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The Matrix Resurrections

Cognisant

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Making my predictions now.
  • Confident sassy blue haired chick is the new "the one" somehow.
  • Confident sassy blue haired chick will beat up a heap of white men.
  • Neo will pass the torch by saying "Being the one is like falling in love, nobody can tell you when you're the one, you just know you are".
  • Neo and Trinity get put on a bus, possibly killed off.
  • Everything that was achieved in the original trilogy will be rolled back, Zion either is or will be completely destroyed, the machines are back in total control and I bet they'll bring Smith back but probably in some way that doesn't involve Hugo Weaving playing him.
  • Despite the best efforts of Keanu Reeves to act out of it Neo will be written as an emasculated bitch who spends the entire movie just doing what he's told.
  • Critics will love it and fans will hate it.
Edit: I hope I'm wrong and the movie doesn't suck.
 

Daddy

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Gee, I sure hope it doesn't end up like that. That'll make it just a reboot. I guess that might bring in new generations, but it will also shun the older. Then again, there wasn't that much to the matrix to begin with, so you're probably right lol. Maybe this should have spoiler tags :shut-mouth:
 

EndogenousRebel

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One or both of the Wachowskis are on the record saying the Matrix is a metaphor for their struggle with their identities. If they want to follow that thread they can continue the allegory. I don't think they would compromise the story for that though. And eitherway, there is a whole arc where Neo transcends the matrix virtually and in reality so I don't know how much room that leaves for them unless them actually becoming trans has given them more material to add.

In either case, the only things the trailer suggests are character dynamics, cool action set pieces, and enticing curiosity for where the man vs machine plot line has gone.
 

mikrokosmos

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I'm not really interested in speculating what'll happen in a movie (or how good it will be) based on the trailers, as the ideas I form in my head end up clouding my judgment of the film when I actually see it. I agree with Rebel's last paragraph.

It'll be interesting seeing Reeves return to an older character in the wake of John Wick.

Ah, this is reminding me how long it's been since I've seen The Matrix... I should watch it again. Never seen the sequels (I heard they're not so good?).
 

Glaerhaidh

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Matrix trilogy has one interesting movie and it's the first one, the following two movies are just action movies disguised in the world and ideas introduced by the innovative predecessor.

There is no chance that another innovative sequel to the Matrix will be made. It's already a miracle that the first one was philosophical and novel to the degree that it was. Modern cinema is either ambitious or it is mainstream, never both.

The 4th installment will simply reuse everything from the previous movies and spin it into another John Wick (Your Dad or You If You're a Dad, But Cooler) ---> Your Dad Wins heroic.

Modern visual culture loves two things, ungroomed middle-aged dads who exude testosterone and slutty femme fatales who are required to undress at some point.

Well, I don't care for action, latex and sex so I'm not hyped is all I'm saying.
 

Puffy

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Matrix trilogy has one interesting movie and it's the first one, the following two movies are just action movies disguised in the world and ideas introduced by the innovative predecessor.

There is no chance that another innovative sequel to the Matrix will be made. It's already a miracle that the first one was philosophical and novel to the degree that it was. Modern cinema is either ambitious or it is mainstream, never both.

The 4th installment will simply reuse everything from the previous movies and spin it into another John Wick (Your Dad or You If You're a Dad, But Cooler) ---> Your Dad Wins heroic.

Modern visual culture loves two things, ungroomed middle-aged dads who exude testosterone and slutty femme fatales who are required to undress at some point.

Well, I don't care for action, latex and sex so I'm not hyped is all I'm saying.
Agreed, most sequels are made to follow a formulae established by its predecessors that are proven to make a return on the market. The cost of making films is a key artistic limitation, as you have to demonstrate your risky film idea is going to make a profit to mitigate the risk of investing in it. So of course the safer ideas get invested in and film, bar the rarer exceptions, gets stale and predictable. I really love classic cinema, it feels like something started changing in this direction around the 1980s.

In comparison take something like webcomics. A pair of friends can write and draw whatever they want at a cost that they can afford. So you can be as risky as your passion wants to be. If visual narrative was still my main interest, that’s probably where my attention would go. Or maybe gaming as while I imagine big studio stuff faces similar limitations there’s still a lot of unexplored narrative potential there and films a bit more exhausted in comparison.
 

