Finalizing RB's VTRPG

[redbaron]

D: D: D:

 

[Cognisant]

There's always next weekend.

 

[Jennywocky]

Home Internet is still not fixed (they need to restore basement power), and I guess gametime is about in 34 hours or something? I'll let ya know.

Technically I could have gone to Starbucks or McDonalds, but gametime for me is now 10pm so that isn't going to work. Maybe I can sit in the parking lot at McD's until 2amm, using their free net... hahahaha!

 

[Absurdity]

Technically I could have gone to Starbucks or McDonalds, but gametime for me is now 10pm so that isn't going to work. Maybe I can sit in the parking lot at McD's until 2amm, using their free net... hahahaha!

Isn't that 10 PM Aus time?

 

[Jennywocky]

Isn't that 10 PM Aus time?

I thought it was set to everyone's local based on what it did last time. Let me look.

EDIT: Can't find a way to set time zone, but I thought it was using your local time based on where you're at. The three times listed for me are Friday 10pm; Sat 10pm; Sun 10am.

 

[Absurdity]

I thought it was set to everyone's local based on what it did last time. Let me look.

EDIT: Can't find a way to set time zone, but I thought it was using your local time based on where you're at. The three times listed for me are Friday 10pm; Sat 10pm; Sun 10am.

Yeah well they're the same times for me, so unless RB is hosting the game inside a rift in spacetime I think he just forgot to set a time zone

 

[Jennywocky]

Yeah well they're the same times for me, so unless RB is hosting the game inside a rift in spacetime I think he just forgot to set a time zone

What a hoser.


So @RedBaron, what time in YOUR mind are the games supposed to commence?

If they're your time (AU), that would be Friday 10am, Sat 10am, and Sat 10pm for me.
Which means I could only make the two Saturday times.
... except I don't have Internet at home right now.

EDIT: Realizing I do have a workaround -- I can run an extension cord to the Verizon box in the basement from my apartment, down the private back steps, and thus turn on the box. Bwa ha ha. Well, at least, I could try it.

EDIT2: HAHA, turns out that the Verizon box / basement outlets were wired into my downstairs neighbor's breaker box, and they had their power turned off yesterday due to a "paperwork error." (Did they not pay their bill or the money get lost?) Anyway, the landlord is wiring the Verizon box/outlet into my breaker box and I should have Internet as soon as that happens; it's supposed to happen today, but we'll see.

 

[redbaron]

Wait, what the hell!

You're supposed to set your own timezone on the website and it then converts them for you. It's Saturday 10pm AEST - which is 13 hours (and 10 minutes) from now.

Which is Saturday 10am for you. Just keep me updated on the internet status, 13 hours is a while for it to be fixed (hopefully?).

 

[Jennywocky]

Wait, what the hell!

You're supposed to set your own timezone on the website and it then converts them for you. It's Saturday 10pm AEST - which is 13 hours (and 10 minutes) from now.

I set it on the first Doodle i ever did and it did the times just fine.

This time there was no link in the page, so I assumed it remembered my time zone. Apparently not. I still have no clue where the hell the link disappeared to, but that's why there has been some confusion.

Which is Saturday 10am for you. Just keep me updated on the internet status, 13 hours is a while for it to be fixed (hopefully?).

No, that's 8am for me. But I'll let you know when I get home.

EDIT: Well, the guy did not rewire the basement, unfortunately, and it's 10:30pm here.

BUT... I have the superlong outdoor extension cord from hell (always prepared!) and easily snaked it down two stories of the back spiral staircase and into the basement, so I could plug the Verizon boxes into it. So my Internet is actually working! BWA HA HA!

 

[Absurdity]

Fuck me not going to be a me to make it again.

 

[redbaron]

Absurdity why you do dis?!

Okay we'll give this week a miss. I wouldn't really want you to miss the parts that the group is likely going to encounter in the next session since it's the main part of the story arc, and I think Hado is a no-go as well.

I'll send out another doodle for next weekend (and select the correct timezone this time ). Enjoy your sleep-ins/nights off for this one.

 

[Jennywocky]

dammit, i busted my ass for this one.

arg. oh well, next week it is.

 

[redbaron]

Absurdity's fault. Blame him for everything. I mean everything.

 

[Jennywocky]

Flabsurdity.

He is Groot.

