20 somethings, we need to get out of our collective butts

[Pyropyro]

Meg Jay: Why 30 is not the new 20 | Video on TED.com

Well this talk was eye opener for me as someone who is in his late twenties. Turns out that the 20's is the best time to develop yourself for the better or for the worse and I have wasted some of it away.

Anyways, this is my take home from the talk:

We INTP's have a harder time searching for our convergent Truth or platform (Fe). However, we have to force ourselves to go out there and practice gathering Identity capital (Ti-Ne) rather than be cynical navel gazers (Ti-Si). These capitals could be stuff, education, right relationships or experience that we believe will be useful for our plausible futures.

I assume that it's going to be hard but I guess everything that can be held dear is worth fighting for anyways.

 

[Valentas]

I read her book and everything made sense. Some of us are led to believe that we have all the time to figure things out. Which is truth. You must find ultimate happiness.

But! You must not simply procrastinate to start something with your life. The examples from her book were people who worked in a coffee shop trying to figure out themselves. The author's advice to them was to decide what they want: for women, when they want to get pregnant, when they aim to start their career and do well, write everything down and start working towards it. I think the issue with Gen Y is that we take time to figure things out.

The strategy should be doing something you currently like: for me, it is Computer Science and meet people who would help you to live your dream in the future. But in the end it all comes down to finding what you really like, then commit to this cause and never ever quit.

If you find what you love, you can do anything you want. Why? Because you have a strong foundation under you : certainty that this is your life's mission. From this, the possibilities are limitless and only your own mind can make you fail. If you quit.

I watched one video interview with degree-less person who said that she's done everything differently. Basically, she skipped college and went to work for some company when she was 18. There, she found her passion to help people make their business a success. She got promotion after promotion because she worked hard and in the end, she started her own business. Now, she is 28, works 3 hours each day and charge 500/hour for her services. This is what is the power of finding your love. When asked what is the most important cause of her success, she replied: "finding what you like to do and then work towards it, never quitting"

The speaker of TED raised good point and people should really be proactive to find what they want to do.

 

[Beat Mango]

"Massive pressure heading into one's 30s"... I can relate big time.

I like what she says about identity capital. I'd add we need financial capital as well. Perhaps the 20s is a time to build capital in general.

 

[doncarlzone]

I watched one video interview with degree-less person who said that she's done everything differently. Basically, she skipped college and went to work for some company when she was 18. There, she found her passion to help people make their business a success. She got promotion after promotion because she worked hard and in the end, she started her own business. Now, she is 28, works 3 hours each day and charge 500/hour for her services. This is what is the power of finding your love. When asked what is the most important cause of her success, she replied: "finding what you like to do and then work towards it, never quitting"

That's a great story but she was also very lucky.

I am 23 and I went abroad to work for a company when I just turned 19 and have landed three promotions so far and although I'm far from "rich", I'm passed the stage where I have to really think about money. I am the "wonder kid" in my department but I have also learned that this is not how I want to live my life.

I don't want to become a VP giving 80% of my life and passion away for a random company just for the sake of social status. Not to mention stuck with a job I will inevitably start to hate.

However, I still don't know for sure what I want to do instead. I am planning on quitting my job to start on a Philosophy degree and perhaps I will still end up working for a random company but I will definitely not strive for what our society is considering a success - a lot of money and working 24/7.

What are we supposed to do after this supposedly "AHA moment", she certainly didn't say anything I had already thought of. People always regret working too much when they are about to die, however, that doesn't stop her and practically all generations from working their asses off for the sake of perceived success. Without it, companies could not grow as fast and countries neither - we, cannot be a "success" without working our lives away, apparently.

And how do I find the one when I can't even find one?

 

[Beat Mango]

^ yeah one thing I had against that talk was that it very much promoted what I call pop culture values of settling down, maximising income, achieving success (read: social status) etc.

Nothing wrong with those things, but they're not for everyone.

 

[doncarlzone]

^ yeah one thing I had against that talk was that it very much promoted what I call pop culture values of settling down, maximising income, achieving success (read: social status) etc.

Nothing wrong with those things, but they're not for everyone.

You're absolutely right, I should have added that last sentence.

 

[Valentas]

doncarlzone,

she worked her ass off and when she found that she can do everything on her own terms, she quit and created a business. I can hardly understand what it is you see lucky here. She worked, work proved to be beneficial, she made contacts and then found her business. And that's nice.

