INTP obsession/fetish with Fe

[LAM]

A lot of INTPs here aspire to become very good at Fe and have a fetish for its use and types with it: INFPs, INFJs, etc.
----
Why? While I know from profiles what Fe does, I would need some kind of examples as to what Fe is, when it is used, how it is used and what would lack of Fe do. (Fe is my worst cognitive function by far.)

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

They're delusional. Pure and simple. They would like to gain some emotional maturity. This comes with time and experience. Living vicariously through stories which supposed utilizes Fe is a poor attempt of gaining experience. Though, I have no idea what Fe does other than it is a feeling function. Feeling functions must be based on logic somewhere in evolutionary history.

By worst cognitive function by far do you mean you have an inability to determine subjection on a suitable level?

People's want to know your subjection is a pain in the ass sometimes. When you have no opinion on something, you have no opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Then they mistake no opinion with no being knowledgeable on the subject. Bastards! *shakes fist in anger*

Engaging your Fe function would probably entail social interaction. Since, most of us seem to be retarded in this area I would assume engaging Fe more often would be beneficial.

The glass is not half full. It is not half empty. It is at 50% of capacity.

lol, I am just ranting. First reply. XD

 

[Adymus]

Uhhhhm, No ProxyAmenRa. Every type has this exact same relationship with their inferior functions.

And of course Fe is your worst function LAM, you're a god damned INTP. I consider my Fe pretty well developed for an INTP but it is still easily my worst function (Not including unconscious functions like Fi.)

I think the reason for our Fe fetish is because we have some sort of inclination that ultimately, it is Fe that is going to be our product. We have the ability to create massive logical models, but what good is that if you can't even articulate your thoughts to the rest of the world? We all want to be heard, we wouldn't be hear if we didn't require a venue for stimulating discussion of some kind, and Fe is our ability to do this.

Fe is not just some feeling thing like you guys seem to be looking at it. Fe is mostly used by us to move and read people's emotions. But more than anything, it is our ability to take what is inside out head and relate it to society. The models we create with Ti are entirely subjective models, they are how we personally understand things. If we want to take this understanding of the universe and give it to anyone else, we must do it through Fe.

I also have a certain belief that human beings all inherently have a "will to be great", and a part of this is discovering that in order to truly be great, you must master your weaknesses. We do not have any useless functions, and the INTP who masters Fe will always be stronger than the one that doesn't.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Adymus I would like to pick your brain probably to do with this subject. Well I could not be bothered starting a new thread and it could be a manifestation of the Fe function. My understanding of the cognitive functions is not that great. I have not read much on the subject apart from what type has what cognitive function and the brief explanations of the cognitive functions. No books on the subject. Your knowledge on the subject dwarfs mine in comparison.

*currently at the moment I am reading the 3 volumes of Karl Marx's Das Capital and a maraud of papers on building efficient water treatment plants.* Hence, not much time can be devoted to this subjection.

I was wondering if one of my behavioral traits is a direct result from the Fe function or perhaps, I have missed typed myself or this is normal. Here is an example of the trait: When I look at a person whom appears sad I feel grief. When I look at a person whom appears happy I feel joy. The outwards expressions of people's emotions exhibits itself in an alteration of my own emotions. The problem that I face is that these reciprocal/mirror emotions override my own. Hence, my own emotions are useless for any purpose. This has always interested me. I definitely know that my decisions making process and my problem solving abilities are based on thinking and intuitive functions. These functions have served me quite well through my academic pursuits and the beginnings of my career.

What are your thoughts and analysis of this?

I have a problem with typing myself within the MBTI framework. I can make any type result when taking a test. I don't believe I can take the test and answer the questions honestly. There is too much subject.

 

[Adymus]

I actually disagree with the MBTI test as well, too much room for failure. There is also a huge difference between acting like a personality type and actually being one, the test cannot make these distinctions like a person can.

So you are essentially feeling empathy for people?
Let's clarify some things: When you see these people make these emotional responses, what is your face doing? Will you actually feel your own face responding, or are you just feeling what it is they are feeling on the inside?

