Addiction/Alcoholism, AA/NA and the xNTP

[vlassicisgood]

My name is -x- and I'm an alcoholic. In recovery. Any other INTP's struggle with alcohol and or drug addiction? General discussion, curious about the general outlook on it from people that process things in a similar way to me supposedly. Any thoughts on AA, NA or 12 step programs? Anyone currently in addiction and unable to stop said addiction... what causes addiction for this personality type generally? Etc, etc, etc, maybe there's already another thread like this but thought it'd make an interesting topic.

 

[Jennywocky]

I can't call myself an alcoholic per se -- I've had a few short periods in my life where I drank a lot, but it didn't really hold a strong grip on me and I don't drink that much now as it doesn't sit well physically with me nowadays.

(My dad did die from alcoholism, when his body finally gave out; and he spent some time in jail because of it, + attended some twelve-steps. He wasn't religious and he hated it and bailed, he thought them all condescending... but look where it got him. My uncle on the other hand is still alive mainly BECAUSE of twelve-step programs, go figure. My dad was an ESTP, though. My uncle is not an INTP.)

it's also hard to make a blanket statement because people can be alchoholics for different reasons.

Anyway, twelve-steps could be effective if you are consistent about remaining accountable to the group, I think. Some people look outside themselves for a locus of control by nature, so if you need that level of accountability, sure. But there's also something with INTPs that is very independent and not liking the pressure of a group to stay on track; the problem is that, if you isolate yourself and have no one checking in, it's very easy to 'go with the flow' and just do what you want. You might also be in the cycle of, "Well, I just had a drink, I blew it, i might as well just drink as much as I want for the rest of the day."

And maybe that's the issue with the 12-steps, that you have to either not have a drink or you end up wrecking yourself. Everything is binary, it's either/or. Maybe that's true for some, I don't know. Maybe some others can afford to have a drink, then stop... but the issue is that you have to draw a hard line for yourself and be able to to do that, or you'll wreck the train just by having one. But now you're also trapped in a binary that sets you up with a very difficult goal and doesn't allow degrees of success, does it?

Getting into the emotional aspects: I think INTPs can be very passive in regards to external life, some of us aren't even sure of what we want (although we know what we don't like when we experience it), and this can lead to addictive behavior as a way to avoid the feelings of futility and aimlessness; it can create depression and self-condemnation and feelings of being a failure, again leading to self-medication. You might not be able to avoid being sucked into a void that you're always balanced on the edge of, but if you fill the void with something else, it stops being a void; so if you have a goal for your life (a project, a relationship, something else to focus on) it might be able to distract from the desire to drink. [Ever read about the Rat Park studies a few decades back? Basic conclusion: Happy rats don't do opiates, unhappy rats can't stop.]

The addictions could be operating as a way to avoid legitimate suffering, as Jung said about neurosis, or as a way to avoid pain, or maybe even to avoid the need to make decisions in ambiguous circumstances (which can be painful for someone who thinks deeply). For the hours you're drunk, you don't have to face the existential void.

Just thinking out loud. Maybe something resonates?

 

[Brontosaurie]

it would be much better if at least people could be addicted to real drugs instead.

law forces people to take poison. fucking awful.

 

[vlassicisgood]

I mean for me personally, I've gone to AA for some time, yes I "sort of" work the steps but it's more the fellowship of the group that draws me in there. Support network of people that used to have a major problem and then stopped. The 12 steps.... eh. I wasn't so much looking for blanket statements as... more personal statements, with those comfortable with sharing them. Thought maybe some patterns would emerge.

 

[Jennywocky]

I think fellowship can be very important for most people. Some people find that in church, some go to the 12-step, some have a tight network of friends. I think it's a positive thing to foster relationships with people who can encourage you and help you stick to your guns. But yeah, those are all general opinions.

I haven't attended a 12-step myself. My ex-aunt tried to get me on Alateen when I was in college (as part of dealing with my dad), but she was really obnoxious with everyone in the family about it... hence, her becoming my ex-aunt.

