NO Emotional Dilemma

[Grayman]

I have realized that I cannot remember a single time I asked for advice to handle an emotional dilemma since I was 17 and that was 11 years ago.

I don't feel stubborn but I do feel that I don't need help. Am I under some grand delusion? What would be the right questions to ask myself and determine my motives. It doesn't seem realistic to not have emotional dilemmas but here I am wondering if this is normal.

Maybe it is normal for some....? Maybe I have had an easy life but it seems that the people around me are living an emotional dilemma. Seems they have more than a few a day. Do they create these issues in their head, or am I blind? No, I see the issues they speak of but they all seem so solvable or insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps I should be worrying about those who suffer from these issues but how do make them feel better and validated if their worries seem so invalid and so unimportant?

So many rambling questions. I think I am right but am I? How do I sympathize with those who worry over nothing? I try as I might but is it even right?

 

[Latte]

I tend to see it as an issue where someone's ability to perceive a situation and possible outcomes of actions significantly outstrips the person's capacity to (whether in error or not) deduce, induce, or measure which course is the better to take.

It's kind of a false dichotomy as both are involved in any process.

Both abilities are variable and can be impaired by stress or associations with certain situations and such.

There is also the ability to perceive potential flaws in one's own deduction, induction and measurement, which deprives oneself from a set of conclusions regarding how to deal with a situation.

In sum, there are people who are top 1% person-perceptive who can't even speak in a relatively unimportant social situation, precisely because they can't handle everything they see, and there are people in the lowest 10% who have no issue taking grand life altering decisions, because they can evaluate what they have noticed and come up with a course of action based on it. And then there are also people in the top 1% of perceptiveness who have judgement abilities to match their capacity for perception and lowest 10% who don't have the judgement abilities to match their capacity for perception.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

I'm not INTP but when I have an emotional problem I think about it and come to my own conclusions but the act of sharing my thought process and feelings ends up clarifying the situation. It's not so much needing advice but it's a similar process when I debate an issue. I may start out having a stance but the process of talking it out helps sharpen and define my position. (Sometimes my mind is changed through this process.) In fact this forum is a great example.

A dilemma is a choice between two undesirable alternatives. Often the choice is highly personal. One choice may not be right for everyone so it requires some self examination.
I'd suggest you do an experiment. Next time you have an emotional problem/issue, go through you're usual way of dealing with it but then try and talk about it and see if it helps or hurts. You're bound to learn something from it.

The fact that you haven't reached out for help could mean a number of things. But in a way you are asking this forum if this is 'normal'. So maybe you've considered that not asking for advice could be a form of self-deception. Maybe you're breaking out of your typical pattern?

 

[NoID10ts]

My whole life is one big emotional dilemma.

 

[Cherry Cola]

You seem sympathetic, if you don't got no trouble I don't see the issue :P

Plus, you don't need to directly ask questions to learn from others anyway.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

I have realized that I cannot remember a single time I asked for advice to handle an emotional dilemma since I was 17 and that was 11 years ago.

I don't feel stubborn but I do feel that I don't need help. Am I under some grand delusion? What would be the right questions to ask myself and determine my motives. It doesn't seem realistic to not have emotional dilemmas but here I am wondering if this is normal.

Explanation: either you are lucky to have avoided the emotional turmoil that interpersonal drama brings and/or you are a sociopath If its all a grand delusion 'twould be a desirable one.

 

[BigApplePi]

I have realized that I cannot remember a single time I asked for advice to handle an emotional dilemma since I was 17 and that was 11 years ago.

Emotional dilemma? What emotional dilemma? Aren't all dilemmas emotional? I would have the need to ask for advice further input if the solution involved other people. Examples: two jobs to take where each had unknowns and you knew people who worked there. Two movies to go to where each had unknowns and someone else saw one or both.

I don't feel stubborn but I do feel that I don't need help. Am I under some grand delusion? What would be the right questions to ask myself and determine my motives. It doesn't seem realistic to not have emotional dilemmas but here I am wondering if this is normal.

You could go to some silly internet forum and ask, "Am I under some grand delusion?" testing if it has something to say. But if you do that won't you be breaking some 11+ year pattern? I caution you on taking advice from any silly internet forums.

Maybe it is normal for some....? Maybe I have had an easy life but it seems that the people around me are living an emotional dilemma. Seems they have more than a few a day. Do they create these issues in their head, or am I blind? No, I see the issues they speak of but they all seem so solvable or insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps I should be worrying about those who suffer from these issues but how do make them feel better and validated if their worries seem so invalid and so unimportant?

Are these issues valid to them? You didn't present any examples ... which would help.

So many rambling questions. I think I am right but am I? How do I sympathize with those who worry over nothing? I try as I might but is it even right?

Not everyone is an introvert. Maybe these worries are their way of socialization.