 

[Cognisant]

Damn you I haven't seen that movie yet!

 

[Jennywocky]

Me? I'm Star-Lord.

Aw, come on -- you haven't HEARD of me?

 

[Cognisant]

Alright now I have seen it, damn that was a good movie.

My only complaint would be the cinematography, for example when the guy with the arrow thing took out a field full of people it did seem like they were all just standing there dumbly for a good thirty seconds, of course as we transitioned from one shot to the next it's implicitly all happening more or less simultaneously but still such a well written movie deserves better in my opinion.

And the whole dying mother thing could have done in a flashback, of that opening 2-3min before he got abducted only about 30sec of it was really necessary.

Hopefully the sequel gets a better director.

 

[Cognisant]

So we're all set for this weekend?

 

[redbaron]

It'll be Sunday 10am AEST (people can't do Fri/Sat), pending Cheese and Absurdity who haven't responded yet. For Absurdity I think that's 5pm Sat and 8pm Sat for Jenny.

So yes if Cheese + Absurdity can make that time.

 

[Absurdity]

It'll be Sunday 10am AEST (people can't do Fri/Sat), pending Cheese and Absurdity who haven't responded yet. For Absurdity I think that's 5pm Sat and 8pm Sat for Jenny.

So yes if Cheese + Absurdity can make that time.

My bad. That time works for me.

 

[cheese]

Oh....dammit. My sunday. Ok then, I can do 10am. Sorry didn't reply earlier.

 

[redbaron]

No worries, thanks all. Session will go ahead at 10am AEST on Sunday

 

[Jennywocky]

10am AEST?!! OMFG




..... j/k

 

[Cognisant]

I'm nocturnal and usually got to sleep around 7am.

I hope next time we can do 10pm again.

 

[Absurdity]

Just got roped into going to church in two hours...

Feel free to boot me, RB.

 

[Cognisant]

Burn it down (bluff check) you know you want to.

 

[redbaron]

)=

Abssssuuuurrddddiiittttyyyyy nnnooooooooo!!

 

[Jennywocky]

FUCKING HADO

WHERE IS MY GREGGIEPUFFS?

 

[The Gopher]

Yeah hado won't be awake for that lol.

 

[Jennywocky]

He just got here. he forgot we started an hour early.

 

[Cognisant]

Spells used this session:
3x 1st
2x Dancing lights
1x Disguise

 

[Jennywocky]

How many spells do you have?

That sounds par for course for a 1st level spellcaster.

Let's face it, fighters have more to do in the early game, but in terms of the class tiers, the fighters in power only really ever get up to Tier 3, while it's spellcasters who dominate Tier 1 in the high game.

Basically, you gotta accept the limitation of your spells in the early game and have some other things figured out that you can do. As you level, you'll become more and more powerful. I'm actually trying to get my UMD up higher so I can use wands and stuff reliably at higher levels, to provide more versatility from just being the "fighter" and useless anywhere else.

 

[Hadoblado]

I am guilty of picking the very most powerful misc rape spells for the early levels. It wasn't thematic or anything, I just wanted to be able to contribute properly if needed. Spellcasters are generally next to useless until around level 5. Until then, it's more a game of seeing if you can do anything at all for the party without dying.

Your hypnotism is actually immensely powerful in that it scales into the later game. Where my spell requires a save, it also does less the higher the level of the monster.As soon as we're against HD3 creatures I'll drop off, and you'll still be going strong.

Crowd control doesn't feel as rewarding at times, but it's the most important part of the game. You don't get high numbers, but the value of distracting 3+ monsters is far greater than a critical hit.

 

[Cognisant]

I dunno I still think I've messed up my build, I mean every bloodline and arcane school comes with some basic spell you get to use twice plus your spell-casting modifier, mine's a fucking touch spell, whoopdee-friggen-doo I can cast vampiric touch (without the temp HP gain) seven times a day, or is it eight, doesn't matter either way because I'll never use it once.

No matter how you look at it that's a lot of spells to lose.

Then there's the fact I can't speak orc or goblin so everything but intimidate is lost to me, and even if I could communicate are you lot really going to sit around waiting while I scout ahead and sow discord in the enemy ranks, assuming I don't kill myself on a trap or get slaughtered when they see through my disguise?