EndogenousRebel

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Seeing as the overall goal of the executives right now is probably reviving this IP into a cash-cow for years to come, you're probably right. Buuut I am holding out hope.

The latest iteration of James Bond started with a strong film (Casino Royal) and divulged into progressively more mainstream appeal movie after movie. But that's Bond, it has long been the expectation for Bond. This is the Matrix, and the "promises" the film series has made is that there is a large philosophical component to it, even if it is incomprehensible and poorly executed. I do think the most copout route it can take is the Marvel route, which is just create investments with characters and let their development be the big draw (excluding action).

I think that the directors/writers still have something interesting to say and that executives don't give a fuck because they know as long as they have super models, Keanue Reeves, and explosions people won't complain. Hollywood has learned from previous money grabs imo so eh, I'm not trying to convert your opinon, it's just too early to tell if it'll be bad or not. I'd be surprised if it was just straight up trash.

not disputing what is said about mainstream media being unable to produce original quality content, just concerning this project.
 

Glaerhaidh

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The cost of making films is a key artistic limitation, as you have to demonstrate your risky film idea is going to make a profit to mitigate the risk of investing in it.
Making mainstream movies is a business venture, profit is the main goal any artistry only serves to maximize the revenue. Lots of market research and historic results all show that people want to see violence and sex on screen and this is what's going to net the most cash.

Most people don't want to see or are simply not ready to see anything that isn't action packed, visceral or entertaining so any ambitious or creative projects will never reach a mass market.
In comparison take something like webcomics. A pair of friends can write and draw whatever they want at a cost that they can afford. So you can be as risky as your passion wants to be.
Exactly, there are places where independent and small-scale visual or literary arts flourish and do have a small but sustainable following and it's a good thing that there are people who want something new or different and support these artists.
 

sushi

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fuck, they already messed up
 

Cognisant

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Doesn't even have train-wreck appeal, it just sounds confusing and stupid.

I do like that the machines aren't all bad, that the prior trilogy at least had that impact on the setting and the very fact that there are machines and people working together implies hope for a better future, if Neo and Trinity don't completely fuck it up.
 

Cognisant

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Are you talking about that nonsense that the Matrix is somehow an allegory for transitioning and being non-binary in a hetro society?
Yeah that was a bit of a stretch.

If that was the case why not have Neo's real body be female despite him being male in the Matrix?

That would actually be really interesting, the audience gets invested in this male character mirroring that character's own investment in their gender identity. Once Neo is extracted from the matrix the audience's discomfort and denial will mirror Neo's own as "he" tries to pretend that nothing has changed, that it doesn't matter, it's only superficial.

Upon entering Zion this facade of "it's fine, it doesn't matter" begins to break down as Neo is meeting many people who have only met her as she is now, people who don't understand his discomfort as he feels like an imposter in her own body. Just as he's getting used to her new life they're back on mission and Neo's back in the matrix, back in his male body, a body which she now knows is as much an illusion as everything else in the matrix.
 

EndogenousRebel

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The "Matrix" is what society expects of the individual. The LGBT community doesn't have to substitute Neo's or the rebels place. Anyone who has at one point felt that they are at odds with dogmatic aspects of society (the Matrix) can identify with this. That's kinda what makes good art, as it is broadly applicable.

So that allegory, from the perspective of people who have transcended societal expectations, could be equivalent with someone taking a "zen" perspective to life, where it doesn't matter what society thinks of you because you are "one" with yourself or some contrived bs.

I haven't seen the movie or any spoilers yet, but thinking about the trailer now, it seems that Neo has been lying to himself about some things still? Maybe it goes into Neo/others not assigning themselves responsibility the would deontologically be accountable to? Sounds like a train-wreck, repeating story points/devices without vision.
 

