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A History of INTP

flow

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So my dad retook the myers-briggs test today, and as I suspected he too is an INTP. But interestingly enough, he comes from a family of 7 (2 sisters 4 brothers), and I suspect one or two of his brothers are INTPs as well, or at least introverted and intuitive. And, I think my grandpa is also an INTP. Obviously personality is genetic, and now I can only wonder what the dominant and recessive traits are. Most of my uncles are introverts, while amongst my cousins most are actually extroverted, though we're all intuitive and most of us are intuitive thinkers (intellectuals). Is intuition a dominant trait? Both my sister and myself are intuitive, though my mom is not. Hmmm.... just kind of thinking out loud.
 

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Obviously personality is genetic

That's a very bold and overgeneralize statement Flow. If your father and grandfather are INTPs that could just as easily point to environmental factors over genetic ones. For example your Grandfather raised your Father and greatly influenced his behavior with his personality. Could not your Father have done the same to you?

and now I can only wonder what the dominant and recessive traits are. Is intuition a dominant trait?

If personality is genetic, I doubt the individual aspects of it could be singled down to to single sets of genes. If personality was a based on simple dominant vs recessive trait dichotomies, people would have figured it out years ago. Then there is the fact that the MBTI was not developed in the scientific fashion that genetics has been. They may find certain similarities, but there is no way something as vague as the MBTI could directly equate into Genetics.

Also to relate it back to the real world, both my parents are SJs yet all their kids are strong Ns. Both my parents would have to be carriers of the recessive N trait, so for the children it would be possible, but unlikely for them to have N traits (so 3 N children is pushing the statistics).

Also looking at world only one out of every four people is an N. This would suggest that N is recessive. (assuming that personality traits are genetic and are determined by a single allele)
 

flow

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To me, personality just can't be environmental. Ask any parent, their kids came out with their own personalities already established.
 

Anthile

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I did some research about this and I think that the S/N and F/T priority are inherent while I/E and P/J seem more environmental to me.
 

flow

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I could get with that! I've kind of thought that my perceiving and even introvertedness had a lot to do with my sister, she was an ENTJ. I naturally argued with her everyday, we never really agreed on anything. :evil:
 

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To me, personality just can't be environmental. Ask any parent, their kids came out with their own personalities already established.

Parents are subjective. Have you considered the possibility that it's a combination of nature vs nurture?
 

flow

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Okay fair enough! I'm just arguing at least PART of your personality was there from the beginning of consciousness. And as Anthile has argued, it certainly makes sense that intuition/sensing and feeling/thought are the kinds of personality differences that seem established from day one.
 

travelnjones

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Family its more a driver of divergence in personality. Roles like focus, peace maker and whatever are needed to be filled. Society is more a driver of sameness, ie American society is good at making Americans.
 

Dormouse

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While your personality in it's most raw form is purely genetic, your upbringing is what outfits you with values and goals and provides you with direction in life.
At least that's how I see it. While your inherited traits will set your course and determine how well you naviguate through life, the values instilled in you by your society and parents are what help you choose your final destination.
 

Beat Mango

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I'm with you flow - nature all the way baby. Nurture plays a big part part, sure (if you don't believe me just read about wolfboy or the girl who was locked inside a room until the age of 15...), but only within the bounds of what has already been determined through genetics.
 

Latro

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I did some research about this and I think that the S/N and F/T priority are inherent while I/E and P/J seem more environmental to me.
Interesting. To me F/T seems like it probably has at least some cultural involvement; IMO this explains why females in western culture are statistically about 70% F and 30% T, while males are 70% T and 30% F. (Or at least they test this way. Doesn't necessarily mean the tests are always right).

With very little support I sort of agree on N/S being inherent; somehow N/S, to me, seems like a "building block" that is needed for anything else to work out. Thought patterns, feeling patterns, etc. all have to derive, eventually, from how we take in information, which in the end is N/S; if that isn't inherent, then where does it come from?

I/E is at least partly "environmental" IMO as well; personally I think I could have turned out ENTP (albeit never ENTJ, despite being INTx now) if I hadn't had social issues early in life.

P/J I have no idea; I'm a bad person to reference for P/J though because I still don't entirely understand my own P/J axis.
 

Zero

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Hmn, I think it's interesting that most INTPs/INTJs don't seem to have mothers with similar traits. Most of the people in my family are sensors. History wise, it's kind of blotchy. I know my aunts and uncles, but when it comes to my grandparents ... well there are half siblings and adoptions so it's hard to trace back. On my mother's side there seems to be a theme of extroversion, while I would say my father's side is introverted. N/S and F/T seems random in my family.

