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ADD and ADHD scam

crippli

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No, that's not the theory. That's the dumbed-down newspaper headlines. Stimulants don't magically do something different to ADHD brains.
What's the smarted up theory?
Doesn't stimulants do something different to everyone?
Both cocaine and ritalin are stimulants for dopamine. They turn chemicals up, not down.

According to the national institutes of mental health, dopamine and norepinephrine stimulants works by increasing said chemicals which are in turn connected with thinking and attention.
So ADHD is then lack of dopamine. And correct dosage brings the level up where it should be? Why should one be worried about dependency if the level is now as it should?

Is it very different from lack of iron? That one is quite simple as one can cock food in iron stoves.

What else can one do to bring up dopamine? Does alcohol do that? I generally feel more bold and sharply focused after a few glasses of wine. Memory seems improved. Most everything feels improved. Results when doing various tests also came off better after drinking. Some things a whole lot better. Quite odd I think. Nothing particularly scientific about my testing, only quite the clear impression. My performance would have decreased from what is said. Competitions in flying that I used to do, if things started to get particularly challenging. I drank a whole lot in the evening, so that I was really hung over the next day. I got my best results ever through that method. At times supurb. Still freaks me out, as I shouldn't have been able to perform at all in that condition. But that didn't turn out to be the case.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Passive subtype, because I'm physically lethargic and basically never do anything, or at least I didn't used to. I exercise now, but that's unrelated. I think the zombie effect was more due to the excessively high dosage (I forget, but it was around 20-30mg per five hours, and I'm underweight, I was only about 50kg at the time and 1.8m tall) than anything. I guess technically any dosage would've been an excessively high dosage, since I don't actually have ADHD and thus my required dosage would really be zero.

Interesting, I guess passive ADD might not automatically benefit then, I was hoping you said hyperactive. Did your doctor prescribe the high dosage?

Also I don't think you mentioned what the real cause for your trouble turned out to be?

What else can one do to bring up dopamine? Does alcohol do that? I generally feel more bold and sharply focused after a few glasses of wine. Memory seems improved. Most everything feels improved. Results when doing various tests also came off better after drinking. Some things a whole lot better. Quite odd I think. Nothing particularly scientific about my testing, only quite the clear impression. My performance would have decreased from what is said. Competitions in flying that I used to do, if things started to get particularly challenging. I drank a whole lot in the evening, so that I was really hung over the next day. I got my best results ever through that method. At times supurb. Still freaks me out, as I shouldn't have been able to perform at all in that condition. But that didn't turn out to be the case.

I don't know but I listen to energetic music and it makes me happy and excited and easier to feel motivated to do mundane things. I also get a kick out of adequate sleep, taking multivitamins and running.

Examples:
 

crippli

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I don't know but I listen to energetic music and it makes me happy and excited and easier to feel motivated to do mundane things. I also get a kick out of adequate sleep, taking multivitamins and running.

Examples:
I sometimes do music, usually if there are many people around talking. To shut out all the voices. That helps.

This one, played on a piano. One of the few songs that I can put on repeat. I'd describe it as nice. But not sure if it does more then that.

More technically. I find it odd that from alcohol it's the next day that is the reward. What people call hung over. I feel good. Refreshed. My thoughts more clear. Like a new person. And this people I knew used to fear. When they woke up, they started drinking at once, to avoid the horrid day after. Weird people. That is the best part of drinking. This article says that alcohol withdrawal starves the brain of dopamine. So I figured I generally have too much. I told the psychologist this, and that it would most likely be a very bad idea to give me Ritalin, and that it could give psychoses, if my levels overflowed. I wanted them down. She still wanted to do it, but I refused. People usually think I am drunk, when I'm not. Or on drugs etc. But I'm not. Police pretty much always ask if I've been drinking and brings out their alcohol meter when they stop me.
 

Pyropyro

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So ADHD is then lack of dopamine. And correct dosage brings the level up where it should be? Why should one be worried about dependency if the level is now as it should?

It's not a lack of dopamine. I think Parkinson's is closer to what you are saying. ADHD is more like, a networking problem within the brain. The stimulants flood the brain with dopamine which produces the "high" and messes up the brain in higher dosages.

What else can one do to bring up dopamine? Does alcohol do that? I generally feel more bold and sharply focused after a few glasses of wine. Memory seems improved. Most everything feels improved. Results when doing various tests also came off better after drinking. Some things a whole lot better. Quite odd I think. Nothing particularly scientific about my testing, only quite the clear impression. My performance would have decreased from what is said. Competitions in flying that I used to do, if things started to get particularly challenging. I drank a whole lot in the evening, so that I was really hung over the next day. I got my best results ever through that method. At times supurb. Still freaks me out, as I shouldn't have been able to perform at all in that condition. But that didn't turn out to be the case.

Yup it does that but you need to drink higher and higher dosages of alcohol to get the same dopamine high just like "normal" drugs. Ever wondered why some people are alcoholics? This dopamine rush is one of its causes.
 

EyeSeeCold

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@crippli

What about the headaches and sensitivity to light and sounds people experience when hungover?

