5w4's and 5w6's v INTP's and INTJ's

[photomn508]

According to a few personality websites (P types website in particular), INTJ's that are 5's usually tend to be 5w4 while INTP's that are 5's usually tend to be 5w6's. My guess of why they would think that way is that the INTJ has introverted intution as a primary function and introverted feeling as a tertiary function. Hence, he is more intuitive than the oblivious and absent-minded INTP 'that's a 5w6.

However, I noticed a contidiction in the research. According to one website, it's the 5w4, not the 5w6, that usually tends to be more absent-minded. Yet it is the INTP is the personality that is commonly known as the absent-minded, oblivious character that is completely unaware of stimuli and his surroundings. (However, INTJ can be absent-minded because extraverted sensing is the least dominant trait.)

1) So, my basic question is this. Is it that monolithic that almost all INTP's are gonna be 5w6's or can there are be INTP's that are 5w4 and INTJ's that are 5w6 (after all, 5w6 are problem solvers. Although INTP's can think a lot and determine the problem, INTJ's usually tend to be people of action)

Empirical research does indicate that Albert Einstein and Rene Descartes were both 5w4 and INTP. I think Steven Hawking is INTJ and 5w6. There might be a few others too.

2) INTP's, who according to one website, are often 'detached.' The most common type that they're cited as is the 5 because they're detached like 5's. Can there also be INTP's of other enneagram types?

Empirical research does have INTPs of other enneagram types. However, the reseach can be flawed on either the Myers-Briggs side, Enneagram side or even both.

 

[Cryss Winters]

Just because somebody is a given MBTI type doesn't mean much more then that. There are quite a few people who are happily ‘mistyped’ because they want to be something that they’re not. MBTI in itself is just a theory; you shouldn't place too much credence in it.

 

[Tunesimah]

I don't know much about the Enneagram. But I'm solidly an INTP and a 9 I do believe.

 

[Yellow]

I don't know much about the Enneagram. But I'm solidly an INTP and a 9 I do believe.

Thats me as well. I have taken a few Enneagram tests and usually come out a 9, which isn't supposed to associate with INTP. I think that these tests may be aiming for different characteristics than the MBTI. Therefore, it would follow that any given MBTI type would likely fall into a range of Enneagram types rather than one particular slot.

 

[Jennywocky]

According to a few personality websites (P types website in particular), INTJ's that are 5's usually tend to be 5w4 while INTP's that are 5's usually tend to be 5w6's. My guess of why they would think that way is that the INTJ has introverted intution as a primary function and introverted feeling as a tertiary function. Hence, he is more intuitive than the oblivious and absent-minded INTP 'that's a 5w6.

However, I noticed a contidiction in the research. According to one website, it's the 5w4, not the 5w6, that usually tends to be more absent-minded. Yet it is the INTP is the personality that is commonly known as the absent-minded, oblivious character that is completely unaware of stimuli and his surroundings. (However, INTJ can be absent-minded because extraverted sensing is the least dominant trait.)

All good inconsistencies to point out.

1) So, my basic question is this. Is it that monolithic that almost all INTP's are gonna be 5w6's or can there are be INTP's that are 5w4 and INTJ's that are 5w6 (after all, 5w6 are problem solvers. Although INTP's can think a lot and determine the problem, INTJ's usually tend to be people of action)

In practice, I actually have found far more INTPs who score as 5w4 and INTJs who score as 5, 5w6, or 1's. If an INTP goes to 5w6, they tend to be sp or (more likely) so type; sx INTPs go towards 5w4. This is what I've seen in forum surveys with lots of INTPs and noted talking to INTJs.

I think the deal here is that the INTJ extroverts and manages outer reality using Te (external logic, to accomplish goals), and this aligns very much with 6 style thinking (re: ISTJ, who also uses Te). Note both run off a combination of Pi + Te functions.

INTP has less in common with ISTJ (ISTJ = Pi + Je, INTP = Ji + Pe) and more in common with -- take a guess! -- INFP, which often shows up as a Four. Both use the Ji + Ne combo.

INxJs as I said also do regularly show up as One's, depending on how strong their moral values are, although INFJs sometimes class themselves as Four and INTJs as Fives. Moral values make sense when Ni is dominant; Ni suggests that life is really about perspectives, and thus we can choose whatever perspective suits our purposes in a situation, and thus Ni people are driven on a moral/personal level rather than from some externally derived set of values... just like One's.

