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The Therapeutic Forum

Da Blob

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Group therapy has a very long history, even though its use as a psychological technique has a history of only about a century.

Professional Counselors often prescribe a regime of group therapy sessions for a variety of ills and there are already a large number of internet sites, where group therapy is available for a 'slight' fee.

Many members have found participation in the Forum to be therapeutic, Others have left after finding little of use.

So how does the INTPian version of 'group therapy" compare to other such therapies?

How can we improve on it?

Do we actually want the Forum to be therapeutic, that is - Be Helpful?
 

BigApplePi

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Do you visualize this Forum with a dedicated thread or an outside linkage? Would participants be invited or would they arrive and declare themselves interested in the workings of emotional issues for themselves? If so, how would it be "group" interaction with a counselor as leader or as guidance?
 

Duxwing

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Group therapy has a very long history, even though its use as a psychological technique has a history of only about a century.

Professional Counselors often prescribe a regime of group therapy sessions for a variety of ills and there are already a large number of internet sites, where group therapy is available for a 'slight' fee.

Many members have found participation in the Forum to be therapeutic, Others have left after finding little of use.

So how does the INTPian version of 'group therapy" compare to other such therapies?

How can we improve on it?

Do we actually want the Forum to be therapeutic, that is Be Helpful?

The Human Relations Forum should be therapeutic because the members of this forum, no matter how well actualized and integrated, have, do, and will suffer at the hands of the world and their loved ones. Therefore, that subforum should certainly Be Helpful.

Regarding the other subforums, a fine line divides aggressively criticizing someone's idea and negligently injuring their feelings. If the forum's members criticize too harshly, then those with original ideas will, after being burned and bitten, be afraid to post; conversely, if the forum-goers don't criticize harshly enough, then illogic will roam freely and Ti-users will feel like they have no place here.

Of course, we must also contend with those who utilize the ego defense mechanism of reaction formation in response to their Fe. Such people, much like insecure bullies, loathe feelings and will take pleasure in destroying them in themselves and others because they can't deal with them in any other way. If any member exposes Fe-- even outside the context of a debate-- then these people will, in a bizarre act of logic, attempt to disprove or nullify his or her feelings.

Conversely, we must also contend with those who love Fe. INFJ's and INFP's, for example, can get carried away in a rush of Ni-Fe and leave illogical posts for the Thinkers among us to parse-- to no avail and often to much annoyance and pain. On the one hand, we must not become like the anti-Fe bullies, but on the other hand, letting someone go into a world of deluded fantasy smacks of, for lack of a better word, civic irresponsibility. So, in order to engage in therapy regarding such subjects, INTP's must walk the razor's edge that divides setting another poster straight and ramming a knife straight in their heart.

In conclusion, the INTP forum's members should strive to deliver their logic with grace when faced with an emotionally charged-up poster; moreover, offering some sympathy to the distraught is helpful for cases of existential despair, depression, deaths of loved ones, and other such acute pains. Too many times I've seen perfectly good logic go to waste in attempting to "reason" with a depressed or traumatized person; there are no words that can undo their emotions. All that happens is more reaction formation and the exchange of hateful comments.

-Duxwing
 

BigApplePi

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Dux. You seem to have a handle on this. Three or four qualifiers as you've described and we're ready to go. Are you willing to lead (after running that by Da Blob first, of course)?:D
 

Da Blob

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I don't know that i have any particular visions of a Perfect Forum. :confused:


I would very much like to discourage members from turning Intro threads into Initiation Rites. It seems to me that such 'Tom Foolery' is best left in the Arena. We have a worldwide membership and a wide variety of cultures to be 'sensitive' about. I have been really bummed by the new members who leave the forum after being flamed in their Intro thread or in their first few comments.

It might be useful to add a subforum mentored by qualified professionals or sages, if there are enough volunteers. I have always tried to let it be known that I am available for questions via PMs and I have had a number of members contact me to privately discuss some matter.

Perhaps, If we had a list of 'faculty' posted somewhere, with the areas of expertise offered by each that could be rather helpful. Of course, that list could include all the disciplines and not just the 'soft sciences'

I have just began thinking about this, myself, so brainstorming could the route to go at this point in time...

