Abortion Vs. Adoption

[Toad]

First of all, I have no opinion as of yet against or for abortion. So for those people who think my thread is aimed at pro-choice or any other groups, I am not.

Why do people abort their babies when there are plenty of couples willing to adopt a baby? I am all for a person's right to choose, but what about the baby? Does s/he have a choice to?

This question came up because I was watching TV where they were interviewing people about abortion. One woman said, "I was raped when I conceived. I wouldn't be able to take care of the baby knowing that it's father is somebody I hate". Another man replied, "I am the product of my mother being raped. I'm glad she still had me".

So tell me why guys...

 

[square peg]

I'm not anti-abortion or pro-abortion. I believe that we should all do our very best to minimise unwanted pregnancies, but if the case arises in which one 'slips through' or, as shown above, someone is raped, then I believe that abortions are justified.

I guess the reason I'm not anti-abortion is because of my fairly realistic (although some may say it isn't) view on life i.e. a complex series of chemical reactions. A beating heart doesn't mean something is alive, it means that electrical signals are being sent to the muscle making it expand and contract.

If it were ever possible to put an exact time on when a consciousness develops, I think this would be a good indication of when abortions should no longer take place.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Why do people abort their babies when there are plenty of couples willing to adopt a baby?

Unfortunately this isn't true Toad. My parents became foster parents to two little boys this passed year. My mother told me that they literally handed her hundreds of case files and essential said 'pick whatever kid you want.' There are millions of children in the foster care system and most (especially the older ones) are never adopted.

 

[Tyria]

I think that people are afraid of having to keep the child around (and the time and investment that it takes to sustain the child).

I also think that people are unaware of the resources that are available for couples that wish to give their child up. It's a difficult choice that each couple has to decide on.

 

[RubberDucky451]

People should be smart enough to use birth control, there are hundreds of ways to prevent a pregnancy. Unless the girl is raped, i have little pity for the mother.

 

[Cogwulf]

Most women don't go down the adoption route because it means they have to go through the stress of the entire pregnancy, giving birth, and then they have to give away a child who they've already gained an emotional attachment to, and then they might also worry about the childs future, and worry further about whether the child will ever try to find them.
With abortions there's only the stress of making the decision and going to a clinic, they never see the baby and it's gone before the hormones start messing with their emotions, it's simply a much much easier choice

 

[Ombat]

Most women don't go down the adoption route because it means they have to go through the stress of the entire pregnancy, giving birth, and then they have to give away a child who they've already gained an emotional attachment to, and then they might also worry about the childs future, and worry further about whether the child will ever try to find them.

And on top of that, if it was due to rape, there is another added stress. Going through nine months of pregnancy that reminds you that you went through the ordeal of being raped? Also, you probably don't know the family history of your rapist, and therefore the questionability of the childs genes... I think it would be too much to go through.

I don't agree that there is an argument for the non-yet-existent baby. And I don't agree with the arguments that say "What if he grows up to be the next Ghandi / Ted Bundy". It's useless to think this way, and it has no real weight, because that's exactly what it is, "what if"

EDIT:

If it were ever possible to put an exact time on when a consciousness develops, I think this would be a good indication of when abortions should no longer take place.

I'm not agreeing/disagreeing, but what does consciousness even have to do with it? Even a newborn baby cannot tell you whether he wants to die or live.

 

[cuterebra]

I would abort a baby because pregnancy looks like a horrible, painful, dangerous thing to have to go through. Fecal/urinary incontinence can result from parturition, why chance that? And the number one reason for disseminated intravascular coagulopathy in humans is apparently childbirth. The risks associated with abortion are much less, and your body doesn't take half the beating.

It's not a "baby" early on, anyway--it's little more than a ball of cells, not unlike a tumor. the fate of those cells should be a decision made by the woman and her doctor.