 

[Grayman]

Emotional dilemma? What emotional dilemma? Aren't all dilemmas emotional? I would have the need to ask for advice further input if the solution involved other people. Examples: two jobs to take where each had unknowns and you knew people who worked there. Two movies to go to where each had unknowns and someone else saw one or both.

I am constantly problem solving but it is different in that one is like answering a math problem and the emotional dilemma is completely emotional. Emotional Dilemma is best described as having two strong emotions pulling you two ways at once and you cannot decide how you should feel and cannot make a decision on the topic.

You could go to some silly internet forum and ask, "Am I under some grand delusion?" testing if it has something to say. But if you do that won't you be breaking some 11+ year pattern? I caution you on taking advice from any silly internet forums.

No, I don't think so, but I might be misunderstanding. I can describe the reason I did it... I had the idea that my constant firm emotional foundation is the result of a superior emotional intelligence. I recognized the dangers of Hubris breaking my defenses immediately. To prevent the 'rise before the fall' and the consequences thereof. I arrested Hubris and put him up for questioning. So it is here that Hubris will meet his ultimate fate. Was this process emotional? I don't recognize any emotional reaction but I do see a logical and decisive action based on past experience and knowledge. Since I don't recognize this as an emotional dilemma, I guess I do not recognize this as breaking the cycle. For me this is a science experiment that would better advance my understanding of myself and how I perceive life. (Perhaps I just view this as a valid explanation because I don't want to be accused of breaking the cycle but it seems doubtful. I think I have hubris under control at this point.)

Are these issues valid to them? You didn't present any examples ... which would help.

They are always valid to them or they would not be having an emotional reaction to them. I can recognize this and empathize but not sympathize. Sympathy requires an emotional understanding as well that for me requires me to put myself in their shoes. The moment I am there shoes, I see no reason to be upset and it becomes impossible to sympathize.

Example: A man calls Terisa a ugly bitch. I place myself in Terisa shoes. "Why do I care what this man thinks. He is a heartless and unintelligent person whose opinion means little to nothing. Granted there are things to be learned from him at times but nothing is worth deciding as truth when received by this man." Cannot fully sympathize but can understand what makes her upset" Sympathy is based on an old memory and the sympathy is very slight.
Repsonse, "Terisa I am sorry for this, he is not a very considerate person and I would not be too concerned with what he said. I find you to be a very beautiful person and more importantly most everyone enjoys your company and having you around." Showed Empathy.

Example2: Terisa finds her favorite plate broken. Unable to understand the emotion or why it is important. NO sympathy.
I don't understand it but it means something to her and since she means something to me I don't want her to suffer, I should make her feel better.
I am sorry your plate broke, I know how much it means to you. *hug
Showed Empathy.

 

[Grayman]

I'm not INTP but when I have an emotional problem I think about it and come to my own conclusions but the act of sharing my thought process and feelings ends up clarifying the situation. It's not so much needing advice but it's a similar process when I debate an issue. I may start out having a stance but the process of talking it out helps sharpen and define my position. (Sometimes my mind is changed through this process.) In fact this forum is a great example.

A dilemma is a choice between two undesirable alternatives. Often the choice is highly personal. One choice may not be right for everyone so it requires some self examination.
I'd suggest you do an experiment. Next time you have an emotional problem/issue, go through you're usual way of dealing with it but then try and talk about it and see if it helps or hurts. You're bound to learn something from it.

The fact that you haven't reached out for help could mean a number of things. But in a way you are asking this forum if this is 'normal'. So maybe you've considered that not asking for advice could be a form of self-deception. Maybe you're breaking out of your typical pattern?

I have reviewed my mental pattern and have determined that the reason for my lack of 'emotional' dilemma is that for me it is a logical dilemma. My emotions are often an end result as apposed to an integral part to the decision making process. I holistically view the whole problem and the main values of what it is I wish to achieve and then make a decision. Then I determine examine what I feel and allow them if they provide an advantage to the situation. Often Anger will not and so it is disregarded. Passion or love of the person can be useful for communicating the sympathy so I will pull that emotion out and release it. Generally this is how it works for me. I remember when I was younger I would feel the decisions and emotions and make a decision based on what felt right. Things are much different now. For better or worse I don't know.


****** side thought ******

I view it as a result of emotional intelligence but perhaps I am just a sociopath, as 'Dr' Greg says. I could care less if that is the case. I only want to achieve a life that helps and comforts others. I place judgment on choice above my mental processes and whether those processes would be deemed sociopathic is of little consequence unless it gets in the way of living healthy and providing a healthy environment for those around me.

There was a time I thought I was Schizoid...

 

[Grayman]

Plus, you don't need to directly ask questions to learn from others anyway.

It is true that I make an effort of doing this. It is good to know that I have made some progress in doing it also.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Grayman]

My whole life is one big emotional dilemma.

I am sorry to hear this. It seems such a life would be lacking in peace and contentment. I could not imagine living without the comfort of these things.