EDIT: food for Thought?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_community
 

Duxwing

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I don't know that i have any particular visions of a Perfect Forum. :confused:


I would very much like to discourage members from turning Intro threads into Initiation Rites. It seems to me that such 'Tom Foolery' is best left in the Arena. We have a worldwide membership and a wide variety of cultures to be 'sensitive' about. I have been really bummed by the new members who leave the forum after being flamed in their Intro thread or in their first few comments.

It might be useful to add a subforum mentored by qualified professionals or sages, if there are enough volunteers. I have always tried to let it be known that I am available for questions via PMs and I have had a number of members contact me to privately discuss some matter.

Perhaps, If we had a list of 'faculty' posted somewhere, with the areas of expertise offered by each that could be rather helpful. Of course, that list could all the disciplines and not just the 'soft sciences'

I have just began thinking about this, myself, so brainstorming could the route to go at this point in time...

*hats off to Da Blob for altruism* Wow, Blob, I'm glad that you care about us. :)

Apart from my outburst of warmth, I agree that Introit pages shouldn't become battlegrounds of flame and that the various experts of our forum ought to be identified as such.

-Duxwing
 

BigApplePi

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Agreed. Newcomers are potential Forum members. They should be welcomed and encouraged and perhaps shown around the Forum.

I can understand the temptation to tease them though. They are blank slates which can be written on. I would say resist that temptation as one gets more out of writing on a slate where the slate can write back. Whew. Not a good metaphor, lol.
 

Duxwing

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Agreed. Newcomers are potential Forum members. They should be welcomed and encouraged and perhaps shown around the Forum.

I can understand the temptation to tease them though. They are blank slates which can be written on. I would say resist that temptation as one gets more out of writing on a slate where the slate can write back. Whew. Not a good metaphor, lol.

Is my story a good way to introduce them? One particularly pointy fan's reaction has left me nervous to post it again, and I've heard that the story's length drives newcomers away. On the other hand, other neophytes have given me very enthusiastic reviews and my tale was certainly not, if at all involved, the only element that drove the aforementioned newbies away. Hence, I am somewhat confused about posting the story on new Introit threads and seek your council on whether doing so would be more a service than a disservice.

-Duxwing
 

EyeSeeCold

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I would very much like to discourage members from turning Intro threads into Initiation Rites. It seems to me that such 'Tom Foolery' is best left in the Arena. We have a worldwide membership and a wide variety of cultures to be 'sensitive' about. I have been really bummed by the new members who leave the forum after being flamed in their Intro thread or in their first few comments.
Flamed? Examples?
 

BigApplePi

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Is my story a good way to introduce them? One particularly pointy fan's reaction has left me nervous to post it again, and I've heard that the story's length drives newcomers away. On the other hand, other neophytes have given me very enthusiastic reviews and my tale was certainly not, if at all involved, the only element that drove the aforementioned newbies away. Hence, I am somewhat confused about posting the story on new Introit threads and seek your council on whether doing so would be more a service than a disservice.

-Duxwing
Dux. Do you think your story INTP representative? I say hold your story or ask anyone if they'd like to hear it after selecting them as candidates. That's just my offhand reaction. Feel free to counter it.
 

joal0503

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ill volunteer to lead naked group therapy. im an expert. :D

real talk:
from a forum noob perspective, it would be kinda cool to see some way of differentiating 'qualified professionals' and 'sages' from us common folk.
 

Duxwing

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Dux. Do you think your story INTP representative? I say hold your story or ask anyone if they'd like to hear it after selecting them as candidates. That's just my offhand reaction. Feel free to counter it.

My intention was to summarize the culture of the INTP forum, and I've made every reasonable effort to ensure the accuracy of my work. I've dug through my memories to create the scene of Cognisant exploding into lonely, misanthropic, drunken anger, of Da Blob and Lyra being terrifyingly difficult to understand, of Fukyo (admittedly, I don't know whom to cast in this role) being the forum's Guardian, and of Architect being the resident "Grown Up". I've put myself into the reader's shoes in order to replicate the feeling of coming into a new forum after having been misunderstood for a while, and the prevalence of logic and debate as decor, themes, and plot throughout the story (where appropriate) hopefully provide the flavor of Ti. In summary, I can't be certain, but I think that my story is certainly a good representation of our forum.