 

[Tunesimah]

I think the pain/difficulty of childbirth is enough for people to go the abortion route. Also, it's a bit easier to keep your indiscretions/painful memories from the public if you go the abortion route.

Personally I can't support Abortion, even if the child is given up to foster care and treated horribly... if I was that child I would still want to live. My life hasn't been perfect, and my Mom certainly wasn't perfect and fairly impoverished... it is certainly possible that she could have gone the abortion route... and that idea freaks me out.

To think that I wouldn't exist right now... if my Mom had an abortion. I can't reconcile that idea with saying that abortion is okay... No matter how horrible and uncomfortable it is for the mother... I just can't...

Not to turn this into an abortion debate or anything...

 

[Madoness]

Why do people abort their babies when there are plenty of couples willing to adopt a baby? I am all for a person's right to choose, but what about the baby? Does s/he have a choice to?

Somehow still we have children being abused or are starving, homeless or growing up without proper care. I cannot understand people who are pro life on the subjects like these. If parents understand they cannot support a child as giving birth would make a miserable life growing up, they must have an ability to choose abortion.

Looking pro life through beautiful flowers may look a right choice but ask yourself, would you yourself be willing to grow up starving, abused, uncared for, if not, then stop preaching, but if you are, you just seem to be sadomasochistic.

 

[Tunesimah]

Looking pro life through beautiful flowers may look a right choice but ask yourself, would you yourself be willing to grow up starving, abused, uncared for, if not, then stop preaching, but if you are, you just seem to be sadomasochistic.

I would endure that if it meant the difference between existence and non-existance. There's always a possibility I can grow and become more than what I came from...

And even if my current generation is awful, you can't predict what may happen down the road. I mean you can look at many impoverished horrible situations in life... and even in that life it is grim and dark and impossible... but look generations in the future and there is the possibility of improvement.

There are probably whole patches of humanity that lived through horrible conditions to get to where we are today... should they have had abortions if it was available to them? If one of your parents lived one of these horrible lives, should their parents have had an abortion?

Maybe you are okay with the thought of not existing... I'm not so comfortable with that idea...

 

[walfin]

Most abortion opponents contend that a baby should not be aborted because it is life, thereby leading to pro-choice advocates contending that abortion is permissible because a foetus is not alive (or at least, not until a certain period). This neglects the point that but for an abortion, the most likely development of a foetus is to become a baby, which is most certainly life. It is not merely a possible outcome (like for a sperm or an unfertilised egg) - it is an almost certain outcome. Even if it isn't killing, it frustrates the development of a life, and we cannot claim that the foetus has no rights.

The other thing that abortion opponents like to contend is that abortion is murder. Not every loss of life is a murder - murder is an intentional killing without excuse (like self defence). So abortion may be acceptable even if the foetus is life.

It follows, then, that in every case, the rights of the foetus, the mother, and perhaps the father (if known) must be considered. I don't deny that pregnancy takes a toll on the mother. But it's often the case that people who have very nearly died are much more thankful for life (I don't know about almost-aborted babies but I do know how recovered cancer patients feel). Those who know that they were very nearly gotten rid of would, I believe, fight the assumption that they should have been aborted because they were likely to be starving, abused, and uncared for - just because the world doesn't give a shit about me, it doesn't mean I should die.

 

[Madoness]

Maybe you are okay with the thought of not existing... I'm not so comfortable with that idea...

A thought of not existing? If I don't exist, my thoughts now would not matter. I'm perfectly okay with that.

But lets take the situation of a family with already four kids and fifth is on the way. They have financial problems, kids already have almost no clothes to wear. They get their food from social health care etc (they can't afford another kid). Giving a birth to another kid in this situation is an immoral act. Don't birth lower other kids opportunities to achieve a better life? A parent knowing it and still giving birth in my mind acts against her other kids well-beings.

I would still let the parent have an opportunity to give a birth but abortion in this case would be perfectly accepted.
But to not have a choice to choose abortion would not be pro life if it would lessen already struggling families abilities considerably to give their kids a life we all aim for, food, clothes, education and most of all, home.

