Any architects or psychiatrists here???

[Nihilmatic]

What's your thoughts on your career field. I would appreciate your input even if you heard or observed your uncle, friend, parent, etc that's in this field.

How did you/he/she get to where they are?

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

What's your thoughts on your career field. I would appreciate your input even if you heard or observed your uncle, friend, parent, etc that's in this field.

How did you/he/she get to where they are?

I'm a licensed architect (habitable structures). Been practicing for a decade and a half. Growing up, I didn't know what I wanted to do in life (likely due to INTPness). I have an uncle who is an architect and family members encouraged me to become an architect as he is.

I am very happy with what I do. It fits my INTPness very very well. Like a glove. Be wary of the process for obtaining the title of licensed architect: there is a lot, a lot, of BS INTPs have to put up with along the way. Mostly as a result of all that social appropriateness i.e. conformity an INTP has to fake along the way. Once you finally arrive though, a whole new better world does indeed open up.

There are three steps to becoming a licensed architect:
1. professional education
2. professional experience
3. professional examination

I got a masters in Architecture and it took me 6 years. University schooling takes either 5 or 6 years if no delays are required. If you get a professional bachelors degree in architecture if will take 5 years. If you take 6 years you can get a professional Masters degree in architecture. Either one will give you the educational requirement needed to become a licensed architect (nearly all states at this point require a professional degree) as long as the program is accredited by NAAB. http://www.naab.org/home

The next step is gaining between 3-5 years of experience. Its been awhile but i think when I last checked the reality is that it takes the average aspiring architect approximately 7 years of working under a licensed architect to gain enough professional experience to pass this step. NCARB administers this program called IDP. http://www.ncarb.org/

The final step is the professional examination or sets of examinations called the Architects Registration Examination. The body that adminsters it seems to be changing it every other year but recently I know there were 7 separate examinations. Each examination takes about 4 weeks to study for (depends on the person though obviously) and the exams themselves are between about 4-6 hours long apiece. NCARB administers the ARE. http://www.ncarb.org/

Here is a good source which gives a succinct breakdown (though I'd be wary of the institutional cheerleaders who write this stuff: I haven't read through this source therefore I can't endorse the information. I know a few years ago when I read through this source, it has likely changed, there were at least a few important lynchpin issues which the institutional cheerleaders who wrote this stuff glossed over to the detriment of those considering the profession) http://www.ncarb.org/en/Becoming-an-Architect/Architecture-Basics.aspx

 

[Fukyo]

You have a couple of threads here about architecture as a career path (another member who is an architect posted in all of them, I think. )

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=19060

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=9422

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=20800

You have a couple more if you peruse google search

 

[Kuu]

While the good DrHouse above isn't wrong; he neglected to mention that such tortuous bureaucratic process only applies to the USA. Each country has its own educational path, and some are radically different. In the glorious lawless land south of the Rio Grande all one needs to be a "licensed" architect is to finish a bachelor in architecture, no mandatory experience time nor accreditation exams. (Not that one needs a degree in anything to build here Kill me now) A lot of promise, and a whole lot of peril .


I'm an architect too. Fukyo was kind enough to find some of my other rantings in this forum for you.

I've been practicing for 2 and a half years. After the requisite 6 years of university (5 + failure) I graduated and teamed up with a friend who spent his entire education working part-time in various studios and construction companies. Its been a crazy couple of years, learning how to manage ourselves as a small office, doing small projects, working really hard, sleeping very little. We are constantly doing research and learning all the time. Reading a ton of books (we pretty much have a small fortune in architecture books).

To get to where we are we've spent a ton of time networking around the local architecture community, in a variety of ways: we invite all sorts of people for friendly talks at our office, from practicing architects, to academics, to some involved in government urban planning. We stalked and made the acquaintance of the deans of the most important local universities. We send our essays to the editors of the design media. We also organise our own public talks and presentations of our unsolicited conceptual projects for the city (if you don't get invited to conferences, make your own conference! If you don't get invited to competitions, publicly present your proposal anyway!). We stir up controversial topics at the local architecture society meetings (I still sense their reticence to let me ask questions). We have a facebook page that's daily updated which is mostly aggregation of other sites' content, plus commentary of local issues and events, which has got us a sizeable student following (and thus intern source pool)...

Now most of our work is due to collaborations that spin off from the networking.