I get along with ENTJs myself. My mother is likely an ESTP. I sometimes think she might be an F type, but because of her circumstance (growing up and all) she's taken on an ESTP persona.

I have to note that with my family, my extended family, that each family seems to have a theme the children follow, but is set by the parents. My parents never firmly directed us, so it would see we end up without a sense of direction. I'm not sure if that's somewhat our father's influence. It seems like in the other families the fathers were more involved on a disciplinary and influence level.

In a family with the most disciplinary/extroverted father the kids pretty much walk a straight line. There's one oddity in the third family. The parents are both disciplinary and introverted, but their eldest is extroverted and lively. Value wise, he's following the same path. In that family there are also adopted children who are notably different from the parents as well.
 

itarilde

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Actually, my whole family is N (great, I know ;)), but I'm not sure if I'm intuitive because it's genetic, or because of the enviroment I grew up in.

I did some research about this and I think that the S/N and F/T priority are inherent while I/E and P/J seem more environmental to me.
That's interesting, although I'm a perceiver with judging parents :)
 

Da Blob

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I think the jury is still out on whether genetics can actually cause specific behaviors in humans. There is no doubt that genetic predisposition abound, however, the environment exerts such a powerful force in conditioning individuals, that I doubt that personality could ever be predicted from an examinations of genotypes. We choose to repeat behaviors that have produced pleasure from the environment and avoid repeating behaviors that have produced pain (mistakes?) from the environment.
That being said and not meaning to stir controversy, it appears from my POV that the 'lower' species operate from a ESF_ frame of reference and it is only humans that have the capacity to be INT_ . That means to me that it is only INT_s that have the ability not to be the slaves of the external environment, but are able to "step back' cognitively and examine changes in the environment before responding to them. It needs to be remembered that the personality scales are just that. Personality is not a black or white differentiation, but a scale of varying shades of gray. I mean Extroverts occasionally are Introverts, Sensors occasionally use Intuition, Thinkers occasionally Feel and Perceivers occasionally Judge and vice versa of course...
 
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well, me (INXP) and my brother (EXFP, not sure S or N) are polar opposites, in any way imaginable (even in birth, i was 2 weeks late and he was 2 weeks early). my dad maybe an ISTP/ISTJ and my mother may well be an INFP

my uncle i think is INTJ, auntie...i am unsure (INTJ too possibly), cousin i think ENTP - these are on my fathers side. mother side i barely know. but grandad Mothers side i think is ESTJ and grandma i am unsure of.


only tentative links here


but, i have a theory that maybe the actual birth of a child can go a long way developing personality.
did any of you have any weird features at brth? c-section? premature or late?

i was born late, with a twisted face, the skin for a sixth finger and a clubbed foot. i actually look really good bearing these in mind (i am physically normal minus spot on finger)

just wonderin'
 

Beat Mango

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I think the jury is still out on whether genetics can actually cause specific behaviors in humans. There is no doubt that genetic predisposition abound, however, the environment exerts such a powerful force in conditioning individuals, that I doubt that personality could ever be predicted from an examinations of genotypes. We choose to repeat behaviors that have produced pleasure from the environment and avoid repeating behaviors that have produced pain (mistakes?) from the environment.
That being said and not meaning to stir controversy, it appears from my POV that the 'lower' species operate from a ESF_ frame of reference and it is only humans that have the capacity to be INT_ . That means to me that it is only INT_s that have the ability not to be the slaves of the external environment, but are able to "step back' cognitively and examine changes in the environment before responding to them. It needs to be remembered that the personality scales are just that. Personality is not a black or white differentiation, but a scale of varying shades of gray. I mean Extroverts occasionally are Introverts, Sensors occasionally use Intuition, Thinkers occasionally Feel and Perceivers occasionally Judge and vice versa of course...

I'm just talking from what I've observed. Have you really noticed anyone have their personality change significantly from when they were younger? It seems very very stable to me, which suggests the influence of nature. I'm not a parent but I've watched a few kids grow up, and you can see the seeds of their adult personality in their childhood behaviour.
 

Da Blob

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I'm just talking from what I've observed. Have you really noticed anyone have their personality change significantly from when they were younger? It seems very very stable to me, which suggests the influence of nature. I'm not a parent but I've watched a few kids grow up, and you can see the seeds of their adult personality in their childhood behaviour.
Your observations are likely correct, but since a great deal of personality is formed in the first two years of life, it would be difficult to ascertain the cause (nature or nurture). The study of personality in infants has shown that 'temperament' does have a genetic link. Temperamental babies have even been noticed before their births.
 

echoplex

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I have read that the older the mother, the more likely the child will be introverted. There does seem to be a correlation. I've also read that higher testosterone correlates with a preference for Thinking. But then someone could easily argue that males are just conditioned to be Ts, and females Fs.