The speaker does not promote get rich blablah. The main theme is to find what you see yourself doing in the future and get working. Read her book on the bunch of people who regretted not taking action and risks earlier.

MEh, working 24/7. You will work if you want results. Imagine you own a business which needs constant attention. It is like a newborn child who needs to change diapers. As a mother, you would not lie in a bed and think "I don't feel like doing it today" but you must because your child requires attention. The same is with business. However, once your child grows up, he will support you just as a business when developed. I worked my ass off in accordion class when younger and I don't regret a minute of doing that. It taught me discipline, commitment and not give up when it is freaking hard.

 

[doncarlzone]

doncarlzone,

she worked her ass off and when she found that she can do everything on her own terms, she quit and created a business. I can hardly understand what it is you see lucky here. She worked, work proved to be beneficial, she made contacts and then found her business. And that's nice.

The speaker does not promote get rich blablah. The main theme is to find what you see yourself doing in the future and get working. Read her book on the bunch of people who regretted not taking action and risks earlier.

MEh, working 24/7. You will work if you want results. Imagine you own a business which needs constant attention. It is like a newborn child who needs to change diapers. As a mother, you would not lie in a bed and think "I don't feel like doing it today" but you must because your child requires attention. The same is with business. However, once your child grows up, he will support you just as a business when developed. I worked my ass off in accordion class when younger and I don't regret a minute of doing that. It taught me discipline, commitment and not give up when it is freaking hard.

What I meant by lucky was that she found her passion at the age of 18. I was in by no means implying that her achievements were all due to luck. I could have made that more clear.

 

[redbaron]

Endure the pain of discipline or suffer the pain of regret.

Even if you don't intend to settle down, there's still incentive to work hard and do what you do well. You might not find a dream job, but you may as well excel at whatever you're doing. If you're at work for 8 hours a day anyway, why not make it a productive 8 hours and give yourself the best chance at promotions and benefits? You're not going to get to 30 and say, "boy I really wish I hadn't worked hard and saved money!"

Then again maybe you will.

 

[Pyropyro]

^ yeah one thing I had against that talk was that it very much promoted what I call pop culture values of settling down, maximising income, achieving success (read: social status) etc.

Nothing wrong with those things, but they're not for everyone.

For me anyways, those are just a means to an end.

Settling down - intimate interactions with another person (not just sex mind you but it would really help ) and teaching younger people (children) and learning from them too
maximizing income while doing the thing that you love to do - I think you can work your butt off with things that you don't like but I think it's a lot better if you're working your butt off with things that you do like.
Social status - if this will help me access more resources and mentors to learn from then why not? Otherwise I don't want to have high social status. Fame is such an energy drain.

 

[Architect]

We INTP's have a harder time searching for our convergent Truth or platform (Fe). However, we have to force ourselves to go out there and practice gathering Identity capital (Ti-Ne) rather than be cynical navel gazers (Ti-Si). These capitals could be stuff, education, right relationships or experience that we believe will be useful for our plausible futures.

Excellent point, I think 90% of my advice on this forum is to make this point to younger folks. As PersonalityJunkie has pointed out INP's have a difficult time of it when it comes to life's work. I was fortunate to be one of those who found their passion early in life (computers - it started when I saw my first "Pong" game in the 70's) but the ironic thing is, despite having worked in tech all my life I didn't really realize how much I loved it until my 40's. What the hell?

There is a good reason for this though - the "Maze Metaphor". I couldn't accept computing until I had eliminated everything else, look it up on PersonalityJunkie. So while it was unfortunate in a way that I couldn't enjoy the knowledge of having found my passion I was fortunate to be actually doing my passion all that time. And in reality my INTP nature was compelling me to not realize the truth that was right in front of me.

Which may have been a good thing. I might have gone to work for Google in the early days, become extraordinarily rich and never touched a computer again, but just piss my time away spending the money. Who know, but now I'm looking forward to a second half solid in my purpose and intents.

Si rambling ... regardless I encourage younger folks that this is the key sentence, what made it work for me was absolutely the following, because even when I had what I wanted but didn't know it, I still was searching

gathering Identity capital (Ti-Ne) rather than be cynical navel gazers (Ti-Si)

And final note, when you find your passion you won't really have it. As Drenth notes our searching never ends, it just narrows. Sure I know that the answer I'm looking for (convergent truth) lies within computing, but it's still gnawing at me and I'm still searching ...