 

[BigApplePi]

Example: A man calls Terisa a ugly bitch. I place myself in Terisa shoes. "Why do I care what this man thinks. He is a heartless and unintelligent person whose opinion means little to nothing. Granted there are things to be learned from him at times but nothing is worth deciding as truth when received by this man." Cannot fully sympathize but can understand what makes her upset" Sympathy is based on an old memory and the sympathy is very slight.
Repsonse, "Terisa I am sorry for this, he is not a very considerate person and I would not be too concerned with what he said. I find you to be a very beautiful person and more importantly most everyone enjoys your company and having you around." Showed Empathy.

I see you didn't ask advice about this. You do need to ask advice because that is the wrong answer IMO.
(1) You don't know he is an unintelligent and heartless person. He may be angry. Terisa may have irritated him.
(2) Terisa could have provoked him. Need to eliminate this possibility.

Terisa may have feared there is truth in what the man said. Not that there is truth, but she may have been reminded of when her girlfriend put her down for how she looked. The man could have picked up she would be offended because he knew her vulnerability. Your saying that to her would have helped but not if her neurosis went deep enough. Oh. I forgot. What if she loved the man and she sees him differently than you do?

Example2: Terisa finds her favorite plate broken. Unable to understand the emotion or why it is important. NO sympathy.
I don't understand it but it means something to her and since she means something to me I don't want her to suffer, I should make her feel better.
I am sorry your plate broke, I know how much it means to you. *hug
Showed Empathy.

If Teresa were a child this could work. But what if that plate went deep representing decades of memories? Then she might be grateful to you for your empathy, but it would not cure her pain.

 

[Grayman]

I see you didn't ask advice about this. You do need to ask advice because that is the wrong answer IMO.
(1) You don't know he is an unintelligent and heartless person. He may be angry. Terisa may have irritated him.
(2) Terisa could have provoked him. Need to eliminate this possibility.

1a) I was under the impression when I made the example that I knew him and he has made numerous comments such as this to multiple people and often resorts to inappropriate action with people.
2a) Terisa has always been a sensitive person and would never, under any normal condition, resort to such things. My knowledge of the man also supports the idea that she is innocent.

Suppose I do not know the man...
1) I would agree that this may be true for the person under normal circumstance, but while driven by anger he is both illogical and heartless. To make such a statement, at that point of time as he did, he is both at that time.
2) If she did or not, it does not eliminate that fact that he let himself resort to malice. It does not eliminate his guilt, it only puts further guilt on her.

I always question after I let her know that she is safe in confiding in me and that she knows that I am looking out for her well being even if I say something she does not want to hear. I believe it wise for you to show sympathy first and then advise and question second.

If Teresa were a child this could work. But what if that plate went deep representing decades of memories? Then she might be grateful to you for your empathy, but it would not cure her pain.

There is nothing that can cure the pain, short of time. Since she is a sensitive woman, to think in terms of finding solution would be the wrong idea. This is even true for non-sensitive woman but they require less affection but still require the idea that you care about their loss. For this example, she needs to feel that you are there to support and mourn with her. Questioning her and trying to find a solution would lead to irritation and a feeling that you do not understand her. All that needs to be done is a bit of comfort and then listening.

 

[BigApplePi]

Grayman. The issue I find of interest is you have not found the need to call on others when you see a person in difficulty ... at least so goes your OP.

Maybe I have had an easy life but it seems that the people around me are living an emotional dilemma.

A second reading of what you've said says that you seem to have handled the emotional issues of others rather well. Good show. I grant you you may have good emotional intelligence, but it is enough?

Let's make it more difficult for you. We have a test case right here on this thread: NoID10ts. This is a situation of no mean difficulty.

My whole life is one big emotional dilemma.

This is a guy whose says his entire life is one emotional dilemma. From birth to the present if we are to take his word. Here is how you replied:

I am sorry to hear this. It seems such a life would be lacking in peace and contentment. I could not imagine living without the comfort of these things.

Let's assume it is helpful. You have presented an image of peace and contentment which counters his situation. Now suppose he says, "Thank you very much for your consideration but that is not enough. I remain in a terrible state." What would you do?

I had a conversation with this guy here. But I have no way of knowing if it was good enough as he has disappeared. Should I have asked for help? Should you in this unfortunate and very very sad case with NoID10ts?

NoID10ts. You agree with me, don't you?

 

[Jennywocky]

Example: A man calls Terisa a ugly bitch. I place myself in Terisa shoes. "Why do I care what this man thinks. He is a heartless and unintelligent person whose opinion means little to nothing. Granted there are things to be learned from him at times but nothing is worth deciding as truth when received by this man." Cannot fully sympathize but can understand what makes her upset" Sympathy is based on an old memory and the sympathy is very slight.

