Relationship with emotionally demanding GF (ENFP) is tiring as an INTP. How do you guys do it?

[Drvladivostok]

I just got into a relationship (romantic) with this ENFP girl, picked her to eat out and chat, tried our chemistry. Turns out we have some similiarity in mindset, can tolerate eacothers company and political-view, for some reason her occasional bull-headedness matches well with my laid back and disengaged nature, but the most glaring rift seem to be her constant need of affection and my very shallow supply of it.

Earlier in our second date, she confessed that I confuse her, I was replying to messages late, didn't respond to her approach correctly, didn't chat with her with proper template for a BF. She said I was too mechanical in my approach.

I mean I don't mind asking her how she's going everynight, everytime we meet I ask out on her interest, I try to make time for our dates even when I'm busy. What more do I need to do? She said her ex would writer her poems and love letters, un imaginably cringe.

See seems to want more attention than I can provide, she would bombard me with stickers each showing the same characters with differing emotional expression ranging from happy to angry to sad conveying her current state, and these stickers would be sent frequently relative to how long I haven't message her.

This emotional blitzkrieg would excerbate my exhaustion in trying to communicate with her and that in turn would provoke her further.

I was able to court ber easily because she was very direct and decissive about her desire which in turn makes the courting process very quickly.

Now I feel like I bit more than I can swallow aahaha, So any of you fellas have/had any ENFP girl?

 

[dr froyd]

i remember one girl thought i was angry at her because i didn't use emojis in text messages

like wtf i don't have time to craft every message to convey the right emotion. I simply don't deal with that kind of people, no offense to them

 

[birdsnestfern]

Will have to know your limit and only be around a high needs person in small amounts or else you will feel drained. If you find yourself yawning, or feeling tired around them, they are draining you. Some extroverts are energy vampires. Better to just know your limits and express that to her, that you can have fun doing day trips on weekends and then need down time to recuperate. Ask her to let her friends give her whatever other emotional needs since you are not good at that. Just be up front. If she really needs a lot of extra support that you can't give, don't fake it, it will erode you over time.

 

[Drvladivostok]

Will have to know your limit and only be around a high needs person in small amounts or else you will feel drained. If you find yourself yawning, or feeling tired around them, they are draining you. Some extroverts are energy vampires. Better to just know your limits and express that to her, that you can have fun doing day trips on weekends and then need down time to recuperate.

"Energy Vampire".

Damn straight. She would ramble and ramble and ramble on aboit her day and ignore my input non-stop for 15 minutes and I'd just sit there in the verge of comatose. She would also demand me to phone her at 22.00 - 00.00 everyday. Even when I'm still at work.

I guess I'll have to talk to her about boundaries. Tomorrow.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Yes, the most important thing with an insecure person is to let them know you care a lot, and are not angry at all. It could be they think the space in between means you don't like them, just tell her thats completely not true, introverts are built differently and just need a lot of down time between interactions. Or, that the phone issue is not ideal for you, that you will phone twice a week at a certain time, so she feels like you are still talking and to trust that you like her.

 

[threeStepfourStep]

I assume that you want to keep pursuing this relationship, so just tell her you have energy limits and that's on your part, not hers. Be open about your capacity and see if she'll understand. It's not necessarily boundaries that's the problem, I think she still doesn't understand how you operate. Being respectful of someone's emotional boundaries/capacity is a learned skill that requires a lot of experience. I think if you want the relationship to prolong, see it as a growth process for the both of you.

 

[Puffy]

Ultimately you probably just need to talk about it and see if you can arrive at a dynamic that's sustainable for you both where you both feel your needs are met.

 

[Hadoblado]

The more transparent you can be the better. I've had similar issues in the past and the big hurdle is having both of you understand the difference in needs, the difference in predispositions, and the amount of compromise you both have to spend on adjusting.

Personally, I have areas where I'm able to compromise a lot, and areas where I struggle to compromise at all. Pretending to care about the constant onslaught of empty talk is something I can't compromise on. And even if I did, that's usually not what people are looking for when they do it. I also need to disconnect for some period of the day - so constant texts are not something I can do.

One thing that helps with this is Gary Chapman's five love languages. I know it's odd to be doing literal marriage counseling when you've just started dating, but it helps people communicate these otherwise difficult to convey concepts in a way that bridges gender divides.

• Words of Affirmation – verbal compliments, appreciation, encouragement.
• Acts of Service – doing helpful things for your partner.
• Receiving Gifts – thoughtful presents or gestures.
• Quality Time – focused, undivided attention.
• Physical Touch – affection through touch (hugs, hand-holding, etc.).

 

[Cognisant]

See seems to want more attention than I can provide, she would bombard me with stickers each showing the same characters with differing emotional expression ranging from happy to angry to sad conveying her current state, and these stickers would be sent frequently relative to how long I haven't message her.