How often do you run into the police?

I can appreciate quiet music like your piano example when I'm truly relaxed, most of the time I think my mind is chill but my body is not.
 

rainman312

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Interesting, I guess passive ADD might not automatically benefit then, I was hoping you said hyperactive. Did your doctor prescribe the high dosage?

Also I don't think you mentioned what the real cause for your trouble turned out to be?

The doctor was a bit of an overly ambitious capitalist hack and had me on a high, expensive dosage in about a week, which was unnecessary.

I don't really know for sure what the trouble was. Lack of interest and motivation, I think. I still hate high school (who doesn't?) because it's soul-suckingly bland and repetitive and I could complain about it for a while but that's not the point. I now realize that I'm not actually in high school to be interested in the topics, just to do the bland work so I can go on to college and study things that I am interested in. So I just half-ass the work well enough to get As or Bs and spend the rest of the time studying what I'm interested in. It works until I get interrupted by depression, which causes legitimate issues beyond just a lack of interest. Luckily I'm on a good streak right now. I don't really think it's bipolar depression, but it certainly follows a similarly anfractuous pattern. Existential depression so bad that I do nothing and get suicidal ideations for one month, a period of happiness and motivation the next. This one's lasted a bit longer than usual, which is good. I think I'm getting better at intercepting the depression as it comes on and sort of providing an air mattress for it to fall on instead of letting it come crashing through the floor, so to speak. More concisely, I guess the trouble was a lack of interest coupled with periodic depression.
 

crippli

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@crippli

What about the headaches and sensitivity to light and sounds people experience when hungover?

How often do you run into the police?

I can appreciate quiet music like your piano example when I'm truly relaxed, most of the time I think my mind is chill but my body is not.
Only side effect is that I may be bodily tired if I didn't get any sleep. The upside of alcohol is the problematic part. A few glasses of wine is fine.Too much and I get psychoses. If I survive that. I can enjoy a really nice day the day after.

What works best is to drink alone. Maybe one bottle of wine. And then go to sleep before the effect reach the top. There is a window where I get dissy, bedtime... Eating a good breakfast. These are the days I can do the most.

In the city, where I have not been much the last few years, they stop me now and then. 3-4 times a year perhaps. I'd say they run into me, not that I run into them. I'd rather they bother someone else. If I have parked, I've done so for a reason, like sleeping. I dislike being disturbed when I need to sleep, eat, redress or whatever.
 

EyeSeeCold

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The doctor was a bit of an overly ambitious capitalist hack and had me on a high, expensive dosage in about a week, which was unnecessary.

I don't really know for sure what the trouble was. Lack of interest and motivation, I think. I still hate high school (who doesn't?) because it's soul-suckingly bland and repetitive and I could complain about it for a while but that's not the point. I now realize that I'm not actually in high school to be interested in the topics, just to do the bland work so I can go on to college and study things that I am interested in. So I just half-ass the work well enough to get As or Bs and spend the rest of the time studying what I'm interested in. It works until I get interrupted by depression, which causes legitimate issues beyond just a lack of interest. Luckily I'm on a good streak right now. I don't really think it's bipolar depression, but it certainly follows a similarly anfractuous pattern. Existential depression so bad that I do nothing and get suicidal ideations for one month, a period of happiness and motivation the next. This one's lasted a bit longer than usual, which is good. I think I'm getting better at intercepting the depression as it comes on and sort of providing an air mattress for it to fall on instead of letting it come crashing through the floor, so to speak. More concisely, I guess the trouble was a lack of interest coupled with periodic depression.

Okay yeah I understand how depression and adhd can be mistaken, perhaps even comorbid. I would suppose one more test is whether your life outside of school has improved as well since highschool or do you just have greater focus in classes? Also I hope I'm not stating the obvious but if you're experiencing periodic depression that is likely to be chronic depression with periodic hypomania.

Only side effect is that I may be bodily tired if I didn't get any sleep. The upside of alcohol is the problematic part. A few glasses of wine is fine.Too much and I get psychoses. If I survive that. I can enjoy a really nice day the day after.

What works best is to drink alone. Maybe one bottle of wine. And then go to sleep before the effect reach the top. There is a window where I get dissy, bedtime... Eating a good breakfast. These are the days I can do the most.

In the city, where I have not been much the last few years, they stop me now and then. 3-4 times a year perhaps. I'd say they run into me, not that I run into them. I'd rather they bother someone else. If I have parked, I've done so for a reason, like sleeping. I dislike being disturbed when I need to sleep, eat, redress or whatever.