 

[vlassicisgood]

Some 12 step people can be quite obnoxious indeed haha. I call them.... can we curse here? Big Book B******.

 

[Jennywocky]

^^ lol, yeah.

I mean... it's to be expected that you'll find some people like that in a group like that. (Just like you'll find some obnoxious/controlling folks involved in religion or similar groups where there is a potential dogma involved.) But it's also too easy to use that as an excuse to not try to find some benefits in a group as well.

So did you have any particular struggles with some of the steps?

 

[vlassicisgood]

Oh yeah the entirety of them in general haha. They're like little one-liners that just dig deeper and deeper. Brainwashing? Eh maybe, maybe some people like myself need to be brainwashed in some ways.

 

[Jennywocky]

Programming's not necessarily a bad thing, although it takes a bad rap. We use repetition for a host of things in life, whether physical activities (like sports) or bodies of knowledge (learning and retaining information), etc. You're basically repeating something over and over in order make it more instinctual/ingrained -- there's a particular goal in mind, that you have decided ahead of time. Getting the behavior ingrained presents less opportunity for you to deviate from a path you've already selected for yourself. You can bypass conscious decision-making and move straight to a response, since volition was exercised early.

So "ingraining behavior" with something you've preevaluated and decided will help you accomplish your goals seems to make sense, and you've already invested some thought in it. It's when you just let someone else imprint on you obliviously or because you don't want to think for yourself that seems horrible to me.

 

[vlassicisgood]

Might've helped my brother and sister to go to alateen.

 

[Yellow]

I had to recommend[require] AA/NA attendance (as was my employer's policy), when I worked with dual-diagnosis clients (in active addiction or early recovery). I wasn't happy about it, but I figured the least I could do was attend a variety of meetings and events so I knew what I was recommending.

Oh yeah the entirety of them in general haha. They're like little one-liners that just dig deeper and deeper. Brainwashing? Eh maybe, maybe some people like myself need to be brainwashed in some ways.

You hit on my dilemma. I don't like how cultish and crutch-like 12-step programs are, but that seems to be what people need. You can't just deal with your root issues while you're in active addiction, experiencing cravings, dealing with triggers, etc. Sometimes, people need a crutch -- at least until their bones mend.

AA (long before NA was a thing) was designed as a network to snag alcoholics after an evening spent in the emergency room or in jail, and give them a positive support network as they worked through the worst of their cravings. It was also a group of understanding individuals to reach out to and strengthen your resolve when you relapsed or were tempted to drink. And that, I think, is the functional limit of AA/NA.

But what gets me, is they seem to expect you to spend the rest of your life reminding yourself that you're an addict, that you are powerless, that you are some sickly thing whose only hope for sustained recovery is Mother Anonymous and her Higher Power. That is not recovery. That is like telling someone "you're healed, but only as long as you never leave the hospital."

I would argue that you achieve recovery when you are not powerless anymore. When you are strong, content, and most importantly, when you are able to openly face adversity. And that requires a steady progress that moves far beyond the 12 Steps.

Edit: I missed the "why do you think INTPs become addicted" (I'm paraphrasing) question.
I think we are prone to distress intolerance.

Distress intolerance is a perceived inability to fully experience unpleasant, aversive or uncomfortable emotions, and is accompanied by a desperate need to escape the uncomfortable emotions.

 

[Teffnology]

There are multiple factors at play but I have an addictive personality, as described by 3 different psychologists, and am currently addicted to THC. Being chemically addicted to THC is not very likely but definitely habitually (working on a research paper regarding this and correlation to how the addiction to smoking cigarettes goes far beyond a nicotine addiction and how that relates to THC use in culture)

I have gone through periods of alcohol abuse. I have had to take the DUI alcohol class and that is the extent of a treatment program I have been exposed to.

Distress intolerance and escapism are my number 1a and 1b reasons for falling victim to these vices. The cravings especially kick in when faced with negative or unpleasant emotions and in times of stress due to circumstances.