 

[Pyropyro]

And final note, when you find your passion you won't really have it. As Drenth notes our searching never ends, it just narrows. Sure I know that the answer I'm looking for (convergent truth) lies within computing, but it's still gnawing at me and I'm still searching ...

I feel good about that. It's kind of fun to always be on the run and searching about new stuff. It makes you feel like a child again somehow.

I think I need to develop Si too to cut down some of the deaden fractal paths Ne makes and make the search narrower.

 

[Polaris]

And final note, when you find your passion you won't really have it. As Drenth notes our searching never ends, it just narrows. Sure I know that the answer I'm looking for (convergent truth) lies within computing, but it's still gnawing at me and I'm still searching ...

I'm glad you said that. Nearly done with a second degree and I'm not sure where it's taking me...or if I'm even on the right track. Perhaps I've just lost a bit of steam now that I'm so close.

It's like the chase is more exciting than the actual goal itself. Once I'm there, I'm like; "Now what?"

It makes me think that life isn't about goals as much as it is about how you enjoy the process of getting there...which means we have to be careful to pick fields that are going to leave many doors open in many directions....and be careful to not get too fixed upon 'achieving'.

Same with money. Once you have it, everything is kind of....the same. I therefore think it is great to have enough to be comfortable, while being aware of the effect that much wants more....I find the less material stuff I surround myself with the more inward focus and intellectual momentum I gather.

Then again...material gains have never been a main focus for me. While I made good money and had a "great" job, I was more miserable than ever because I had zero intellectual freedom and was working with/for mostly incompetent and greedy assholes. It zapped me internally.

That woman just makes me annoyed the way she goes on as if young people need to panic about getting organised early. Some of the life-goals she talks about have no appeal to me anyway, never did. I never wanted a family, for one. I never thought I would be as lucky to find one person who would be a potential life-partner; that happens to very few and very fortunate people. I really believe the reason why so many people are miserable in their relationships is because they think they can "make" it work. You shouldn't have to make it work, it will just work when you meet that person. And the chances of that are very small; probability will inevitably show us that we would have to go through a hell of a lot of people to eventually encounter the right sort of person. Which means....it could take time. Or that you'd have to get very busy in the going-out scene....what introvert wants to go through that?

I knew where I was heading career wise, but just happened to get quite ill so that I ended up having to re-plan my whole life. You cannot predict what will happen; you can plan, yes, but things happen that could turn everything around 180 degrees. As a result I'm somewhat poorer and more compromised for time, but I have never regretted anything I did. Without the not-so-great choices to remind us what we don't want, how can we know with so much damn certainty that we have indeed made a good choice?

This is why so many people get to middle age and start wondering about their choices; because they tied themselves into commitments too early.

Just another perspective.

The kind of people who would benefit from the sort of planning that this TED talker is talking about are perhaps certain types of people; people who yearn for stability and security. I never yearned for those things. I yearned for freedom, and most importantly; intellectual freedom.

 

[Architect]

I'm glad you said that. Nearly done with a second degree and I'm not sure where it's taking me...or if I'm even on the right track. Perhaps I've just lost a bit of steam now that I'm so close.

It's like the chase is more exciting than the actual goal itself. Once I'm there, I'm like; "Now what?"

It makes me think that life isn't about goals as much as it is about how you enjoy the process of getting there...which means we have to be careful to pick fields that are going to leave many doors open in many directions....and be careful to not get too fixed upon 'achieving'.

Same with money. Once you have it, everything is kind of....the same. I therefore think it is great to have enough to be comfortable, while being aware of the effect that much wants more....I find the less material stuff I surround myself with the more inward focus and intellectual momentum I gather.

All good points. Funny that I was just going to say something about money. Much of my life I was obsessed with getting enough so I could be independent. Then once I got there I realized that it wasn't about money at all, it was about me and what I was doing moment to moment. As it turned out I met my financial goals simply by doing what I wanted which is the right way to do it. I would have been better though to focus a bit more on enjoying the what rather than the side effect (money). Or maybe not, perhaps I had a good balance.

Anyhow to a large degree there is never enough. My money goals just keep growing, so I have "more security" and "more options and freedom". The only possession I've bought with money that I've consistently enjoyed has been computers and a great office.

Working on projects and learning have been the most fulfilling times of my life.

