thread, but you won't see a discussion like this anywhere else.
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8254.0

I don't accept NASA'S theory of dust particles or ice crystals.
(You can make up your own mind in this regard, but ill be continuing along the lines of my reasoning)

STS 75 - David Sereda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-F_wfFPdMw

Skip to 24 mins for STS 80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta1P5Q0UnBQ
 

Sinny91

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Yes, it is famous. It is still fairly poor quality video. I think it's interesting that most evidence of aliens or other mysterious UFOs are typically found in poor quality footage.

Yes their elusiveness has always been an enigma. However, these particular 'UFO's' can be discovered by anyone with the correct equipment. Wilhelm Reich was capable of this in the 50's. I will concede that NASA'S cameras could be a lot better, I suspect they are as they are because NASA is supposedly a public body, and they keep much advanced technology out of the public eye. But all things considered the footage we've got has been illuminating enough..

It almost seems as if people see what they want to see whenever there is room for it.

Explain away the physics of this 'space dust' then.

Where is the HD footage of any extra terrestrial life form? Why did the UFO footage of civilians suddenly seem to stop once almost every person on earth got their own camera always with them on their phone?

These 'critters' are unlikely to be photographed on people's phones, they are in the near UV spectrum. As for other types of UFO's , there is photo evidence in abundance, you have just not been looking for it.

The better and more available the video equipment, the easier it is to separate garbage from evidence, and the less evidence is found -


even considering the amount of cameras around these days. Isn't that interesting?

No because your assertion is incorrect. What are you basing this on?
But I can see beyond what you have conveyed. If your have in mind the difference between UFO'S in culture today in comparison to the 1950's era.. that's a whole other discussion, which I will be addressing in due course.

I'm glad you put this thread in Faith & Spirituality forum, and not "Science".

There's method in my madness.

However, a belief from evidence requires convincing evidence.

Yes it does, and I've seen and bore witness to convincing evidence.

Convincing evidence must be verifiable.

I've had a close encounter with a UFO, you can not verify this, I can.
It's subjective.

If you find bad evidence to be personally convincing, then it becomes a matter of faith. And as we already know: when it comes to faith, the evidence doesn't matter, as evident by your own statements in your last reply.

Yea whatever, the ultimate ignorance is dismissing something you know nothing about. Who's the fool?


Why do you selectively trust what comes out from NASA while trying to discredit them?

I believe their footage, not their statements. Simple really.

How do you know what's real? How do you know that those bastards didn't just put that shitty quality footage out just to mess with people like yourself?

Anythings possible, but I think that's unlikely.

In order to build interest, motivation and desire to investigate space? Space research needs PR too. It's true.

You're preaching to the preacher.

Of course, I'm not saying that this is the case. But I think it's interesting how you only pick whatever fits in your own theory, and discard the rest.

What have I discarded? NASA's explanation? What's the big deal?

It all comes from NASA - the evil "nazi" corporation that is only out to trick you

What all comes down to NASA? You are putting words in my mouth. NASA has an historic entanglement with 'former' Nazis and Occultists, do you dispute this? If not, what are you getting at?


All things considered? Could you be more specific? No matter the conditions of filming, the result is still a poor quality video.

It is what it is, I hardly see why moaning about what it is not is relevant.

It really doesn't matter if the conditions were harsh and problematic. It only matters what they are left with. And it is a bad quality video of what most likely is out of focus debris.

Lol, I think you have unreasonable expectations, and you're full of conjecture yourself.

That's true. I'm merely a critic, pointing out the obvious.

What's obvious? That those UFO's swarming the Tether are dust particles? Which all move at different velocities, in different directions, seem to move intelligently, and pulsate like like forms? Not to mention the scale. Watch the videos I linked.

Yea okay, if this was a case of the 'obvious' the discourse which I offered in my previous post wouldn't be happening amongst those with credentials.

The footage is shit.

No, your perspective and understanding is.

It is impossible to determine exactly what was videotaped because it is all out of focus.

