Ability of two minds

[LucielaMinerva]

Wondering if it's me with a psychological problem and quite plausibly having psychopathic tendencies or if it's normal amongst INTPs (or any other type, for that matter).

You see, I'm a somewhat emotional person. Well actually I'm just highly sensitive- physically, emotionally, audibly and immune system wise (-_-") and I believe it's a combination of my physiological build up (hormone wise- I actually suspect I have a hormonal problem that's interfering with my moods and I'm quite bipolar) and my environment. My mum is quite possibly an ENFP (or an ENFJ) while my dad's quite possibly an ISTP.

So anyway I had a shitty childhood (internally, not so much externally, although I did get beat up often but it's cause I was always rebellious to my parents :X) and I had very little friends when I was young. People don't really understand me and/or get me. It's not that I didn't want friends. Just that people didn't really talk much to me and not many shared my interests of reading and gaming back then.

But in any case, I went through several bouts of depression in my child/teenagehood and it's got to a stage in adulthood where now, being better equipped with knowledge, I actually am seeking help for my depression. My doctor said I tend to keep things in my head too much that when it explodes, shit happens. (I used to cut myself until my mum found out by barging into my room. Now I don't dare anymore and just keep it inside me even more.)

Most of the time I'm emotionless, just enjoying my games, reading or music. If I didn't have any of those, I would be on msn, chatting with my friends or arguing away in some forum.

When I'm NOT emotionless, or when something tragedic strikes me, like extreme sadness or anger, I notice that I am able to feel the extremities of said emotions, BUT I have this part of me in my head that's there, in the background, noting what is happening, monitoring my physiological responses (increased heart rate, temperature, chills, etc), and then analysing the cause of the outburst, then coming up with whole reports of the cause, what I am doing and what I should be doing next.

Now I find that really weird. It's like I have two minds (ergo, thread title)- one in my heart and one in my head, and both functioning at the same time and depending on situation, I usually express my emotional self to those I think I can get away with.

I think I'm just being very attention seeking because if I wanted to, I could forget issues and not be very emotional. I do not tell people when I am having my real bouts of depression. I just walk away to one corner and cut contact with people and live through it by myself. I honestly have no idea how long more I can cope with this. It's just too much for my mind and it's showing in my health too. I get sick very often, and way too easily. My immunity drops when I'm under stress.

I am someone who is very hot tempered- either it's genetic (my mum is like that) or it's environmental (copied from my mum's behaviour) and extremely impatient.

But over the years, I've trained myself to be more patient and it's yielded results.

Other than my fiery temperament and impatience, I appear pretty much "calm" or detached most of the time (in real life). I act so well in real life that my colleagues are incredulous that I need anger management, lol. What I know for a fact is that I CAN act extremely well. That way, I will show a side that would yield me the best results to the company I'm with. Somewhat stealthy and wily, but that's me.

My friends think I'm extremely emotional online (esp. via msn/facebook), because I tend to be very expressive of my anger/disdain often, but what they don't really know is that although I've typed something really harsh, I'm actually calmly staring at my screen and probably listening to some music. ROFL.

Sometimes I troll online when I'm having PMS. LOL. My main targets would be idiots who say stupid things.

Either I'm unconsciously seeking attention and dramatizing or there's something really wrong with me.

Would it not be for my religion and the development of my "feeling" side by my mum, I think I would be a selfish bitch who would not hesitate to kill in cold blood. I do acknowledge that I tend to have psychotic tendencies, and sometimes the thought of it sends a chill through my spine.

Fancy that, being afraid of myself.

I am glad I have direction and guidance in life, and sad for those like me who do not. I understand what it feels like.

So do you INTPs share this same ability (not my life story, just the two minds) or is it just me being weird?

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I can't relate to the severity of the emotions you describe. I've had my bouts of depression but I just became more withdrawn than normal and had sleep problems. I wouldn't say you are abnormal for INTP in terms of any sort of boundries of what an INTP supposedly is. There are broad ranges of feelings and behaviors within every type. It seems though, the problems you describe as being particularly troublesome for you are not type related at all. Any type can have anger issues, that's coming from something else in all liklihood. A genetic reason, an environmental reason or a simple chemical imbalance in the brain could be the cause (or a combination of causes of course). It took a long time to find out that my problem was mainly chemical imbalances.

 

[LucielaMinerva]

Wait, I'm not asking about my emotions. That's normal for a somewhat depressed person, and depression is not native to any type. I'm talking about being able to feel completely emotional while being completely technical/analytical/emotionless AND being conscious of the two emotions/functions at the same time. Something like having a bird's eye view of myself WHILE I am experiencing... myself.

It's like I would be emotionally distraught that someone died but I would be thinking, at the same time WHY I'm feeling distraught, HOW distraught I am, the cause of death of the person, what would thus happen to that person's family, that person, what death is, etc.

The two functions are independent of each other and I am very aware that both are functioning. They are not subsets of each other nor are they overlapping each other, nor is one a cause of the other.

It's like my emotional side is detachable from my "self" and so is my "rational" side. Something like lego blocks, yanoe?