Which brings us to my pathetic 4HP, a fucking breeze could kill me, more than once Redbaron has changed shit to prevent that and just this session I think we all knew that the arrows from that trapped chest were supposed to come straight out, now I moved before they were announced but not before Dom tripped the trap so that probably should have killed me.

What happens if enemies start using AOE attacks or we get ambushed?
A they going to specifically avoid attacking me every time?

Sure Takashi can cast daze and maybe throw a couple of sleep spells in there which makes him better than nothing but that's ALL he's better than (if he's not dying) and so what if hypnotism levels up, Greg's a wizard, he can learn it and sooner or later he will, perhaps from a scroll, a spellbook, the blood of another caster, or if he absolutely must he can make it one of the spells he learns when he levels up.

Guys I've fucked up my build that's all there is to it, I've done a backup character sheet for a longbow wielding elven wizard in anticipation of Takashi's death and she can do EVERYTHING he can do but she's got 50% more HP, with mage armour (1hour) and iron skin (10min) she has a flat-footed AC of +6 and a DEX modifier of +6, she can cast gravity bow at 1st level and arrow eruption at 2nd.

With cat's grace and the shield spell she's goddamn untouchable, firing arrows with a +10 modifier (arrow eruption levels up btw) and if she has the weapon finesse feat she can go into melee with dual Kukri (18–20/x2 crit) and who cares if she takes -4 on each attack, that's still +6 after cat's grace.

Compare this spell casting, arrow slinging, dual wielding, damn near untouchable, death dealing monster to poor old Takashi whose most significant contribution is the fucking daze spell, which she can also cast, ditto hypnosis & sleep.
Hell she can learn it from a scroll/spellbook/blood and write it into a scroll too.

Gravity bow + cat's grace = 2d6+10 with +10 to hit, with a range of 100ft and if it's a confirmed critical the damage is multiplied by three, and that's not considering the arcane strike (1st feat) which adds +1 (multiplies on crit) and means her attacks bypass all but the most specific damage reduction, and if it hits she can use arrow eruption next round to attack +2 nearby enemies at once with all the same bonuses, I kid you not.

Takashi, old & busted.
Odette, new hotness.

Old and busted, new hotness, old and busted, new hotness...

Gravity bow personified:

Spoiler

 

[Jennywocky]

I don't think jumping from character concept to concept is going to help. You keep seeming to think there is some magic combination that will make your toon the best, instead of actually bothering to learn and play the game as a low-level character. Some things, you learn by doing and sticking them out. You showed this pattern as a GM too, you don't seem to have a lot of patience for the game.

Let's face it, if there were some magical build at low levels, everyone would be playing it.

That being said, let me analyze some stuff in your post in more detail:


1. What if an enemy AOE's or ambushes us?

Good question. But we're level 1 characters and the GM scales the encounters. By the time we get to a point where the baddies are AOE'ing us, you should have enough spells and hit points to take an AOE and live (if barely) and otherwise have other spells to use that will help counter / protect the group, and of course the other spellcasters in the group including clerics will ALSO have the ability to buff/protect, which we'll need to be doing to defend against such things.

Also, our game strategy will develop to target such people. You should realize by now that casters can trigger AOOs if they are too close to combat and will have to make concentration checks, etc. i.e., there's a lot of ways built into the game that make it harder for spellcasters that a party can use. Of course, those strategies can be used against us as well. But unless your GM is a dick, it will be balanced fairly.

As far as ambush goes, we will need to be watching for this. We'll need to use spells to search around, use our heads, send scouts, and boost our perception.


2. You are gaining experience in builds, yes, by actually playing. Talk to the GM. If you fuck up your build out of inexperience, often the GM will let you tweak it rather than just ditching the character. I did this at 6th level with my rogue, actually, in another campaign; due to my still trying to grasp the intricacy of the game mechanics, my build didn't go in the way that would be useful, and he let me rebuild.

But some of this -- read the descriptions more carefully. Hypnosis for example specifically says (and it makes sense) that the targets have to be able to understand you. You seem very rational sometimes in game in determining what should be possible, then miss something simply like "How can you tell a critter what to do, if you can't speak their language?" The spell descriptions usually spell everything out. I guess you didn't really grasp that a touch attack for a spell effect is pretty sucky in an actual combat situation, unless you can get in and out without being slammed. You have to find a way to disable your enemy first, THEN touch attack... or make sure your touch attack kills them outright, etc.