Sounds like you're doing well. :) I don't think I've ever drunk wine, maybe once or twice. In general I don't have an appetite for alcohol and even suspect I could be predisposed to alcoholism so I stay away from it outside of social events. They say 1-2 glasses has health benefits but I would remind to be careful not to replace dopamine deficiency with addiction.
 

kora

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I took concerta today off a guy who has adhd (I met him at the American uni in Paris which I hang out at sometimes for some reason) who said it helped him concentrate and be creative, I was just like "can I try one plz" and he said sure and handed it over. Boy did it make focusing easy, statistics class has never flowed so easily through my attention. It made me perhaps a bit... Snappy or something, edgy, there was definitely something slightly cocain-y about it (which makes complete sense given the nature of concerta) it increased my confidence also. (Of course, there is a chance all this is placebo :D)
 

kora

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I bet this stuff is addictive and everyone saying it's great and it helps them is actually just saying that because they're junkies

(Joking)
 

crippli

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Sounds like you're doing well. :) I don't think I've ever drunk wine, maybe once or twice. In general I don't have an appetite for alcohol and even suspect I could be predisposed to alcoholism so I stay away from it outside of social events. They say 1-2 glasses has health benefits but I would remind to be careful not to replace dopamine deficiency with addiction.
Agreed. I do keep that in mind. But it might be too late, as I probably have drunk several hundred liters wine already. So if I'm not addicted by now, I doubt it's possible I ever will be. I stay away from booze, beer and such. Red wine have proven itself the best of them. I'm not inclined to go through all that testing again with all sorts of drugs and the danger to my well being.

So basically. Drugs are out, Red wine is in.
 

rainman312

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EyeSeeCold said:
Okay yeah I understand how depression and adhd can be mistaken, perhaps even comorbid. I would suppose one more test is whether your life outside of school has improved as well since highschool or do you just have greater focus in classes? Also I hope I'm not stating the obvious but if you're experiencing periodic depression that is likely to be chronic depression with periodic hypomania.

My life outside of school has improved considerably, but I just think it's because I've changed quite a bit over the past few years. I still don't really have very good focus in school, because most of the classes I take are pretty uninteresting (that should actually change next year, I'm taking a few pretty cool ones, or at least they look cool), but I can at least get enough work done to get decent grades. It's been more a matter of self-discipline than focus, I guess, although focus is related. I'm still not perfect at it, and my grades could be much better than they are, but at least I'm not getting Ds and Fs anymore. My lowest grade this year was a C, and I had only two I think. Outside of school, I've been more able to focus on my interests and improve in personal areas.

I've thought of that too, but I don't know if what I experience amounts to hypomania. Doesn't seem intense enough to me.

From wikipedia:
Characteristic behaviors are extremely energetic, talkative, and confident commonly exhibited with a flight of creative ideas.

The only thing that I get described above during my these depressionless periods is the flight of creative ideas, and that's probably more of an Ne thing than anything else. I'm pretty sure I have experienced hypomania before, and it's not very much like the state I'm in right now. Maybe I'm just experiencing really, really mild hypomania, but it seems unlikely.

Actually, upon reading a bit more of that article I found this, which seems to be a decent description of my symptoms.
 

Cherry Cola

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ADHD is very real as is the positive impact medications can have on it. It also a scam anyway. ADD is less well defined and not as debilitating. Heavy sufferers of either really are hindered tho. Its realy clear in heavy sufferers.
 

A_Scanner_Darkly

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FWIW i had an ENP friend in college who had been on Prozac (MDMA/MDA/"molly" analog) for most of his adolescence. around the time he started college, he was prescribed Adderall (a medley of drugs, but includes amphetamine?). we used to abuse that one quite a bit, back in the day. if you were holding, it was also very good for making $$$ around midterms or, especially, finals.

but yeah, back to my friend... not sure how much of it was just him, and how much of it was the drugs, but i don't think he'll ever be able to quite function ever again...we all agreed he would either end up a famous artist/celebrity or a homeless person. he actually got kicked out of school because he could no longer control his emotions and impulsive behaviors...he was back-talking professors (lol), full-on smoking weed in class (LOL), tearing up school property, and all manner of other things...

i feel bad for him...but i will say, and this is my general theory regarding the prescribed drug abuse, that i think the drugs enhanced his already bright mind and rendered him a genius. i truly consider him brilliant.

so, assuming this is a sort of Psy-Ops, at least one of the goals is to produce humans with super-intellects by pumping them full of stimulants from an early age. or otherwise, it is a side-effect of what is more obviously happening on the surface level (just doctors and big pharma makin' that dolla').
 

Sinny91

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Rosenhan experiment​

The main building of St Elizabeths Hospital (2006), located in Washington, D.C., now boarded up and abandoned, was one of the sites of the Rosenhan experiment
The Rosenhan experiment was a famous experiment done in order to determine the validity of psychiatric diagnosis, conducted by psychologist David Rosenhan, a Stanford University professor, and published by the journal Science in 1973 under the title "On being sane in insane places".[1][2] The study is considered an important and influential criticism of psychiatric diagnosis.[3] It was while listening to one of R. D. Laing's lectures that Rosenhan wondered if there was a way in which the reliability of psychiatric diagnoses could be tested experimentally.[4]

Rosenhan's study was done in two parts. The first part involved the use of healthy associates or "pseudopatients" (three women and five men, including Rosenhan himself) who briefly feigned auditory hallucinations in an attempt to gain admission to 12 different psychiatric hospitals in five different states in various locations in the United States. All were admitted and diagnosed with psychiatric disorders. After admission, the pseudopatients acted normally and told staff that they felt fine and had no longer experienced any additional hallucinations. All were forced to admit to having a mental illness and agree to take antipsychotic drugs as a condition of their release. The average time that the patients spent in the hospital was 19 days. All but one were diagnosed with schizophrenia "in remission" before their release.