I can stop being emotional when I want to and stop my logical processes when I want to. All I have to do is to switch it off.

Sometimes I feel like a machine more than a human.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

The whole thinking/feeling duality just shows that your an NT, however the behaviour that you've described suggests that your rational self isn't in control.

Do you talk to yourself?
For me this serves as a great way to maintain a healthy perspective in any given situation, it can also be quite entertaining. If you write fiction this should come natural to you, of course once you've created this "other self" and talked to it a few times you'll find it'll start making some, uncomfortable observations.

I've always thought that people who can't stand being alone, don't like themselves.
Better to risk insanity then live like that, at least that's my opinion.

If your depressed right now, listen to this, it makes me feel bettter when I'm existentual.

 

[LucielaMinerva]

My mind is the place where a lot of things happen- great and small, calming or frightening. If you mean do I converse with my selves in my mind, then yes, I do that. When I was younger (like about 6), I used to talk to this other... thing, which I call "me" (little surprise -____-") after everything I did. I used to do it rather AUDIBLY, until I realised that my voice was pretty loud. Since then, I've conversed with "me" in my mind, and now, I seem to have two "mes" instead. ._x

I am three persons- my heart, my mind and me. Like I mentioned, they are like lego blocks, detachable, independent functions of their own.

My "self" is a dreamy like state of existence and non-existence. These are my basal needs of food, water, and whatever that I need to survive. I do not feel anything in this state, not anger, not happiness, not sadness, just... emptiness. It's like a tabula rasa, and I need my two other functions to make me feel "alive". It is this part that interacts with the other two parts.

My heart is where my humane side is. This is the part that tells me not to choke kittens when I am mad and bake my mum cookies when it's Mother's Day (because I am supposed to show my "love" or something like that). This is what governs my feelings, my morality, my predisposition to do good (or bad), my ability to feel, empathize and feel the pain others feel. I have an acute ability to understand in whole how someone will feel by how they describe something. I do not need to put in effort to understand, it comes naturally, working in the background to make me respond appropriately to emotional situations. That's why I make a good descriptive writer (as most of my essays and poems are descriptive in nature) as well as someone to whom people speak to to get solutions to their problems (and one reason why I want to be a psychologist when I grow up).

My mind is where I analyse the functions of my self and my emotions and the outside world, and how I chart my journey through the day. I do not need to put in effort to think upon issues like what people should do when they have problems because this function acts naturally and works in the background. Most of the time when faced with decisions, I use logic first and think through things in my mind (although my ideas tend to fly very fast all around and sometimes I need to write them down so I don't lose them) and if I finally cannot come to a decision (i.e. stuck in the middle between choices), I go with intuition. I can predict results of things to a certain extent when I concentrate (which is why I can get pretty lucky in games- I KID YOU NOT, but it's very tiring to do that. No, I am NOT CRAZY. Not in this aspect anyway)

My intuition is very strong and the times I fail is the times I didn't listen to my intuition. I tend to dismiss intuition and my feelings because they are not enough for me to make decisions. These are the times where if logic fails and I'm left with intuition, I take my chances with mathematical probability and end up failing when my intuition tells me otherwise. I hate that feeling, which is why I hold the philosophy that "logic isn't everything", because there are just some things that logic cannot solve, especially when you have a lack of information!

I loathe making decisions with something I cannot have a firm grasp on- especially feelings. I don't understand feelings well and it irritates me because I have to depend on them sometimes. I also get annoyed by lack of logicality when people (like my mother pfft) like to use "feelings" to make judgements without even considering the pros and cons of a situation. It's a pet peeve and I mock such decisions. I prefer using something I have that has been proven to work (e.g. logic and trial and error)- I feel that that is the correct way to do things (although I know that sometimes logic is not enough). I am a scientist by nature, if you may.

What is disturbing me right now is not that I have all three, but I am able to feel the heart and mind at the same time, when my supposed "self" is experiencing a surge of emotions. My choice of response can be either (I can act rationally and compromisingly or I can act selfishly and burst out at the person), but my choices are severely influenced by the outcome.

E.g. I can be extremely rude and snappy to someone I'm familar with when I am annoyed that they did not see the obvious (because I know I can get away with it) but if a boss or someone in power does it, I will hold my tongue (because I may get fired or demoted).

This shows I am extremely selfish and manipulative of situations, and I know that's not a good thing. Probably one reason why I tend to lose people, or, people tend to lose patience with me. I'm working on that, but basically I tend to get things my way. I want it -my- way and I don't really care about how much you dislike it.

I reckon this behaviour stemmed from young, when my grandparents pampered me by getting me what I wanted when I wanted it. It made me into someone who is somewhat ungrateful and self-centered.

As you can see, I'm rather introspective and I think about things a lot. I know I have advantages over other people (I'm more creative, intelligent, witty and smarter than normal people or most of my friends- not because I say so but because they tell me that), but I dislike myself because I KNOW my real self and I loathe my real self because I am not what I want to be. I am who I am and I dislike who I am. I wish I was not born.

I'm a perfectionist and I dislike it when I cannot do something. Before doing something, I would think about whether I can achieve it or not, and if I think I cannot, I won't bother with it.