Granted, any story is an emotional tapestry, and I must use Fe and Fi to create the characters' feelings; otherwise, the reader wouldn't care about them. Therefore, my grand metaphors to the sun and seasons are not illogical drivel, but a logical necessity of seeking to capture and move my audience. Moreover, the character does develop a friendship with Fukyo, and I stand behind my decision: No friendship and the reader's character literally dies from cold or smoke inhalation. In other words, Friendship, and Feeling (both good and bad) in general, is one of my themes and the story would seem cold without it.

Finally, I agree that offering them the story might be a good idea, but they might not come back to their intro thread for long enough to reply. A good compromise would be putting the tale into a spoiler and saying "If you're into fiction, then read this in-universe introduction that I wrote; I tried to capture INTP forum at its best and worst," followed by other members' reviews of same. By containing my work within a spoiler, the new poster could just as easily ignore my short story as enjoy it in its entirety. All in all, I like your idea and have already implemented it.

-Duxwing
 

joal0503

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I've dug through my memories to create the scene of Cognisant exploding into lonely, misanthropic, drunken anger, of Da Blob and Lyra being terrifyingly difficult to understand, of Fukyo (admittedly, I don't know whom to cast in this role) being the forum's Guardian, and of Architect being the resident "Grown Up". In summary, I can't be certain, but I think that my story is certainly a good representation of our forum.

unsolicited advice:

ive never really advocated concision (getting the most info out there is key) but i think when it comes to fictional fantasy within a forum intro thread...yes, be more concise. something just like ^ would convey the message without being i dunno...too much? personally its fun to read, but a lot of it just comes off with this creeper vibe to it.
 

Duxwing

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unsolicited advice:

ive never really advocated concision (getting the most info out there is key) but i think when it comes to fictional fantasy within a forum intro thread...yes, be more concise. something just like ^ would convey the message without being i dunno...too much? personally its fun to read, but a lot of it just comes off with this creeper vibe to it.

Creeper? Eh? :confused:

-Duxwing
 

joal0503

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Creeper? Eh? :confused:

-Duxwing

questions i asked when i first saw your intro story:

how and why does this dude speak about the personalities of others more than himself?

why doesnt he let others find this information/intrepetations for themselves?

how does he formulate these assumptions? ---> inevitable conclusion ---> its his fantasy about that particular person...

not "creepy" thats not the right word...the omniscience comes across as something inexplicable at the moment.

Again as a piece of wonderful entertainment...i love to see it...and maybe its just because im drawing experience from other forums...but it just seems weird to put that much story into an intro thread, where as a new user it could definitely come across as just something over the top.

I want to figure out and explore personalities on my own. I want to find and engage with people and their interesting conversations myself, not hear it from some dude in a fictional setting.

i understand that i have no right to be critical ( i do more dumb shit than that ) so just take it for what it is...just a reaction and honest opinion from somebody that doesnt mean jack shit (outside perspective), but at the same time im somebody who represents the majority of newcomers (i assume).


edit: after reading this...just ignore it dude and do what you do.
 

Da Blob

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@Duxwing Well, I like it! Although though one could put the body of it within a spoiler, with a disclaimer/intro customized for each application.

Hmm as far as a list of Sages/faculty, I see nothing wrong with a list of self-appointed experts if it is done in the right spirit. However, I would suggest that would depend on the number of those volunteers willing to sacrifice time and energy to 'sponser' and mentor.

It could be a very short list that is being discussed as a hypothetical...:slashnew:
 

Cavallier

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I don't see much flaming in the introit area. INTP intoit is actually one of the friendlier "newbie" forum sections I've come across. When someone is being particularly horrible eventually either Fukyo, LOR, Kuu, or I stomps on them (usually to paranoid cries of "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" :slashnew:).

But there is a certain amount of good natured silliness. Hey, if you can't enjoy a trip down the intuitive rabbit hole you aren't going to enjoy yourself for long in INTPForumlandia and you probably just don't belong. That's okay. Not everyone has to belong you know...

Edit: Self appointed experts?!?!?!?! I'M THE SELF APPOINTED EXPERT IN HUGO WEAVING BEARD QUALITY AND KITTEN SNUGGLES.
 

Matt3737

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@Duxwing

I think he means that it comes off as unusual because it appears to be a social obligation presented upon arrival. It's just a little too sudden is all, like spilling one's guts to use an idiom. ;)
 

Duxwing

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@Duxwing Well, I like it! Although though one could put the body of it within a spoiler, with a disclaimer/intro customized for each application.