The second part of his study involved an offended hospital administration challenging Rosenhan to send pseudopatients to its facility, whom its staff would then detect. Rosenhan agreed and in the following weeks out of 193 new patients the staff identified 41 as potential pseudopatients, with 19 of these receiving suspicion from at least one psychiatrist and one other staff member. In fact, Rosenhan had sent no one to the hospital.

The study concluded "it is clear that we cannot distinguish the sane from the insane in psychiatric hospitals" and also illustrated the dangers of dehumanization and labeling in psychiatric institutions. It suggested that the use of community mental health facilities which concentrated on specific problems and behaviors rather than psychiatric labels might be a solution and recommended education to make psychiatric workers more aware of the social psychology of their facilities

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojZn1P1CxJE
 

kora

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How would you describe the effects precisely from the medication you take ? ( to those who do )
 

A_Scanner_Darkly

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Don't perpetuate bullshit rumors.
really? i didn't think it was bullshit.

aside from a few (probably shitty, yeah) articles, one bit of evidence i was going on is that we gave this same ENP guy really high-grade molly on more than one occasion and he could NOT roll. we figured it was from all the Prozac he's done. guess not...

sorry i don't know as much about (neuro)psychopharmacology as you... asshole!

How would you describe the effects precisely from the medication you take ? ( to those who do )
TBH, and this was with Adderall, felt a fair bit like doing molly. i don't understand how it's supposed to make people focus, though, 'cause my mind was pretty much racing. very euphoric, epiphanic.
 

xbox

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you know what else is a scam? EDUCATION
 

nobutlogic

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WARNING: This post is too large. I regret nothing. That's a lie. I'm sorry.

I'll add another first-hand account. A lot of this is meant for those who think they might actually have it. Do note that ADHD doesn't affect everyone to the same degree, and several of the clinicians I've worked with have said I have a rather severe form of it.

I was diagnosed with the inattentive subtype of ADHD (ADD aka ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive)) at the start of my third year in college (now soon to be on my fifth). As others have said before, it's like putting on glasses for the first time for your brain. Unmedicated, I'm a swirling mess of apathy, fatigue, distractability. I forget what I'm doing constantly, can't remember a thing other people say (unless it's interesting). The most annoying issue in my case is the inability to direct my attention to tasks that don't have immediate reward or consequence.

After the discovery I, of course, had to research to confirm. My favorite source thus far is Russell Barkley. He pioneered the current accepted model of ADHD, which is the executive function / self regulation model. Barkley was a speaker for ADHD for a long time, you can find hours and hours of it on YouTube and elsewhere. He does the words well, and he relentlessly cites research/studies throughout. If you're questioning if you have the disorder, I recommend watching some of the videos where he talks about the underlying features of ADHD. Here's one, part of a playlist, that starts off talking about one of the main features: sustaining action to a goal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQNhh44GeV8&list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY&index=3
The executive function model applies to all types of ADHD. He tends to bring up narratives that apply to the hyperactive/combined ADHD subtypes, which might lead you to believe that every other thing he's said has been directed toward the other subtypes, which isn't the case. He's referring to all the subtypes most of the time, he just doens't want to waste time saying "For the combined/hyperactive subtype, [narrative]". He instead just goes on with "[narrative about the combined/hyperactive subtype because most of the people at these conferences have kids with this subtype, as it's more easily spotted/diagnosed]".

Other ADHD sources I like:
-Video description of the inattentive subtype
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spdSSKFKZNU
-Article on ADHD characteristics:
http://www.russellbarkley.org/factsheets/adhd-facts.pdf
-Article on the "Science of ADHD". Also a good site for ADHD resources
http://www.chadd.org/Understanding-ADHD/About-ADHD/The-Science-of-ADHD.aspx
-Small ebook on the inattentive type, $6.00
http://www.primarilyinattentiveadd.com/2011/05/adhd-inattentive-ebook-10-tips-to-help.html

Some of my general day-to-day ADD issues (non-medicated):
-In lecture, despite extreme intent to pay attention, I'll be able to semantically process around a fourth of what the professor says. If it's not one-on-one, or within a very short duration, I won't be able to pay attention to what is said. Even in one-on-one conversations, if I'm unfocused (most of the time), I will litter the conversation with phrases like "Sorry, come again?", "Before you said [this], right? Oh, okay", "Sorry, so you mean [this]?", and lastly, my favorite, "[uncomprehending silence] Ah, got it".

-Talking to people in general is a task. "Sorry, could you repeat that?", "Mhm, mhm (no idea)".

-Reading can be a major issue when unfocused. Repeating sentences 5+ times over, then breaking them into fragments until comprehension is achieved, is par for my unfocused sessions. If I'm not being graded on things, I tend to side step the comprehension, and aim for a general idea of what's going on (this kills me. makes reading less desirable).