Besides that, I'm HELLUVA lazy BUM and I totally cannot be arsed to do anything. I am extremely unreliable, but that's cos I live for myself, not others. I tend to do things on a whim (I'm a very random person) and when things catch my interest. Once I've figured it out by tinkering with it, I go back doing my own stuff until I find something else to explore.

So... yeah. That's more or less me and my two minds. Maybe I'm not even human.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

You're an INTP,

I am three persons- my heart, my mind and me. Like I mentioned, they are like lego blocks, detachable, independent functions of their own.

They sound like aspects of self, a fairly common means of organising one's perspective into manageable portions, but it's not the "other self" I'm referring to.

but I dislike myself because I KNOW my real self and I loathe my real self because I am not what I want to be. I am who I am and I dislike who I am. I wish I was not born.

The "other self" I'm referring to would be the one that points your flaws out to you, then scolds you for being melodramatic. I've been depressed but I would never cut myself or consider suicide, since it would only fuel the tormenting my inner bastard; I cannot bear to do something so undignifying whilst my internal mirror image taunts me for my weakness.

I have an acute ability to understand in whole how someone will feel by how they describe something. I do not need to put in effort to understand, it comes naturally, working in the background to make me respond appropriately to emotional situations.

You're far more emotionally developed than me, my repressive nature gives me a great deal of self control & patience, but at the cost of the emotional intelligence you posses.

 

[Enne]

What you've described is probably common to a lot of NT types, I agree, but it sounds like you are experiencing a poor integration of feelings and or more intense urges / aspects of persona into your external life. I think that it's possible that you are an extrovert who has used introversion and withdrawal as a coping mechanism. It could also be possible that the seperations were created to allow your mind, experiencing an excesses of unemployed mental energy, some outlets to play around with all of this mental power. I have experienced similar tendencies, and have to say that finding external facets can help give outlets to the various channels of your mind.

Clinically wise, have you thought about seeing a counselor who works with gifted adults, or trying more challenging course matter? I experience the instigation tendencies / real life trolling urge when I'm around people who don't stimulate my Ne/Ti. You might want to take an IQ test, or find some challenging projects that can put your intensity to good use. I think that the depression and high polarities you're experiencing are a result of a powerful engine (your brain) that hasn't had laps around the track (intense mental stimulation) in a long while.

 

[LucielaMinerva]

Hi Cognisant and Enne, I thank you sincerely for taking the time to read these uber long posts and the effort spent to help me with this. <3

The "other self" I'm referring to would be the one that points your flaws out to you, then scolds you for being melodramatic. I've been depressed but I would never cut myself or consider suicide, since it would only fuel the tormenting my inner bastard; I cannot bear to do something so undignifying whilst my internal mirror image taunts me for my weakness.

Ah, that's the cold, thinking "self", i.e. the brain me. It can be pretty sarcastic, preferring to see my emotions and my expression of them in a-kinda-witty-but-very-sarcastic kind of way. Brain me frequently sees my actions from a cynical, sarcastic but realistic bastard POV.

E.g: Mum just scolded me for -something- and I'll be super pissed and ranting it out to a friend in MSN

While I'm busy being very annoyed, flustered and appearing generally unhappy (in my mind) and telling my friend about it, I am aware of what I am feeling, what I am doing, my friend's possible reaction to what I'm saying, my physiological state (I would usually be very calm while typing it on the keyboard, unless it's a major disaster like a big fight with my mum or something) and at the same time, brain me will be sarcastically telling me "Like seriously, quit being so melodramatic already, you know you're doing this for the lulz and the possible attention you can get from your friend. Your heart rate isn't even high and you're doing this because you can elicit that response from your friend which he always gives you."

Odd thing is that brain me is appearing the same time emotional me is appearing- truly, I kid you not about the anger, but the expression of it can be controlled; just that I choose to share it in my somewhat ostentatious performance of anguish (or whatever melodramatic insult you can think of)


Hey, actually I amuse myself quite often with my own antics. LMAO.

Ah damn, see, I'm doing that whole lul-she's-acting-funny-again-haha thing zzz =_=

Anyway if I'm emotionally intelligent, why do I have problems coping with my own self? I know what emotional intelligence is, but it stops for me the moment it comes to other people vs myself. I will always put myself first (I don't know if this is psychological, hormonal, characteristical or whatever. I just do and I don't really -like- it).

What you've described is probably common to a lot of NT types, I agree, but it sounds like you are experiencing a poor integration of feelings and or more intense urges / aspects of persona into your external life. I think that it's possible that you are an extrovert who has used introversion and withdrawal as a coping mechanism. It could also be possible that the seperations were created to allow your mind, experiencing an excesses of unemployed mental energy, some outlets to play around with all of this mental power. I have experienced similar tendencies, and have to say that finding external facets can help give outlets to the various channels of your mind.