Well, you're not one of the experts so forgive me for not being swayed.

It might be misinformed. But you didn't correct me with any new information. If you have any - with sources, of course, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise, all you say is speculation on bad, or no evidence.

Your dismissals based on nought expertise are 'bad'.
 

Intolerable

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I suppose it could be argued that we are of the stars ourselves at the atomic level. Given some injection at some point in time but the evolutionary record seems to defy the notion of intelligent design.

That coupled with the fact that we've not once recorded dialogue with an alien lifeform suggests to me that we are more accident than design by a lot.

On the spiritual / psychological front: Sometimes things aren't so complicated. We want for them to be more complicated, more dramatic than they really are. Think of how much we dramatize of the modern day. From molehill to mountain our minds are always racing to create the next amazing moment.

Why is that so? I suppose the desire for markers. It is a life easier lived with dramatic moments than a life devoid of them.
 

Stagename

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Yes their elusiveness has always been an enigma. However, these particular 'UFO's' can be discovered by anyone with the correct equipment. Wilhelm Reich was capable of this in the 50's. I will concede that NASA'S cameras could be a lot better, I suspect they are as they are because NASA is supposedly a public body, and they keep much advanced technology out of the public eye. But all things considered the footage we've got has been illuminating enough..
Again you refer to "all things considered". What things? And how does these things make bad evidence good because of poor conditions? The result is still a poor quality video no matter the reason. That is a fact. The result is the only thing that matters. And it cannot be concluded that a bunch of out of focus garbage is evidence for any kind of life form. That is just plain silly.

Yes it does, and I've seen and bore witness to convincing evidence.

I've had a close encounter with a UFO, you can not verify this, I can.
It's subjective.
Which makes you an eye witness, which is an unreliable and unconvincing type of evidence for anything. I understand that you are convinced because of your own subjective experience, but your story is not the type of evidence I'm asking for. I am not asking for evidence which is based on personal experiences and storytelling that is only backedup by your own conviction. I need more substance than that in order to be convinced. Which is quite reasonable.

Yea whatever, the ultimate ignorance is dismissing something you know nothing about. Who's the fool?
I am dismissing the evidence which has been presented to me because I can see that the video is of poor quality, and not convincing. Your personal experience and conviction that you know the truth does not alter the quality of the evidence you have presented.

I believe their footage, not their statements. Simple really.
Because?

Because it is convenient for your theory. Not because the video is convincing in any way. The fact that it is of poor quality is the exact thing you rely on to claim that it is evidence for extra terrestrial life. You need the room for interpretation in order to be able to come to your conclusion. Had the video contained clear footage, there would be less room for speculation, and less ground for you to base your theory. Or of course, everyone would accept the evidence for extra terrestrial life because there would be no room for discussion of what was taped. However, there is lots of room for discussion because the video is of poor quality, thus, not convincing.

Anythings possible, but I think that's unlikely.
Because?
It is actually not unlikely at all:
- incredible amounts of "evidence" for alien life has been debunked as fake or misunderstandings. NO evidence for alien life has ever been verified. Therefore, there is a reasonable expectation that this video also is misinterpreted to mean something it really does not mean at all.
- Human businesses need financing. Therefore, NASA has an incentive to lie in order to create interest an hype around their business. They need money and attention. The good ol' days of the 60's are gone.

What all comes down to NASA? You are putting words in my mouth. NASA has an historic entanglement with 'former' Nazis and Occultists, do you dispute this? If not, what are you getting at?
I don't dispute it or agree with it. I am pointing out that you are discrediting the source of your "evidence", while arguing that it is credible. That is kinda ridiculous.. Why trust anything that comes from them? Probably because the video fits your own theory. Therefore it's good. Their explanation does not fit your theory. Therefore it's bad. Isn't that right?

It is what it is, I hardly see why moaning about what it is not is relevant.
Are you serious? You claim that the video is good evidence because of "all things considered", then refuse to explain what you are talking about, deeming those things "not relevant". This is yet another contradiction in your reasoning.