For example, one of the deans was having a presentation of his book at a book fair late last year, a book which we just so happened to have on hand at the office and discussed with him some weeks before; he was so impressed with our knowledge of the subject matter my partner ended up giving an introduction and talk about it at the fair. Fast forward a couple of months and we get invited by him to lecture at his university, so now we're teaching Introduction to Architecture as well as History and Theory of Architecture 1950s-Present (yeah, I get paid to mindfuck people about postmodernism and didn't need a shitty masters / PhD for it, suck it diploma mills!).

Another time we invited some people we know from another university to talk about their big campus expansion project that is on master planning stage. We actually didn't expect them to accept our invitation, but surprisingly they did and we had some good booze and chat. Fast forward half a year and we get invited by them to help out with the research to develop the program brief for 4 large campus buildings which will later be put to contest.

One former teacher of mine frequently seeks us out for subcontracting parts of their construction documents because we give them good quality work that they can't risk giving to their slave-interns; with them we're about to start another project for the same university that involves the interior redesign of the libraries of 12 campuses (campusi? campi?) all over the country.

It's simultaneously thrilling and frustrating. It's a real challenge to deal with all the responsibility needed to have our independence. Extremely unstable job, borderline broke half the time, we have a hard time getting big projects because clients don't trust millions of $$ on people without greying hair. But certainly enjoying our lives more than our stable-job peers who're doing thankless CADmonkey slavework at the big firms...

And sometimes on my free time I ban people moderate on intpforum. Admittedly not much nowadays.

PS. I had no fucking idea what I was doing or what I wanted for the future when I was a student.

 

[ma(dy)ma(dx)]

Cool cool cool, so architect or psychiatrist, eh? That's quite a leap and yet. Why don't you choose one for income and the other for creative expression? (If I sound like your parents, my bad but not my fault, because I sound like mine as well << bullet proof logic).

Watch out for the inferior Fe, it might be dragging you towards human focused careers. On the other hand, if you don't fall apart after five-to-eight hours of human interaction and deeling with feelings, often on a more Fe than Ti level, then I think INTP would make a great psychiatrist (unless you want to do research). First many years of studying though, and many years of just having to remember an enormous database of latin words and attached meanings (bones, tendons, ligaments, muscles etc). If you can deal with constant repetition (or you have the mythical creature called the photographic memory) - you'll be fine. I don't know about the US, but here we don't have that many psych hours during the first five years, it's mostly biochemistry, chemistric (org and non-org) physiology and a little biophysics - and at last diseases and DDx.

So if you're mainly interested in the human psychee, why not just go all in and study psychology?

 

[Oddity]

So if you're mainly interested in the human psychee, why not just go all in and study psychology?

I've considered studying Psychology a bit on my own time, but I'm not sure where to start.

 

[ma(dy)ma(dx)]

I've considered studying Psychology a bit on my own time, but I'm not sure where to start.

Well, considering that you're a human being and you have been around other human beings + you know something about Jung's cognitive functions = on some level you've already begun studying psychology.
Try to figure out which parts of psychology you find interesting, or just ask your self: what do I need this for? Work? Personal development?
I personally had a bunch of unanswered questions about some parts of the human psychee - mainly my own, and a bunch of questions about some parts of the human behavior - mainly my familys. Reading through some of Jungs (and other) books gave me enough info and interesting ideas to construct my own framework of undestanding - though that framework is always challanged by newly incoming data.

Studying on your own does have its advantages, like you don't have to follow a schedual. (Though for some it's a disadvantage).

 

[Oddity]

Try to figure out which parts of psychology you find interesting

I'm not even sure what all the parts are, or how to understand them all enough to decide if a part is what I should look be looking into.

 

[ma(dy)ma(dx)]

I'm sure you'll figure it out.

 

[Nihilmatic]

Does CTE help architecture career?

Does having a CTE (career and technical education) benefit me in any way. I've spent 3 and a half extra hours in highschool everyday for the past 3 years and they consider this two years of work experience. This is in the completely opposite direction from architecture (this is in the aviation mechanic field), so will it benefit me in any way in pursuing architecture.

 

[Fukyo]

Merged because it's tightly linked with your previous thread.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I'm a qualified anartech and psychotrist. What can I help you with today?