Yes, hmm, quite possible, quite possible!! I like your explanation; perhaps that is why I am not very sure of my introversion/extroversion aspect? I talk a lot. I go on and on and on and on and usually people have to tell me to shut up. But I clam up when people close to me want to know about how I really feel. I will tell when I want to tell; usually when it's come to a point where the pain is really intense and I am on the brink of something dangerous and when I'm scared I would lose my grip on reality. I tend to keep thoughts and things to myself and interest myself with either entertaining others with my antics or doing my own things. I have never told anyone about my true self yet; rather, I tel different people about different sides of me; people who I think would be able to present an alternate viewpoint that I need my theory checked against. But what's really bugging me, I find there's no point telling people because i) I've gone through it in my head, ii) I'm DAMN LAZY to have to go through it again and iii) I'm not quite comfortable with people knowing the extent of the thoughts in my head. They can be rather... disturbing. It's not really nice to have conservative relatives think you're a potential nutcase. I hate it when people judge others or put labels on them. I'm scared of being alienated by people; I'd rather remove myself first before people remove me. Probably because I've been rejected from company when I was younger and it's traumatizing till now, and that's my defence mechanism.

-shrugs-

Clinically wise, have you thought about seeing a counselor who works with gifted adults, or trying more challenging course matter? I experience the instigation tendencies / real life trolling urge when I'm around people who don't stimulate my Ne/Ti. You might want to take an IQ test, or find some challenging projects that can put your intensity to good use. I think that the depression and high polarities you're experiencing are a result of a powerful engine (your brain) that hasn't had laps around the track (intense mental stimulation) in a long while.

Uhm, I don't think I'm -that- gifted. I think I'm just... very powerful but uncontrollable. Like Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix. I'm seeing a counsellor/psychiatrist for my depression soon cos I finally gave up fighting that inner battle as it's interfering with my life. I can't work with my mind's state, so, yeah.

I've taken IQ tests before online but they aren't really accurate, especially when I've scored from 127 to 159. Something must be wrong somewhere, and I don't like taking IQ tests cos I have to think that way. I prefer doing logic grid puzzles or sudoku. They give me an ego boost without having to think too much.

I know, I know, I'm lazy. I don't know -why- I'm lazy, though. I just can't fricking be -arsed- to do -anything- that requires effort. GAHAOFHAOFJOADJADJ.

The intensity you described seem to be coming from two places- my feeling/emotion and my mind. Put together, it's kinda like a powerful force that somewhat grants me temporary invincibility status.

There are periods of time where, caught up really deep in something, I can focus on it with so much intensity that I forget what goes on around me. But most of the time, I'm either too lazy or too distracted. I can never sit still and I figdet a lot. My mind tends to always be working, but sadly, not working on productive things.

And before you say it, yes, I know, I think I might have ADD or ADHD. My mum DID mention about having ADHD when I was younger but she can't remember nor will she specify the facts.

If I am ADD, then it kind of solves the whole problem of figuring out what the godamned heck I am, but then it also opens a whole new can of worms because that would be having one more problem on my plate.

And I don't have the money or the will to keep fighting againtst myself and my faults and this is why I say I hate myself.

If I weren't alive, I wouldn't be bringing people so much trouble. I am somewhat like Spock- 'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' (but selfish also because my needs > the needs of another)

Sigh.

 

[walfin]

Sigh. Better alive than dead, I say. You don't know how much use you are alive (*evil cackle*).

You know how awesome you are, it's just...gauche to admit it.

And before you say it, yes, I know, I think I might have ADD or ADHD. My mum DID mention about having ADHD when I was younger but she can't remember nor will she specify the facts.

Careful there with the self diagnosis...always remember confirmation bias.

Generally, if you're functional (I'm assuming you are), it's not serious enough to be considered a disorder.

In any case you just sound like you've got a case of INTPDownInTheDumps disease.

And I don't have the money or the will to keep fighting againtst myself and my faults and this is why I say I hate myself.

And I don't see how money is a major problem here, unless you mean you need it to finance therapy (the utility of which I would doubt).

 

[Enne]

Sigh. Better alive than dead, I say. You don't know how much use you are alive (*evil cackle*).

You know how awesome you are, it's just...gauche to admit it.


Careful there with the self diagnosis...always remember confirmation bias.

Generally, if you're functional (I'm assuming you are), it's not serious enough to be considered a disorder.

In any case you just sound like you've got a case of INTPDownInTheDumps disease.



And I don't see how money is a major problem here, unless you mean you need it to finance therapy (the utility of which I would doubt).

LOL Downinthedumps! ^^ I don't suspect ADD; I think that a lot of people who are capable of sustained mental stimulation / emotional intensity are mislabeled with the disorder. I think you should disregard that as a possibility, even if it was one when you were a kid (seems common for kids of our generation). I don't necessarily think that you need to attribute an unusual mental state / ability or w/e as a disease. Without starting a major debate, I find it helpful to note that public schools are designed to produce employees, not scholars.

If depression is your biggest problem, why not consider, what, if added or subtracted to your life would help you feel better? What do YOU think you need?