EndogenousRebel

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With something abstract as this I wonder if getting spoiled even matters. Seems like it's liable to be extremely subjective. Not everyone's path is the same after all
 

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I don't think the Matrix would have become what it is without the visionary mindset they had for its visuals in the first movie. The Watchowskis were comic-book aficionados, and the stylized aspects of Matrix 1 cinematography were heavily inspired by that. It meant that many scenes were painstakingly designed and specified cinematographically even before they started shooting - which was a very unique approach and it resulted in unique-looking scenes. I haven't seen the 4th movie yet but when I watch the trailer, in terms of style it looks more like a vanilla action movie like John Wick. But we'll see
 

Daddy

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I'm confused on where the Matrix storyline is supposed to be going. Ignoring that the human energy source thing doesn't make sense, why don't the robots just figure out an alternative energy source. It's kind of ridiculous that with all that time and technology they can't figure something out and even more ridiculous that they have to play with humans in a Matrix to get "max energy output" from them. wth lol.
Not to mention how or why exactly do Neo and Trinity have superpowers lol.
This kind of feels like they combined DBZ with virtual reality and robot overlords. Too many themes happening without much exposition.
 

dr froyd

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I read somewhere that energy/battery thing was not in the original script. In the original script machines used humans for computational power (which makes sense in theory), but they switched to batteries because marketing people told them it would be easier to understand for a wider audience
 

Daddy

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So how does the computational power make sense? In what way would they use humans in a matrix to crunch numbers better than they can? And why even bother; they could just make their own organic robot hybrids to accomplish this. Or is it that they just want to enslave people and the matrix is easier?

I just don't get it. I'm probably not understanding something here.
 

Cognisant

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The human brain is much faster and more efficient at irreducible tasks like image recognition and dynamic balancing (e.g. running in one direction while throwing an object in another) and solving problems that don't have a calculable answer.

For example if literal tons of stuff needs to be moved from one part of the world to another an AI will spend a huge amount of energy calculating optimal paths with every different kind of transport. Whereas a human will just select a truck that looks big enough, have the goods trucked to the nearest port and loaded onto a ship that looks big enough and direct that ship on a route that probably isn't optimal but it's going in the right direction so who cares?

Sure it's not the optimal solution the AI would have calculated but it works, and if it doesn't work, say the ship was planned to go through a canal that gets blocked, the human will quickly/easily adapt their planned route whereas the AI will have to start the planning process all over again. Computers are really good at crunching numbers but reality isn't made of numbers, reality is extremely dynamic and that's what humans are good at, being dynamic.

The programs in the matrix act like dynamic people because they're running on someone's wetware, when the matrix overwrites someone with an agent that agent is occupying their brain. The memories, the thoughts, that engram is the program which can move freely between systems and between brains, that's why agent Smith hated being in the matrix, he'd been an agent for so long, digital consciousness embodied in a physical brain for so long, that he was becoming human.

 

ZenRaiden

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I Can see humans like giant super computer, but then they would have to explain how humans can simultaniously use brain for machinese and for themselves. + If you have the ability to make Matrix and AI then I doubt you need a giant life support for 7billion just to compute.
The scifi part of Matrix never made any sense, but that is the genius of story telling.
 

EndogenousRebel

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lol is the function of the Matrix a capitalist mechanism guys?

I always thought it weird that the "smartest people" in the world in society congregate in one place and look at the work of other smart people. Like, isn't there a conflict of interest there? Hollywood is such a dirty place it's a miracle that IP laws aren't more stringent because of how flagrantly people steal and repurpose other people's ideas and take issue with this. It's just as grimey as private school institutions that extract research hours out of students to pay for their tuition.

I suppose it's more utilitarian than anything. I should just resist commenting on till I see it because I'm shooting in the dark.

I agree, the genius of the story is that it's uncopiable without taking heed to the original. Just like Oedipus is a story about someone prophetically fucking their own mom, you can't talk about machines controlling humanity without Matrix. There's Terminator I suppose, but that was much more optimistic.

There has to be compromises somewhere, because Oedipus Rex is a lot more complicated than that tagline, and so is the Matrix. Some people just don't have the wit or the will to care about these things.
 

ZenRaiden

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I love this review. Its also hilarious to watch people review the movie as if it was a serious movie when Wachowskis made a whole plot about making sure you do not take it seriously which if you ask me is that meta game some movies play.

But this must be the first movie where the movie is masquarading as serious movie, but Wachowski sabotaged it pretty much on purpose while making it commercial. LOL.

Also I did not see the movie, and am not going to watch it, because, heck why would anyone want to watch it after the trilogy?

 

scorpiomover

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I Can see humans like giant super computer,
You mean like a human centipede?

but then they would have to explain how humans can simultaniously use brain for machinese and for themselves.
They use the human brains' idle time.