I am quite sure if I had access to harder substances I would be much worse off due to my addictive personality. So far it has just been gambling, THC, and Rum and those three have put in me a pretty substantial hole to date. I can only imagine if a narcotic was involved. Pills and needles ain't my thang in the slightest, but some nose candy would be awfully tempting from what I hear.

"Cocaine is helluva drug"-Rick James

Here's hoping I make it past 27 and stick to a mild THC addiction and a one and done alcohol policy.

As far as gambling goes... Poker still isn't gambling in my book but it certainly attracts a lot of gambler types and I have to learn to rise above their level consistently if I am going to say that with a straight face. The poker bug got me young and it has proven to be impossible to eradicate so I can only hope to keep it contained by feeding it occasionally so it doesn't consume me.

You can partially blame my mom for smoking THC with me in the womb, for the ganja addiction, but I have to at least take some of the blame. More on this to come...

 

[Cherry Cola]

Lost a friend to heroin last summer, my two oldest cousins who are siblings do nothing with their lives except take drugs and hang out with friends, I don't think they will end up dead but they will not end up doing anything else either.

And who knows anyway, when you mess with bensodiazepines and like to mix stuff, you can end up in a mental state where you're stupid enough to make a mistake that'll kill you. My oldest cousin is 26, ENTP, some anti-social tendencies, but still a nice and supportive guy. Really smart too, unfortunately he's kinda stagnated intellectually, probably as a consequence of having stagnated socially. Every now and then he screws up in some way and I get to hear it from my mom who's friends with his mom.

He's never really been super addicted to anything in particular for an extended amount of time, it's more like he switches between drugs. He can go clean for periods, but never for long. Doesn't seem to matter what he gets high on so long as he is high. It's like with the rats Jenny mentioned.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I've been addicted to two substances through my life. One is caffeine. I don't give a shit. I'm addicted. Deal with it.

The other was Tylenol PM, after a nasty break up a decade ago. I realized I was addicted, went cold turkey. It sucked for a weekend. No sleep, headaches, and I felt feverish, but one week later I felt perfectly fine.

Besides that, no. I don't feel compelled to drink frequently enough to become addicted. As it is, I drink somewhere between twice a month and once every three months... ish. I just don't have an addictive personality.

 

[swagilly]

I think INTP's are prone to addiction though I also think when we have a good reason and motive to not be addicted we are probably the most capable of fighting it.

I speak from experience.

 

[ENTP lurker]

I have a confession to make :
Hello, I'm ENTP_lurker and I have a problem: I don't drink alcohol. I have drank few mls at max of that stuff. I don't even drink tea. And I don't smoke.

 

[Jennywocky]

I have a confession to make :
Hello, I'm ENTP_lurker and I have a problem: I don't drink alcohol. I have drank few mls at max of that stuff. I don't even drink tea. And I don't smoke.

Wow. You need to step up your game a little, you poor deprived child!

 

[ENTP lurker]

In a way socionics LII (INTP) fits better with their Si (health) mobilising function with exception that I don't handle my body at all and I'm too much out there.

INTPs should be quite low at booze usage. I'm like Weird Al – one of those nicely behaving ENTPs who just makes parodies out of everything.

I think INJs might gravitate towards booze. At least the ones I know seek for that kind of company – the heavy Se-doms.
Booze in a lively company is very Se. Some Si users do it alone with exception of some ESJs (mixed bag) or there might be some casual relaxing use in a group.

 

[Jennywocky]

Well, like I said, I used booze for the "fun" factor, and maybe for coping with feeling powerless at a certain time in life, not really for any other reason, but it soured as it doesn't fix anything. Nowadays I don't drink much at all, really.

Parody generation is a worthwhile endeavor. Energy gets directed somewhere, and that's a creative effort. I actually can use creative stuff as a way to avoid/cut the edge of depression or boredom.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Hello vlassicisgood.