I see these inconsistencies as just inherent differences within the systems, they're not really describing the same things.

Empirical research does indicate that Albert Einstein and Rene Descartes were both 5w4 and INTP. I think Steven Hawking is INTJ and 5w6. There might be a few others too.

Well, you mean "reading," right? Descartes' been dead for centuries. We're just intuiting based on his writings. He was definitely Five.

2) INTP's, who according to one website, are often 'detached.' The most common type that they're cited as is the 5 because they're detached like 5's. Can there also be INTP's of other enneagram types?

Commonly, INTPs show up (most strongly) as Five's OR 5w4's... and then as Nines, if they are passive enough and want to mediate external reality to their lives in ways that keep things stable and at rest.

 

[Enne]

I always thought it was the INTPs who were 4-wings and INTJs were the sixes for reasons similar to what Jenny stated (INTP inward focus, INTJ outward focus). 6s seem more externally / socially focused.

Anyways, I'm not sure about my enneagram type. I've been typed as both a 5 and an 8, which could suggest that I am an unhealthy 8, a healthy 5, or a crazy 4.

 

[Zero]

I kind of researched the Enneagram, but didn't find that it directly correlated with MBTI or that it was a good building block to work with MBTI. So I didn't consider it that important. I think I was a 5w4 or 4w5. I'm not sure why I would get a four. I think one time I got a three. It's been a while since I've taken the test.

I think I've said this before, but I like the Strengths Finder as an addition. Also type subtypes.

 

[wadlez]

Just because somebody is a given MBTI type doesn't mean much more then that. There are quite a few people who are happily ‘mistyped’ because they want to be something that they’re not. MBTI in itself is just a theory; you shouldn't place too much credence in it.

I think you might have to read more about MBTI. Your in a forum based on MBTI created for the purpose of bringing together a certain MBTI type.
I have researched MBTI aswell as jungs work allot and can tell you that it is no small theory not to be taken seriously.

edit, From my experience I have noticed its intj's who tend to dislike MBTI and dont accept there type. I checked cryss winters profile and sure enough she's not sure whether she's intp or intj (INTX)

Not that theres anything wrong with that, just pointing out a consistency with intj's. Good news cryss, your an INTJ, your search is over

 

[del]

1) So, my basic question is this. Is it that monolithic that almost all INTP's are gonna be 5w6's or can there are be INTP's that are 5w4 and INTJ's that are 5w6 (after all, 5w6 are problem solvers. Although INTP's can think a lot and determine the problem, INTJ's usually tend to be people of action)

No. There's no 1-1 correspondence between MBTI and Enneagram. Lots of INTPs are 9s, for example. MBTI measures more personality whereas Enneagram is more about motivations and all that tom foolery.

Empirical research does indicate that Albert Einstein and Rene Descartes were both 5w4 and INTP. I think Steven Hawking is INTJ and 5w6. There might be a few others too.

"Empirical research"? lol.

2) INTP's, who according to one website, are often 'detached.' The most common type that they're cited as is the 5 because they're detached like 5's. Can there also be INTP's of other enneagram types?

Empirical research does have INTPs of other enneagram types. However, the reseach can be flawed on either the Myers-Briggs side, Enneagram side or even both.

Yeah, they can be other types.

 

[Aiss]

I'm an INTP and 5w4, I know of another INTP who's 4w5.

I think typing from MBTI to Enneagram and vice versa is impossible simply because MBTI attempts to grasp preferences of the person, and isn't only concentrated on traits, but also functions. Enneagram, on the other hand, is based on "defence mechanisms", that is, a way of dealing with life (mostly bad things in life) which is formed in childhood. That's why MBTI typing is through questions of preferences and abilities, whereas Enneagram type is found out by examining one's habits. I'd say some MBTI types have more chance of perceiving the world in a ways which refer to some Enneagram types, like INTPs having a tendency to become "observers" (type 5), and this is probably where the correlation comes from.

INTJ and INTP are a good example, because they're seemingly similar, but they not only have a completely different set of functions, they're also using them differently (Ni/Te as opposed to Ne/Ti). Their way of thinking is very different, but they're similar in the ways which make them likely to have the same Enneagram types.

 

[lightspeed]

I used to think I was a 4 wing, but quickly reverted after realizing my (classic definition: Schizoid personality disorder, and Avoidant personality disorder) 6 wing was much more dominant.