Lol, I think you have unreasonable expectations, and you're full of conjecture yourself.
I expect evidence to be convincing before it is used to build a conclusion. The tape is of poor quality, and not convincing.

What's obvious? That those UFO's swarming the Tether are dust particles? Which all move at different velocities, in different directions, seem to move intelligently, and pulsate like like forms? Not to mention the scale. Watch the videos I linked.
I don't see any of the "critters" changing directions ONCE. Their change in velocity could simply be explained by them moving away from, or towards the camera. Their pulsation could be explained by them being spinning ice crystals which are "blinking" in the sunlight, and appears to pulsate as the video is OUT OF FOCUS!

Yea okay, if this was a case of the 'obvious' the discourse which I offered in my previous post wouldn't be happening amongst those with credentials.
Discourse is largely fueled by media. And you are appealing to authority while admitting that there is a discourse going on, not a conclusion that has been drawn. If experts are discussing this, then what makes you draw the conclusion before the experts agree about anything? Your conclusion is premature, based on poor evidence, and fallacious reasoning.
 

Sinny91

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All due respect but I don't care to convince you, I'm in a very special place in regards to this subject matter, I have zero interest in convincing people.
I find you ignorant in several regards, so I won't be 'debating' with you in order to convince you.
Ask me questions by all means, but I will not be held to ransom.
 

Sinny91

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Again you refer to "all things considered". What things?

An endless probability of things, if you must know.

and how does these things make bad evidence good because of poor conditions?

Okay, so you are stating that this is 'bad' evidence.
I disagree, and there are others who disagree who have found this evidence illuminating.

The result is still a poor quality video no matter the reason.

You are comparing footage taken from a space station, filmed in the near UV spectrum, recorded at a distance, (details and specifications are discussed in depth in the discussions I linked), and comparing to unspecified HD footage... No doubt similiar to the TV you must sit in front of everyday. I think you lack the expertise to evaluate how 'useful' this footage is.

The result is the only thing that matters.

Certainly does, so will you be proceeding to educate us on the aforementioned physics?

And it cannot be concluded that a bunch of out of focus garbage is evidence for any kind of life form.

Your argument thus far only consists of one point, which I have addressed.

Which makes you an eye witness, which is an unreliable and unconvincing type of evidence for anything.

But it does demonstrate the complexity of the issue.

I understand that you are convinced because of your own subjective experience,

No, you have very little understanding. The UFO which I encountered is nothing like those you are trying to debunk.

but your story is not the type of evidence I'm asking for.

I thought you were attempting to debunk some of the evidence I have provided. If you want more evidence, there is an abundance in the links, my own compilations would be similiar, I see no reason why I should transfer them over here.

I am not asking for evidence which is based on personal experiences and storytelling that is only backedup by your own conviction. I need more substance than that in order to be convinced. Which is quite reasonable

Then follow the links, and do your own research. I find it ridiculous that so called critical thinkers would dismiss a theory based on an indivuals inability to fully convey their argument. If you really sought truth, you would transcend the floundering indivual and go on your own path of discovery.

I am dismissing the evidence which has been presented to me because I can see that the video is of poor quality, and not convincing.

Yes, that has been very much clarified.

Your personal experience and conviction that you know the truth does not alter the quality of the evidence you have presented.

I did not infer that it did.

Because it is convenient for your theory.

Partially true, but there are a myriad of other reasons such as the fact that there is Never A Straight Answer with NASA. You are making ill informed assumptions, and apparently I'm cursed to be hounded by them.

Not because the video is convincing in any way.

I wonder if you have any other points..

The fact that it is of poor quality is the exact thing you rely on to claim that it is evidence for extra terrestrial life.

Apparently not.. and it's still up for debate - afaik - whether these 'critters' are local to 'terrestrial space' or are 'extra - terrestrial' in the broader sense of the term.

You need the room for interpretation in order to be able to come to your conclusion.