Hmm as far as a list of Sages/faculty, I see nothing wrong with a list of self-appointed experts if it is done in the right spirit. However, I would suggest that would depend on the number of those volunteers willing to sacrifice time and energy to 'sponser' and mentor.

It could be a very short list that is being discussed as a hypothetical...:slashnew:

Have you read the story?

-Duxwing
 

Duxwing

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@Duxwing

I think he means that it comes off as unusual because it appears to be a social obligation presented upon arrival. It's just a little too sudden is all, like spilling one's guts to use an idiom. ;)

Obligation? To quote Da Blob, "Pfft! Bah Humbug!". I like giving them my story.

-Duxwing
 

Da Blob

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I don't see much flaming in the introit area. INTP intoit is actually one of the friendlier "newbie" forum sections I've come across. When someone is being particularly horrible eventually either Fukyo, LOR, Kuu, or I stomps on them (usually to paranoid cries of "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" :slashnew:).

But there is a certain amount of good natured silliness. Hey, if you can't enjoy a trip down the intuitive rabbit hole you aren't going to enjoy yourself for long in INTPForumlandia and you probably just don't belong. That's okay. Not everyone has to belong you know...

Edit: Self appointed experts?!?!?!?! I'M THE SELF APPOINTED EXPERT IN HUGO WEAVING BEARD QUALITY AND KITTEN SNUGGLES.

Perhaps we should start a thread, "Self Appointed Experts"?

I am responding to acknowledge the truth of the comment. The Mods have done a very good job of monitoring the forum this past year (with the exception of my banning, perhaps?). I was thinking of the distant past when I referred to the needless cruelty displayed on the occasional Intro thread. I was reaching for ways of improving the forum off the top of my head in knee-response to a comment.

sorry, if I offended anyone
(this time, at least ;))
 

Kuu

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Uhhh... no.

The INTP forum is occasionally therapeutic, by actually letting INTPs express their INTP tendencies. Which tends to mean an exchange of ideas for the most part. For actually looking for therapeutic or expert advice in specific topics there are other places to go for that, and even it can be found here, without the need of a special space for it. In fact for a considerable amount of time there was no Human Relationships subforum. On this matter you're just a hammer looking for nails, Blob.

Somewhat unrelated
Is my story a good way to introduce them?

Short answer: No.

Long answer:
No. Sorry.

My intention was to summarize the culture of the INTP forum, and I've made every reasonable effort to ensure the accuracy of my work. I've dug through my memories to create the scene of Cognisant exploding into lonely, misanthropic, drunken anger, of Da Blob and Lyra being terrifyingly difficult to understand, of Fukyo (admittedly, I don't know whom to cast in this role) being the forum's Guardian, and of Architect being the resident "Grown Up".

Have you considered the idea that perhaps most of those might not even be INTP?

Dux. Do you think your story INTP representative?

Perhaps the question that should be asked is "who besides Duxwing thinks the story is INTP representative?"
 

Cavallier

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In fact for a considerable amount of time there was no Human Relationships subforum.

And if I recall correctly that was only created as a way of corralling/sequestering people who created accounts and threads for the single purpose of begging us to over analyze their poor romantic judgment.
 

loveofreason

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Ooooh Cav! May I ogle?

Luxuriant beard + Hugo Weaving = sexy.

Whoever would have guessed? Take two err... lets say celery and peanut butter - alone ewwww... but put them together, and BAM!! :hearts: Fine work!
 

rrgjl

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Wouldn't it be an idea to have people apply for a position like this? So, for example, they open a topic in a special subforum, write their motivation, and people can respond to let them know if they think they qualify for the position based on the motivation. Of course it's important to try to be objective, but I think that shouldn't be a major thing. I would grant my worst enemy a position like this if I felt he could do it properly. So maybe you would for example need 10 votes or something, and then you get your new position.
I definitely don't think people need to be professionals. Most good advice comes from life's experience anyway (or raw intelligence, which is not always a thing professionals have per se). Don't get me wrong, professionals can obviously do a great job, but I think it shouldn't be constricted to just them.
 

BigApplePi

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Obligation? To quote Da Blob, "Pfft! Bah Humbug!". I like giving them my story.-Duxwing
"I like giving them my story."