 

[onesteptwostep]

But certainly enjoying our lives more than our stable-job peers who're doing thankless CADmonkey slavework at the big firms...

I'm taking a break from school right now, but this is what I worry the most when I graduate. I don't really want to be that CAD monkey slave.. ;_;

I mean I guess it's for the firm and all, but I dunno it seems too constricting.

PS. I had no fucking idea what I was doing or what I wanted for the future when I was a student.

Mind if I ask if you have any experience with foreign types of architecture? I'm thinking of learning Japanese architecture, as well as Korean. I somewhat want to work around the U.S., Japan and Korea- perhaps in other parts of the world too.

 

[Nihilmatic]

Merged because it's tightly linked with your previous thread.

no its not

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

Re: Does CTE help architecture career?

Does having a CTE (career and technical education) benefit me in any way. I've spent 3 and a half extra hours in highschool everyday for the past 3 years and they consider this two years of work experience. This is in the completely opposite direction from architecture (this is in the aviation mechanic field), so will it benefit me in any way in pursuing architecture.

what kind of stuff did you learn in your cte classes? if it involves classical mechanics, fluid mechanics, differential equations, calculus, linear algebra, physics etc. It will help you if you are pursuing a degree in architecture engineering

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

Re: Does CTE help architecture career?

what kind of stuff did you learn in your cte classes? if it involves classical mechanics, fluid mechanics, differential equations, calculus, linear algebra, physics etc. It will help you if you are pursuing a degree in architecture engineering

If you are in the US, I have plenty of experience working with engineers in the A/E/C industry. I'd recommend INTPs explore engineering as an option. Great pay, nature of the work suits the typical INTP thought process, educational time frame is very reasonable. Just my two cents...

 

[Nihilmatic]

What about BS in architecture? You can't just go to masters first.

Sorry if I'm being ignorant, I just don't know much about this, I'm just finishing the prison known as highschool to go another one (senior at HS).

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

What about BS in architecture? You can't just go to masters first.

Sorry if I'm being ignorant, I just don't know much about this, I'm just finishing the prison known as highschool to go another one (senior at HS).

Very wise in realizing that HS is prison (at least usually). Now that I am fully aware of my INTP status, I look back at my time in pre-University public schooling and shudder. Prison would actually be preferable in many ways to public schooling for the regular INTP.

Anywho: no no, you are not being ignorant when asking any sincere question quite the opposite. Yeah, the BS in Architecture is the 4 year degree which can be used to apply to the 2 year professional M.Arch degree. This is called the 4+2 path.

Here is a link with some information (not going to validate it unless I have time to digest it all) from a professional body I'm certified by:

http://www.ncarb.org/Publications/Webcasts/10StepstoLicensure.aspx

 

[Happy]

I'm not yet a licensed architect, but I have a year of professional experience working under an architect.

I'm open to any questions you may have.

I currently hold both a Bachelor of Architecture and a Bachelor of Construction Management. I'm about to start my final semester of the Master of Architecture.

I have absolutely zero idea where I want my career to take me.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

I'm not yet a licensed architect, but I have a year of professional experience working under an architect.

I'm open to any questions you may have.

I currently hold both a Bachelor of Architecture and a Bachelor of Construction Management. I'm about to start my final semester of the Master of Architecture.

I have absolutely zero idea where I want my career to take me.

NOTE: the following commentary applies to my experience in the U.S.

Your bachelor of CM will give you a massive advantage over other architects. I know this because I saw all the ignorance on the part of most architects in regards to the very important variables (dare I say...design variables?? LOLZ) of time and cost. I noticed that the contemporary architecture profession has all but completely abandoned these all important variables and thus I went and worked for about half a decade after licensure in a couple of large-ish CM firms. Did project management on projects up to 55 million as well as focused in the cost estimating department for a year.

In a nutshell, the CM programs are picking up where the derelict architecture academics and professional practice has left off in terms of exposing students and practitioners to cost and schedule. Its crazy to me to think that the architectural profession can have tacitly taken such a self destructive tact as this. Suicide by omission.

In my estimation the typical graduate of an accredited CM program has the same amount of experience and knowledge regarding cost and schedule as well as dealing with real world clients (businessmen and women as opposed to the echo chamber of ivory tower academics and starbuck sipping 20 something hipster students and esoteric theoreticians that is architecture school and practice these days) as a professional architect with 30 years experience. In other words in 4 years, CM programs give to graduates what it takes the average architect these days 30 years of knowledge and what is essentially accidental exposure to accrue.