3. max/min'ing your character also can bite you in the ass, if you don't pad your char out all around. For example, if you want to be combat proficient, maybe you can get away with it in the first level or two, but your BAB is much less than a fighter, and you even took minuses to hit probably due to low strength. You're a spellcaster. I think Greg is pretty crazy but pretty hilarious -- he totally accepts he gets minuses to hit and chose to boost his AC and actually still sneaks in there, and accepts he can't do much damage if any. You gotta accept the limitation. Everything in the game has limitations as part of balance.

For example, sorcs can cast spells on the fly but have a smaller pool. The wizard has to pre-choose all his spells for the day but has a larger number available in the spellbook. Realistically at low levels, you just won't have a ton of spells. So you have to use them judiciously and have some other skills to contribute with. For example, Greg threw out caltrops. It was a round of doing something useful. Think of things you can do to help level the playing field, even if you're not casting spells.



4. For your archer, please read the rules or ask questions. I won't do a full detailed review of it tonight, but for example Mage Armor is an armor buff, so it does not stack with other armor... you cannot wear leather + use mage armor. A +4 is nice at low levels, but at higher levels you'll start getting smacked... yet wearing heavier armor might interfere with your Dex bonuses and mobility; and if you choose Mage Armor, it will take the place of another spell that you could do something else with. [I'm not even sure what Iron Skin is - it's not on the wiz/sorc list. There is a hobgoblin monk ability that scales, and a feat that gives a nat armor +1 bonus to dwarfs, orcs, and half-orcs. But not elves.]

If you have a spellcaster that needs to cast buffs, note that that will take you a few rounds to 'gear up' if you rely on too many of those buff spells. Mage Armor you can have up for a decent amount of time, but Cat's Grace won't last very long. YOu don't want to spend the first three rounds of combat buffing up.

Wizards do not get a lot of weapons, although it looks like being an elf might give you a longbow prof for free. Anyway, please look at the weapon charts and just read the class description. (Note: I don't think kukri is on the list either.)

Wizards are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a wizard's movements, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

To be effective as an archer, you need feats. Your first two feats probably will be point-blank range + precision shooting (or whatever), so that you can actually shoot into combat while not taking a -4 to hit. And so on... if you want to be effective at archery, trust me, you'll need feats. Human fighters get the most feats; if you're a fighter/mage or a wizard, and especially non-human, you won't have the feats to be effective once the monsters start getting stronger... and like I said, WIZARD BABs SUCK. Your fighter's BAB is +1 per level. At level ten your fighter has a +10 just from her class, your wizard will have a +5... and you will be trying to shoot critters that are level 10 and higher, and will either have to buff your ass off, spend tons of gold on lots of magic, or complain because you can't hit things that your average level 10 fighter will hit regularly.

Note also how you want to be a better fighter as a wizard class than a FIGHTER is. (I took human fighter so I could actually buy all the feats I needed to be effective at double kukri's, for example. Without TWF, for example, you're at -6 and -10 to start with. I barely will have enough feats even as the most feat-intensive race/class combo in the game to be truly effective and not die at high levels.) The game is balanced so each class is good at some things and bad at some things; you have to accept the limitations. You don't seem to know the game well enough yet to realize what the limitations of each class/race are yet.

So here you are again, having this great plan for a character -- and that's how we learn -- but you will get frustrated again when your concept doesn't play the way you'd hope because you're still learning game mechanics.

I think you just need to settle in and PLAY for awhile and learn the game, and it will help you get a better sense of how builds work out and what is possible. Patience is a virtue...!

 

[Hadoblado]

(Elves get longbow proficiency free)

 

[Cognisant]

(Note: I don't think kukri is on the list either.)

Heirloom Weapon trait, it works for Martial weapons.
But not exotic weapons interestingly enough...

If you have a spellcaster that needs to cast buffs, note that that will take you a few rounds to 'gear up' if you rely on too many of those buff spells. Mage Armor you can have up for a decent amount of time, but Cat's Grace won't last very long. YOu don't want to spend the first three rounds of combat buffing up.

Unless there's extenuating circumstances Mage Armor +4AC should last an entire session, I get something like seven uses of Iron Skin which grants +2AC, sixteen is a respectable amount of armor for level 1 and I could cast Shield as well if we're ambushed from behind, otherwise I'd go with Gravity Bow for each encounter.