Repsonse, "Terisa I am sorry for this, he is not a very considerate person and I would not be too concerned with what he said. I find you to be a very beautiful person and more importantly most everyone enjoys your company and having you around." Showed Empathy.

Example2: Terisa finds her favorite plate broken. Unable to understand the emotion or why it is important. NO sympathy.

I don't understand it but it means something to her and since she means something to me I don't want her to suffer, I should make her feel better.

I am sorry your plate broke, I know how much it means to you. *hug
Showed Empathy.

I can relate to that.

There are situations where I feel natural empathy (usually coming by being able to step into someone's shoes and see the world from their perspective; at times, I do have a straight emotional response, but typically it's the more processed, intellectualized form... albeit something that happens very very quickly for me nowadays).

Sometimes that mental-based empathy comes with an emotional response as noted, and sometimes the event itself does not trigger a direct emotional response (such as your "breaking plate" in example 2). What happens is that I can feel bad she feels bad, but not about the breaking of the plate, to borrow from your example. I can still show sympathy/consideration, if I realize that the event/item means a lot to that person, but I do not necessarily feel the same loss or any loss. I am responding to the perceived hurt of the individual and not the loss itself.

Other times, if priorities overlap between us, I can feel the loss myself.

 

[Grayman]

Grayman. The issue I find of interest is you have not found the need to call on others when you see a person in difficulty ... at least so goes your OP.

I am not sure I am reading this correctly...

I don't ask for advice about other people's problems. I feel to ask specific advice would be to put up someone to be judged by others who are not in the situation fully and cannot build an accurate account of what occurred in order to make a plan of action.
Granted I am under the same restrictions but to relay the account again outside of a context of what this person is like or who they are, would be setting up myself for bad advice. It would also undermine the need for privacy of the individual I am helping. I would feel that if they wanted these people to be involved in the advising she/he would have included them. If I felt another may have a better idea of what advice to give in this specific situation I would have no issues redirecting the person with the problem to the more capable individual but still provide the comfort as it likely I was chosen first out of a need for comfort.


EXAMPLE-NoID10ts
"I am sorry to hear this. If you feel the need to talk about this I would be glad to be there. I have suffered in my youth, a life of turmoil, and have discovered that peace is found within and can help face the storm that resides around you."

Reason that no advice is given or is very broad... NoID10ts did not provide the issues that may be causing him grief so it would not be wise to provide much advice at this point. Even if the problem is general and not specific, people often dwell on a problem and not the big picture problem. You cannot make them see the big picture until you satisfy their smaller problem to an extent that they feel safer to expand their sight.

EDIT

The link you provided seems to be going to NoID10ts's page instead of a thread. Is that right?

 

[BigApplePi]

The link you provided seems to be going to NoID10ts's page instead of a thread. Is that right?

That's odd. Did you click on here? If you don't get the correct link, I'll try harder.

Meanwhile I think you are right about going to a 3rd party if they are going to pick up things out-of-context. But if the have the SAME info, they might give a more informed or at least different advice.

 

[Grayman]

I'll take a look when I can get more time.

I appreciate your advice so far. I am quick to disregard the idea of getting a second opinion in such a circumstance. I will reconsider this and make an effort to seek more advice.

 

[Grayman]

I had a conversation with this guy here. But I have no way of knowing if it was good enough as he has disappeared. Should I have asked for help? Should you in this unfortunate and very very sad case with NoID10ts?

Is it possible that I understand why you are asking? The situation is difficult and you understood the moment you went into it you took the risk, you faced the fear. Without an answer does that fear grow? It does for me. The doubt that something was still not enough and the that thing was worse and was a cause of a greater struggle. Should I have asked for help? Perhaps. Would it have changed anything? Reason is your salvation but is it enough to keep back the doubt? Is really my salvation? Years of help made no difference for the joyless and yet we have hope to change their lives to give them what we find so joyful. Joy is the gift that gives life, it is meaning, and yet is it so easily given as we like to think? Is it obtainable by everyone as we wish to think? You ask me this question "Should I have asked for help?" but is the question for you as much as for me? Do you face the doubt as a result of the silence? Do you face the doubt that I also feel? Failure? Am I the result of a joy to never to be obtained? Logic would say no, but it does not heal the doubt. I must continue on. I must or failure will no longer be a question. It will be assured.



I can give you an answer, one of many, to help determine the right course. It would not matter. His course can only be decided by him. I agree with your views of how to defeat depression as they fit with my understanding. It can be a struggle against fear. It can be a struggle without regard to reason. It can be a struggle against loneliness. Purpose and meaning can give a person drive to defeat this struggle. You can give him your hand as you have done and have done as well as can be done. Only he can grab ahold of it. perhaps there is much fear in the joyless to face something new, and find purpose. How do you defeat that fear for them? Perhaps there is much fear that blocks them from being with those around them, and destroying loneliness. How do you silence their social anxiety? How do you give them a life of balanced faith and reason?