So far it sounds like it is Fe.
Fe is a directive emotional function, this means that it is meant to influence the outside world in some way. It has two uses: To move people, and to read people. The way it moves people will come out in your voices' pitch inflections and amplitude, smiles, eyebrow raises, grimaces, even laughs.
For example every now and then I will say something that I fear came out too cold, so I will subconsciously throw on a smile at the end of the sentence so the other person knows to feel that what I said is not as serious as it sounds. When Fe reads people's then it is usually to recalibrate how it is going to send out it's own. This last part commonly display itself as the INTP's "Social chamenleon" tendencies. We read the other person's emotional content, and then match it with our own.
Basically it is emotion meant for the direction of the other person.

So based on the fact that it sounds like you are reading the other person's emotions and them matching them, it sounds like Fe. However, Fi can be very empathetic as well, but for an Fi user, the emotion is meant for themselves, and is not for the benefit of the outside world. Very much in the same way that Ti is meant to be our own way of understanding things.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

The experience is both internal and external. Micro-expressions do result even though I try to suppress. The internal experience can be quite strong but I am never lulled into believing that emotion is my own.

Perhaps, a further extrapolation of behavior that I am trying to communicate is an example that music is highly effective in evoking an emotional response. When I was listening to a composition using the speakers on my mobile phone an INFJ exhibited the same reaction and verbalized in regards to a melody. The emotionally perceptive individual had the same response as I. No one else seemed to notice or were even aware. That was an 'ohh shit' moment.

Here is an interesting excerpt from a website. http://www.timeenoughforlove.org/Functions.htm

[FONT=trebuchet ms, Arial, Helvetica]Fe is adapting one's interactions with the external world to the moods and feelings of others. Fe is sensitive to events like changes in people's expressions or other such "soft," hard-to-quantify conditions in the environment.

Fi is judging perceptions emotionally, based on weight of evidence. Fi as a mental process is the flow of judgements on perceptions personal ideals or feeling of right and wrong. Fi strives for integrity and consistency in it's ideals. Fi is higher cognitive refinement personal emotion. Fi enables one to vividly re-experience past feelings.[/FONT]

From a quick analysis the traits which I was talking about are more related to the Fe function. This explains why an INFJ would of had a similar response to the stimuli.

An interesting development. I am going to review the other cognitive functions to determine whether or not they apply to me. INTPs have two functions in common with an INFJ, introverted thinking and extroverted feeling. This could be a conundrum. You did accuse me of being idealistic in another thread. Ohh Dear... Though, the fundamental difference I can see between myself the INFJs I know is in regards to organization and sentimentality. My perceived lack of external structure and my in general lack of sentiments quite possibly create a clear enough distinction between myself and an INFJ.

I am going to have to analyze the way in which I problem solve in order to deduce relevant cognitive functions. A distinctive cross reference between Ne and Ni, Si and Se is required.

 

[Adymus]

Yes, definitely Fe then.

Music has very profound effects on the Fe, I have come to notice. It might even be instrumental in developing it further.
Micro-expressions is what I would expect from someone with Fe in Inferior position, but the fact that it is reacting at all is what makes it Fe.

I highly doubt you are an INFJ, the way you were arguing with me in that thread and the way you are analyzing yourself now is all too Ti-Ne. In fact, the way you were being idealistic was in an Ne sort of way, because you were banking on the possibilities of what could be instead of how I was saying "This is how it is".
So yeah it wasn't idealistic in the Ni-Fe sort of way that you would get from INFJs.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Would the enjoyment of here and now activities be a direct result from the Ne function?

I note that when I am really stuck on a puzzle/problem that requires to be solved, when I can think it through I verbalize the problem. Auditory stimulus is quite effective in achieving a result. If that does not work I normally pick the brains of numerous people in quick successions in oder to get alternating perspectives on the problem to miraculously get an answer to analyze latter. An emphasis on quick successions. Slowly analyzing a problem verbally with another does not work. It would seem to me that these are Ne traits.

----

What does it mean to have an developed Fe? And is there anyway to quantify that or put it against a set of traits that would appear in an developed Fe person?