At second level Cat's grace will be an added buff for the really tough fights.

For example, sorcs can cast spells on the fly but have a smaller pool. The wizard has to pre-choose all his spells for the day but has a larger number available in the spellbook. Realistically at low levels, you just won't have a ton of spells. So you have to use them judiciously and have some other skills to contribute with.

Hence the bow, Takashi has a decent intelligence modifier but it does nothing for him in combat whereas buff spells last a while, I can put someone to sleep for 3-4 rounds or cast gravity bow and spend the next 9 rounds shooting people and at 2nd level the spell lasts twice as long!

But some of this -- read the descriptions more carefully. Hypnosis for example specifically says (and it makes sense) that the targets have to be able to understand you. You seem very rational sometimes in game in determining what should be possible, then miss something simply like "How can you tell a critter what to do, if you can't speak their language?" The spell descriptions usually spell everything out.

I thought we were going to start in a tavern or something, I thought I could charm people into helping us, I only took hypnosis because once I lost charm person I needed another spell to go with my enchantment build and that seemed the best option avalible.

You have to find a way to disable your enemy first, THEN touch attack... or make sure your touch attack kills them outright, etc.

That's the problem with Sleep, sure I can try to coup de grace someone but if I fail I'm dead meat.

To be effective as an archer, you need feats. Your first two feats probably will be point-blank range + precision shooting (or whatever), so that you can actually shoot into combat while not taking a -4 to hit.

Base +6 modifier, +4 from Cat's Grace, +2 from Reduce Person, all of this is increasing my accuracy and damage and if that's not enough there are other buffs specifically for increasing accuracy, also add another +1 to accuracy since it's a masterwork bow. If at +13 I can't hit something without resorting to true strike then we must be so high a level that I'll probably have other options avalible to me, not to mention spells that debuff opponents.

Note also how you want to be a better fighter as a wizard class than a FIGHTER is.

Meh that was mainly to make the point about Takashi's inadequacy, although kukri's are light weapons so I think the penalties are less than that, but even if they aren't and even if I was going to dual wield without the feat anyway with Cat's grace the penalties still wouldn't result in a negative modifier, the damage from weapon finesse (if I was going that route) would be +13 (including arcane strike).

Shits all over Takashi's spear at least.

 

[Cognisant]

So here you are again, having this great plan for a character -- and that's how we learn -- but you will get frustrated again when your concept doesn't play the way you'd hope because you're still learning game mechanics.

I think you just need to settle in and PLAY for awhile and learn the game, and it will help you get a better sense of how builds work out and what is possible. Patience is a virtue...!

Nothing you've written convinces me that Odette wouldn't be a vastly better choice than Takashi (mainly because he's a broken build) and if I am going to change my character I figure sooner rather than later is best, we're early enough in the game that I can wear the penalty of losing all my loot/gold and experience whereas later on starting with base gold would probably screw me.

 

[Cognisant]

The real bullshit is with +3 Int an elf gets +5 due to a racial bonus and a wizard with with that intelligence gets two extra first level spells, so that's three plus the bonded object's spell slot plus another gained from the arcane school, five first level spells.

Sure a wizard has to prepare spells but a sorcerer knows so few spells it really doesn't matter, a wizard can create 1st level scrolls for 50gp and learn them in all kinds of ways and the bonded object slot can be used to cast any 1st level spell without preparation, not to mention wizards get loads of skill ranks and with the student of philosophy trait they're no less charismatic than sorcerers or summoners.

 

[Cognisant]

*sigh*

I'm sorry if you guys want me to keep playing Takashi I will, it's a roleplay game after all, we're not in it to win it we're in it for the adventure.

 

[redbaron]

Okay going to give my 2cents: Takashi has amazing crowd control abilities, and his spell DC is seriously off the chart insane. DC 19 on charm spells at level 1 is ridiculous. The only reason your hypnotize spell didn't disable the entire enemy group for 8 rounds is they made some amazing saves. They rolled natural 18's and 19's - that's just really good (bad) luck. Even then, you still disabled 3 enemies in one round.