 

[BigApplePi]

Thank you for that response Grayman. It is a suburb one. I guess what I'm saying is it often helps not to be alone in saying these things. One cannot tell for sure if one is going too far, disturbing the waters too much, could have done better. I suppose when one pokes into the wound, it hurts more; if one points to something else, it hurts less. One has to do both to address the topic. Only the other party knows for sure.

 

[Grayman]

I suppose when one pokes into the wound, it hurts more; if one points to something else, it hurts less. One has to do both to address the topic. Only the other party knows for sure.

I have grown up with parents that are suicidal. There was fear that to speak to them to bluntly, it would be the last they hear my words. There was fear that every word hinged on the end of a life that I held dear. I was but a child growing up and I felt that I had to be the rock for my mom and my sisters.
Why when all my family faced depression did I rise? I spent so many late nights speaking to my mom about her relationships. So much time comforting her but nothing ever changed. It was all hopeless. I found it sad, but it gave me purpose. It kept me strong.
Time had passed and as a teenager I had but two friends in school and two at home. One day it was only one at school. I lost a friend to suicide. Why not I? Why do I have to be alone? Why do they get to leave me to suffer alone? Do they not care? Do they not see all that I do to love them? Do they not see how much it hurts me? They do not see.
So why do I not fall prey? Perhaps hate. I hate depression. I see it as a poison that not only kills the person who has it but sickens those around. I will not take poison. I will not let the hopelessness take me. I will fight. I always fight. The depressed do not see this. They only see that people do not love them, but they cannot see how this all affects those around them. They are blinded to hope. They cannot hope.
Perhaps I do not fall prey because there are those that need me. Perhaps I am simply not sick. Can I believe this disease is nothing more than like getting sick where mental thougth and choice can make no difference? Such thought leads to hopelessness. There would be not hope for those that I love.

 

[BigApplePi]

Hey Grayman. Quite a confession. Brave. Question: what was/is your age relation to your sisters? Looks like the unpleasant situation of your life has made you stronger. Good for that. I tend to want to point optimistically. That is, if life is like what it is, and it gets tilted I want to move next to a righting position.

I believe there are times when one will feel sad and that is fine. That's when one has just lost something. One has to work out what this loss means and just what it is so one can prepare substitutes.

Also this is a forum where we often see people say they are tilted. If they want to be set upright and can learn how to do that, I say we can learn right along with them. That's the payoff.

 

[Grayman]

I am the middle child two years younger than the oldest and four years older than the youngest. It was the hardest on the youngest. The issues occurred between my age of 14 to 18, after a my parents divorced.

Hey Grayman. Quite a confession. Brave. Question: what was/is your age relation to your sisters? Looks like the unpleasant situation of your life has made you stronger. Good for that. I tend to want to point optimistically. That is, if life is like what it is, and it gets tilted I want to move next to a righting position.

The struggle has offered me opportunity but in my strength lays weakness. I often view the cup should be viewed both half empty and half full. How can you know what you have and what you can use if you do not recognize that the glass is half full? How can you see what can be filled and improved if you don't recognize that the glass is half empty? I somehow find peace in accepting both my strength and weakness. It provides confidence and a balanced pride. I do see where you are trying to lead me though and I appreciate the reminder.

I believe there are times when one will feel sad and that is fine. That's when one has just lost something. One has to work out what this loss means and just what it is so one can prepare substitutes.

In my past I have learned a deep lesson of what is a great weakness of mine. I don't let myself feel sad. I often viewed the feeling as a cause of selfishness and self pity. I will not feel sorry for myself. I did not recognize the sadness that is pure and beautiful. The sadness that says I care about 'your' suffering. The sadness that allows me to mourn with others and share their burden. I had shut it all off and I was not there for anyone. It was a hard lesson to be learned. Perhaps there will be more lessons such as this.

Also this is a forum where we often see people say they are tilted. If they want to be set upright and can learn how to do that, I say we can learn right along with them. That's the payoff.

Yes, that is true. These things make me question my own feelings and values. They force me to realize my own weakness and my own burdens that I ignore. They give me the opportunity to change and grow, to face that which I would normally not recognize. They provide a great gift.

 

[Grayman]

I can relate to that.

...

Other times, if priorities overlap between us, I can feel the loss myself.

It is good that I am not alone in this. It makes a person feel a little more sane.

I still worry about my emotional control. I don't think it normal to be able to choose which emotions you wish to feel at a given time. It is like a bucket and in the bucket are options at any given moment. I can look in the bucket and determine what feelings are useful, which are indicators of reading others, which would cause problems. I then can ignore the bucket or pick one up and use it. I cannot choose what is in the bucket when it is handed to me by my subconscious but what seems odd is that I can choose the ones I want out of the bucket or ignore them altogether.

I used to think this an INTP thing, being a thinker, but I am not so sure.