In your case Happy you are getting the best of both worlds it sounds like.

Assuming your degrees are accredited and you remain motivated to pass the A.R.E. and become a licensed architect (if you were in the U.S. I don't know how similar it is in Australia), your career will probably come knocking on your door.

 

[Happy]

Firstly, thanks for your response. This is a discussion that is very relevant to the thread.

NOTE: the following commentary applies to my experience in the U.S.

From what I've gathered, our system is very similar to yours:
-Minimum 5 years study (3+2);
-Minimum 2 years (with at least 3300 hours) practical experience, but that is the minimum and the reality is usually somewhat longer;
-Examination (APE) as well as an interview process with the registration board.

Your bachelor of CM will give you a massive advantage over other architects. I know this because I saw all the ignorance on the part of most architects in regards to the very important variables (dare I say...design variables?? LOLZ) of time and cost. I noticed that the contemporary architecture profession has all but completely abandoned these all important variables and thus I went and worked for about half a decade after licensure in a couple of large-ish CM firms. Did project management on projects up to 55 million as well as focused in the cost estimating department for a year.

Sounds like you made some good choices. It baffles me the lack of attention that is given by architects in regards to time and cost.

Can you quantify how much that CM experience has helped your architecture career?

In a nutshell, the CM programs are picking up where the derelict architecture academics and professional practice has left off in terms of exposing students and practitioners to cost and schedule. Its crazy to me to think that the architectural profession can have tacitly taken such a self destructive tact as this. Suicide by omission.

Suicide by omission. That pretty much sums it up. And architects wonder why nobody wants to give them their money...

In my estimation the typical graduate of an accredited CM program has the same amount of experience and knowledge regarding cost and schedule as well as dealing with real world clients (businessmen and women as opposed to the echo chamber of ivory tower academics and starbuck sipping 20 something hipster students and esoteric theoreticians that is architecture school and practice these days) as a professional architect with 30 years experience. In other words in 4 years, CM programs give to graduates what it takes the average architect these days 30 years of knowledge and what is essentially accidental exposure to accrue.

You don't seem too fond of the architect-client dialogue. I'm intrigued. Could you elaborate on why you think a CM grad would be more adept than a regular architect at dealing with real world clients? I can think of a few reasons, but I can't nail one down...

In your case Happy you are getting the best of both worlds it sounds like.

I hope so for the cost of my education...

Assuming your degrees are accredited and you remain motivated to pass the A.R.E. and become a licensed architect (if you were in the U.S. I don't know how similar it is in Australia), your career will probably come knocking on your door.

They're accredited. I'm motivated.

 

[Nihilmatic]

What should my second major be for me to become a licensed architect with the least amount of years in bullshit courses spent

 

[Happy]

What should my second major be for me to become a licensed architect with the least amount of years in bullshit courses spent

I don't really understand the whole 'major' and 'minor' thing because I've not had any exposure to it (or any real interest, tbh), but I'd suggest changing your priorities from "what will allow me to finish in the least amount of time?" to something along the lines of "what will be most enriching to my life?". From what I've gathered, there may not be much opportunity for fast-tracking in this discipline. I'll leave that one open for other, more knowledgeable forum members to assist.

IMO The best thing you can do is find as much work experience as you can, as early as you can. I'm not sure if it's similar where you're from, but here, experience gained while studying counts toward your practical experience requirements, but there is a limit to how much you can gain before graduating as M.Arch. For me, the limit is half. It'll also help with the whole "least amount of years in bullshit courses" thing because practical experience makes the coursework a whooooole lot easier, reducing the bullshit factor significantly. You may also be able to use the experience to gain course credit. Perhaps you could learn some CAD skills now while you're in high school and get your foot in the industry door that way. Some people in my cohort did similar things to that and got to skip a few classes in the first year.

There were also a few people who did some lesser course in building design (which, if I recall correctly, they didn't need to finish high school to do), which allowed them to get into university with no high school qualification - and the fuckers got to skip the entire first year of uni...bastards.

I hope that's somewhat helpful.

 

[Happy]

I've considered studying Psychology a bit on my own time, but I'm not sure where to start.