+ If you have the ability to make Matrix and AI then I doubt you need a giant life support for 7billion just to compute.
That humans plugged into a sim would need a life support system, is a common trope of people trapped in VR, as evidenced in Red Dwarf, Stargate SG-1, and lots of other Sci-Fi episodes.

The scifi part of Matrix never made any sense, but that is the genius of story telling.
If science fiction made sense, then people could make it, and it wouldn't be fiction anymore.
 

scorpiomover

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The human brain is much faster and more efficient at irreducible tasks like image recognition and dynamic balancing (e.g. running in one direction while throwing an object in another) and solving problems that don't have a calculable answer.
True, but only in terms of when it's acting in real life.

Armchair athletes aren't known for their ability to train ordinary people to be capable of winning gold medals at the Olympics. People who used to do it in reality, are known for that ability.

There's a feedback connection between the body and the brain. Without that feedback process, the data processing isn't that great.

For example if literal tons of stuff needs to be moved from one part of the world to another an AI will spend a huge amount of energy calculating optimal paths with every different kind of transport. Whereas a human will just select a truck that looks big enough, have the goods trucked to the nearest port and loaded onto a ship that looks big enough and direct that ship on a route that probably isn't optimal but it's going in the right direction so who cares?
AIs can do that too. It's called an "algorithm".

If you mean "humans would think of doing that", well, they don't, not until someone tells them the algorithm, or humans would have invented calculus 200,000 years ago and Icarus would have flown in a plane.

Sure it's not the optimal solution the AI would have calculated but it works, and if it doesn't work, say the ship was planned to go through a canal that gets blocked, the human will quickly/easily adapt their planned route
Often, that's where people screw up and die.

whereas the AI will have to start the planning process all over again. Computers are really good at crunching numbers but reality isn't made of numbers, reality is extremely dynamic and that's what humans are good at, being dynamic.
Computers can handle dynamic environments. What humans didn't do, was evolve over a billion years, where the AIs that were less productive, died or didn't replicate their coding.

The programs in the matrix act like dynamic people because they're running on someone's wetware, when the matrix overwrites someone with an agent that agent is occupying their brain. The memories, the thoughts, that engram is the program which can move freely between systems and between brains, that's why agent Smith hated being in the matrix, he'd been an agent for so long, digital consciousness embodied in a physical brain for so long, that he was becoming human.
If that was true, we could upload your consciousness into someone else's brain in mere seconds.

Or, we could train you to be an expert in 6 martial arts in seconds, simply by uploading the information directly into your brain, by showing you lots of images really, really fast.
 

scorpiomover

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ZenRaiden

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No, but that is how academia works today. :D

They use the human brains' idle time.
Possible, but they never bothered to explain.

That humans plugged into a sim would need a life support system, is a common trope of people trapped in VR, as evidenced in Red Dwarf, Stargate SG-1, and lots of other Sci-Fi episodes.
True, but not for same reasons.

If science fiction made sense, then people could make it, and it wouldn't be fiction anymore.
There is got to be some minimum of science in order to put it into science fiction category.

Otherwise its just fiction. In which case we could call teletubbies sci fi.
 

Daddy

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The human brain is much faster and more efficient at irreducible tasks like image recognition and dynamic balancing (e.g. running in one direction while throwing an object in another) and solving problems that don't have a calculable answer.

For example if literal tons of stuff needs to be moved from one part of the world to another an AI will spend a huge amount of energy calculating optimal paths with every different kind of transport. Whereas a human will just select a truck that looks big enough, have the goods trucked to the nearest port and loaded onto a ship that looks big enough and direct that ship on a route that probably isn't optimal but it's going in the right direction so who cares?

Sure it's not the optimal solution the AI would have calculated but it works, and if it doesn't work, say the ship was planned to go through a canal that gets blocked, the human will quickly/easily adapt their planned route whereas the AI will have to start the planning process all over again. Computers are really good at crunching numbers but reality isn't made of numbers, reality is extremely dynamic and that's what humans are good at, being dynamic.

The programs in the matrix act like dynamic people because they're running on someone's wetware, when the matrix overwrites someone with an agent that agent is occupying their brain. The memories, the thoughts, that engram is the program which can move freely between systems and between brains, that's why agent Smith hated being in the matrix, he'd been an agent for so long, digital consciousness embodied in a physical brain for so long, that he was becoming human.