It would seem as people don't pick up a bucket, they actually wear the emotions and they arrive and leave at their own accord except with great effort and time. They can try to hide them, and even then they sit underneath their shirt burning in their chest. They are simply ignoring them. Keeping them from sight.

It is not ignoring them for me, the simply are not there as my emotions unless I let them be.

 

[Grayman]

Emotional Detachment definition 2: decision to not connect emotionally[edit]

Emotional detachment in the second definition above is a decision to avoid engaging emotional connections, rather than an inability or difficulty in doing so, typically for personal, social, or other reasons. In this sense it can allow people to maintain boundaries, psychic integrity and avoid undesired impact by or upon others, related to emotional demands. As such it is a deliberate mental attitude which avoids engaging the emotions of others.
This detachment does not necessarily mean avoiding empathy; rather it allows the person space needed to rationally choose whether or not to be overwhelmed or manipulated by such feelings. Examples where this is used in a positive sense might include emotional boundary management, where a person avoids emotional levels of engagement related to people who are in some way emotionally overly demanding, such as difficult co-workers or relatives, or is adopted to aid the person in helping others such as a person who trains himself to ignore the "pleading" food requests of a dieting spouse, or indifference by parents towards a child's begging. Emotional detachment also allows acts of extreme cruelty, such as torture and abuse, supported by the decision to not connect empathically with the person concerned. As a result, the decision as to whether emotional detachment in any given set of circumstances is considered to be a positive or negative mental attitude is a subjective one, and therefore a decision on which different people may not agree.

It would seem I have found something I was looking for in regards to how I my feeling functions but I would say that emotional detachment is my first reaction and then I can choose to remove it if I want.

Any thoughts on this? [not to be confused with the other type of emotional detachment which is not a choice]

 

[HsinHsin]

It would seem I have found something I was looking for in regards to how I my feeling functions but I would say that emotional detachment is my first reaction and then I can choose to remove it if I want.

Any thoughts on this? [not to be confused with the other type of emotional detachment which is not a choice]

Maybe emotional detachment works as a way to problem-solving for us.
(Sorry I have not read all the posts relate to this topic.)

 

[BigApplePi]

Unless I have this wrong, isn't this exactly what a physician or a psychological counselor has to do? They see the painful situation but cannot let the emotion overtake them. Also the military leader who must make painful decisions as in sending young men into battle for the greater good.

 

[Grayman]

Unless I have this wrong, isn't this exactly what a physician or a psychological counselor has to do? They see the painful situation but cannot let the emotion overtake them. Also the military leader who must make painful decisions as in sending young men into battle for the greater good.

I would agree. It brings me to my next thought though. Have I confused this process of emotional detachment as part of my thinking stack as an INTP? Am I an INTP?

If I stopped emotional detachment completely, I can feel more INFJ. Which is my true type?

 

[Jennywocky]

It is good that I am not alone in this. It makes a person feel a little more sane.

Yes -- if the experience occurs in others, there just might be a mechanism that creates it or something inherent in some people, vs a totally unique and potentially crazy perception of reality.

I still worry about my emotional control. I don't think it normal to be able to choose which emotions you wish to feel at a given time. It is like a bucket and in the bucket are options at any given moment. I can look in the bucket and determine what feelings are useful, which are indicators of reading others, which would cause problems. I then can ignore the bucket or pick one up and use it. I cannot choose what is in the bucket when it is handed to me by my subconscious but what seems odd is that I can choose the ones I want out of the bucket or ignore them altogether.

usually what I see in people who have no emotional intelligence is that they don't even recognize their own emotions when they have them. (Hence, the example of the "self-proclaimed intellectual" who habitually flips out and is driven by emotions that others observe easily but he does not.)

Those with some degree of emotional awareness, though, and those not entirely driven by emotions, can pick and choose more readily which emotions they give credence to. More emotional extroverts might have trouble with this compared to introverts, who naturally cloak themselves / internalize the emotions.

I used to think this an INTP thing, being a thinker, but I am not so sure.

I think INTPs actually have a large subgroup that is emotionally unaware / dismisses emotions and thus becomes prone to acting on them subconsciously. This is where the Fe explosion comes from -- emotions are tossed/suppressed as insignficant, but emotions can never be discarded or buried permanently, they just build until they pass the level of control threshold. INTP -> suppress emotions -> eventually the stack blows. Once relieved, the pressure dissipates, and the process begins again until the INTP sickens of it and learns other methods that might actually incorporate some degree of emotion.

However, the emotional awareness you describe can show up in other types. I actually see it as a common thing in INFJs, who can feel very deeply inside and seem to learn the ropes of "social emotional expression" -- they learn the rules easily -- but are probably one of the most capable of the feelers in suppressing/choosing which emotion to experience and act upon. They've also got strong tert Ti, if developed, to guide them, and the introversion means they don't like to "make a mess" or intrude into other space.