Granted. Any academic would tell you the same. Hasn't stopped academics from dipping their toes in the water tho.

Had the video contained clear footage, there would be less room for speculation

You don't say.

and less ground for you to base your theory. Or of course, everyone would accept the evidence for extra terrestrial life because there would be no room for discussion of what was taped. However, there is lots of room for discussion because the video is of poor quality, thus, not convincing.

Bah humbug.

Because?
It is actually not unlikely at all:
- incredible amounts of "evidence" for alien life has been debunked as fake or misunderstandings.

And so..?

No evidence for alien life has ever been verified.

We don't know that as an absolute, also I'm sure that 'they' finally disclosed that they had discovered microbial life. I'll dig it up shortly.

Terefore, there is a reasonable expectation that this video also is misinterpreted to mean something it really does not mean at all.

That's a logical fallacy, it should be judged on its individual merit.

Human businesses need financing. Therefore, NASA has an incentive to lie in order to create interest an hype around their business. They need money and attention. The good ol' days of the 60's are gone.

Are you actually stating this is more likely to be a NASA hoax?
Haha, and they call me the crazy.

I don't dispute it or agree with it. I am pointing out that you are discrediting the source of your "evidence"

How so?

while arguing that it is credible. That is kinda ridiculous.. Why trust anything that comes from them?

It seems that you are more paranoid than I, that takes some doing, hats off to you.

Probably because the video fits your own theory. Therefore it's good. Their explanation does not fit your theory. Therefore it's bad. Isn't that right?

Your reasoning is flawed, and your argument weak.

Are you serious?

Yes are you?

You claim that the video is good evidence because of "all things considered", then refuse to explain what you are talking about, deeming those things "not relevant".

You are arguing that the footage is too poor to be useful. I am arguing that what is does contain is actually useful, apparently you see nothing of importance. I do.. you explain the strange behaviour of the 'space dust', and you might start swaying me.

I expect evidence to be convincing before it is used to build a conclusion. The tape is of poor quality, and not convincing.

Are you stuck on repeat?

I don't see any of the "critters" changing directions ONCE. Their change in velocity could simply be explained by them moving away from, or towards the camera

You fail to address how individual particles of space dust can be seen moving in a manner of all directions when they should trapped in the same gravitational (and other constant) fields. You have also failed to address why these critters can be seen passing behind the Tether and not in front of it, which pretty fucks up all of your counter arguments.

Their pulsation could be explained by them being spinning ice crystals which are "blinking" in the sunlight, and appears to pulsate as the video is OUT OF FOCUS!

Yup, that's the sort crap NASA comes out with.

Discourse is largely fueled by media. And you are appealing to authority while admitting that there is a discourse going on, not a conclusion that has been drawn. If experts are discussing this, then what makes you draw the conclusion before the experts agree about anything?

This is frivolous. I will make up my own mind, as should you.

Your conclusion is premature, based on poor evidence, and fallacious reasoning.

Precisely what I was going to say to you.
 

Stagename

Cynic
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You are comparing footage taken from a space station, in the near UV spectrum, recording at a distance, (details and specifications are discussed in depth in the discussions I linked), and comparing to unspecified HD footage...
No doubt similiar to the TV you must sit in front of everyday.
I think you lack the expertise to evaluate how 'useful' this footage is.
I almost can't believe that you don't get the point. The only thing that matters in determining how visible whatever is captured on a video is, is the result only. I realize that they didn't have superb conditions, optimal distance, or cutting-edge equipment. This is also reflected in the video, itself, as the video is of poor quality. It doesn't help the evidence that it was made under poor conditions and with poor equipment. It really amazes me that you seem to think the opposite.

If you get a crappy picture of what is claimed to be bigfoot, and you see that the picture is of such bad quality that you can merely see a dark spot on the paper, then the picture does not become better evidence for bigfoot when it is stated that the picture is an enhanced image that was taken from afar with a crappy camera in worse conditions. The picture is still shit. Regardless of the reason why. As the picture is shit, its value as evidence for whatever is claimed, is severely impaired - regardless of whether it is an actual picture of bigfoot or not. Because it cannot be determined from the picture, as it is of poor quality.