As stated in another post, although not as detailed as i dare to explain here,
during my late teens, i became familiarized with hashish
and found that i could use it to become more open and relaxed in social contexts, which had always stressed me out.
All of a sudden i had a lot more energy, i got involved in a variety of activities instead of being as reclusive as i was for as long as i can remember.
Initially the social context was due to my education and activity in the field of arts and humanities.
The people i regularly consumed with used this substance as a way to increase creativity.
(Although i must say, in retrospect, it didn't increase creativity, it only changed the methodology. So, i think what initially was so convincing and ultimately turned out to be a mirage was that sense of novelty.)
However, slowly, but steadily, the social context shifted away from that to a scene that was primarily focused around obtaining and consuming that particular substance.
There's a whole sub-cultural superstructure centered around this, e.g. Reggea, Rastafarianism, Hip Hop, etc.
Once you have opened your eyes to this you will see that every substance that is regularly abused has this kind of structure attached to it, and i think this has reasons which have to do with economics, social psychology and psychology of the individual.
But i digress.

Eventually, since this substance is illegal,
i found myself having to do with increasingly criminally minded people.
I felt very uncomfortable having sunk so low that i would have to associate myself with such crooks, such lumpenproletariat, just to get what i wanted from them, namely that substance.
Because of this, the original social context that involved bright and creative people, crumbled away.
In the end, not one of the people i initially set out on this "journey" was left.

After a few years i began noticing some side-effects commonly associated with the abuse of that substance.
My initial reaction to this was denial, and instead of quitting, i engaged even more in abusing it.
Fortunately it didn't take too long for me to arrive at my "breaking point",
when i realized how self-sabotaging this was and, once no longer clouded in my judgement of myself by abstaining for a little while, how disgusted i really was about what i had become.

So i got rid of all remains of the substance and associated paraphernalia, including everything to do with the culture around it and the people i've been in contact with in the end and i've been clean of it ever since.

Unfortunately, i have replaced one vice with another.
I would consider myself to be an "alpha alcoholic" today.
Two weeks without a drink as of today. Yay.
No, seriously, i'm working on it.

From what i gather, any type of group context in addition to individual counseling is more effective than any of those alone.
Without discovering what is the psychological foundation of your addictive behavior via individual counseling, you are not aware of the individual factors involved in it,
without the social cohesion of any group, be it the family, your friends, or, if you are too embarrassed to reveal your problems and your struggle to them, groups like AA/NA etc. you are more likely to relapse in the long run.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...-factors-the-power-universality-cohesion-hope

 

[RandomGeneratedName]

Kinda going through an addiction right now.
It's not an "addiction addiction" as i've noticed many other INTPs note it as.

I'm being very irresponsible with my ADD medication.

I took street drugs (nothing too serious) for around a year at 17 whilst amongst the wrong crowd, didn't haven't a problem with addiction whatsoever. Several friends did though. Since then, I hadn't drunk/taken drugs since 19.

Only reason have problem now is a certain someone in a position of power drove me to the edge of suicide and i'm still recovering from it.

I think INTPs at least, are prone to addiction/personalities because:

-Live in head/obssessive
-ASD/ADHD common in INTP, both have self control/impulse issues.
-We're all prone to stress more it seems, and stress seems a pretty consistant thing for most of us.
- Intense focus/spaceout/ DETATCHED
and a few other reasons, that's enough though.

Luckily, after childhood, I didn't end up an alcoholic in my teens, my father was one when he was younger (Stopped though), and my brother's father died from alcoholism 2 years ago. I turned into a "rage-a-holic" instead.

I wouldn't do AA myself. (Atheist), but if it helps you head in the right direction and through it, it's a good thing. I would of of DIED for a support circle/social, so suck it up :P

I've always be aware of "losing control" with drugs in the past, apparently it's a C-PTSD thing. (I dislike taking antibiotics, even). Since i've not been my confident strong "together" self for a while though due to aforementioned incompetánt.