It would seem as people don't pick up a bucket, they actually wear the emotions and they arrive and leave at their own accord except with great effort and time. They can try to hide them, and even then they sit underneath their shirt burning in their chest. They are simply ignoring them. Keeping them from sight.

Fairly accurate, I think.

It is not ignoring them for me, the simply are not there as my emotions unless I let them be.

Exactly. You're aware of them, but you choose when to dive in. More awareness can always be developed, of course... and especially the nuances... but not acting on emotions doesn't mean you don't have them. Emotions actually are powerful, for good or ill; I think sometimes the lack of motivation that INTPs express, the listlessness and apathy, occurs because no emotions are being allowed to express themselves. Emotions both empower and motivate, inspire and persuade. They are a tool as well as an experience that can help one feel engaged and alive.

I would agree. It brings me to my next thought though. Have I confused this process of emotional detachment as part of my thinking stack as an INTP? Am I an INTP?

If I stopped emotional detachment completely, I can feel more INFJ. Which is my true type?

You don't seem to have the level of Fe that adult INFJs typically have. You care, but it doesn't seem a natural fit for you. For INFJs, it's their aux and one of their most developed functions, naturally.

But what you describe is actually a connection point for INFJ and INTP; I think it's one of the things we can connect/body with each other over.

 

[Cherry Cola]

usually what I see in people who have no emotional intelligence is that they don't even recognize their own emotions when they have them. (Hence, the example of the "self-proclaimed intellectual" who habitually flips out and is driven by emotions that others observe easily but he does not.)

Those with some degree of emotional awareness, though, and those not entirely driven by emotions, can pick and choose more readily which emotions they give credence to. More emotional extroverts might have trouble with this compared to introverts, who naturally cloak themselves / internalize the emotions.



I think INTPs actually have a large subgroup that is emotionally unaware / dismisses emotions and thus becomes prone to acting on them subconsciously. This is where the Fe explosion comes from -- emotions are tossed/suppressed as insignficant, but emotions can never be discarded or buried permanently, they just build until they pass the level of control threshold. INTP -> suppress emotions -> eventually the stack blows. Once relieved, the pressure dissipates, and the process begins again until the INTP sickens of it and learns other methods that might actually incorporate some degree of emotion.

So true, I trust very few of the people who claim to be emotionally detached and perfect rationalists. What you describe seems common in INTJs as well in my experience: "I am rational I just HATE THIS FUCKING SHIT SO MUCH because it is stupid and the people who are into it are soulless husks!"
They typically think it rational not to consider emotional factors eventually leading to disaster whereupon blame is yet again cast upon some emotional aspect which they ignored.

I used to think that way for a while too. Dunno how really. I mean was always aware of the vibe around me to the point that if it was bad it made me really uncomfortable and vice versa, somehow the implications of that fact didn't dawn on me.

 

[Grayman]

So true, I trust very few of the people who claim to be emotionally detached and perfect rationalists. What you describe seems common in INTJs as well in my experience: "I am rational I just HATE THIS FUCKING SHIT SO MUCH because it is stupid and the people who are into it are soulless husks!"
They typically think it rational not to consider emotional factors eventually leading to disaster whereupon blame is yet again cast upon some emotional aspect which they ignored.

I used to think that way for a while too. Dunno how really. I mean was always aware of the vibe around me to the point that if it was bad it made me really uncomfortable and vice versa, somehow the implications of that fact didn't dawn on me.

Would it be true that individuals who are surrounded by constant negative emotion and emotional manipulation are more likely to see emotion as a bad thing based on experience?

If it is true why am I not subject to that rule?

 

[Jennywocky]

Would it be true that individuals who are surrounded by constant negative emotion and emotional manipulation are more likely to see emotion as a bad thing based on experience?

Well, I did.

I had a natural aptitude for setting aside emotional, but I became one of the extreme rationalists and total-emotion supressor until after I was married and eventually realized that I needed to engage my emotions again if I was to be a decent spouse and parent.

I have a totally different view now.

Some Thinker types seem totally indifferent to emotions or at least not opposed to them. Nothing really gets under the skin. Kind of interesting.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

Yes -- if the experience occurs in others, there just might be a mechanism that creates it or something inherent in some people, vs a totally unique and potentially crazy perception of reality.



usually what I see in people who have no emotional intelligence is that they don't even recognize their own emotions when they have them. (Hence, the example of the "self-proclaimed intellectual" who habitually flips out and is driven by emotions that others observe easily but he does not.)

Those with some degree of emotional awareness, though, and those not entirely driven by emotions, can pick and choose more readily which emotions they give credence to. More emotional extroverts might have trouble with this compared to introverts, who naturally cloak themselves / internalize the emotions.