 

[Polaris]

All good points. Funny that I was just going to say something about money. Much of my life I was obsessed with getting enough so I could be independent. Then once I got there I realized that it wasn't about money at all, it was about me and what I was doing moment to moment. As it turned out I met my financial goals simply by doing what I wanted which is the right way to do it. I would have been better though to focus a bit more on enjoying the what rather than the side effect (money). Or maybe not, perhaps I had a good balance.

Anyhow to a large degree there is never enough. My money goals just keep growing, so I have "more security" and "more options and freedom". The only possession I've bought with money that I've consistently enjoyed has been computers and a great office.

Working on projects and learning have been the most fulfilling times of my life.

I understand the independent factor very well. That is a fact; money inevitably gives freedom. It just seems there is a catch; people often don't seem to appear "free", even when they are financially secure. In fact, many seem very strained and anxious due to all the worries that comes with having so much wealth. You were wise to just follow your interests, which is what most INTP's would do if they had the confidence, I suppose. I think this is the key; find your field of interest and pursue it; make your niche. I think modern society is becoming more and more niche-based as commerce and exchange of services moves to cyberworld; it means dissolution of larger companies as more and more people are setting up entrepreneur-type networking world-wide; targeting very specific needs in the market that larger companies don't cater to, or don't offer a competitive price for.

I think this is where INTPs could find their niches.

I digress....

Yes, the only possessions I have had any real use for and pleasure from are books, my computer, and music. I'm happy to live in a small house with very sparse furniture and no other means of entertainment. A few green plants, some peace and quiet....

Now I just need cats......

 

[Architect]

You were wise to just follow your interests, which is what most INTP's would do if they had the confidence, I suppose.

That's a key point. I found my thing by osmosis, just by doing whatever seemed like the right thing at the time, until I flamed out. Eventually I was running out of options, when I wanted to flame out of physics my brother said "why not software" and off I went. The Maze Metaphor indeed.

Which is where OP has a great point. It's far better to be doing something, even if not the best thing, because it will lead you to the best thing eventually. My only virtue was that I wasn't passive.

Yes, the only possessions I have had any real use for and pleasure from are books, my computer, and music. I'm happy to live in a small house with very sparse furniture and no other means of entertainment. A few green plants, some peace and quiet....

Yup. Drenth says this scenario is common among INP's.

Now I just need cats......

I love them but don't want the responsibility.

 

[Polaris]

Yes....very important key point: not to be passive. At least not too long...it never leads to anything but self-doubt....and often depression/procrastination. One could do something whilst procrastinating over something else....

 

[Jennywocky]

Yes, the only possessions I have had any real use for and pleasure from are books, my computer, and music. I'm happy to live in a small house with very sparse furniture and no other means of entertainment. A few green plants, some peace and quiet....

Now I just need cats......

Yup. Drenth says this scenario is common among INP's.

Pretty funny. I have lived in various kinds of environments and when I was young thought I wanted a place with a huge yard (since I had a huge yard growing up).

Now, though, I'm happy alone in my cozy 1BR, 2-room apartment with no property to take care of. I think I'd like one more bedroom so that my kids (or friends) can come visit comfortably and I'd also have a bit more storage / room for some bookshelves, but my personal needs are essentially room for my books, a computer, a decent TV to watch movies, etc. And I'd like it to have windows, because I find it improves my mood immensely. I have realized I do not like to spend much time (and have trouble doing so) for property upkeep. And I like it to be accessible to both urban and natural areas, for easy egress to anything I need.

The cat is a great idea, Polaris; I just find upkeep on him a little annoying too. (Litter box? Ugh.) it also lessens my flexibility a bit, on weekend visits elsewhere, since someone needs to watch him or I have to make sure he's stocked for a bit.

Which is where OP has a great point. It's far better to be doing something, even if not the best thing, because it will lead you to the best thing eventually. My only virtue was that I wasn't passive.

I can't underline that enough.

Trying things out is okay. But for the abstract thoughtfuls/strategizers, sitting back and not engaging until you come up with the "best possible answer" is shooting yourself in the foot and why there is usually a lot of indecision. I've been through it, and I watch my INTP son go through it. Think, but simultaneously do -- because it will provide new data that guides your search. Otherwise you're just sitting with the same broad data that is also completely detached from that inner sense of whether you like something or not. and nothing much is going to change.

Doing things not only helps to clarify what you like and do not like (both over the short and long terms), but it also positions you and offers opportunities so that when you find something you like, you'll be in a better state to get it.

 

[r4ch3l]

It's like the chase is more exciting than the actual goal itself. Once I'm there, I'm like; "Now what?"