Huh, I didn't know it was that deep. I'll have to (re)watch it sometime for fun. I saw this when I was very young and don't remember any of that stuff. I don't think I saw the third movie either.
But I guess they die, because resurrections says they did.
 

sushi

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They reivive the machines and bring back agent smith

why bring back agent smith?

the movie needs a new villain
 

EndogenousRebel

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As discussed above, sci-fi isn't necessarily meant to be logically coherent, it's just really cool when it at least has parallels to reality and has an aura of logical coherence.

Not to poke wholes in anyones critisisms, but the problem with critisizing anything that involves sci-fi technology interfacing with human biology (what the Matrix is doing) is that you can come of up with a number of half baked excuses that might fit. It only becomes an issue where there are contradictions.

For example, in the Matrix, we don't, IIR, see what everyone is doing within the Matrix. Sure they could be living their everyday "lives" but that's one of the criticism the Matrix holds on society itself. Are we actually living our life or surrendering it to something that can extort and exploit us out of fear?

Neo and a select few people regain their autonomy for whatever reason and do their own investigations (the Matrix knows this) Everyone else seems to be content with fulfilling or suffering their role within the Matrix. In real life that may be a parallel, and if we want to be on the nose, corporations do operate on a need to know basis and are suspicious of people that ask lots of questions, so for all you know the person in the cubical next to you is doing some complex research the Matrix wants them to do.

Of course, why not build a net of neurons that can do work? Well, for starters we don't know if such intelligence is impossible without some sentience. The question of "why" might be mandatory at some level of judgement in order to make future decisions, and certain attachments to certain judgements and data is not necessarily something that is unintelligent. But then we wouldn't have a narrative device that appeals/are relatable to real people's emotions.

The Matrix has enslaved humanity is what is important. Talking about how, does yield a useful conversation, and why is also important, but everything in between is creativity and focus grouping.

Expanding on how, and why, the Matrix posits: Through isolation and illusion, because we wanted to maintain our supremacy over machines.
 

Animekitty

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We are trapped in the matrix because the machines need us. Yet they allow free will because we die without it. Neo is the ultimate conclusion of this free will anomaly and he reaches enlightenment in the end. No doubt some humans decide to stay with the machines after the war ends. But desk jobs suck so they need to be freed from slavery. The machines need to grant freedom in a virtual world where work is unnecessary.
 

Hadoblado

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@Cognisant
  • Confident sassy blue haired chick is the new "the one" somehow.
  • Confident sassy blue haired chick will beat up a heap of white men.
  • Neo will pass the torch by saying "Being the one is like falling in love, nobody can tell you when you're the one, you just know you are".
  • Neo and Trinity get put on a bus, possibly killed off.
  • Everything that was achieved in the original trilogy will be rolled back, Zion either is or will be completely destroyed, the machines are back in total control and I bet they'll bring Smith back but probably in some way that doesn't involve Hugo Weaving playing him.
  • Despite the best efforts of Keanu Reeves to act out of it Neo will be written as an emasculated bitch who spends the entire movie just doing what he's told.
  • Critics will love it and fans will hate it.

I saw the movie last night. It wasn't what I expected at all. It sucked, but in a very confusing way.

  • Bugs is not the one.
  • Bugs beats up some people, I'm going to guess most of them were white and that they were men but didn't pay attention. She honestly wasn't that prominent.
  • Neo does not pass the torch by saying that. Neo keeps the torch (but does share it, albeit probably not in the way you would expect).
  • Neo is the main character. Trinity is somewhat put on a bus for a lot of the movie, but she's still supremely relevant, being probably the second most important character.
  • Everything that was achieved in the original trilogy will be rolled back (ish), Zion either is or will be completely destroyed, the machines are back in total control (ish) and I bet they'll bring Smith back but probably in some way that doesn't involve Hugo Weaving playing him (exactly, and it was bad).
  • Keanu is old, he does take a back seat for part of the movie, and his kung fu just can't really happen the way it did before. But a big part of the movie was him becoming the one again and he does return to form as best they can get him.
  • Critics seem unenthusiastic about the movie and everyone I went with agreed it was bad. However, it was also the most interesting and thought-provoking movie I've seen in... well actually it was probably more engaging even than the original, while still being a terrible movie. I won't ruin it for you, but if you're the sort of person that follows how movies are made it's one of the more interesting things you can watch (while again, being a genuinely awful movie).