 

[LucielaMinerva]

Haha walfin, nay, I beg to differ. Yes, I can quite possibly benefit people... in some productive way when it comes to generating ideas, writing stuff, giving advice... but seriously, if I can do that, there are hundreds of other people who can do the same thing without bringing the same shit I do to the people around me. So what's the point of me being here anyway... And it's not only just me and my perception of myself towards people- it's me and how I view myself. I'm not the best. I'm not the most intelligent. I'm not the most talented. I'm not the most pretty. I'm not the best at anything I do. Someone is always better than me. Might as well I don't put in effort to do anything because I will never be able to reach that state of high I covet. And I know it's impossible, and I should be taking it in my stride, but I just cannot.

I'm pretty sure it's not confirmation bias. I was unaware of my condition when I googled my symptoms. There was this checklist on this site and I filled that up before reading on, and when I DID read on, it all just fit in. I'm always known as the scatterbrained, forgetful one who zones out during conversations with people. It's not uncommon for me to be talking to a bunch of people and then suddenly exclaiming about how green and roll-worthy the lawn is. It's not because I don't want to listen to the convo, it's just that I cannot concentrate on one thing at a time and my eyes and mind is always roving around, looking for things. And I am grateful that my friends do not view me as rude or disruptive to their conversation and accepted me for what I am.

This, however, I cannot say the same for my work. I had to request for a shift in duties in my previous position as an operations executive because, clearly, I am NOT a detail-oriented person. I kept forgetting dates, names, important people and events, and so many things that the stress got to me because I kept screwing up with the schedules. I couldn't perform and I knew it. And the duties piled up and I procrastinated because I was trying to escape. That's what I always do. Escape. And I am quite ashamed to say it, but it was the same in school- forgetting to bring homework (not because I didn't do, but it completely slipped my mind) often and getting punished pretty often for it as well. It's been a trademark of me since young, and that's one reason why I hate my childhood, cause, people always have expectations of me to follow up on things and REMEMBER things, like, how NORMAL people like my damned cousin can. I just cannot live up to their "NORMAL" expectations, you tell me how to not feel horrible about myself? Not only that, I constantly got derided for my lack of ability to do simple things, like buying the right items from the grocery store. Or how much more school fees I needed to pay. It's helluva horrible when your whole damned life is a damn blur. You don't remember -ANYTHING- and it's sad that people can remember whole events from childhood to adulthood, but you can probably only remember less than 10 events. People can study for an hour; I will do one math sum for 5 minutes and then I'll go do something random like, make a cup of tea or something. ALWAYS. THE. SAME. PATTERN. I don't even know how I got through primary and secondary school. seriously.

So yes, do I think I have ADD? I definitely know I am not normal, concentration wise. ADD is the nearest explanation I can get to explain my lack of performance where it is necessary.

Actually I'm going to therapy only because I hope I'd get some valium or some damned happy pills to keep me from relapsing into despair. Have you ever felt despair? It's like a darn dementor. It stares at you and keeps sucking the happiness out of you. I wouldn't mind being emotionless. Really. It's cool. Calming. I love it. But I HATE sadness. It's depressing, it sucks your mood out of you, you don't feel like doing -ANYTHING- you feel like SHIT, you feel like you can just walk out on the road and wonder how it feels like to have a truck run over you. Would your head explode? What would the impact of the truck be? Would your limbs still be attached to your body? How much mess would I be making? Would I traumatise people on their way to work?

So many things to think of, even for death. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[LucielaMinerva]

If depression is your biggest problem, why not consider, what, if added or subtracted to your life would help you feel better? What do YOU think you need?

I honestly don't know.

Acceptance, maybe.

Motivation from people to tell me, hey, you're doing a great job. Continue there. Need any help? I'm here for you. You can do it. I know you can.

AND MEAN IT. Not saying it for the sake of that motivational shit crap that people make money out of. Have I mentioned I'm a skeptic?

I need to feel wanted, important, useful. With all the shit I throw at myself, I don't know if anyone out there would even want to bother to negate the negativities I put myself through. Why should THEY care? It's MY problem, not theirs.

And I can't tell this to my parents because they would probably think I'm being dramatic and probably laugh at me because for all the "intelligence" I show to them when I disagree with them, I can't even handle my own brain.

HA HA HA. Fancy that.

And all these just adds to the stress even more.

Life is horrible when all you have is yourself, cheering you on. It gets significantly more intolerable when friends around you fight with you and refuse to talk to you, or the people you live with and love bear the brunt of your emotional outbursts.

You just feel like you want to remove yourself, and quickly too, before you make the lives of others a bigger burden.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I relate to much of the OP substantially. You remind me of how I used to be. The difference would be that although I had the detached observing part of me watching me do the more emotional stuff, that detached observing part was unable to stop it. It would say, "Hey, dipshit! Why the hell are you doing that? You are acting like an ass and screwing up everything in your life and no one likes this you you've become so what is up?" but that stupid emotional side would just keep on going.

I say 'had' because I believe I have more control over it now, although I am still a little frightened that that other side will leap out one of these days and mess up everything I've worked so hard to heal.

But I'm also considered bipolar so who knows how much that has to do with it. It does seem that if a person has a harder time expressing themselves emotionally (like an INTP) they are more likely to explode in a very immature fashion, which seems to be how being bipolar is.