 

[Ghost1986]

Why do people abort their babies when there are plenty of couples willing to adopt a baby?

people are too obsessed with having their pathetic little bloodline existing to care about adopting. most people who adopt will either have no choice or want to help unfortunate children and many of those who can not have children will still not consider adoption.

on the other hand though, you have people who dont want to pass their DNA and only intend to adopt. this is the stance i have taken and it has not been well received by my family.

 

[Tunesimah]

A thought of not existing? If I don't exist, my thoughts now would not matter. I'm perfectly okay with that.

But lets take the situation of a family with already four kids and fifth is on the way. They have financial problems, kids already have almost no clothes to wear. They get their food from social health care etc (they can't afford another kid). Giving a birth to another kid in this situation is an immoral act. Don't birth lower other kids opportunities to achieve a better life? A parent knowing it and still giving birth in my mind acts against her other kids well-beings.

I would still let the parent have an opportunity to give a birth but abortion in this case would be perfectly accepted.
But to not have a choice to choose abortion would not be pro life if it would lessen already struggling families abilities considerably to give their kids a life we all aim for, food, clothes, education and most of all, home.

But if you had the choice between existing and not-existing, what would you choose? Should someone else make that choice for you before you have a chance at it?

Is it a proper trade off for another person, for the well-being of others? Quality of life seems rather small compared to new life... it's like a scalable factor as opposed to a whole new dimension... I don't think they are comparable. To me new life always trumps quality of life... no matter how miserable. To me that's new thoughts, new ideas, new experiences... new possibilities. I don't care how wretched and awful their lives become... that's basically par for the course of human existence... and it's still worth it.

 

[Cavallier]

It's a deeply personal and emotional decision. I can't bring myself to take a stance on the issue as a whole because of this. Everyone must make their own choices in life and I will not pass judgment on everyone who wants or does not want an abortion or give their child up for adoption based on my small personal experiences.

Personally...I honestly don't know if I'd choose an abortion or an adoption if I got pregnant. I think that when I was younger I would not have been able to keep a child and probably would have gone with giving the child up either with abortion or adoption if the father was uninterested in helping me raise the child. Now that I'm older and my life is stable I'd keep the kid and raise it.

I'm going to raise one side point: While there are defiantly a lot of ways to prevent pregnancy there are even more reasons why people don't practice pregnancy prevention. Lack of education (abstinence my ass), religion, pressure from peers or sexual partner, and taboos are all fairly strong influences on whether or not a person decides to use birth control. I refuse to lay the blame entirely on a girl who has gotten pregnant because her boyfriend pressed her for unprotected sex or because her parents refused to teach her pregnancy prevention or give her a sense of self worth.

/rant *stomps off to the rant thread*

 

[Madoness]

But if you had the choice between existing and not-existing, what would you choose? Should someone else make that choice for you before you have a chance at it?

The question would still not matter. If somehow I knew my not coming to existence helps other people to not fall into poverty, I would choose not existing Since I would not exist, am not aware of anything, therefore what already exists must have higher priority in that matter.

Is it a proper trade off for another person, for the well-being of others? Quality of life seems rather small compared to new life... it's like a scalable factor as opposed to a whole new dimension... I don't think they are comparable. To me new life always trumps quality of life... no matter how miserable. To me that's new thoughts, new ideas, new experiences... new possibilities. I don't care how wretched and awful their lives become... that's basically par for the course of human existence... and it's still worth it.

Look at homeless people, starving people... be glad some of their parents thought the same. Next time you see one, look in his/her eyes and tell the same. (With a smile on your face) Tell him/her, his/her suffering is all for the best for all to have a chance to live.

And next... trade places for a week.