Takashi got unlucky with the enemy saving throws, but he's not built broken at all. You say how Greg can just learn hypnotize later - but he's never going to be as good at Charm spells as Takashi is. With your bonuses, your spell DC's for any enchantment/charm are going to be 4-5 ahead of Greg's at all times. You've actually built a very powerful sorcerer that can wreck an entire encounter - you almost did. If not for some exceptional rolls, you would have disabled eight enemies for eight rounds.

To put this into perspective, The DC for Greg's Color Spray is 15, hits a 15 foot cone area, and care has to be taken not to hit allies.
The DC for your hypnotize is 19, hits a 30foot area and can be cast anywhere with no chance of accidentally disabling your own allies.

Some mechanical things:

Weapon Finesse doesn't let you apply Dex to damage rolls. Only attacks. You still roll damage based on Strength.

Base +6 modifier, +4 from Cat's Grace, +2 from Reduce Person, all of this is increasing my accuracy and damage.

Cat's Grace is +4 DEX. You get +1 to hit for every 2 points of Dex. So it's +2 total. Reduce Person is a bad idea. It increases your chance to hit, but you can't use a weapon not sized for you - and it also decreases your damage.

Table for Gravity Bow Damage here.

If you're going to reduce your size from medium to small(?), you'll get a bonus to attack. Except you need to also have a small sized bow to fire - you can't use a longbow sized for a Medium character if you Reduce person. Now a Medium longbow does 1d8 damage. With Gravity Bow it hits for 2d6. If you use reduce person you're using a small longbow hits for 1d6. With Gravity Bow it will do 1d8 damage - sound familiar? A Small Gravity Bow does the same damage as a normal Longbow.

So now you're doing the same damage as if you didn't cast any spells at all, for a measly +1/2 to hit. You want to spend three Spells for that? Gravity Bow + Cat's Grace + Reduce Person?

We have a Cleric who gives that to the entire party with one spell.

So let's just get the actual numbers straight.

Wizard at level 2 with 20DEX.
+5 Dex modifier
+2 from Cat's Grace
+1 BAB.
Gravity Bow for medium longbow boost it to 2d6 damage.

In perfect circumstances the wizard fires one arrow at +8 to hit for 2d6+STR modifier damage.

Realistically though, against a target in melee a wizard fires one arrow at +4 to hit for 2d6 damage.

Ranger at level 2 with 20DEX.
+5 DEX
+2 BAB
+1 to hit and damage on attacks at a range up to 30feet.
No penalty for firing into melee with Precise Shot feat.
Extra arrow with Rapid Shot feat, for -2 to attack.

At long range, the Ranger fire two arrows with a +5 to hit for 1d8+STR modifier damage.

In most situations, the Ranger fires two arrows against a target in melee with +6 to hit for 1d8+1+STR modifier damage.

The Ranger is far more reliable and will do more damage in all but very specific situations.

~

As for the game lacking some social situations - I shoulder the blame for that one. I intended this dungeon to be completed by halfway through this session. Many parts of the campaign are going to be advantageous for social builds, which is where Takashi will be very useful. I'm not going to spoil story, so you'll just have to be patient.

Oh and I just remembered, Takashi also slept a very powerful half-ogre as well as an enemy mage in previous combats. That sleep actually made a huge difference. What if it had blinded Cacia on the first round of combat instead of one of the last, effectively removing half of the melee DPS for two rounds of combat, on top of making her an easy target for the enemy - that sleep might not be 'cool', but it makes a massive difference to how the fight goes.

Honestly, Takashi is about as powerful at this level as a Sorcerer generally is. You've got very powerful spells with high DC that you can use to support your party, but have weak fighting capabilities.

*sigh*

I'm sorry if you guys want me to keep playing Takashi I will, it's a roleplay game after all, we're not in it to win it we're in it for the adventure.

Really I don't think that's the point people are making. They're trying to explain that:

- Takashi is not as weak as you seem to think
- The solution is not to go and roll a gimped Wizard's version of a Ranger

Which reminds me about the spear part - you get this spell for free:

At 1st level, you gain a slam attack that deals 1d6 hp damage, and your successful slam causes mortal creatures to bleed. This is as the cantrip, but affects non-dying creatures (1 hp/round until healed or stabilized by the Heal skill). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

You get 8 per day with your Cha modifier.