You could be doing all of this to get attention, but not in the way you think. It could be a cry for help because you don't know how to deal with it on your own. And you tend to punish yourself with self-hate because everyone else seems to deal with these things just fine so what's your problem? And you're supposed to be so smart, while they're kind of dumb. How can this all be so complicated for you? So you must be doing it on purpose, just to get attention.

(That's how it was for me anyway.)

 

[Latro]

Personal perception of me: there's a mind, there's a body, there's an emotional set, and then there's a self. The self, per se, is nonexistent; it merely takes in data from its three counterparts and then makes decisions based on those (and then of course tells them what to do). However, with this distinction, situations where I am experiencing and simultaneously observing an emotion can happen. So no, I don't think you're extremely weird, though I don't know if this is typical for an INTP.

 

[echoplex]

So do you INTPs share this same ability (not my life story, just the two minds) or is it just me being weird?

I actually think you might be an ENTP instead, although I could see INTPs sharing the same ability. And trust me, we're all "being weird"...

But yeah, most of your post sounds just like the ramblings of my Ne! ENTPs are Ne dominant, but still have Ti as their auxiliary. Plus, their Fe is not as inferior as the INTP's Fe is. This might explain your high emotionality.

I also think NTs in general are prone to describe such a thought process. We tend to keep our emotions under control, but humans are emotional creatures so they're bound to show up eventually no matter who. I liken it to a faucet that's been held back. When the water finally comes out, it does so with a force much greater than a calm, steady flow (which may describe F types better).

Basically, with NTs it's all or nothing.

 

[walfin]

Lucy, you write lucidly. You are not mad.

 

[meshram.alok]

^ Precisely.

I think the cause of concern is your Ti dominance. It's an INTP trait to "Watch over yourself" at all times from a removed perspective, as if you are a subject of your own observation. When you get so detached, your emotions tend to be an object of study - you're bound to have emotions, say if you expect a lot out of yourself but don't live up to it - and you want to control them.

This results in you trying to bury those feelings, and all that does is intensify them as time passes. When you cannot handle them any longer, you burst into extreme emotions.

Is this description accurate enough?
The answer: Try focusing more on your Fe. Even if it feels illogical to be angry or sad at something, express the emotion as early as possible. (I do this by reaching out to a friend, or playing music or writing down a story). It is important to not repress emotions or try to avoid them. It's a trade-off: either you lower your standards and expect less from yourself and thus not have strong emotions on failing, or you keep your standards and expectations high and learn to accept failure and defeat as part of the process to learn and thus divert your emotions to something else.

 

[LucielaMinerva]

Ok Hi all again... sorry for the long hiatus. Been busy trying to sort my life out, but I feel obliged to share what I've been up to because it is only fair that way as you have shared your own stories and dished out advice. For that, I am very appreciative and wish to thank you for your time spent on someone you don't know.

Brain, I think you're nearest to understanding what I'm going through as you have been through it, and it was kinda shocking to realise that, but now I understand why. During my hiatus, I went to see a psychiatrist (state one) for depression (self-diagnosed), but it turns out I am NOT suffering from clinical depression, but the same as you, bipolarity. I'm currently on Sodium valproate to try to stabilize my moods, but it's doing squat for the depressive moods. That explains why we both have that understanding there; seems like it's the psychotic disorder that's screwing ourselves up, at least to a certain extent. Are you on any meds now? As you mentioned, it could be a cry for help. Actually that was one of my theories I came up with when I was younger, but not to the depth of what you mentioned- I WAS aware that I was crying out for help because it seemed that no one understood me and the raging emotions I felt inside, especially not my family and I'm not someone who shares her deep feelings readily, and it was just so frustrating to always be misunderstood. I may share a lot of things, but only if I feel it is necessary for my betterment; I share it so someone can understand me a little bit deeper and see if he/she has another perspective as I've exhausted all my theories. I know I am not perfect and people definitely will give me a different perspective on the issue and with that knowledge, I will be better able to make a decision. I like to be thorough with my decisions and explore all possibilities. Leave no stone unturned, they say. I must thank my Ne/Ti to make up for the lack of a Fe/Se (or i, whatever). I guess God is fair in that sense (if you believe in one); everyone is given one aspect or another to make up for the lack of it in another area. But we can go further by harnessing our resources to polish the other area to achieve a desirable balance. Hmm.

Latro, hmm, in psychology terms (yes, I researched on this area ._.), it's called detachment, or, disassociation. Usually in extremes it produces dissociative disorders, part of personality disorders, but unless it affects my life and social relationships, I don't think it's a disorder, but a personality trait?