-Rarely notice physical discomfort:
-My back has hurt immensely for the past hour. Never adjust posture for the rest of the night? Great idea.
-Steadily increasing wrist pain while gaming throughout high school? Never tell anyone about it, and ignore it entirely? Seems apt.

-Rarely notice mental discomfort:
-I'm massively bored/unhappy while doing this activity. Never search for other things to do? Right-o.

-When studying, I'll have to speak aloud to gather enough attention to focus on the problem at hand. I've found I do very well with visual diagrams (visual learner perhaps), and found on the googler that menards and home depot sell 8 foot by 4 foot sheets of melanine that work as whiteboards for $30-40, and put several of them in my room for diagrammin'.

-My focus on moderately boring tasks starts to drop off into a zombie-like state within 10 or 15 minutes, to where my judgment/efficiency is very much compromised. Barkely refers to this as your EF (executive function) tank depleting. He suggests short breaks every X minutes, 10 or 15 for me. If the task is very stimulating, you can of course raise X to something like 40 or more minutes. Once your EF tank depletes, it takes awhile to regain the levels of mental stimulation you had prior. This whole take-a-break idea goes for everyone, but typically the ADHD person will require more frequent breaks.

Medication:
-General information: I nearly shit myself when trying medication for the first time. When people spoke to me, I heard/semantically processed every word relatively effortlessly. I was more engaged in conversations, had energy, had motivation, several Ne explosions were had. This will settle down into a constant source of energy and focus you can rely on day-to-day. It's helped me develop routines, strategies, and a general dealing-with-life skillset, to the point where I can handle being off meds now, though I very much prefer them. I need to engage in ideas and theories day-to-day, so that focus is much needed. Studies show low doses of amphetamines have no negative long-term effects on patients. Patients return to their original brain functioning within 1-2 weeks when taken off it.

-The details: I've tried Adderall IR, Adderall XR, and Vyvanse. Research has shown that amphetamines (Adderall, Vyvanse) are more effective than methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta) for the inattentive type. Adderall IR and Vyvanse worked the best for me. It's advised you take the smallest effective dose to minimize side effects, and that's what's I've been doing. I get the zombie effect if I go past 10mg of Adderall IR (which is the starting dose for a lot of doctors, I'd recommend starting at 5mg, and going from there (what studies suggest)). 5mg 3x daily works decently for me. It helps with the fatigue, the tension headaches I get when I'm understimulated, the sustained focus, and more. My side effects initially were dry mouth, and biting my tongue a lot. Both go away within a few weeks in most cases. I have virtually none now.

I guess I'll further saturate this post with stories.

Story 1:
Senior year highschool, studying for AP English vocab test the night before. Start studying around 11pm. It's a typical vocab list. 10 words you'll need to spell right and use properly in your sentence of choice. Takes the average person a half hour or so to memorize? Spent the entire night on it. I sat down, put the vocab list in front of me, with all the definitions written down. Started attempting to commit them to memory. I would audibly read out the definition of a word to start. I'd give my brain 10 seconds to take in that information (it takes awhile for me to convert language into semantic understanding when the sentence is sufficiently complex to the point where my working memory cannot store/process it all at once), and then repeat. I'd do this until I could recall the general definition of the word in my head, so I could use it in a sentence. I would get one word down, and move onto the next. Upon returning to previous ones, I couldn't remember their definitions, so I'd repeat the process again. I eventually found the rate of progress to be insufferable, so I resorted to looking up their usage in sentences. Didn't help. Same loop. I grew frustrated at the level of mental expense in attempting such a simple task. And then, an idea struck me. Spend the entire night on it. See how far my ineptitude will go. The willful stubbornness morphed my frustration into self-deprecating apathy (oxymoron, you get the point though). I went all in, spent the whole night in foolhardy devotion to the mission. Just hours of reading definitions, and trying to fragment or distill them into understandable chunks. Come the vocab quiz, I got 6/10. I know the late time of night would be partly responsible for the struggle. At the time, I was just fed up with this intangible source of struggle, and this was me sort of lashing out at it.

Story 2:
Freshman year college, general day-to-day struggles. I struggled a lot with organizing my time, interacting with people, paying attention to lecture. By this point, I had realized that I lacked something other people naturally had. Internal monologue/inner voice. Others would use this to talk to themselves about what they're doing or going to do as they go about their day, and to me, that seemed so helpful. I usually just did whatever was in front of me, with no guiding principle or reason to it, inner voice entirely silent. No use of the English language was involved when deciding what to do. I think I'd just imagine myself doing something, and if it seemed to feel good, I'd go do that. The issue was getting the boring things taken care of. The schoolwork. So, I decided to try to mimic this inner voice that many others had. At first, I'd just talk out loud to myself in my dorm room, quietly, trying to guide myself in choosing activities to do. It was life changing. Blew my mind. It actually worked, for about 2 minutes, and then I'd forget to keep going. But ah, I was devoted, so when I eventually noticed I'd forgotten to use this "inner voice", I'd start it up immediately, devoutly declaring that I'd do better this time. The general trend was, I'd do it ~5 times for ~2-5 minutes each, and then after the 5th, I wouldn't remember for the rest of the day. I then tried to use helpful phrases. There were certain sayings or phrases that would help me focus in the past, and so I'd condense them into an acronym. One might be "use inner monologue whenever you can", and that would be the "I" in my acronym. I'd have maybe 3 or 4 of these helpful sayings "stored" in my 3/4 letter acronym, and I'd repeat them in my head whenever I remembered to do so, and try to abide to one of them and see if it helped. Like the inner voice, I would do this initially maybe 5 or more times, then forget for the rest of the day. I went through this cycle with several strategies throughout college. None ever worked.