Now it's not so much an "addiction", but just don't want to/can't(?) stop when start. I suffer with/for it, but still haven taken more knowing that i've been in pain and dehydrated. Making myself suffer I guess. Internet addiction/OCD avoidance etc just push that I've taken more than prescribed to the back of my mind.
A few times I've had the short conversation with myself "uhh what are you doing... ?" which never ends well.

However, I was on the addiction edge/on during the time I was being tormented "under the care" of my "doctor"....I Didn't sleep for days on end over and over, developed anxiety psychosis, was being prescribed high mg of medication, and even though I told them "I'm taking more because i'm up all night, can't sleep any way, it's the only thing getting me through the situation -long story" and I clearly had only degraded in health since medicated/dx, and what did they do? Continue prescribing.

I admit, it was scary to feel that pull of something outside of "my control".
I sooned stopped going back though for 6months out of the blue once I realised the position I found myself in. I couldn't deal with them any more nor medication. Had to take time out from them both and attempt again at a later time, once I felt things had settled down and hadn't completly lost my sanity.

I've seen other INTPs say it's not an addiction-addiction, for me at that dark time, it was more having developed a habit of taking medication whilst trying to make progress and being consistantly triggered which I was oblivious to at the time, trying to get things done, whilst frequently manic , redosing a little too soon to try to keep me on track and it spiralled out of control. 112~lbs 5'10.5'' out of control.


Thankfully(?) survived that never ending nightmare (8months~). I do have some issues still. but I'm going to stop deluding myself that meds will ever work now after going through that.
I've experienced "this time i'll get it right" on refill day, followed by "ffs" too many times now. I've got to start caring about myself, after the damage Psychiatrist caused.
Pretty much have been as irresponsible with my medications for as long as I have because things were provoked so often in me, I developed new associations and a whole bunch of new triggers (I can't even use my vegetable juicer anymore without feeling overwhelming doom and freezing me in my tracks *facepalm*).


Enough is enough though. We're too smart for this sh*t.




Goodluck with the alcohol -x-.
Hang in there at AA.



@Salmoneus: 2 weeks, nice.
Wish I could last even 2 days with my internet addiction.

@swagilly: Totally agree. We may not be physical doers, but anything in our mind is a completely different story. I once promised my GF early in the relationship I would entertain the idea of Christianity. So not being closed minded and comfortable in my stance, one day, I imagined guardian angel flying behind me for a few seconds as I walked down the street. I felt the manifestation. It "felt nice" to have someone having your back/watching over. "I see how how that could be alluring to others". Then, i went immediatedly back to my Atheist ways with a shrug.
Our minds truly are something else.

 

[RandomGeneratedName]

Guessing i'm starting short hand tomorrow after all

 

[Alias]

The topic of chemical dependency reminds me of this video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zidiWe9yq88

Silly sketches aside, I consider myself lucky in that I haven't had to deal with a lot of addiction in my family or area. But I have been extremely cautious, because I have the feeling that I may get addicted to something at some point. With enough willpower, an INTP should be able to overcome addiction.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

@Salmoneus: 2 weeks, nice.
Wish I could last even 2 days with my internet addiction.

Reached the 3 week mark before i had a drink again.
Not too good, but not too bad either.
I plan on tapering off by gradually increasing the time between having a drink.
We'll see how this goes, i tapered off prescribed medicine (opioids) for chronic pain years ago because it made me feel very depersonalized.
I also plan on fixing my computer/wikipedia/youtube addiction by radical measures...
If i had a hammer...
A user posted this somewhere else about a week ago,
it illustrates the problem very well...

[BIMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c1/20/5b/c1205b240a7f64e55b6b86ea84b21375.jpg[/BIMG]

 

[RandomGeneratedName]

Reached the 3 week mark before i had a drink again.
Not too good, but not too bad either.
I plan on tapering off by gradually increasing the time between having a drink.
We'll see how this goes, i tapered off prescribed medicine (opioids) for chronic pain years ago because it made me feel very depersonalized.
I also plan on fixing my computer/wikipedia/youtube addiction by radical measures...
If i had a hammer...
A user posted this somewhere else about a week ago,
it illustrates the problem very well...

[BIMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c1/20/5b/c1205b240a7f64e55b6b86ea84b21375.jpg[/BIMG]

LOL. Yeah i've had something similar that. Stimulant fatigue, that's no fun either.

That sounds like a plan!
One i'm jealous of actually. I can't count the number of times I've failed to do things bit by bit. Always been 100% or 0%. Maybe i'll take method acting lessons from a turtoise, may work. Or maybe i'll just figure out a way to alter every thing set up differently for the World, into a way, I can access it more efficiently.

Probably dreaming though, i've been doing it for however many years with no big breakthroughs, that i've been aware of at least. On the upside though, at least i'm the right type for the job

Hats off to you Salmoneus.

 

[addictedartist]

All attachment is relative

 

[Happy]

Off topic:
Here's an extremely accurate and totally not satirical documentary on addiction. I just wanted to share it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIOCPMwslfY

 

[yoshi105]

Does your addiction effect your ability to sustain your life? Are you still able to eat, sleep and have shelter comfortably despite it?

If not then eventually you'll wake up and realise it was never worth it and you'll become a better person and figure out how to get back on your feet.

If so then I suggest you imagine yourself being in that situation, I don't know you that well so I'll assume that this addiction will eventually reach to that point. It did for me (not alcohol though) and that's when I woke up and figured it out and got back to where I should be.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

LOL. Yeah i've had something similar that. Stimulant fatigue, that's no fun either.

Can you explain?
I haven't found anything on the internet with this name so far.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_overload
Perhaps?
Happens to me a lot when i have to deal with a lot of extroverts for more than a few hours a day.

Hats off to you Salmoneus.

I have no hat, but i'm tipping a provisional construct made out of clay and feathers to you.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Those not addicted to alcohol, what were/are you addicted to? Pavlov kept me from really getting started on alcohol via puking my guts out the first few times I got drunk. Mine:

learning
listening to music
video games
porn (almost a month straight sober, actually)

I think video games is the next to get cut. Music isn't going anywhere. I do plenty of other compulsive stuff stemming from my past, trauma type reactions, but none of it provides a reward. I'd kinda be more interested in stopping some of that, i.e. picking at fingernails and scabs, never getting my face wet, knuckle cracking, shaking my legs and along with them the whole room, things of that nature.

If so then I suggest you imagine yourself being in that situation, I don't know you that well so I'll assume that this addiction will eventually reach to that point. It did for me (not alcohol though) and that's when I woke up and figured it out and got back to where I should be.

I've been thinking about this. One of my main problems is having no motivation, because I really don't have that much desire. I've become comfortable with having hardly anything. What most people seem to take for granted I see and experience as almost paradise. I haven't always been like this, but really even if I now had more it wouldn't make me happier. I'd probably start giving it away. The less you have, the easier it is to maintain, and if it can be shared with other people, all the better.

 

[Jennywocky]

Those not addicted to alcohol, what were/are you addicted to?

- New knowledge (i.e., can web surf for hours and have a hard time stopping even when I have things I NEED to do, it's really hard to break away)

- certain types of food (i can eat a whole bag unless I force myself to stop and actually close the bag, take it into another room, and leave that room and not go back)

- video games... once I start playing, again I become easily obsessed. MMOs are fun but bad for me. Example: I went back to WoW in July 2014 and put in enough hours between then and when I quit cold-turkey in early Jan 2015 that I went from no rank to Elite rank on Raptr within 3-4 months. I calculated later I had spent 40 hours a week on WoW + my normal 40 hr/week day job. ARG.

(I hate the obsessive nature of it, it's like I'd come home, get on WoW, have to force myself to eat somewhere in the middle, and suddenly it was 11:30pm and I had to get up for work the next day. All the while I kept saying, "I'm just going to play for two hours.")