It's way better than a spear

 

[Cognisant]

So I slam at best a sleeping orc, waking him up, I'm pretty sure I can't make a touch attack and run away so the moment he gets a turn he could kill me outright (reduced to dying) with one good hit from a 1d4 dagger, which just further's the absurdity of Takashi being in the front where any other orc could charge him or shoot him. Yeah it's just all kinds of not happening, now it would screw my character's backstory and I don't like what it'll do to my character cosmetically but if we switched him to the aboleth bloodline he instead gets to throw acid balls, a ranged attack which he could actually use.

I don't really want to be aboleth blooded but you get the idea, I dun goofed.

Oh and I just remembered, Takashi also slept a very powerful half-ogre as well as an enemy mage in previous combats. That sleep actually made a huge difference.

Honestly, Takashi is about as powerful at this level as a Sorcerer generally is. You've got very powerful spells with high DC that you can use to support your party, but have weak fighting capabilities.

Yes Sleep is a great spell and Takashi has a high DC but with the same Insistent Benefactor trait my elf wizard or whatever could cast exactly the same spell exactly the same number of times at a DC17.

As for the game lacking some social situations - I shoulder the blame for that one. I intended this dungeon to be completed by halfway through this session. Many parts of the campaign are going to be advantageous for social builds, which is where Takashi will be very useful. I'm not going to spoil story, so you'll just have to be patient.

Now this is the core of the problem I minmaxed Takashi for manipulation and subterfuge, to allow me to truly make use of his abilities that means putting us in a social situation where everyone else is useless, where a high bluff/intimidate skill isn't enough, now as awesome as it would be for me to run around doing the whole James Bond thing it's going to suck for everyone else and frankly the game just isn't designed for this, my whole guile hero thing was a bad idea from the start.

There's nothing wrong with your game, despite my incompetence these sessions have been a blast and I'm sure nobody wants to spend a session with their weapon's sheathed just so the oddball can have his time in the sun.

Besides from a RP standpoint Takashi retiring makes sense, he's not cut out for dungeoneering and just this session he was almost mortally wounded, with 150gp and an employer who as far as we know isn't paying what exactly is his motive for continuing to risk his life when he could find a tavern and spend the next six months straight getting drunk and laid?

 

[The Gopher]

So in other words Cog is playing a single player RPG and everyone else is in multiplayer?

 

[Jennywocky]

(Elves get longbow proficiency free)

Yeah, I fixed that bit last night -- I went into Hero Lab and actually did a quick build and realized I'd forgotten about Elf weapon freebies.

 

[Jennywocky]

*sigh*

I'm sorry if you guys want me to keep playing Takashi I will, it's a roleplay game after all, we're not in it to win it we're in it for the adventure.

My point is not about who "we want you to play," it's that you're trying to solve a problem in a way that I don't think it can be solved. IOW, if you leap to another character, I fully expect you in two more sessions to be complaining about how you feel worthless and incapable of doing what you envisioned, and wanting to switch yet again. I do not think you will be happy, and meanwhile each time you swap out a character, the entire group has to relearn our play strategies.

If you want build help with either the archer or Takashi, we can discuss it. I actually did do some prelim work on the archer build a few months back and was looking at how to get Gravity Bow into it or "magic" of some kind into it -- you can either (1) go archetype (like zen archer or arcane archer?), (2) toss in a level of wizard so you're a fighter/wizard, (3) team with a wizard who will carry the spells you want and buff you each fight, or (4) wait some levels and get your UMD skill up high enough that you can carry assorted wands (like for gravity bow, etc.) and just zap yourself before combat.

I get a LOT Of benefit over build searching on Google, which usually dumps me on a forum somewhere where experienced players argue about what builds work best. It's the easiest way to learn what the strengths and flaws of various approaches are for any character concept or class you are considering. I mean, face it, if you are looking for synergy or ways to maximize potential, someone's already considered the entire thing and knows the in's and out's.

EDIT: Yeah, what RB said. Takashi might not seem glamorous, but your DC's on your spells are insane. I tried to bulk up Jessa's DC on her slumber spell at level 1, and I would have to burn a feat that works on just one Hex to get her Slumber to 19. The bulk of stuff we fight has lousy Will saves -- the monsters who likely will make the save are just the spellcasters and clerics, but anything else is pretty much screwed. (In the same way, it's best to aim Fortitude-save spells against wizards; the fighters excel at those saves.)