-Story 3:
Surfing away, start reading quotes on some webpage. Come across a particular sentence that interests me. For the life of me, I can't take it in. I look at it, read it, and no coherence is made. I eventually give up, move on to something else. Later, I ask my friend about it, and he explains it. It still doesn't coalesce. Like the vocab list night, I felt like devoting myself to see this through to the end, to get the result I wanted. I ask him to repeat what he said. He does. I sit for awhile, bring it up again. He tries rephrasing it. We go back and forth for awhile. Eventually he got frustrated, so I apologized and left it at that.

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EyeSeeCold

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Thank you for sharing nobutlogic, your post has motivated me to commit to make an appointment with my school's pych counselor to see about a diagnosis and possible remedies. I would have done it today but I forgot...

My little brother was diagnosed with the hyper subtype (forgot about this too) and I read it can be genetic. In retrospect it would account for a lot of shit in my life, and I wonder what could have been different but I'm also curious where I can go from here.

Agreed. I do keep that in mind. But it might be too late, as I probably have drunk several hundred liters wine already. So if I'm not addicted by now, I doubt it's possible I ever will be. I stay away from booze, beer and such. Red wine have proven itself the best of them. I'm not inclined to go through all that testing again with all sorts of drugs and the danger to my well being.

So basically. Drugs are out, Red wine is in.
It's never too late. :) If you've found a method that works for you though, I'd agree that's all that matters.

My life outside of school has improved considerably, but I just think it's because I've changed quite a bit over the past few years. I still don't really have very good focus in school, because most of the classes I take are pretty uninteresting (that should actually change next year, I'm taking a few pretty cool ones, or at least they look cool), but I can at least get enough work done to get decent grades. It's been more a matter of self-discipline than focus, I guess, although focus is related. I'm still not perfect at it, and my grades could be much better than they are, but at least I'm not getting Ds and Fs anymore. My lowest grade this year was a C, and I had only two I think. Outside of school, I've been more able to focus on my interests and improve in personal areas.

I've thought of that too, but I don't know if what I experience amounts to hypomania. Doesn't seem intense enough to me.

From wikipedia:


The only thing that I get described above during my these depressionless periods is the flight of creative ideas, and that's probably more of an Ne thing than anything else. I'm pretty sure I have experienced hypomania before, and it's not very much like the state I'm in right now. Maybe I'm just experiencing really, really mild hypomania, but it seems unlikely.

Actually, upon reading a bit more of that article I found this, which seems to be a decent description of my symptoms.
That's what I thought I was describing but I guess chronic depression is technically something else? I can relate to the self-discipline and grades, it's what kept me from thinking ADD could be the problem because I was able to completely turn my gpa around and and develop self-motivation to succeed in my classes.

For you that seemed to have done the trick right? Even with my newfound motivation I still have some sort of disconnect between my actions and priorities, as well as memory / attention stuff going on.
 

nobutlogic

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Thank you for sharing nobutlogic, your post has motivated me to commit to make an appointment with my school's pych counselor to see about a diagnosis and possible remedies. I would have done it today but I forgot...

Congrats! I empathize with the forgetting. Set reminders if possible. Depending on your school's waiting list, the diagnosis process may take awhile. Mine took a matter of weeks (maybe a month, I forget), but it's well worth it. They may find other issues as well (social anxiety in my case).

My little brother was diagnosed with the hyper subtype (forgot about this too) and I read it can be genetic. In retrospect it would account for a lot of shit in my life, and I wonder what could have been different but I'm also curious where I can go from here.

I've heard the same, estimates from 50-90% of the disorder being genetic (or was it hereditary, is there a difference?). I've read other predisposing figures like if-siblings-have-it-you're-x-percent-more-likely-to-have-it, and if you have it, a parent is likely to have it, and vice versa. People from both sides of my family have been diagnosed with it as well, with both the combined and inattentive (possibly also hyperactive, haven't asked one of the cousins which subtype they are) type.

That's what I thought I was describing but I guess chronic depression is technically something else? I can relate to the self-discipline and grades, it's what kept me from thinking ADD could be the problem because I was able to completely turn my gpa around and and develop self-motivation to succeed in my classes.

For you that seemed to have done the trick right? Even with my newfound motivation I still have some sort of disconnect between my actions and priorities, as well as memory / attention stuff going on.