That's a huge problem for me. When something I've been obsessing on or working hard at ends I mentally shut down from the overwhelm and barely feel satisfied from the completion. Choosing something new to get momentum back is always hard.

That woman just makes me annoyed the way she goes on as if young people need to panic about getting organised early. Some of the life-goals she talks about have no appeal to me anyway, never did. I never wanted a family, for one.

Yes, I disliked that as well. TBH well-intentioned friends and family pressuring me to make "normal" decisions and "take the next step" with relationships and career stuff really messed with me and slowed me down because of all the cognitive dissonance (I can't decide/I should do that/I don't actually want that loop]. Why do we all have to live the same kind of life? I agree that some of her advice is common sense and useful but I don't like that she assumed that everyone's priorities and values are the same.

This is why so many people get to middle age and start wondering about their choices; because they tied themselves into commitments too early.

That's my other theory on INTPs; we get our midlife crisis out of the way early.

The kind of people who would benefit from the sort of planning that this TED talker is talking about are perhaps certain types of people; people who yearn for stability and security. I never yearned for those things. I yearned for freedom, and most importantly; intellectual freedom.

Reminds me of an article the online mag I used to write for ran on fraternities. They were listing the stats on how every president and 85% of Fortune 500 execs had belonged to a fraternity. I responded with:

"Well duh, though. People who are more prone to sign up to a micro-social hierarchy are going to be more interested in participating in micro and macro social hierarchies outside the initial micro-social hierarchy (= frat).

Those of us who aren't interested in it go on to become hobos or William S. Burroughs or JK Rowling or Bill Gates or cat ladies."

That's sort of how I see INxPs. Loners who follow their own curiosity at all costs and don't really plan or want to plan. Sometimes it pays off big. Sometimes it's a disaster. But if you choose to live that way you have to deal with the consequences, good or bad.

My current strategy is working on practical career stuff that ties into what I want to do my master's in and work on in the future (so low-paying programming contract instead of continuing with technical writing because I have my eye on a program combining logic, language, & computation). I feel fairly positive about it. After all the career turbulence it feels nice to have a coherent direction I'm moving in that combines my interests, my degree, the opportunities I have through my network, and something practical/applied.

 

[TimeAsylums]

That woman just makes me annoyed the way she goes on as if young people need to panic about getting organised early. Some of the life-goals she talks about have no appeal to me anyway, never did. I never wanted a family, for one. I never thought I would be as lucky to find one person who would be a potential life-partner; that happens to very few and very fortunate people. I really believe the reason why so many people are miserable in their relationships is because they think they can "make" it work. You shouldn't have to make it work, it will just work when you meet that person.

Yes, I disliked that as well. TBH well-intentioned friends and family pressuring me to make "normal" decisions and "take the next step" with relationships and career stuff really messed with me and slowed me down because of all the cognitive dissonance (I can't decide/I should do that/I don't actually want that loop]. Why do we all have to live the same kind of life? I agree that some of her advice is common sense and useful but I don't like that she assumed that everyone's priorities and values are the same.

+10

"Well intentioned" people always seem to make this assumption.
It's so annoying... "Oh, because I know what I want, I know what everyone else wants, they must want the same thing as me." I didn't realize everyone who offered well intentioned advice was an analytical psychotherapist.

 

[ZenRaiden]

My life is a crisis. I realized too soon that I am no good at anything. Got in to panic and still am in panic at age of 25. I have not done a single thing that could be considered investment in to personal capital. My first panic years started 17,18. I remember looking at my hands and realizing that they are bigger. It hit me. I am grown up. And here I am.

 

[Beat Mango]

See my goal in my 20s, looking back with hindsight, was to experience the highs and lows of life. My goal was exhilaration. I also wanted to figure out the world and the people in it (as an INTP, this was part of the exhilaration).

 

[Beat Mango]

"Well duh, though. People who are more prone to sign up to a micro-social hierarchy are going to be more interested in participating in micro and macro social hierarchies outside the initial micro-social hierarchy (= frat).

Those of us who aren't interested in it go on to become hobos or William S. Burroughs or JK Rowling or Bill Gates or cat ladies.

You have a way with words. I like the connection between hobos and Bill Gates.

 

[kvothe27]

I've spent most of my 20's overclocking my mind, body, and emotions. I figure if I can determine my limits as fully as possible, explore areas where my doubts are strong, and just generally get myself in order, the rest of my life will follow more gracefully.