I think INTPs actually have a large subgroup that is emotionally unaware / dismisses emotions and thus becomes prone to acting on them subconsciously. This is where the Fe explosion comes from -- emotions are tossed/suppressed as insignficant, but emotions can never be discarded or buried permanently, they just build until they pass the level of control threshold. INTP -> suppress emotions -> eventually the stack blows. Once relieved, the pressure dissipates, and the process begins again until the INTP sickens of it and learns other methods that might actually incorporate some degree of emotion.

However, the emotional awareness you describe can show up in other types. I actually see it as a common thing in INFJs, who can feel very deeply inside and seem to learn the ropes of "social emotional expression" -- they learn the rules easily -- but are probably one of the most capable of the feelers in suppressing/choosing which emotion to experience and act upon. They've also got strong tert Ti, if developed, to guide them, and the introversion means they don't like to "make a mess" or intrude into other space.



Fairly accurate, I think.



Exactly. You're aware of them, but you choose when to dive in. More awareness can always be developed, of course... and especially the nuances... but not acting on emotions doesn't mean you don't have them. Emotions actually are powerful, for good or ill; I think sometimes the lack of motivation that INTPs express, the listlessness and apathy, occurs because no emotions are being allowed to express themselves. Emotions both empower and motivate, inspire and persuade. They are a tool as well as an experience that can help one feel engaged and alive.



You don't seem to have the level of Fe that adult INFJs typically have. You care, but it doesn't seem a natural fit for you. For INFJs, it's their aux and one of their most developed functions, naturally.

But what you describe is actually a connection point for INFJ and INTP; I think it's one of the things we can connect/body with each other over.

Spot on. As an INFJ, and a mature one at that (aka "old"), I do feel deeply but I've learned to modulate emotions using Ti. I'm not ruled by feeling...it may be my 'go to' reaction but I can choose to give sway to both thinking and feeling. Often this comes out as empathic carefully thought out actions with a clear reasoning behind my choices. I find this extremely helpful because I can be honest even if it will likely hurt another but I'm able to do so in a way that is sensitive to another and hopefully leaves them feeling respected and cared for albeit hurt or disappointed. I find this process leave me feeling respect for myself as well.

INFJ and INTP have this potential ability in common. In well functioning mature individuals of both types, they can come across similar in that respect. However, I think all types have the potential to mature in this way so I don't think it's necessarily a type thing.

 

[Grayman]

Spot on. As an INFJ, and a mature one at that (aka "old"), I do feel deeply but I've learned to modulate emotions using Ti. I'm not ruled by feeling...it may be my 'go to' reaction but I can choose to give sway to both thinking and feeling. Often this comes out as empathic carefully thought out actions with a clear reasoning behind my choices. I find this extremely helpful because I can be honest even if it will likely hurt another but I'm able to do so in a way that is sensitive to another and hopefully leaves them feeling respected and cared for albeit hurt or disappointed. I find this process leave me feeling respect for myself as well.

INFJ and INTP have this potential ability in common. In well functioning mature individuals of both types, they can come across similar in that respect. However, I think all types have the potential to mature in this way so I don't think it's necessarily a type thing.

I would agree but I see a strong tendency in the Fi group to be unable to block emotion. They seem to be subject to social anxiety and in a very different way and I would say it has something to do with the tendency toward more creative emotion. Anyways Fi seems to resist being invalidated as much as Ti. I see this in the INTJ as a paranoia of peoples intentions. To me, it is often as if they create the idea of feeling that does not exist. Other Fe types can see it as such also at those moments so I don't think I am perceiving this incorrectly. I am not saying there is not value in the Fi. It seems very artistic. I simply think they, with Ne, are prone to unrelated connection of feeling as much as an intp is prone to unrelated connections of thinking.

 

[BigApplePi]

If I stopped emotional detachment completely, I can feel more INFJ. Which is my true type?

My internet line keeps dropping so I have to reply quickly. Is your emotional observation intuited? Do you ignore your personal emotions in favor of this observation? If so, you are not using Fi. You can still be INTP.

Add: Do you LIKE emotional detachment? That is, you don't WANT to drop it?

 

[Grayman]

My internet line keeps dropping so I have to reply quickly. Is your emotional observation intuited? Do you ignore your personal emotions in favor of this observation? If so, you are not using Fi. You can still be INTP.

Add: Do you LIKE emotional detachment? That is, you don't WANT to drop it?

My emotional observation is usually historical based and yes intuitive. So I guess NeSi. I don't usually use my feelings as an indicator as they are never the same as anyone else's and usually I am unconcerned by most things. They strike no emotional value in my being but I know it is not safe to assume that it does not affect them. I went on the INFJ forum and become convinced that I am not them. They seem to argue in circles, trying to convince each other what they feel is important instead of accepting it as always and eternally different. I am trying not to be biased in this statement so if CC wants to come and slap me in the head and make me see the light, I would appreciate it.

One other thing I noticed is that if one person values 'let's say butter fingers' the others come in excited with a thumbs up and say they do too. I exaggerate a little to get the point across but it is something like this.