ADHD is hard to diagnose. Our experience with the disorder can be wildly different from yours, especially when you factor in the statistic that those with ADHD have a 70% chance of having one or more other disorders (comorbid disorders) separate from ADHD. I have social anxiety, vision issues, iron deficiency, among others, which likely differ from your comorbidities/co-existing issues and the others who've posted here. Other variables such as your childhood and current environment will also account for differences.

It's also important to keep in mind that other disorders/issues can mimic ADHD. Thyroid issues, learning disabilities (like dyslexia), iron deficiency, depression, etc.
 

dang

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I think ADD and ADHD and their treatment with ritalin are scams, with research being financed by out of control private American pharmaceutical businesses/lobbies who want to make money. Everyone who I've met who was diagnosed with ADHD are high IQ individuals who were bored in class and were put on drugs because their teachers couldn't deal with them. Ritalin is expensive and addictive, and the ones I have met who have been on it are all highly intelligent creative individuals who said it turned them into docile zombies when they were on it. What do you think, am I a mad conspiracy theorist? Do you have ADHD? I would certainly qualify for ADD easily, I'm all over the place, dreaming, fazing out, unable to get organized ever since I was a kid, I always got by in school eventually by winging it, still do. If you look at the set of criteria it's fucking ridiculous. "Do you dislike completing homework" and stuff like that. It honestly seems like such bullshit. I have no research to back any of this up of course. Surely we're all ADD now that we all wake up and are just bombarded with information on screens everywhere anyway. I would still like to try out Ritalin. Apparently some students at the American university of Paris deal it, so I'll buy some sometime :D

All sounds reasonable. I tried Ritalin once. A tiny amount. Felt like I was on speed. Never again. Are you American? I am. Haven't you heard? All Americans have ADD, and we all should be on Ritalin. Thank god for pharmaceutical companies. Without them we would be completely lost.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Congrats! I empathize with the forgetting. Set reminders if possible. Depending on your school's waiting list, the diagnosis process may take awhile. Mine took a matter of weeks (maybe a month, I forget), but it's well worth it. They may find other issues as well (social anxiety in my case).

I've heard the same, estimates from 50-90% of the disorder being genetic (or was it hereditary, is there a difference?). I've read other predisposing figures like if-siblings-have-it-you're-x-percent-more-likely-to-have-it, and if you have it, a parent is likely to have it, and vice versa. People from both sides of my family have been diagnosed with it as well, with both the combined and inattentive (possibly also hyperactive, haven't asked one of the cousins which subtype they are) type.

ADHD is hard to diagnose. Our experience with the disorder can be wildly different from yours, especially when you factor in the statistic that those with ADHD have a 70% chance of having one or more other disorders (comorbid disorders) separate from ADHD. I have social anxiety, vision issues, iron deficiency, among others, which likely differ from your comorbidities/co-existing issues and the others who've posted here. Other variables such as your childhood and current environment will also account for differences.

It's also important to keep in mind that other disorders/issues can mimic ADHD. Thyroid issues, learning disabilities (like dyslexia), iron deficiency, depression, etc.
The office is closed until the start of the fall semester so I'll have to wait a couple months, not too bad I suppose.

Yeah and I do suspect comorbidity, as a young kid I can distinctly remember a lingering feeling like I never formed any actual relationships despite having friends who I talked to daily, and I'd prefer to go straight home instead of hanging back and taking advantage of social opportunities. Now I just straight up have a phobia of small groups(not individuals, or crowds) and can't develop new relationships if it isn't forced. I can carry on a conversation with effort but don't know how to make it interesting for both parties or change the subject / end it gracefully. The obvious conclusion is asperger's but to me it's a chicken-egg situation so I don't want to make unqualified assumptions.
 

Haim

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Wow you were/are not interested with people boring shit without drugs, how is this normal?normal people like boring shit.Society have problem with my Attention deficit hyperactivity, I have society disorder.Being unfocused is an advantage for my intelligence, it allow only to process important information (and no remambring some random thing from school is not important data)
 

Sirach2:5

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It is Funny 10 years ago I was diagnosed with a mild form of ADHD when I was in highschool right after recovering from brain cancer (they my brain cancer may have caused it). I got a BA in history and MBA with the aid of a distraction free environment during testing. I had a stroke 3 years ago (brain bleed) am applying to go to the seminary where I would be essentially a masters in Philosophy and then a masters in Divinity (theology and church law). So they decided to have me tested again and apparently I went from ADHD to an above average boarder line gifted IQ. I never took any medicine along the way to help me focus.

I believe our brains are wired differently and there are those that learn differently and struggle in areas as I did. However I don't think drugs are the answer when it comes to ADD and ADHD. My case may be unique because of the amount of brain trauma I had but I believe those diagnosed with ADD and ADHD can learn new strategies for learning and focus and be just as proficient as anyone else.
 

dang

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I was going to post here a while ago but I got distracted and forgot to do so. I must have ADD. What was I saying?
 

Melkor

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Hm.
I'm not really sure how much I can genuinely contribute to this, but I was medicated for ADHD for some 15 years, taking ritalin initially for 3/4 years and then switching to dexamfetamine. When taken I was calm and sleepy, very content, but also very, very boring.