This emotional blitzkrieg would excerbate my exhaustion in trying to communicate with her and that in turn would provoke her further.

She's testing you.

Suppose I'm your IRL friend and I start hassling you like this, policing how you talk to me, pushing you to be more expressive, taking up lots of your time, doing what this woman is doing, would you take that shit from me?

No because it's disrespectful.

So why are you taking this shit from her, because she lets you stuff her holes? That's a terrible reason, being in a relationship with someone isn't an alternative to being friends with them, it's more like friendship DLC.

Women say they want certain things but what's important to understand about them is that all women are pathological liars, not that it's their fault, the hormones make them crazy. She tells you she wants you to basically simp for her but that's absolutely not what she wants, she doesn't want a simp, she wants a man, and the difference is that a man will say no. A man can say no because he's not afraid of her leaving him, he knows his worth, he knows she wants him, because if she didn't want him she wouldn't be seeking more of his attention.

You need to be an asshole sometimes... it's difficult to explain.

You don't want to be actually abusive or cruel or disrespect her too much, but there's a range of behaviors between that and being a good boy where you're being the dominant one in the relationship but you're not taking it too far. It's like being rough in the bedroom, you don't actually want to hurt her but if you can be rough with her without taking it too far she'll be really into it.

There's this really dumb thing where both men and women approach relationships as though the other person wants what they want, for example guys who get really hung up on being physically attractive and good in bed. Women are not men, they do like a hot body and good sex but it doesn't matter to them in the same way it matters to a guy, likewise women treat men the way they want to be treated. Not that she wants you to be really demanding of her time and policing how she talks to you (well... kinda?) but if you demand things her she'll really be into that.

For example there's the classic "make me a sandwich" now I wouldn't say that exactly because there's a whole cultural thing around it, but in principle that's exactly what she wants from you. Which I know sounds really strange because in your experience she's trying to dominate you, she's the one being demanding of you, if she thinks of herself so highly why would she want to serve you? Because you're thinking like a man, we're hierarchical, women have something else going on that's a lot more nuanced, basically she wants your attention (you get this already) but more specifically she wants to be part of your life.

In a word I think it's a matter of affirmation, she wants you to tell her to do something wifey and when she does it you praise her and for her that's incredibly affirming of your relationship, you're demonstrating that you value her for her capabilities and not just the space between her legs.

Affirmation = Less anxiety = Less demanding behaviours.

Also understand that women are really really bad at telling you when they want something, they can easily lie about wanting something else but when it's something they actually want you won't hear a peep. If you're only doing it once a week because she's not really prompting you for it and you don't want to push her too much, stop being an idiot, go squish that cat.

 

[Hadoblado]

 

[Cognisant]

 

[Hadoblado]

To clarify, I think Cog you have some top-down ideas about women, rather than treating them as individuals. For example, it's pretty naive to think that all women want rough sex, to make you a sandwich, or are bad communicators/pathological liars.

You don't know this person. You might be right but if you are, it's by chance alone. There is no one size fits all and if someone acts on these assumptions and they're incorrect, game over.

Sex/relationships is extremely mythologised due to the social taboo of talking about it. Getting your education from redpill (woke) slop is retarded though.

 

[Cognisant]

To clarify, I think Cog you have some top-down ideas about women, rather than treating them as individuals. For example, it's pretty naive to think that all women want rough sex, to make you a sandwich

Yes it's called a generalization.

Men like blowjobs, if you want to be a pedant about it I haven't personally interviewed every man on Earth about it and there's undoubtedly conditions to this fact, just because men generally like blowjobs doesn't mean they generally like giving them or receiving them from another man or having their dick sucked by a crackhead with a mouth full of sharp rotted teeth. Obviously.

And that's the key thing here, that it's obviously a generalization, we both know it's a generalization so when you essentially say "not all-" you are purposefully misinterpreting me to be a pedant about it. It's tiresome, stop it.

However if you think my generalization isn't generally true, now you have argument, which you need to back up with some kind of evidence, and yes I realize it's difficult to give concrete evidence one way or another about a generalization so it's fine to simply state "well based on my experience this isn't generally true" and I can't contradict that because I don't have your lived experience, nor do you have mine.

or are bad communicators/pathological liars.

"Pathological" was hyperbole, obviously they're not incapable of telling the truth, but aside from that I stand by my assertion, specifically as it pertains to relationships and again I stress that this isn't their fault. It's like how men are stupid when they're horny and yes I know some men are asexual you pedantic ass, but in general it's true, it's a well known and exploited fact in several industries.

As to why it's the case that women are bad at communicating in relationships (they may talk a lot but that's not the same) I speculate it's because they're inherently more nuanced, not inherently duplicitous per say rather it's much easier for a man to know himself, we're like dogs, and women are like space shuttles.