I once asked my uncle the same question (he's a psychologist) and he said to me that the best way to learn about psychology was to go to a bar, sit down, and talk to someone.

I guess you can take that either literally or figuratively.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

NOTE: the following commentary applies to my experience in the U.S.

From what I've gathered, our system is very similar to yours:
-Minimum 5 years study (3+2);
-Minimum 2 years (with at least 3300 hours) practical experience, but that is the minimum and the reality is usually somewhat longer;
-Examination (APE) as well as an interview process with the registration board.

Huh. Interesting. I am quite fond of a particular group of individuals promoting the mastery of the marketing aspects of the profession wherein the most prominent member hails from Australia. Great deal of overlap then.

Your bachelor of CM will give you a massive advantage over other architects. I know this because I saw all the ignorance on the part of most architects in regards to the very important variables (dare I say...design variables?? LOLZ) of time and cost. I noticed that the contemporary architecture profession has all but completely abandoned these all important variables and thus I went and worked for about half a decade after licensure in a couple of large-ish CM firms. Did project management on projects up to 55 million as well as focused in the cost estimating department for a year.

Sounds like you made some good choices. It baffles me the lack of attention that is given by architects in regards to time and cost.

Can you quantify how much that CM experience has helped your architecture career?

Its difficult to quantify. I am 30 years ahead in terms of wisdom and cool headedness. Seen a lot of reality that most architects just haven't experienced (yes I am stating outright that the average architect practitioner is ignorant in major aspects of the very field they purport to be expert in. Like a painter who has never even touched his paintbrush to paint but merely prattles on about the idea). Seen a lot of how to deal with money, time, and the dirty business that so often is dealing with subcontracting bottom feeders. Management at the General Contracting level gives so much experience in terms of dealing with the big picture, which the typical architecture office does not.

As you likely know, the typical architecture office is basically a series of cow stables wherein the aspiring architect is really expected to be nothing more than a well oiled CAD monkey machine. Step out of line and its off with your head to boot. THIS IS NOT ARCHITECTURE. This is drafting. And sorting out the verifiable architects has beomce exponentially more difficult with all the mandated inclusionary thinking all the social engineers have force fed the schools. The schools are graduating drafters and a few architects and expecting the profession to sort them out (despite the facade out front and on the stationary which says "school of architecture"). It didn't used to be this way. Very unfair to the bonafide architects and a waste to society as well. But it is what it is I guess.

Managing the Construction process is pure business in terms of time and money and after a few years the motivations of all the players in the game begins to become completely obvious. Which helps in so many ways when putting the architect "designer" hat on. For example, being able to prioritize the energy and effort and particular focus of the end goal of a given day or a week (e.g. what is the most important drawing(s) to produce by day and time X in order to keep the client, contractor, and investors on board with what the end goal actually is) becomes second nature once the actual construction process and business process and subcontracting process and risk control processes have been experienced full time for a few years firsthand. 10,000 days is the estimate I've heard at least one reputable "expert" say it takes to become an expert in any given thing. = roughly 5 years? I did CM full time for almost 5.

Monetarily, if this is the benefit which is most easily quantified: there likely won't be a payoff in the first decade of one's career. Perhaps yes if you can get in at the right moment with the right sized design-build outfit for example. But in all likelihood (analogy is the stated length of time it takes to complete the IDP in the U.S. >3 years< and the actual time it takes the average candidate = 7 years...as you eluded to the same disparity of theory v reality in the training time period in Australia elsewhere in your post) it will take a decade or so to start paying monetary dividends. Its just the nature of the beast that is the nature of the work that defines the nature of the beast that is the paradigms established in prof practice. Ironic of course that a profession can be so utterly backwards and slow moving when it comes to its own internal workings when externally its speaks to everyone outside of it as "innovative"/ avante garde etc.

But...MANAGEMENT is the key. Learn this and you can rule them all. 15 years into professional practice and this is where I've started to take off. Pay will catch up. Nice thing is once you've begun to really establish yourself all those years of frustration and impatience with the system will pay dividends in nice professional accommodations and working relationships within the very same system which was frustrating earlier on in one's career. Just takes extra time to get there relative to other professions. In the right time and place you can still make a decent salary and work 50 hour weeks + be treated really well by colleagues and clients and don't have to break your balls working 90 hour weeks to make a decent+ salary.