 

[Ombat]

it's like a scalable factor as opposed to a whole new dimension... I don't think they are comparable. To me new life always trumps quality of life... no matter how miserable. To me that's new thoughts, new ideas, new experiences... new possibilities. I don't care how wretched and awful their lives become... that's basically par for the course of human existence... and it's still worth it.

So, on a scale, to me, miserable life would be a negative value, happy existence would be a positive value, and non-existence would be zero, or neutral.

So then, I can't understand why miserable > non-existence.

Maybe you're not miserable, and honestly that's great but how do you know that a miserable person feels that his life is "worth it"? I don't know anything about you or your life, but if you're happy that you're alive, which you seem to be, then you aren't miserable.

 

[Kuu]

Abortion. Because realistically, the probability of adoption is low, and it does not guarantee a quality life. We already suffer from worldwide poverty, worldwide idiocy and worldwide overpopulation to a point of near catastrophe. Why add to that problem?

I think people are too selfish to be wanting to have children when we live in times like ours.

But then, I'm an advocate for widespread sterilization, reproduction exclusively through cloning and collective parenting... (ah, there I go, derailing yet another thread).

 

[grEEEn]

I've gone through an abortion. If I hadn't, I might've been a mommy like, next week.

Meh.

I was on hormonal birth control (depo provera) and my partner had had a vasectomy. Pregnancy didn't seem like a realistic outcome AT ALL, but once I discovered that my preiod was late, I took a home pregnancy test. It was positive. I took it again in a couple days, it was still positive. I went to Planned Parenthood and took yet another test, and that too was positive. I talked to the counselor there about my options, she gave me a book about being pregnant and the phone number to the woman's health clinic. I talked with my partner about our options. Now, I'm not in a relationship with this guy, it was just a one time thing. He was technically still married at the time, and has a kid in the 7-10 year old range. At first his reaction was very negative, "Can't be mine, I'm fixed" but I explained to him that I hadn't gotten laid in months before the incident, so there was not a doubt in my mind it was his. So he came around to being able to talk about it, and he said he supports whatever my decision is, but would rather terminate. I agreed. I was raised by an ISFJ who runs a daycare and has been bugging me for a grand child for some time, so it would be way too much drama if I were pregnant and gave her grandchild away add in the fact that I'm not so financially stable, the sperm doner is even worse off, I don't take as good care of myself as I would like to be able to, I was uncertain about the potential effects of depo coming out of my system while pregnant, and the thought of another human living inside of my body being horrifying - I chose abortion.

My ENFP BFF came to the hospital with me, bought me plastic dinosaurs and a Jughead comic book from the gift shop to keep me entertained and hold my hand and carry around papers and moderate my water intake and be my cheerleader. It was awesome. When I got to the room where they had the group of women preparing for surgery, my friend and I had the staff laughing. I had been reffering to the embryo as "chee chee the panda" and singing "pandas must die" and I'm sure the other women thought I was terminating because I'm too crazy to be a mother. And then I got to be on valium. Surgery went well, I was still entertaining the staff through my dizzy slurring and groaning from cramps (induced labour sucks) and got an IUD installed (I no longer trust hormonal control at this point) and the whole point of my rambling about all of this, is that in the recovery room my buddy told me that I took the whole thing so much better than anyone else there. I have terrible hearing, so she told me that others were crying and being pitiful, and that I'm a fuggin CHAMPION.

I would totally go through it again if I had to, it was a good excuse to get a couple days off of work and not have a parasitic human monster living inside of my body. Don't be afraid of abortion ladies.

 

[Toad]

Wow...you are one cold hearted bitch. lol. Good for you though. Thanks for sharing your story. I often hear how horrible getting an abortion can be for women. Glad it wasn't so for an INTP woman. Go Canada!!!

 

[Enne]

*shrugs* I don't like hearing the stories.. they make terminating a life seem like taking out a rather inconvenient load of trash or something.

 

[Kidege]

Wow Greeen. *is speechless, but not in a bad way*