 

[Alias]

- New knowledge (i.e., can web surf for hours and have a hard time stopping even when I have things I NEED to do, it's really hard to break away)

I'd recommend Uncyclopedia. It's a spoof of Wikipedia that gives you no real information whatsoever. After reading enough of it, you'll find that you aren't learning anything new.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'd recommend Uncyclopedia. It's a spoof of Wikipedia that gives you no real information whatsoever. After reading enough of it, you'll find that you aren't learning anything new.

What, you're suggesting I pursue a weak equivalent of vaping?

I want my mental cigs!

 

[DonaldERay]

I am addicted to alcohol and porn. Usualy i get drunk and spend my money on sites like Chaturbate or Fapshows without any satisfation. It is controlling my mind. I know it is wrong but i still do it.

 

[Ostap Bender]

Can someone define addiction / problem with alcohol to a new INTPF member? Most people of my background I know can out drink me by a lot. People are known to down 16oz of vodka in one gulp.

As Soviet born & US raised INTP I come from culture of drinking. For example I had my parents visiting and for Mothers Day we took grandma & went to have 4pm "dinner" with around 10-12 people. There was a lot of food on the table and we would take shots of vodka / cognac every ~5 mins toasting different reasons. So while eating we can do as many as 10-12 shots per hour. These are our social standards and my people can handle our liquor.

In addition to that I love beer and have been a homebrewer for 5+ years. I have 2 tap beer draft tower in my apartment with easy access to freshest beer possible. I drink beer every day I am home (I was out traveling 3 months last year).

I do drink more than average but I do not have a problem. I never had any problems due to drinking, I do not binge drink, I do not drink myself to sleep or to escape reality. I drink hard liquor during required social interactions and love & enjoy beer elsewhere.

I never drink beer to get drunk. I drink it to enjoy it and prefer session beers over the hard stuff.

 

[Jennywocky]

In addition to that I love beer and have been a homebrewer for 5+ years. I have 2 tap beer draft tower in my apartment with easy access to freshest beer possible. I drink beer every day I am home (I was out traveling 3 months last year).

I do drink more than average but I do not have a problem. I never had any problems due to drinking, I do not binge drink, I do not drink myself to sleep or to escape reality. I drink hard liquor during required social interactions and love & enjoy beer elsewhere.

I never drink beer to get drunk. I drink it to enjoy it and prefer session beers over the hard stuff.

Doesn't sound addictive to me at all, if you're able to drink when you enjoy it and stop drinking when you don't.

My experience with bona fide alcoholics is that they can't stop drinking when they start, that they often drink as a coping mechanism / self-medication for some problems they can't deal with, and even when it's in their best interest to not drinking, they continue to drink.

Along with that, they acquire a physical addiction and suffer health issues from their addictive behavior, and their relationships suffer because they're usually inebriated, they lie to cover up their drinking, and they often blame their problems on others. Being drunk / hungover all the time can result in the loss of relationships as well as jobs. Extreme ones will experience regular "blackout" periods.

 

[Doktorin Zylinder]

I don't think I've ever been an addict per se. My mother is a closeted alcoholic and her brother died from it. They found his body naked in a field in the dead of winter due to being drunk and wandering off. My mother told me that my uncle drank because he hated his life. She also told me she drank because she hated her life.

I used to drink heavily back in my early to mid twenties because I didn't like a part of my life and I know I did it to escape from the pain. Drinking four liters of beer or half a bottle of gin in an evening for me was the norm. I managed to get help with the part of my life I didn't like and I barely drink nowadays. I maybe drink two glasses of wine a month and maybe a martini every six months.

If you ever have a chance to watch the South Park episode about AA, it aligns pretty well with my thinking of it. That and, from what I hear, a lot of it's members just replace one addiction for another, be it sex or drugs or whatever. I think it's harming a lot of people, now, but that is just my take on it.

I did read somewhere that INTPs have addictive personalities. Apparently, we're supposed to be heavy smokers and drinkers or something, but the funny thing is we are the best at going cold turkey to stop. Maybe we were never addicted to begin with but were just using the substance as an excuse for a different problem.

