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MBTI Explanation

BigApplePi

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It has been asked if the MBTI is a legitimate scientific theory and if so, why hasn't academia acknowledged it? I'm not sure that is true. I have the impression some of academia likes it but it's not universally approved. Anyway tests are used for vocational aptitudes but many question their validity.

I have what may be a new way of explaining what's going on. My intuition looks for contradictions, so if you see any please post them. That includes questions if something is unexplained or not clear.

Here is how it goes. We all have the potential for any of the eight cognitive functions (CF's). In the beginning, infants possess only feeling and sensation and they are internal. Then externalities arise through growth. Intuition may arise next, follow by thinking. Thinking and intuition and outside world interest and awarenesses are advanced stages in humans appearing beyond infancy.

As the person develops they tend to specialize*. They find some CF's easier to use or more rewarding than others. Whether this is hardware (innate) or software (environmental) doesn't matter. What matters is once specialties arise they tend to stick. The reason for that is that they are immediately rewarding. In contrast changing to other CF's will be inhibited (1) by lack of experience with them and (2) by conflict with other existing CF's. Of all the possible CF's, two emerge** as primary. One to deal with who we are internally and the other to deal with the external world.

Then something new occurs. The four predominant CF's produce an emerging*** temperament. This is the primary temperament. For example, the familiar INTP on this Forum. This temperament is the personality's home base. Once established, it can encounter both internal and environmental changes impinging on this temperament. Then a secondary temperament may arise. For example an INTP released from other social pressures may discover the internet is a place to look outwardly, thus producing the behavior of an extrovert, an ENTP. An INTP who can firm up theory and lay claim to it by becoming a believer can treat it as external phenomena, taking on the secondary temperament of an INTJ. An INTP who is on occasion seduced by strong feelings lingering long enough can take on the temperament (secondary) of an INFP. An INTP who takes on specific interests close to the environment of a sensation nature can take on the temperament, however transient, of an ISTP.

It is these secondary temperaments that arise from time-to-time that lead one to doubt ones' primary temperament. For all we know, MBTI tests, the visual observations of Pod'Lair and other theories may be exposing a secondary temperament, not the primary. That a primary temperament exists and what it is can only be verified by statistical observation over time and space and by looking at the whole picture.

*The same way division of labor appears in society and sibling specialties arise in families.

**All four CF's are determined by the first two primaries.

***When I say "emerge" this is meant literally. Development brings into being what was not there before. The CF's occupy a lower level than the temperament which is at a higher level. The CF's themselves emerge from primeval unconsciousness. The point is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. This whole is experienced as unified behavior tending toward stability.
 

samjonathan

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i agree completely with what you are saying here, i tried to explain the concept to an INTJ friend of mine in order to help back up the point that everyone has the "potential" to be any personality type and that every personality type or function has their own strengths which we can try to learn from others who are more skilled in the use of CFs, and that this knowledge can be used to help reduce the shortcomings of other CFs and help to make a persons life more balanced.....

i dont think she got it though
 

Grayman

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There is an idea in socionics that CFs function differently in the other levels ie.. Tietery vs dominant. The intp in this case is not using the Fe in the same way as an Dom Fe user. I am curious if this holds true for mbti.
 

BigApplePi

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There is an idea in socionics that CFs function differently in the other levels ie.. Tietery vs dominant. The intp in this case is not using the Fe in the same way as an Dom Fe user. I am curious if this holds true for mbti.
My guess is the dominant Fe user loves to interact with people or the external world; the INTP uses Fe mainly to support hir's Ti.

For socionics, maybe @EyeSeeCold ?
 

Grayman

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My guess is the dominant Fe user loves to interact with people or the external world; the INTP uses Fe mainly to support hir's Ti.

For socionics, maybe @EyeSeeCold ?

I guess my point is that it would not be accurate to call an INTP an INFJ during the use of Fe because the INTP is not using the be in the same way as an INFJ.

An INTP using Fi is still an INTP using Fi and not taking the role of an INFP because the INTP is still failing to function fully as a normally developed INFP.
 

BigApplePi

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I guess my point is that it would not be accurate to call an INTP an INFJ during the use of Fe because the INTP is not using the be in the same way as an INFJ.

An INTP using Fi is still an INTP using Fi and not taking the role of an INFP because the INTP is still failing to function fully as a normally developed INFP.
@Grayman.
let me take a step back because I'm not sure how to integrate what you said.

I propose that if there is such a thing as a Primary temperament, so well defined as to give it a name, there are Secondary temperaments as well. For example the proposal is that an INTP can have a secondary temperament derived from changing one letter of this "I-N-T-P."

Are you counter-proposing that this "secondary temperament" is really the original temperament but with an odd CF developed or emphasized?
 

Grayman

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@Grayman.
let me take a step back because I'm not sure how to integrate what you said.

I propose that if there is such a thing as a Primary temperament, so well defined as to give it a name, there are Secondary temperaments as well. For example the proposal is that an INTP can have a secondary temperament derived from changing one letter of this "I-N-T-P."

Are you counter-proposing that this "secondary temperament" is really the original temperament but with an odd CF developed or emphasized?

If you are an INTP the Fe in the tertiary is a 'Granny Smith Apple' if you are an INFJ the Fe in the dominant slot is a 'Red Delicious Apple'. They both may be apples but if you try to give someone your 'Granny Smith' they are not fooled into thinking it is a 'Red Delicious'. If you want to pass off your 'Granny Smith' as a 'Red Delicious' you will have to bake it in a pie and mess with the taste to pass it off as a 'Red', but that will take a lot of effort and skill and likely you would be a very good personality cook. Likely such people would be found in places such as Hollywood.
 

BigApplePi

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I have what may be a new way of explaining what's going on. My intuition looks for contradictions, so if you see any please post them. That includes questions if something is unexplained or not clear.
I guess I asked for this and got it. This together with the thread Borderline INTP (INXP) = problems, has given me feedback. I have to think it over.
 

BigApplePi

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I am trying to explain behavior askew with the traditional MBTI and seem to be having a little trouble getting across what I am after. This may not be THE answer but will shed some light, I hope, on the situation.

I wish to explain from the ground up starting with cognitive functions and building from there. This is the way things are done in mathematics.

Explanations of the MBTI as performed by such vehicles Personality Junkie! are doing so from the top down which is the opposite.

One might ask, which develops first, temperament or cognitive function? I'm starting with CF.
 

Cherry Cola

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Adding another ambigous layer lacking empirical backup does not make MBTI any more scientific. It makes it less so.

Oh and Grayman is spot on.

Behavior askew is better considered outside the realm of MBTI, the theory doesn't have to provide a holistic account of human cognition. And it shouldn't if that only serves to weaken it while adding nothing of explanatory value.
 

BigApplePi

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I would be after a holistic account ... an account that completes the MBTI with the MBTI at its center making the MBTI stronger not weaker.

I wrote a response to Grayman but before I could review and post it I got distracted over on the other thread. Just because we see real fog on the horizon doesn't mean we can't move forward and see what's there.
 
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