I had to take these twice during school hours to stop me harassing other children in school, and to generally commit me to my studies. Despite this I don't remember always being zombified (and still got into a great deal of trouble), so I have no idea how effective it genuinely was and didn't have the self awareness to really notice so much. My memory is a little foggy but I also believe I took fish oils for a few weeks instead of the above (Yes they were really grasping at straws), which was obviously not effective.

I had to attend monthly hospital visits where I was trained to lie profusely about the positive impact of the medication, I didn't desire to take the medication, I just desired to be a 'good boy'.

There was the quite curious situation whereby my GP denied ADHD existed and stated I was merely a bad child, but overall I've found that any information regarding the condition is to this day very sketchy, and so I treat every new source with the highest supsicion.


Overall though?

I would definitely say I exhibit numerous symptoms of ADHD that have pervaded into my adult life and are a constant source of bother and despair to me. Can I draw a line between what is a 'mental illness' and what is just me being lazy, poorly focused, and a rubbish sleeper, or just generally anxious?
Certainly not.
All I can say for sure is that the prescribed medication for the assumed illness helped with some of the above.

Christ I have no idea if it 'exists' but I'd be inclined to say it does?
 

nobutlogic

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For those who want to validate their belief that ADHD is real (I sure do), have an article: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/adhd-is-real/

From the studies and articles I've read over the past two years, the consensus in the medical field is that the disorder is valid, overwhelmingly so. It's really not worth arguing here, though. If we were citing studies that supported our arguments, sure, but lbh, citing personal stories and intuition is clearly the superior choice according to the fun per effort scale. I mean, both of these:

1) Blindly arguing that a possibly real disorder is fake, and
2) Blindly arguing that a possibly fake disorder is real

are way easier than reading a study on the neurological basis of ADHD. Whoops, how'd that get there. Don't read that, no. TL;DFR man. It has science in it too, eck.

"But wait, it isn't blind arguing!"

"Well then show me the studies."

"No, I mean, my personal stories and intuition hold ground."

"Well, your sample size is teeny and human intuition has been proven to be extremely fallible."

"Say what."

"Yeah man, our brains hate ambiguity (contradictory views) and effort (reading studies), and hence prefer to make conclusions when effort/ambiguity levels get too high, conclusions that are emotionally compelling (not factually compelling). We deal with ambiguity/effort by choosing the emotionally compelling idea, and when met with opposition, we tend to hold stronger onto our ideas to preserve the emotional value. This nobel-prize winning paper talks all about the pitfalls of human intuition."

"ADHD is fake!"

"Hek"

Ah, okay. I'm a little biased. I want to believe ADHD is real (specifically Inattentive ADHD, i.e. ADD). And I get that the whole idea of a forum is to freely discuss things, which include opinions, intuition, and whatnot, but when we get into this kind of territory, the realm of intuition seems so trivial, especially when that intuition is founded on a paucity of medical expertise. I get it, though. 'Tis a forum, not a medical journal repository after all.
 
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nobutlogic

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The office is closed until the start of the fall semester so I'll have to wait a couple months, not too bad I suppose.

If you don't feel like waiting + have insurance, you can contact your own doctor (possibly a family doctor (can diagnose and prescribe medication), or psychiatrist (can diagnose and prescribe medication), or psychologist (can diagnose you but not prescribe medication (family doctor's can then do the prescribing, I think)) for the medical evaluation/diagnostic process.

Yeah and I do suspect comorbidity, as a young kid I can distinctly remember a lingering feeling like I never formed any actual relationships despite having friends who I talked to daily, and I'd prefer to go straight home instead of hanging back and taking advantage of social opportunities. Now I just straight up have a phobia of small groups(not individuals, or crowds) and can't develop new relationships if it isn't forced. I can carry on a conversation with effort but don't know how to make it interesting for both parties or change the subject / end it gracefully. The obvious conclusion is asperger's but to me it's a chicken-egg situation so I don't want to make unqualified assumptions.

I've had every one of those issues, which all have been explained to me as byproducts of ADD, by my various psychiatrists/psychologists/doctors. They made that observation as a result of my entire list of symptoms, however, not just the ones you are describing. I'm no Asperger's expert, so I can't say much. It should be known that those symptoms are often reported in studies on Inattentive ADD.

I had two main friends growing up, and I failed to make "actual relationships/bonds" with them. I wonder now why they kept me around. I would go straight home, every day, ignoring the occasional phone call/text from a friend asking to hang out, despite them being people I like. The mental toll of carrying a "normal person" conversation outweighed the reward I could ever get out of it. Not enough nuance or charisma to make it worth the time. I've gotten much better over the years, so don't lose hope. Still takes massive effort at times, but the medication/experience-with-failure helps. It wasn't an intrinsic trait of not liking to talk to people, but a failure to be able to interact with people, which caused me to fear interaction in general.
 

Haim

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It is not that I argue people don't have ADHD, that will arguing that people are getting old , for me it is like calling creative people as having "disorder" or that that people are stupid is , I argue that it is not disorder nor problem, it is only an issue in society eyes, I don't accept their poor standarts/testing.
 
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