Hope this makes sense.

In a nutshell, the CM programs are picking up where the derelict architecture academics and professional practice has left off in terms of exposing students and practitioners to cost and schedule. Its crazy to me to think that the architectural profession can have tacitly taken such a self destructive tact as this. Suicide by omission.

Suicide by omission. That pretty much sums it up. And architects wonder why nobody wants to give them their money...

Amen brother/ sister: preach on!

In my estimation the typical graduate of an accredited CM program has the same amount of experience and knowledge regarding cost and schedule as well as dealing with real world clients (businessmen and women as opposed to the echo chamber of ivory tower academics and starbuck sipping 20 something hipster students and esoteric theoreticians that is architecture school and practice these days) as a professional architect with 30 years experience. In other words in 4 years, CM programs give to graduates what it takes the average architect these days 30 years of knowledge and what is essentially accidental exposure to accrue.

You don't seem too fond of the architect-client dialogue. I'm intrigued. Could you elaborate on why you think a CM grad would be more adept than a regular architect at dealing with real world clients? I can think of a few reasons, but I can't nail one down...

There is a reason that the construction process is basically moving towards contractor led BUILD-DESIGN. If you are in the states, you'll notice I flipped the often repeated euphemism "design-build". The truth is practically all clients who are responsible for purchasing architecture services do not like dealing with people who don't/ can't/ have an aversion/ aren't comfortable speaking to/ about time and cost. Time and cost are what clients speak, in other words. It won't be until about 30 years after graduation until the average graduate of the contemporary architecture school will be fluent enough in time+cost speak that the typical client perceives them worthy of the "trusted adviser" role and want to bring them into the fold. Contractors, at least in the U.S. are much more likely to be contacted first and maintain contact with clients simply because they are fluent and refine their fluency every waking moment within the language of "time and cost".

Have I made sense of what rattles inside my skull sufficient to communicate the main idea in answer to your question? Does this answer your question? Let me know if you want me to try and further elucidate my position on this topic...

One more thing: Gehry and those like him (pretty much all the "architects" the contemporary academic ivory towers promote) are a complete ruse. The epitome of the anti-master builder Architect. He is so easy for the glossy magazine architecture pornography centerfolds to sell, though. Like the thoughtless, soulless heroin addicted self hating, self absorbed, supermodel. Attractive and infinitely alluring on the inside and expensive to prove it but dead and as meaningless as everyday dirt on the inside. But there will always be these photogenic flashy starchitects ever ready and willing to self promote and feed the cycle of promote-hire-brag-to-their-friends-repeat architects who are sycophants to the 1% wealthy richy riches. The rest of us, the 99%ers have to live in their fallout. One thing that would improve things for the 99% of architects and the 99% of the population they serve would be to, overnight, stop idolizing these posers and charlatans. Hope springs eternal I suppose...

Oh and just ONE more thing I promise: the title of this thread is funny. I have actually researched how to listen like a psychiatrist and implement techniques I've picked up on daily with clients and colleagues alike. Humans are crazy especially when the ego involved with the activity of building phallic structures and such gets involved.

 

[WALKYRIA]

Hey guys, wassup long time no see.
Me i just graduated med school here in europe, feelz good man... im heading to psychiatry and will start residency soon. Basically going to learn everything from zero since med school is mostly organic rather than "psychic"...i must say that im very happy because out of the bazillion jobs out there' psychiatry must he in the top 1% in terms of satisfaction(for me). So thats to say' its an amazing choice for the intp... and most specifically the 5w4 intp, you know the borderline humanist/technician; scientist/artist.. architecture would maybe be more apropriate for 5w6.