 

[TBerg]

I would like to read where it says that INTPs go cold turkey on things. It sound like an interesting angle to pursue.

 

[Doktorin Zylinder]

I would like to read where it says that INTPs go cold turkey on things. It sound like an interesting angle to pursue.

From page forty of The Secret Lives of INTPs:

Quitting
The good news is that Rationals may find it easier to quit abusing nicotine/alcohol/drugs than other temperaments. In describing drug and alcohol addiction, Thorburn (2000) noted that Rationals are less likely to require outward support (i.e. Alcoholics Anonymous) to quit, and they tend to start dealing with their problem earlier than other types. This is good news, because they are not as likely to let their addictions get far enough to destroy their lives.

Interestingly, Thorburn suggests that NTs may be more bothered by alcohol induced “blackouts” than by the loss of family and friends. The former symptom indicates the frightening loss of the mind, while the latter tragedy can be handled through detachment. Keirsey (1998a) similarly noted that Rationals
dislike the loss of self control entailed by becoming dependent upon addictive substances. It is probably this same self control that allows them to go cold turkey more easily than other types.

Thorburn, D. (2000). Drunks, drugs, & debits. Northridge, California: Galt Publishing

 

[ENTP lurker]

For me not being able to think would be horrible punishment. Substance abuse in form of mind dulling is comparable to torture. Bad air conditioning for example sets me in very horrific situation: thinking becomes hard and I start become very edgy maybe at some point suicidal if it continues too long. I cannot imagine the pain if hangover hits me.

 

[StevenM]

Just pot for awhile. Though I can't really call it an addiction, because even after the length of using it, I didn't really get 'hooked'.

Cigarettes are nasty. That is an addiction I'm still working on.

I've tried something that was even more addictive than cigarettes, so I like to think I'm one of the some that can empathize with the power of addiction.

Sometimes though, the thought of how difficult it can be discourages, and can make the quitting process harder.

I've just realized this forum has something of a psychological hold on me .

Coffee....lol. It's to the point where I don't function at all without it. (weak )

 

[Ostap Bender]

Doesn't sound addictive to me at all, if you're able to drink when you enjoy it and stop drinking when you don't.

My experience with bona fide alcoholics is that they can't stop drinking when they start, that they often drink as a coping mechanism / self-medication for some problems they can't deal with, and even when it's in their best interest to not drinking, they continue to drink.

Along with that, they acquire a physical addiction and suffer health issues from their addictive behavior, and their relationships suffer because they're usually inebriated, they lie to cover up their drinking, and they often blame their problems on others. Being drunk / hungover all the time can result in the loss of relationships as well as jobs. Extreme ones will experience regular "blackout" periods.

Don't get me wrong I do use alcohol as a coping mechanism. A cold beer at the bar after work or coming home is always relaxing just as a cigarette might be for others.

I know someone who has problems. Someone who drinks a bottle of vodka during work hours and drives between different hospitals. Someone who went to rehab twice since December and from what I hear no changes, he always starts again. He is near losing his 6 figure job, his wife, kids & home. He can also lose his life or harm others if he continues driving drunk. We are not talking about few beers, more like 1/2 bottle of vodka.

 

[Jennywocky]

Don't get me wrong I do use alcohol as a coping mechanism. A cold beer at the bar after work or coming home is always relaxing just as a cigarette might be for others.

Yeah, that's not really what I mean by "coping mechanism." A cigarette, a beer, a donut, watching a movie, exercise... people all use things to alleviate stress, to take the edge off to make a problem more manageable. Typically they still remain aware of and engage their problems. In this situation, I'm describing more the people who need to maintain a continual state of inebriation so as to never even address their situation. (Kind of a form of denial.) There's also the possibility of self-medication, as I noted, where the alcohol provides a kind of physical replacement of some lack of normal brain responses; and of course actual addiction can result in diminishing of normal brain chemical effectiveness, meaning you keep with something because it's now become part of the natural cycle and without it you go into withdrawal symptoms.