 

[Adymus]

Sort of, that all depends on what you mean by "Here and now"

Ne and Se are both extroverted processes that collect information from outside sources in the present. So if you mean Ne works from a certain exact moment, then yes, it works in the here and now. For Se it is actual details, objects, and sensations in the outside world. For Ne it is the recognition and interpretation of patterns in the outside world.
However Ne and Se have a certain relationship between each other; the Ne sometimes needs to pick up some Se before it can create a pattern within it.

For example I'm a musician and composer so I use my Ne to come up with new riffs based on other riffs. I'll hear a melody (Se), and then immediately my Ne will ping off of that and create a new melody. There is one more factor about Ne that is crucial: An extroverted process does not necessarily refer to something that involves the "outside world" per se, but something that is... "Not you", for like of better words. For example when an INTP introverts, they are not just using Ti but both Ti and Ne. Because your Ne can be used internally when it recognizes patterns within your own logical models and then gives you more information to work with. We have these internal conversations usually in the form of:

Ti: "So if this is this, then that must mean that"

Ne: "What makes you so sure this is that? This could also be that!"

Hopefully that made sense.

Along with all the other stuff I talked about, Fe is connected with your ability to articulate your thoughts. Te also is connect to articulation, this is why INTPs and INFPs are notorious for being bad at articulation their thoughts and feelings. There actually is a very noticeable difference between INTPs with differing levels of Fe usage. If you would like to see some, go to the INTPs on youtube thread.

Mainly INTPs with developed Fe will be more expressive, adding facial expression and vocal expressions to accentuate what it is they are talking about. INTPs with less developed Fe will be more dead pan and expressionless when speaking. As I said above, you will notice that the INTP with developed Fe has an easier time articulating their thoughts and are doing it more fluidly than the one that is not.

As for the not so visual traits, having more developed Fe also gives the person a feeling of mental maturity as they actually have some capability of considering other people's thoughts and feelings instead of being just straight blunt logic.

 

[Auburn]

While I know from profiles what Fe does, I would need some kind of examples as to what Fe is, when it is used, how it is used and what would lack of Fe do.

Aside from everything that Adymus mentioned, which I agree with..
For me, Fe is my awareness of other people's emotions, desire to participate with them emotionally, and in the case of pain - a willingness to comfort and heal them. It's prime concern is being liked by others and doing everything possible to make others get along with each other.

Fe quickly learns that in order to be liked by others it must adhere to culture and society - because going against them would cause disharmony - which is Fe's greatest fear. Traditions like buying her roses, serenading her at her window - are things Fe does to express itself.

As for lack of Fe, the result is the complete opposite; no particular interest in maintaining harmony. For someone with dominant Ti, this may manifest in presenting cold/blunt realities to others while being oblivious or inconsiderate of the emotional harm they may cause. It may also manifest in a disregard for cultural norms; viewing them as irrelevant, while Fe would view them as necessary for it's pursuit of harmony.

***
​

Hehe, Adymus, wouldn't it be fun to have a roleplay thread for the eight functions? That way we can have hypothetical conversations between the eight! I'm sure it would help a lot of people new to the Functions understand them better. ^^

 

[Adymus]

Yes!

And development of Fe is directly correlated with one's desire to take part in what is mentioned above. Which is why it ranges from the ESFJ's obsessions with getting married as soon as possible to the INTP's feelings of detachment from rest of humanity.

Fe is meant to integrate oneself into the societal "system", just as Te is meant to integrate oneself into the objective "system".

It's funny, when I hang out with my INFP friend I can actually feel my Fe reaching out to her Fi. If she express some sort of discord or disapproval, my Fe yells out to me "OH NOES! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT!"


Role-playing functions would be awesome, I bet doing Se would hilarious.

 

[LAM]

I still don't seem to get it. I for some reason can not understand what Fe is. My mind draws a blank even after carefully reading your explanations. It doesn' make sense of it. Its like there is a missing link I have here. As if I can't really think about my Fe for some reason. Its as if I am unable to define my own Fe and that means I can't do anything or understand anything about it.

 

[JASSY]

In my personal experience i tend to act on tough love. I also feel uncomfortable and inpatient with others that let their emotions drive then when i can see they can be logical nd avoid the nuisance of emotions altogather.