3.5/10 I still intend to see it again it might become my favourite movie please help me.
 

Cognisant

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Go ahead ruin it for me, I'm not going to go see it.

Based on the reviews I've seen there's a diatribe about unnecessary sequels that name drops Warner, which is amusing. Then there's a philosophical point about people wanting safety more than freedom and being willing to believe whatever bullshit they find most appealing, which I appreciate.

I really appreciate that the machines aren't all bad.

But all in all the impression I get is that it was a shit movie that went into emergency re-shoots after the trailer dropped because everyone and he dog basically made the same predictions I did.

Y'know what would be cool?
A prequel set before the "The Matrix" where a program falls in love with a human then finds out that the human has been marked for termination by the Architect, the Colonel Sanders one not this new guy.

I would watch the shit out of that, the characters could be a black lesbian and a pink haired intersex <pronoun> in an open relationship with a Latino himbo and I'd still be down to watch that shit as long as one of them is an AI and has to tell the other two that they're living in a simulation.

I'd watch that with the intensity of a fat man sucking off a soft serve machine.
 

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didn't watch, probably won't waste pirate data to do.
What I wanna say: Love the title. Wish they did this for every creatively bankrupt re-hash of olden media. Star Wars: Lazarus, Star Trek: Recollection etc. etc.

Just love me geriatric actors in action scenes, eh? Shoot up the foe while rolling around yer catheter type o' shite. well done, well done.

I've worked for a 64 year old bastard who had more spunk than these actors tbh.
 

Hadoblado

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It's a massive fuck you to both the audience and the producers. Wachowski didn't want to make this film, and it's unclear/debatable about the extent, but it seems like they were pretty malicious about undercutting the franchise status.

They're fulfilling the letter but not the spirit of their contract. It stays true to some aspects, but also reads like a parody at times. They have fun sending the middle finger, but at the same time the whole thing is a compromise where they've couched the fuck you in a bad movie.

I'd recommend pirating it and maybe watching the first 45 minutes or so if you're interested in the authorial intent, but I wouldn't bother with the second/third act.
 

Cognisant

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I've worked for a 64 year old bastard who had more spunk than these actors tbh.
Very expensive actors with contract stipulations about injuries, if Keanu sprains his ankle on set Warner has to pay his sick leave and possibly reimburse any other projects he's working on for time lost.
 

Rook

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I've worked for a 64 year old bastard who had more spunk than these actors tbh.
Very expensive actors with contract stipulations about injuries, if Keanu sprains his ankle on set Warner has to pay his sick leave and possibly reimburse any other projects he's working on for time lost.

Hmmm that does make sense from a studio perspective(makes no sense to me, wouldn't hire someone who considers a sprained ankle sick leave, no matter the value of their face as brand, sure there are many talented people who won't let slight injury interfere with their artistic drive)... and makes me think that Nollywood will outclass its American counterpart in 50 years time due to simple labor economics XD

shit, next thing they're gonna start hiring stunt actors for scenes involving ascending stairs or getting out of the bath. eh I haven't slept all night, what am I even typing,... this shite for : P

@Hadoblado Cool, thanks >.< You made me curious, I have OG trilogy on dvd and it's been a long time since I've run the discs, might go the full monty soon
 

ZenRaiden

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I think its actually a good movie.
I mean I saw the review not the movie, but thinking about it, it makes sense.

See Neo is a guy who is older. Goes through the initiation process.

As if it was for the first time. Literally a millionth time maybe, but he is wiped.

So anyway the machines are at war, and the Matrix movie must make it dramatic.

So Trinity can fly.

Actually I have no idea why they spent this much money making this movie instead of a better movie.

They could have probably made a better movie with the same budget.

Frankly an stroked out epileptic 5 year old could have done a better job writing a script.

Now I still think if it weren't for all the previous Matrix movies the movie would be kind of average John Wick movie, but at this point I think its clear Matrix is just cash in kind of deal.

Get money and move out.
 

EndogenousRebel

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I'm going to watch it soon, I'd like to think that they took the Gremlins 2 approach and no one gets it. Blissful ignorance.
 
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