Anyway, I find my 5w4 friends to be more down to earth, practical, etc.

 

[Aiss]

Anyway, I find my 5w4 friends to be more down to earth, practical, etc.

It's 5w6 which is supposedly more down to earth (technical, focused on details etc.) whereas 5w4 is more abstract (imaginative) and more likely to disregard authority... are you sure they're typed correctly?

By the way for all Fives here... I guess some of you have seen it, but I found it just now (at http://www.enneagraminstitute.com ) and I've no idea if it has been posted here already. It's about "health", not about "growth", but going from 9 to 1 shows a sort of development path for 5 (although with a starting point varying, hopefully nowhere near 9 for most people). It's quite disturbing how much it fits me - I'm in 5->4 transition and I've observed it for some time (becoming more 4 than 5, that is), also 1-3 really describe my ambitions (I hope it doesn't make me as much of a wanna-be-intellectual as I fear). I think it may help in growing into our potential:

Type Five—More Depth by Level

Healthy Levels

Level 1(At Their Best): Become visionaries, broadly comprehending the world while penetrating it profoundly. Open-minded, take things in whole, in their true context. Make pioneering discoveries and find entirely new ways of doing and perceiving things.
Level 2: Observe everything with extraordinary perceptiveness and insight. Most mentally alert, curious, searching intelligence: nothing escapes their notice. Foresight and prediction. Able to concentrate: become engrossed in what has caught their attention.
Level 3: Attain skillful mastery of whatever interests them. Excited by knowledge: often become expert in some field. Innovative and inventive, producing extremely valuable, original works. Highly independent, idiosyncratic, and whimsical.

Average Levels

Level 4: Begin conceptualizing and fine-tuning everything before acting—working things out in their minds: model building, preparing, practicing, and gathering more resources. Studious, acquiring technique. Become specialized, and often "intellectual," often challenging accepted ways of doing things.
Level 5: Increasingly detached as they become involved with complicated ideas or imaginary worlds. Become preoccupied with their visions and interpretations rather than reality. Are fascinated by off-beat, esoteric subjects, even those involving dark and disturbing elements. Detached from the practical world, a "disembodied mind," although high-strung and intense.
Level 6: Begin to take an antagonistic stance toward anything which would interfere with their inner world and personal vision. Become provocative and abrasive, with intentionally extreme and radical views. Cynical and argumentative.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Become reclusive and isolated from reality, eccentric and nihilistic. Highly unstable and fearful of aggressions: they reject and repulse others and all social attachments.
Level 8: Get obsessed yet frightened by their threatening ideas, becoming horrified, delirious, and prey to gross distortions and phobias.
Level 9: Seeking oblivion, they may commit suicide or have a psychotic break with reality. Deranged, explosively self-destructive, with schizophrenic overtones. Generally corresponds to the Schizoid Avoidant and Schizotypal personality disorders.

 

[Agent Intellect]

^Levels 4, 5, and 6 sound about where I am most of the time, but even 7 touched on a few things (or, at least the way I was about two years ago, anyway).

 

[Fukyo]

6s seem more externally / socially focused.

That's actually the social subtype 6w7.Most online descriptions seem to to biased in favor of this variant.
6w5 is introverted and similar to type 5.

 

[Ombat]

Aiss, thank you for posting this. I really don't know very much about Enneagram. I tested 5w4, and that fits me very well. I'm probably a 5 on that list.

EDIT: Do the wings correspond to the same numbers that your main type corresponds to? I just looked at the health levels of type 4, and they describe me more accurately than those of type 5, although they both describe me.

 

[Razare]

I would agree from personal experience that the INTJ aligns with 5w6 better than 5w4.

But the Enneagram speaks to motivation, where MBIT explains what functions a person uses. Ultimately, they're describing completely different aspects of yourself; there's just a moderate correlation between motivation and personality.

 

[Aiss]

Ombat, no problem. I don't even know this much about Enneagram myself (just what I read on the web)... I met another INTP who's 4w5 though, so that's a perfectly possible combination, yes.

 

[Sparrow]

My results are as follows:

Type 5 - 10.7
Type 9 - 9.7
Type 1 - 7.7
Type 6 - 7.3
Type 4 - 7
Type 8 - 6.3
Type 7 - 6.3
Type 2 - 6

Wing 5w6 - 14.4
Wing 5w4 - 14.2
Wing 9w1 - 13.6
Wing 9w8 - 12.9
Wing 6w5 - 12.7
Wing 1w9 - 12.6
Wing 4w5 - 12.4
Wing 8w9 - 11.2
Wing 1w2 - 10.7
Wing 6w7 - 10.5
Wing 7w6 - 10
Wing 2w1 - 9.9
Wing 7w8 - 9.5
Wing 8w7 - 9.5
Wing 4w3 - 7.9
Wing 2w3 - 6.9

You are most likely a type 5.