Echoplex, thank you for your insight! It was refreshing to see an alternative opinion. It is very much valued, and it has been added to my inventory of information. Actually I thought about it, but with new data on hand, I think I may very much still be an INTP. I think psychologically and physically, my psychiatric condition has been in conflict with my personality, thereby driving me to become someone of extremes and making it very hard to diagnose my personality. But a check with my mother revealed that I was (and still am) an introverted child, preferring to keep things to myself than share with people. Or at least, people whom I think do not understand. So that settles the first part, and the feeling part, I always thought that emotional people are not Thinking preference people, but I realised that being very emotional or having extreme moodswings were not exactly a normal criteria in the first place, and it's more of a psychological condition than a personality one. When I'm not in my depressive (emo) or angry states, I'm pretty much a tabula rasa, processing things like a computer, on top of my ability to see things in a fragmented way: emotions (1), rationality (2), self (3). Which is why sometimes I question if I am human or not. I also posit that the reason why I only can remember sad times of my childhood is because I wasn't really that "active" in a sense due to my introverted nature back then. I guess I became a little more extroverted when I gained a little more self confidence from the online community, which was more accepting of my ways than people in real life. Also, my hypersensitvity- I am a HSP (also diagnosed by my child psych when I was young) explains why I can be very sensitive about things sometimes, but this sensitvity is probably a result of my very sensitive and highly functional Ne and nervous system- when I see people cry or lose someone close to them, I can feel their pain (I am not kidding, it hits me and my heart literally feels painful) and I will cry as well. I've been this way since young, and I also am sensitive to what people say about me. I also am a chronic allergy sufferer, chronic sinusitis sufferer and am sensitive to strong sounds, lights and smells. But over the years, I've toughened myself up and trained myself physically to withstand pain. I still cannot stand loud sounds, I will go mad!However, when it comes to mostly emotional things that will get Fe/Ne people all worked up and emotional, I cannot fathom why they do that. I think I am very affected when I experience things I can understand- I understand pain and I understand how people are going through it, and I feel their pain, so much so that it manifests itself physically in me. But it just stops at people crying over losing a loved one, other things I have to try to understand first and then I process if it is err... painful enough.

Or something. Did I make sense there o_o"

Walfin... OMG YOU CHEEKY BUGGER!!!!!!! >: (

haha! that made me smile (again) lol.


Meshram.alok:

Oh shi-, this is gold.

I think the cause of concern is your Ti dominance. It's an INTP trait to "Watch over yourself" at all times from a removed perspective, as if you are a subject of your own observation. When you get so detached, your emotions tend to be an object of study - you're bound to have emotions, say if you expect a lot out of yourself but don't live up to it - and you want to control them.

Ti dominance and the INTP tendency to make our emotions "the object of our own observation". This is IT! (omg, anagram pun!) My emotions become the object of my own observation; sometimes it's like being a scientist and running an experiment, and MAYBE I just want to let the emotions flow to see what would happen after that. Like an, "oooh what does THIS button do?" kinda of feeling. And then see how other people react to it.

This results in you trying to bury those feelings, and all that does is intensify them as time passes. When you cannot handle them any longer, you burst into extreme emotions.

Well, you are right. I cannot handle my emotions because I don't know. As in, I don't know how to. When I burst out in anger, it's spontaneous. It's automatic. When I am affected by what someone says, I feel hurt because my ego has been bruised or they serve to further confirm the words of what other people say and therefore, there must be some truth to their words, then I feel miserable, and I know there are some things about me that isn't too bad but seems like it's not enough, and you know, it's saddening. And I don't like feeling sad (who does?) so I just try to push it far far away, run away from it or let it go because I don't know how to handle it. I think I'm very emotionally stupid when it comes to my own self-realization.

The answer: Try focusing more on your Fe. Even if it feels illogical to be angry or sad at something, express the emotion as early as possible. (I do this by reaching out to a friend, or playing music or writing down a story). It is important to not repress emotions or try to avoid them. It's a trade-off: either you lower your standards and expect less from yourself and thus not have strong emotions on failing, or you keep your standards and expectations high and learn to accept failure and defeat as part of the process to learn and thus divert your emotions to something else.

I do that for minor things, but it's the major things and the self loathing that grips me and won't let go. I don't know how to deal with the internal issues. I'm a problem solver person and while I express myself through poetry, it doesn't solve the problem. I am helpless to solve the problem because I cannot and that's why I subconsciously and automatically tell myself not to bother and just let it simmer away on its own. I turn into a self-ignorant person...

I think it is essential to set high standards on one-self, but only if it helps to motivate that person. The catch is that I haev a problem with the learning to accept failure part, so I have to adjust that part. Mostly I think it stems from pride. I don't know how to get rid of pride. I also think it may be psychological because of a traumatic childhood ridded with people who tell me I can do something one moment and that I am useless the next. I strongly believe it's the childhood that made me screwed, and I have a hellish job of trying to interpret what went wrong and to rectify it.

It is a long journey, but I guess I am put on this Earth for a reason. Some reason anyway.

Sigh.

Thank you all once again for your inputs. You have shared with me great insight and knowledge on how to deal with myself, when funnily enough, this was never meant to be a rant or self understanding thread, but more like 'does anyone else have the same thing i have'. lol.

I would give you all cookies if I could! >.<

 

[Rain]

Wondering if it's me with a psychological problem and quite plausibly having psychopathic tendencies or if it's normal amongst INTPs (or any other type, for that matter).