The same applies to the critter-video.

Your argument thus far only consists of one point, which I have addressed.
Yes, you have basically said that the video is not of bad quality because it was taped under bad conditions with poor equipment. This does not make sense. Bad conditions and poor recording equipment does produce bad quality video, as evident by the video in question.

But it does demonstrate the complexity of the issue.
Haha, and they call me the crazy.
There certainly is some complexity here. And your subjective experience should rightfully be met with skepticism by anyone you describe it to.

That's a logical fallacy, it should be judged on its individual merit.
I have explained many times why the result of the actual video is the only thing that matters for determining its quality. This is to evaluate the evidence as it stands on its own.

However, if you have missed the bullseye 1000 times in a row (or way more, which assumingly is the case with debunked evidence for alien life), then it is reasonable to expect that you will also miss on your next try, based on prior events. It is not a known fact that you will miss on your next try. But it is still a reasonable expectation. That was the point I just made. Which you seem to have missed...

Are you actually stating this is more likely to be a NASA hoax?
I am being open minded, and looking at the possibilities. However, yes, it is more likely that it is a hoax than it actually being video of alien life, given that the video is not verified as having captured alien life, and there are no other verified evidence for alien life available. This does not mean that it is a hoax. There are other possibilities too. But it is still less likely to be video of alien life.

As illustrated, NASA does have an incentive to produce false or misleading information, which you do agree with, as you claim their explanation accompanying the video to be false. I am not stating that NASA has, in fact, published the video with the intention to mislead in order to support their own agenda. I am merely stating that this could be a possibility, and they do have an incentive to do such a thing. Assuming that the video is, in fact, real (which I do believe that it is), then it is quite perfect to release it to the public. It did get attention, and it did spark curiosity about space research - which is good PR for NASA.

It seems that you are more paranoid than I, that takes some doing, hats off to you.
No, I am actually trying to put myself in your position. How do you separate their bullshit from their genuine material? You have more or less stated that NASA is not trustworthy. How do you verify that some of what they say can be trusted, but other things cannot?

You fail to address how individual particles of space dust can be seen moving in a manner of all directions when they should trapped in the same gravitational (and other constant) fields. You have also failed to address why these critters can be seen passing behind the Tether and not in front of it, which pretty fucks up all of your counter arguments.
I don't see any individual particle moving in any other direction than one direction only. This does not indicate intelligence. None of the particles appear to stop or change direction.

Yes, it appears that they pass behind the tether. That may very well be the case. I don't see any problem with that at all. You have probably also noticed how the Tether seems to be unproportionally thick. This is because the video is out of focus. When for example an ice crystal which is lit up by the sun is captured on an out of focus camera lens, the ice crystal will appear larger. If it is actually behind the thether, then it is reasonable to assume that it will be out of focus to a different degree than the tether. You can also see that some particles appear to be much larger than others, which also indicate different distances from the camera, and resulting differences in the focus on the particles.

The footage is captured with infra red camera. The camera is therefore highly sensitive to light, which can explain how for example an ice crystal reflecting sunlight could be very easily noticed by the camera.

You have probably seen this video before, but here is an example of a similar occurrence which, at least in this case, is clearly a product of an out of focus light source. Is this also evidence for flying saucers in the sky which also are alive? I beg to differ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYLHqv-foMk&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b

Granted, this is not identical to what was captured with the infrared camera lens. But it is arguably similar. And it shows how the apparent shape of a light source seems to change as the light source goes out of focus.
 

Tannhauser

angry insecure male
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In the end, the video corroborates both theories: it is both proof of dust in front of a camera – and aliens who look like dust in front of a camera. One can either believe in one of them or remain agnostic to the whole thing.

(the fact that the evidence for a hypothesis is weak does not mean it is evidence against the hypothesis)
 
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