Although i might like what im going to start now, things have never been that clear... i was smart but lazy, extremely anxious but adventurious/curious and willing to take risks and explore, depressed and academically slow and unmotivated. My heuristics for going into med school were the following: "if you cannot enter and finish med school... than you'r not that smart/strong/creative/adaptative than you think...etc ". I was a typical intp, afraid of waisting my o so big potential and dying having accomplished nothing significant in this world... so i had to prooftest myself and my crazy beliefs in a way before i get to do the real thing;I as many young intp had an enormous and yet so shaky ego, was filled with bias and thought that i could conquer the world with sheer intellect alone... i didnt even know what medecine was allabout to be frank while most of my peers were prepared since highschool or before... so i managed to just jump in it as a mere attempt to test my "tridimensional self" and to know where i was in terms of potential. No one ever believed in my (not even myself), i was crippled with doubt, had that infamous impostor syndrome, but i faked it untill i eventually made it.... med school as i explained to mum was a sort of "school of life" for a young intp like mysel and i knew that once out of it, i would be completely transformed (and i am)... and during my journey, ive learned way more about humans(including myself) than i would ever had done with any other major. Yeah, ive passed my arduous auto-test... but was hard man!
**I can tell you from now on, med school was the hardest, most traumatizing but yet transformative thing ive ever done...and wouldnt have done it if it wasnt for psychiatry.

Also im not surprised to hear that intp think about psychiatry(its a mysterious job afterall, that attracts plenty of mysterious people) ... one study found that most psychiatrist are actually intp(ever heard that shrinks are crazy, eccentric, weirdo?), followed by entp and other introverted intuitives. (Order might change depending on the uni selecting process but thats pretty it).
Another interesting study found that although psychiatry is not very popular among the med schools populace (why would you go into 7 arduous years of medecine, than switch to relatively low paying psych, which is not even real medecine , afterall?loco, you could be a mllionnaire...), its actually highly popular among the very very top med students, md/phd programs. (The medical researchers, not the practicionners.)
Ive never been a top student (mostly intj) but the popularity is quiet normal to me, since the brain is the next big thing to research, so if anyone wants to pursue a career in research and yet wants tl have a cool job on the side... all the way psych! I believe that every serious smart and scientically orientated young student should follow the neuroscience path, not genetics, not physics.... brain mutherfucka. And thing is if you want to have the whole package, psychiatry is the path.

(++)of psychiatry: six figure $, relatively physically laid back, cool job seriously, privilege for gaining a deep knowledge and understanding of human mind, very conceptually and theoretically interesting field, intellectually stimulating environment, a field at the convergence of medecine/biology/social and human science/ and upcoming brain imaging technology, medical field with plenty of possibility for research (autism, alzheimer, sleep disorders, schizophrenia and hallucination, neurobiology and pharmacology...etc), quirky and accepting environement (majorityNPs)... oh and almost forgot the important one, you actually help, cure and directly or indirectly save some people's lives; which is even for intps, very rewarding (remember that suicide/depression/addiction are major causes of morbi- mortality in our modern but o' so unhappy societies ! ).

(-- )psychiatry: med school is long and socially draining (learn to jump hoops) but is a good reflection of the perversity of our society(good food for Ti), working with crazy people (which is actually cool), compared to other specialist earn less money and recognition, are not considered real doctors by other doctors and by public(seriously though, we dnt care... we only care about our patients anyways), mentally draining + working with dangerous patients, its the worse job if you don't like it (the best if you do), you spent your twenties studying and accumulating debt.

So, to put it briefly go into psychiatry if u:
- love neuroscience
- love to sit down and study
- love crazy/different/atypical people
- are an inp, inj and entp alowed.
- love to stand out from the crowd(the medical populace in other words)
- want to work in an intellectually stimulating environement.
- want to earn more in terms of $ , respect and recognition than a phd in psychology.
- Want to be a doctor.
- can get in and go through med school. (Especially for the intp, this is the hardest).
- financial and job security
- are good with delayed gratification



**why do i keep emphasizing that med school is hard? Because it is, not conceptually...but its socially draining for us, also there's plenty of bright, outgoing and yet hardworking people that gets all the rewards while your brain is busy wondering how to survive in this mess, its the law of the jungle seriously. There's also a lot of bullying in medecine(because of the ancient hierarchical structure, so as a med student, basically everyone is your superior and is entitled to tell you whatever they want.. so you better enjoy authority lol), not especially towards you but also towards others in the hospital scene. (Seems counterintuitive since people in the hospital are supposed to be so nice...). Another thing is creativity... as a young creative intp, if you want to study the material and adapt in med school you will put in A LOT of hard work and time...and everyone knows that med school beats every bit of creativity out of you for sake of conformity and dollars. (Can you imagine that the smartest most impressive and promising people go in to med school, and then end up doing what many consider a menial job... butchery... because surgeons are really higher level butchers except they work with humans !).

Voila for now c ya !