You see, I'm a somewhat emotional person. Well actually I'm just highly sensitive- physically, emotionally, audibly and immune system wise (-_-") and I believe it's a combination of my physiological build up (hormone wise- I actually suspect I have a hormonal problem that's interfering with my moods and I'm quite bipolar) and my environment. My mum is quite possibly an ENFP (or an ENFJ) while my dad's quite possibly an ISTP.

So anyway I had a shitty childhood (internally, not so much externally, although I did get beat up often but it's cause I was always rebellious to my parents :X) and I had very little friends when I was young. People don't really understand me and/or get me. It's not that I didn't want friends. Just that people didn't really talk much to me and not many shared my interests of reading and gaming back then.

But in any case, I went through several bouts of depression in my child/teenagehood and it's got to a stage in adulthood where now, being better equipped with knowledge, I actually am seeking help for my depression. My doctor said I tend to keep things in my head too much that when it explodes, shit happens. (I used to cut myself until my mum found out by barging into my room. Now I don't dare anymore and just keep it inside me even more.)

Most of the time I'm emotionless, just enjoying my games, reading or music. If I didn't have any of those, I would be on msn, chatting with my friends or arguing away in some forum.

When I'm NOT emotionless, or when something tragedic strikes me, like extreme sadness or anger, I notice that I am able to feel the extremities of said emotions, BUT I have this part of me in my head that's there, in the background, noting what is happening, monitoring my physiological responses (increased heart rate, temperature, chills, etc), and then analysing the cause of the outburst, then coming up with whole reports of the cause, what I am doing and what I should be doing next.

Now I find that really weird. It's like I have two minds (ergo, thread title)- one in my heart and one in my head, and both functioning at the same time and depending on situation, I usually express my emotional self to those I think I can get away with.

I think I'm just being very attention seeking because if I wanted to, I could forget issues and not be very emotional. I do not tell people when I am having my real bouts of depression. I just walk away to one corner and cut contact with people and live through it by myself. I honestly have no idea how long more I can cope with this. It's just too much for my mind and it's showing in my health too. I get sick very often, and way too easily. My immunity drops when I'm under stress.

I am someone who is very hot tempered- either it's genetic (my mum is like that) or it's environmental (copied from my mum's behaviour) and extremely impatient.

But over the years, I've trained myself to be more patient and it's yielded results.

Other than my fiery temperament and impatience, I appear pretty much "calm" or detached most of the time (in real life). I act so well in real life that my colleagues are incredulous that I need anger management, lol. What I know for a fact is that I CAN act extremely well. That way, I will show a side that would yield me the best results to the company I'm with. Somewhat stealthy and wily, but that's me.

My friends think I'm extremely emotional online (esp. via msn/facebook), because I tend to be very expressive of my anger/disdain often, but what they don't really know is that although I've typed something really harsh, I'm actually calmly staring at my screen and probably listening to some music. ROFL.

Sometimes I troll online when I'm having PMS. LOL. My main targets would be idiots who say stupid things.

Either I'm unconsciously seeking attention and dramatizing or there's something really wrong with me.

Would it not be for my religion and the development of my "feeling" side by my mum, I think I would be a selfish bitch who would not hesitate to kill in cold blood. I do acknowledge that I tend to have psychotic tendencies, and sometimes the thought of it sends a chill through my spine.

Fancy that, being afraid of myself.

I am glad I have direction and guidance in life, and sad for those like me who do not. I understand what it feels like.

So do you INTP's share this same ability (not my life story, just the two minds) or is it just me being weird?

The extremes of emotion you describe are a bit far for me, but I have similar behavioral tendencies. In rl as well as on the net I am usually INTJ in my actions to a point (unintentionally) , however, I sometimes revert to ENFJ behavioral patterns and personality switching. Odd, but genuine in both.

 

[Enne]

Hmmm .. I experience something somewhat similar with an ENTP<>ENFP 'balance'. I feel that at times I require a great deal of private time to reorder and evaluate my Ti, or 'INTP' time I guess. There are times when I wish more attention / recognition was given to the possibility of being an 'A'NTP, though I realize that extroverted, perceiving intuitives (ENXP) are naturally a bit more reserved than the rest of the breed.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

warning: not for the squeamish

sorry, I read the first couple lines and skipped everything else....typical for a lot of us lol. I am very hypersensitive. I developed skin problems about 3 years ago and doctors have been able to give me no explanation other than a contact dermatitis. Tried to get allergy tested but insurance wouldn't cover it and they gave me an antibiotic. WTF. I suspect bedbugs but can't afford a new mattress. Even got paranoid about morgellon's and nano-parasites for awhile. I've just learned to deal with it. Humidity is murder to my skin now but thankfully the itching from hell stopped a couple years ago. What I experience now is bad enough though. I would have killed myself by now if I had to deal with the level of itching I had before for more than a few months. Literally I was digging my arm on velcro multiple times a day, no regard for how bad it looked or bled. I remember one summer when I was 4 I got super itchy a lot, and I have always been really bothered by the little bit of cloth that bunches up by the pinky/big toe in socks. I'm not even gonna get into emotional sensitivity since I have the ability to keep my emotions/actions separate for the most part. Lest just say if I had the emotional sensitivity with different personality type people would be dead/severely injured and I would be either dead or in jail as well.