 

[SpaceYeti]

It took me about a decade to realize I had no goals. It coincided with my being so broke that a dollar burger from Mickey D's was a significant expenditure. Then I joined the military, got my teeth fixed, and everything's pretty great... except I'm in the military.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I meet too many around my age, +/- five years, who act like chickens with their heads chopped off. As for settling down? I am male; I can wait many years and just attract a younger woman. In the mean time I have shit to do.

 

[Puffy]

The kind of people who would benefit from the sort of planning that this TED talker is talking about are perhaps certain types of people; people who yearn for stability and security. I never yearned for those things. I yearned for freedom, and most importantly; intellectual freedom.

Aye, I feel the same way. I'm only 23, so hardly in a position to speak with much wisdom, but I feel I've observed this culture long enough to know that I won't be satisfied by most of the paths it offers. I have contingency plans and have high enough qualifications that I doubt finding work will be an issue if things don't work out. But I feel my passions are in quite lofty things - intellectual and artistic projects - that there's a remote chance of success, and that I'd hence rather spend a decade taking risks than the safer alternatives.

 

[Reluctantly]

Whenever I see stuff like this it makes me feel like the real problem people have is not being intelligent enough to find enjoyment with the life they have. Although if you're poor and not getting basic needs met, that's somewhat different.

 

[Cavallier]

I set a goal.
I reach the goal.
I decide the goal is actually pointless.

Rinse and repeat.

For example:

Get my college diploma. I got it and realized that the journey was fun and the degree itself has risen my earning potential but it's not as important as everyone made it out to be.

Get a comfortable well paying job. Did that and did well at it. I'm making enough money to be comfortable. However I'm bored. So bored.

In my down time I'm learning guitar (very slowly ) and looking into learning how to sail (on a whim).

I can set the goal and I can obtain it. Then I'm bored again.

 

[redbaron]

I set a goal.
I reach the goal.
I decide the goal is actually pointless.

Rinse and repeat.

If anyone finds a solution to this dilemma please share.

 

[Beat Mango]

Can't help you there.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Meg Jay: Why 30 is not the new 20 | Video on TED.com

Well this talk was eye opener for me as someone who is in his late twenties. Turns out that the 20's is the best time to develop yourself for the better or for the worse and I have wasted some of it away.

Anyways, this is my take home from the talk:

We INTP's have a harder time searching for our convergent Truth or platform (Fe). However, we have to force ourselves to go out there and practice gathering Identity capital (Ti-Ne) rather than be cynical navel gazers (Ti-Si). These capitals could be stuff, education, right relationships or experience that we believe will be useful for our plausible futures.

I assume that it's going to be hard but I guess everything that can be held dear is worth fighting for anyways.

very lucid post, thank you

 

[Pyropyro]

My life is a crisis. I realized too soon that I am no good at anything. Got in to panic and still am in panic at age of 25. I have not done a single thing that could be considered investment in to personal capital. My first panic years started 17,18. I remember looking at my hands and realizing that they are bigger. It hit me. I am grown up. And here I am.

awareness of/identifying the problem is the first step of solving it.

 

[Architect]

I set a goal.
I reach the goal.
I decide the goal is actually pointless.

Rinse and repeat.

If anyone finds a solution to this dilemma please share.

Well that's kind of the point isn't it? If we didn't lose interest in goals once they're achieved we'd probably not get too far. The point is to then set and reach a higher goal. Which isn't without problems too. For example, look at accomplished, famous and rich people such as Madonna. What is she doing? Still doing her thing. What else would she do? Look at Michael Jordan, obviously he struggled with this as he tried to retread as a different type of athlete. So it can be difficult if you reach the top, but for the rest of us there is a lot we can do.

Continual re-invention is a fact of life, and as our lives get longer (and perhaps much longer) it's more of a problem. Working towards goals is the fun part. Reaching them or not having goals isn't any fun. Most people can only sit by the pool for so long before getting bored. But if you keep at it you'll start to accumulate a nice list of accomplishments.

Having said all that I do recall past goals and somewhat miss them. I think those famous and rich people might have poorer lives than we think. What's left? Madonna can't really become something different, like a stock broker or engineer, and how can she achieve even more than where she's at? I think that maybe having a lot of money is maybe the only anodyne to such a life. At least you can fill your days with amusements and toys.

Also keeping in mind that a rich life is more than goals, it's also just enjoying and living it.