Also we live in a culture that propagandizes the idea that women ought occupy the man's role in a relationship or be more like men or judged as though they were men, which is really not healthy. The very concept that men and women are as mentally different as they are physically different* is met with derision but I think that should be obvious, natural selection doesn't give a damn about what's currently the fashion in political correctness.

*: i.e. 90% the same with a few small but important differences.

if someone acts on these assumptions and they're incorrect, game over.

My problem here is that I lack the language to articulate my point, I'm not advocating being an asshole but the modern man is so utterly terrified of the possibility of being an asshole that it impairs his ability to function as a man.

Women want the feeling of security that comes with a man who can show confidence, assertiveness and authority, to feel the affirmation of a man who can rely on her as a woman, to feel secure in that she's his woman.

 

[Hadoblado]

I'm not here to argue with you Cog. This is an advice thread and my advice was not to follow your advice because it's bad. You bring too much baggage and bullshit.

He is courting a woman, not the concept of women as per the red pill. He should seek to understand the woman, not some low resolutions vague bullshit incel ideology about how all women behave according to Cog, bona fide woman understander.

Treating any individual you're seeking a relationship with as a statistic is deeply retarded, autistic, or both.

 

[threeStepfourStep]

I'd just brush it off as banter.

Plus I think we should give a bit of imagination here, since the cultural contexts are different. I'd imagine an Indonesian lady meaning a bit more different than an Australian girl in the context in which Drvladivostok puts it.

Cog's T fatalism is kind of amusing.

In the end dating is just connection. If you have the heart for connection, your actions automatically gush forth to try and convey your person.

Actually re-reading Cog's first post, I think what he means is light teasing. I mean yeah, that works when the relationship is great, but it shouldn't be a strategy in trying to establish a connection.

 

[Cognisant]

Actually re-reading Cog's first post, I think what he means is light teasing. I mean yeah, that works when the relationship is great, but it shouldn't be a strategy in trying to establish a connection.

Oh good someone gets it.

Drvladivostok's complaint is that she's too high maintenance in terms of attention so it seems to me they've been together a while and obviously she's keen on him, but she's also pushing him away because she wants something from him that she's not getting.

In my own experience such intensive attention seeking behaviour is actually affirmation seeking behaviour, which isn't something she can simply ask for, it's not something Drvladivostok can simply promise to her, that doesn't affirm anything.

She wants him to kinda take ownership of her, which sounds bad, the feminists have done an amazing job of shaping language such that it's hard to talk about relationships in some way that doesn't have some baked in negative connotations and it's really frustrating because it's difficult for me to explain something which isn't like that, it's actually a good thing.

This is why everyone's not marrying or getting divorced these days and the birth rate is catastrophically bad and everyone's got some kind of mental illness, we're all fucked up, our Western Liberal culture is fucking poison.

 

[Puffy]

Maybe start with having a chat about the current dynamic first before getting to the ordering sandwiches and rough sex bit.

 

[Drvladivostok]

Women say they want certain things but what's important to understand about them is that all women are pathological liars, not that it's their fault, the hormones make them crazy. She tells you she wants you to basically simp for her but that's absolutely not what she wants, she doesn't want a simp, she wants a man, and the difference is that a man will say no. A man can say no because he's not afraid of her leaving him, he knows his worth, he knows she wants him, because if she didn't want him she wouldn't be seeking more of his attention.

You need to be an asshole sometimes... it's difficult to explain.

Regardless of the overgeneralized undertone I agree with the most part.

Woman and men are completely different in what they want in a relationship, and I agree that woman-either it is part of their biological hardwiring or just a developed strategy-sometimes 'test' men on how they handle their demands and stress in general.

Even if they sometimes aren't aware of it and that tendency spills over to general interaction and makes everything a mess.

In general I think the reasons why playing the mating game is so hard for INTP is because the lack of Fi we don't know what we REALLY WANT, or even if we bave some general understanding of it we don't want it as passionately when there's so many variables to consider, and boy do I tell you emotions and woman are more undredictable then the Three Body Problem.

So we're wearry of asserting ourself even though I have complete faith that we're capable of it, it's the "afraid to dip but not afraid to swim" situation.

stop being an idiot, go squish that cat.

SEXOOO.

 

[birdsnestfern]

When men age, their testosterone drops and estrogen kicks in. Low testosterone is what causes depression and moodiness and grumpy older men. When women fall in love, emotions can go all over the place, but the main idea is, she might be testing how you endure, do you endure and try to work around it and stay with her, or do you flake out and not care enough to try. Your intention and her intention and end goal are what are really going to matter. Ask deep questions, like "what are your short term goals and what are your long term goals individually and in the relationship you have? Then share your own and see if there is anything compatible. If you don't have a LOT of things in common, you will be miserable. If you really like her and care, then work around and set the intention you need to BOTH overcome each others obstacles or else, its not a two way street. The two ways need to be part of the whole thing, give and take. True intentions are hard to see through, but are really what you need to discern from it all.