Does anyone here see this as self-indulgent? Nothing wrong with enjoying oneself except one has to consider the effect it has on others. Ask about that.

Not to single you out, Dux, but aren't many guilty? Me too. Who can tell someone they are self-indulgent without calling that a flame? If someone wants to do something (a feeling), it has got to hurt (uh, another feeling) if another says, "no." Still it's a topic worthy of exploring I would think. To deny self-expression would defeat the Forum's purpose.

Who do we like the most ... those who can refrain? ... but then I talk too much ... and who will be ready to tell me that?
 

redbaron

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Perhaps the question that should be asked is "who besides Duxwing thinks the story is INTP representative?"

I know the answer!

Fucking nobody.
BigApplePi said:
Who do we like the most ... those who can refrain? ... but then I talk too much ... and who will be ready to tell me that?

I think some of your posts are comedy gold, and the ones that aren't are succinct enough that I won't

A. get bored halfway through reading
B. be annoyed that I have to scroll so far just to skip a wall of text
C. feel like I wasted my time reading it even if it turns out to hold no personal merit to me
 

BigApplePi

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Duxwing

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"I like giving them my story."

Does anyone here see this as self-indulgent? Nothing wrong with enjoying oneself except one has to consider the effect it has on others. Ask about that.

Not to single you out, Dux, but aren't many guilty? Me too. Who can tell someone they are self-indulgent without calling that a flame? If someone wants to do something (a feeling), it has got to hurt (uh, another feeling) if another says, "no." Still it's a topic worthy of exploring I would think. To deny self-expression would defeat the Forum's purpose.

Who do we like the most ... those who can refrain? ... but then I talk too much ... and who will be ready to tell me that?

Whom would I ask about the effect, BAP?

@redbaron Reasons?

@Kuu Reasons?

-Duxwing
 

BigApplePi

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Duxwing Therapy

Whom would I ask about the effect, BAP?
Anyone who will answer including yourself plus your intuition on those who don't answer. Lay out those answers on a graph. Let's suppose the graph shows a normal (Bell) curve.
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...250&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:13,s:0,i:189

1. Consider what lies within one standard deviation. This is the general affect. Take the measure of it and balance what you want with what others want and make your decision.
2. Take the positive deviations. This represent those whom you've enlightened and your creativity. Make your decision.
3. Take the negative decisions. This represent those whom you've driven crazy enough and walk near cliffs. Examine your conscience and keep an eye out for the mods. If the mods lean on you, go in the direction of the pressure.

See how simple it is with a little analysis?:D. This initial counseling will be pro bono.
 

Duxwing

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Re: Duxwing Therapy

Anyone who will answer including yourself plus your intuition on those who don't answer. Lay out those answers on a graph. Let's suppose the graph shows a normal (Bell) curve.
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...250&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:13,s:0,i:189

1. Consider what lies within one standard deviation. This is the general affect. Take the measure of it and balance what you want with what others want and make your decision.
2. Take the positive deviations. This represent those whom you've enlightened and your creativity. Make your decision.
3. Take the negative decisions. This represent those whom you've driven crazy enough and walk near cliffs. Examine your conscience and keep an eye out for the mods. If the mods lean on you, go in the direction of the pressure.

See how simple it is with a little analysis?:D. This initial counseling will be pro bono.

Well, considering that Kuu and Fukyo told me to stop, I'll stop.

-Duxwing
 

BigApplePi

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Re: Duxwing Therapy

Well, considering that Kuu and Fukyo told me to stop, I'll stop.
-Duxwing
Good advice. Dux, I am poor at Se. But with effort I can bring it to passing consciousness. If you like, can you post a link (link only) to your last writing? I will give you an impression (Ne) FWIW. If that doesn't matter, no obligation, no worries.
 

Cavallier

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Well, considering that Kuu and Fukyo told me to stop, I'll stop.

-Duxwing

Oh thank goodness. :rip:

Ooooh Cav! May I ogle?

Luxuriant beard + Hugo Weaving = sexy.

Whoever would have guessed? Take two err... lets say celery and peanut butter - alone ewwww... but put them together, and BAM!! :hearts: Fine work!

Imagine him snuggling a kitten. Oh yeeeeaaaah. :o
 
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