Your wings seem to be balanced.

I'm confused. Balanced?

 

[JimTaylor]

I think you might have to read more about MBTI. Your in a forum based on MBTI created for the purpose of bringing together a certain MBTI type.
I have researched MBTI aswell as jungs work allot and can tell you that it is no small theory not to be taken seriously.

edit, From my experience I have noticed its intj's who tend to dislike MBTI and dont accept there type. I checked cryss winters profile and sure enough she's not sure whether she's intp or intj (INTX)

Not that theres anything wrong with that, just pointing out a consistency with intj's. Good news cryss, your an INTJ, your search is over

I think MBTI is very interesting and I understand a lot of research has been put into it, but also I don't value it that much beyond one of my many interests because people are unique and therefore impossible to type. I mean we share some common traits but otherwise fundamentally different. This could be why INTJ's don't like MBTI because they are detail orientated and MBTI though extensive in it's research can be rather generalized, for obvious reasons. Now I claim to be an INTP because I believe I fit that mold better and the people on INTJ forum agree so just because I do not value MBTI as fact, does not make me an INTJ. I mean look at this forum and see the people that where typed INTP but are so different in character, beliefs, and ideas. Some may share the same general problems; i.e socially inept like myself, but the way they handle it or how they internally process it are so different.

Now I am also a 5w4 so make of it you will, but I also did notice some of the same patterns with MBTI and enneagram.

 

[Scourgexlvii]

I'm a 5w4, but I got pretty close to being a 5w6 or a 9w8... and on the "Type Five—More Depth by Level," I found a lot of levels 7, 5, 2, in myself and to a smaller extent level 1, but mostly level 5.

 

[Anthile]

INTJs are detail orientated... ? I must have missed the memo about that. In fact, none of the 8 N types are detail orientated.

<- Sensor thinking

<-Intuitive thinking

 

[JimTaylor]

INTJs are detail orientated... ? I must have missed the memo about that. In fact, none of the 8 N types are detail orientated.

<- Sensor thinking

<-Intuitive thinking

Detailed as in thinking. This sounds pretty detailed to me. They might night notice every physical detail, but when it comes to thinking I believe they do.

"To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness", of self-confidence. This self-confidence, sometimes mistaken for simple arrogance by the less decisive, is actually of a very specific rather than a general nature; its source lies in the specialized knowledge systems that most INTJs start building at an early age. When it comes to their own areas of expertise -- and INTJs can have several -- they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know.
INTJs are perfectionists, with a seemingly endless capacity for improving upon anything that takes their interest. What prevents them from becoming chronically bogged down in this pursuit of perfection is the pragmatism so characteristic of the type: INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake.
INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play, as INTJs can be unsparing of both themselves and the others on the project. Anyone considered to be "slacking," including superiors, will lose their respect -- and will generally be made aware of this; INTJs have also been known to take it upon themselves to implement critical decisions without consulting their supervisors or co-workers. On the other hand, they do tend to be scrupulous and even-handed about recognizing the individual contributions that have gone into a project, and have a gift for seizing opportunities which others might not even notice."

 

[asdfasdfasdfsdf]

wtf is all this xwx stuff?

 

[Scourgexlvii]

wtf is all this xwx stuff?

Enneagram typing. It's another way of typing other than MBTI. I don't see it as as accurate as MBTI, but it's just another test.

P.S.: When I said not as accurate, I wasn't saying they were meant to test the same thing, but it's just another type of personality test...

 

[Ombat]

INTJs are detail orientated... ? I must have missed the memo about that. In fact, none of the 8 N types are detail orientated.

<- Sensor thinking

<-Intuitive thinking

Damnit...
Why do I think I'm an S more and more every day?

 

[Nocturne]

Hm. And my comment on such a topic is this.
I score as an INTP but I am not very sure myself. But, as Winter has said, I may only score this result only because I want to be. Perhaps "you are who you think you are"?

Being Type 5 Wing 4 makes me question even harder whether I am an INTP. ..... >.<