I didn't also mention (comparing fighter archers to wizard archers) that fighters shoot two arrows at level 6, three arrows at level 12, etc. Wizards don't get a second attack with the bow until level 12 (when their BAB hits +6). So yeah, at level 12, you have a wizard with two shots at +6/+1, and a fighter archer who has three shots at +12/+7/+2 + specialized training. And then you have to factor in all the other bonuses and minuses.

So in other words Cog is playing a single player RPG and everyone else is in multiplayer?

Well, the best benefit of being on a team is that you can be good at stuff that no one else is, and they can be good at the stuff that you are not.

There's nothing wrong with your game, despite my incompetence these sessions have been a blast and I'm sure nobody wants to spend a session with their weapon's sheathed just so the oddball can have his time in the sun.

If the social scenarios are handled well, they should still be fun for everyone. If you actually bother to use your disguise and hypnotism with people you know something about and can speak the language with, you'll rule the day and could save our bacon / enable us to get opportunities far beyond expectations. It's like you don't understand what you have.

I mean, considering if you don't have a lot of gold but want to buy some gear; you can actually make magic gear affordable, get the good graces of the town rulers, etc. Lots of other possibilities as well.

When I was playing my Enchanter pixie in D&D years ago, it was a hoot. (His name was Bixby.) Of course, I played him up so that he thought he was much better than he was (even though he was decent). Bragging about being the best enchanter in the world one day, etc., and getting himself into trouble every other turn... He generated enough of the plotline just on his own.

 

[Jennywocky]

Wait, we leveled yesterday, right?

 

[Cognisant]

I could just change my bloodline to Psionic, I'll still have exactly the same +2 to compulsion spells so it would affect nothing that has happened thus far except I would exchange the useless touch attack for this:

Hand of the Psion (Su): At 1st level, you can cause a melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Charisma modifier to the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Beats the hell out of using Daze over and over.

 

[Cognisant]

As for the archery not levelling, even with Gravity Bow and Cat's grace the usefulness does begin to drop off at about level 4-5 but then I can enchant the bow, the arrows, start buying specialty arrows. It won't make the archery as good as what a fighter or ranger could do but she's still a wizard and hasn't really lost anything in that regard, she's still useful as a wizard, she just also happens to have the option of a ranged attack.

Again it beats the hell out of casting Daze over and over.

 

[redbaron]

I could just change my bloodline to Psionic, I'll still have exactly the same +2 to compulsion spells so it would affect nothing that has happened thus far except I would exchange the useless touch attack for this:

Hand of the Psion (Su): At 1st level, you can cause a melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Charisma modifier to the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Beats the hell out of using Daze over and over.

Done. I'm fine with this.

Honestly I think you're better off just going with Arcane bloodline and actually playing a sorcerer like a sorcerer. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with contributing to the party with physical damage when you're a wizard. It would really make your life (and mine) 176x easier if you would either:

- play Takashi and accept that he's not a fighter
- roll a Ranger or Magus - classes who are actually designed to be used in the way you seem to be trying to build this Wizard. They deal decent physical damage while providing spells and utility in the process.

There are ways to make unique/interesting builds, but you need to understand the mechanics of the game in depth to do that properly. The problem is not only do you not seem to understand certain important mechanics of the game, you're not making unique builds - you're making gimmick builds.

The issue with this, is that the people who make this game go to great lengths to ensure that the game is balanced. Meaning that unless you really do have in-depth knowledge and know the game inside out, you're just not going to be able to manage any attempt at exploiting it with a gimmicky build.

 

[redbaron]

One last thing. Takashi is somewhat the ideal party member with the rest of the group.

Greg specializes in knowledge and has versatility in magic. He's got great utility and fits into a few roles. Cheese can heal, buff or do some decent damage in melee.

Cacia and Dom are monsters at both close-mid range. Dom won't match Cacia for damage output and tankiness - but he has the best saving throws of anyone and also has higher movement speed. Cacia will do the bulk of the party's physical damage.

So that leaves the group lacking in two key areas that Takashi fills. He's the social face of the group and he has by far the most powerful magical damage. Sorcerers don't have the flexibility in utility that Wizards do, however they have more raw power and greater social capabilities.

I'm okay with you changing the bloodline and I've sent you some recommendations for shuffling around ability scores to better suit. You don't need to run around with 4HP and with the Psionic bloodline yes, you will have some better low-level wriggling room.