The thing is, even if our type is totally inborn, that doesn't mean it will necessarily be obvious to anyone. Typing others can be hard unless you know them really well, because we all put on masks for the world and I don't think we always behave the way we'd most like to, even in relatively comfortable environments.

Perhaps it could be said that we have two personalities. Our preferred one, which would be our MBTI; and our adapted one, which might just be a slight alteration of the preferred one, that we show to the world.

Though, I tend to think that all four "letters" are determined by a combination of both nature and environment. It's just a question of how they are weighted. I think S/N and T/F lean towards nature, and J/P towards environment. E/I seems to close to call, maybe 50/50. Either way, I doubt any fundamental changes take place in personality preferences after about age 2 or 3.
 

Zero

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I think when it comes down to it, we have to consider where the personality comes from and is stored in our body.

We obviously think the brain right off the bat, but there are reports of people changing their behaviour (and personality) due to a heart transplant (and sometimes other transplants).

If we consider that personality is a part of the brain, what parts? From a neurological stand point we can say that S/N is a neurological function. It would seen the connection between the Left hemisphere would be Sensing and the Right N. That would make sense since the left brain is detail oriented and the right brain is conceptual. T/F however, would likely have to do with the vertical axis of the brain, despite what others might have you believe. I believe that would mean the difference between using the base of the brain as opposed to the cerebral cortex and/or frontal lobe dominantly for decisions.

But the brain develops because of genetics and because of interaction with the exterior world.

This suggests that the brain is dynamic and environmentally influenced. It's important for us to have external stimulation to develop. Internally we have hormones and such that aren't under our control. The fact that some have claimed to take on slightly different personalities due to organ transplants kind of makes me wonder about the origin of personality. It doesn't seem like there's a lot of study when it comes to other organs and their affect on personality. I have no idea how something like that would be done anyhow.

The brain is influenced by external, internal, inborn and learned processes. Therefore, it's likely that personality is affected by environment and genetics.

When it comes down to it's likely that environment has the most influence. The difference in culture has already been mentioned. On a survival scale it makes sense to adapt to the environment as well as you can.

Then we'd have to ask how we cope and that becomes evidence of our personality that aren't changed by enviromental factors. Personality= coping+conditioning?
 

Sapphire Harp

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That being said and not meaning to stir controversy, it appears from my POV that the 'lower' species operate from a ESF_ frame of reference and it is only humans that have the capacity to be INT_ . That means to me that it is only INT_s that have the ability not to be the slaves of the external environment, but are able to "step back' cognitively and examine changes in the environment before responding to them.
Yet, on the other hand... Only humans have so thoroughly dominated our environment enough to keep our runts, stragglers, and oddballs in the game... (in the demanding sense of nature / competition...)

Personally, when I think of the nomadic tribes existence our species must have had at first, I feel that a lot of INTP traits would have been a liability (particularly the insecurities...) - while now many can be something of an advantage... or more precisely, an alternative approach to things which is simply rarer, and more valuable for it.

I think it's possible to view it either way, but neither framing of the INTX difference really seem certainly correct to me...

 

itarilde

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I have read that the older the mother, the more likely the child will be introverted. There does seem to be a correlation.
Could you post a link? I'm curious about it. It's not relevant to me and my siblings (I'm the oldest and the most introverted, while my youngest sibling is a model example of an extrovert), but I'm interested nonetheless.
 

Ermine

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I have read that the older the mother, the more likely the child will be introverted. There does seem to be a correlation.

Really? My mom was pretty young when I was born. She was 23. The main thing I've noticed though with introverts is their tendency to be the oldest/only child in the family. Seems to be a common occurrence.
 

Da Blob

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BTW I just tripped across this I have yet to read it though... It claims to pinpoint genomes for personality if I read the intro correctly...
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/type.html


EDIT: Well Now I have read it...LOL It is actually about I CHING
the author should have used the word generic, but at least, he hyphenated the word 'genetic' to indicated a special usage of the word...
 

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Now we can genetically engineer the personality types of our children! :D

or is that unethical?
 

Cogwulf

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It would make the world a very boring place
 

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On the contrary it could easily make it more interesting. At the very least we can even out the number of Sensors vs iNtuitives. (and maybe get rid of ESFJs completely
smiley_emoticons_twistedevil1.gif
)
 

Anling

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Really? My mom was pretty young when I was born. She was 23. The main thing I've noticed though with introverts is their tendency to be the oldest/only child in the family. Seems to be a common occurrence.

I am the sixth of seven children and easily the most introverted. I believe my parents are ESTJ and INFP. Everyone else is fairly outgoing and loves to talk a lot.
 
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