Yet Another: "Will you help me type this person?" thread

[Nibbler]

Hi!

I know this is informal and it's only speculation, but I'm hoping you can assist with typing these traits:

• Introverted
• Easily distracted or lost in their head.
• Values security above all else ("Job with benefits!" vs "Do what you love")
• Security: Values having a SO who can take care of problems. First ideal of a partner is ability to pay their bills and take care of things which has always resulted in poorly matched relationships and frustration at the other person's (SURPRISE!) selfish natures.
• Values appearance: Attentive to keeping house, car, themselves TIDY and CLEAN and PRESENTABLE.
• Wasteful: Throws everything away. "I'll buy another if I need it."
• Business degree, professional paper pusher..
• Successfully negotiates sales deals by asking endless practical questions making the sales person feel like they are putting this customer out. Otherwise they don't complain once the deal is done.
• Solving personal conflict is best solved by money, not mutual understanding.
• Actually very generous with their money with family but it's with the unspoken string attached that it's in lieu of taking responsibility for personal resolution.
• Not empathetic (If this person tries to see another person's perspective, they cannot do it without first applying the problem to themselves--which hinders empathy and results in coming to overly simplistic & insulting conclusions about other people.)
• Values other people's children (mostly sons) for all kinds of reason. Never compliments their own children (unless they see "security" in it.)
• Fairly selfish in their practical civic responsibilities: Doesn't see what's wrong with driving slow in the passing lane. Incredulously says: "There's no law I have to go the limit!" and cannot be convinced otherwise. "Well... Why don't they PASS?" but cannot see they are the ones blocking everyone's ability to pass properly.
• They have feelings and can cry and be furious and frustrated for themselves but hates other people's emotions.
• Good sense of humor, but not overly sophisticated. No toilet humor but will laugh if in the right mood.
• Enjoys world travel.
• Before higher education, used to read prolifically (auto/biographies mostly)
• Favorite movies are light fare (romantic comedies, current Oscar nominations, literary classics and 60's romantic comedy classics.
• Favorite TV is the national news, current affairs talk and CNN mostly, and only some adult oriented sitcoms. Hates angry pundit talk shows.

THANKS!

Signed,

INTP child at wits end!

 

[Cherry Cola]

Sounds like an ISTJ. Except for the "easily distracted or lost in their head"-part. The wastefulness stands out too I guess. Still, if they don't categorize something as a resource SJ's can waste it, they aren't always logical in this sense. Stuff costs money, money is a resource; thus it follows that stuff shouldn't be wasted. Or so one would think. Alas partial wastefulness may serve as an outlet for the caused by an immature extroverted intuition. The weakness of this function in ISJ's means they are incapable of being holistically logical. As they are both unable to see their inner world holistically (as do Ni users) and unable to consciously scrutinize and improve on its morphology (their introverted sensing will halt their attempts to analyze themselves via the lens of Ne; they'll feel like they are betraying themselves, their identity, what gives them worth; like they are at risk of throwing themselves in with the hapless masses by allowing their resolution to be threatened by self serving arbitrary rationalizations like those of the irresponsible many who are responsible for all the bad in the world; attempting to master the dominant with the help of the inferior does not come natural to anyone) they are at the mercy of primordial pre-rationality in a sense.

 

[Alias]

Maybe ISTJ or ISTP. Although ISTPs sometimes tend to have a disliking for large amounts of consecutive education. My bets are on ISTJ, since the high value of security and presentability leans toward him/her being a Guardian (SJ). Probably not ISTP now that I think of it.

 

[Nibbler]

Thanks for the insight, Cherry Cola and Alias. I forgot to put on the list the following, but I think it's largely unnecessary now. But in my INTP-ness, I cannot resist leaving a rock unturned.

This person finds no general value in childhood personal development because (and I quote in all seriousness):

1. "Children should not be told they can be president. Because when they grow up to find out they can't be, they will only have a life of disappointment." (!)

2. "Personal interests are only a phase. Learn to type instead." (!)

3. "Everyone shouldn't be encouraged to go to college. Most people should only learn a skill they can use to get a job somewhere and start saving." (!)

4. General passive-aggressive offense and self-pity if the above backfires and hurts someone. To pursue a different life-plan is an implied insult, taking it as a personal rejection of who they are.

FUN FACT!

Yesterday I gave them the link to Personality Page's portrait of an INTP to help understand me better, to see I mean nothing maliciously just for not being the same. "I come by who I am honestly!" This is the response I got:

(verbatim) "Thank you for sending the link. I don’t really understand it, but that’s me."



I am POSITIVE they only saw the part where INTPs don't prefer emotional arguments and so then the entire profile got classified as incomprehensible and (AND!!!) "that's me".



All along I knew this person cannot see someone else's perspective without seeing through their own eyes first, but that was a DOOZY of an unexpected example. And! Not one word of response in understanding me better. Ugh.

Anyway, thanks!!! ISTJ probably is right. Though they don't want to understand me, I DO want to understand. I will read up.

TA!

 

[Nibbler]

Sounds like an ISTJ. Except for the "easily distracted or lost in their head"-part.

I think it's distracted type of ADD (which I have, too, making my INTP-ness harder). I put it in there to see if it was a curve ball or an actual thing. It's probably just a curve ball.

The weakness of this function in ISJ's means they are incapable of being holistically logical. As they are both unable to see their inner world holistically (as do Ni users) and unable to consciously scrutinize and improve on its morphology (their introverted sensing will halt their attempts to analyze themselves via the lens of Ne; they'll feel like they are betraying themselves, their identity, what gives them worth; like they are at risk of throwing themselves in with the hapless masses by allowing their resolution to be threatened by self serving arbitrary rationalizations like those of the irresponsible many who are responsible for all the bad in the world;

Yes! I have tried for years to foster personal understanding between each other, and that I'm not who they wanted me to be because their parenting philosophy actually held me *back*, therefore I am not who I wanted to be. And I had to overcome a lot of those mental roadblocks (and verbal and physical abuse)... and each time it ends in *their* offense and I'm the bad guy.

I'm no longer trying to cultivate an intellectually honest (iow "healed") relationship. I just want to understand privately now.

 

[Cherry Cola]

<The stuff you added really fits the ISTJ bill. ISTJs need stuff to be simple and clear or familiar, they can't just pick up information if it isn't familiar to them, not without feeling uncanny and expending considerable effort. I mean they aren't mentally retarded people, ofc they could've read the INTP profile and gotten something out of it, but it would be an unpleasant experience. If it was in some curriculum it would've been okay, because you gotta follow the curriculum, even if what you read seems weird you'll get it eventually cause its been approved by the people who make curriculums so it's official and shit. But an online link to some random shit? No way. It's probably going to appear like some self help crap that an xSTJ won't be interested in until he or she is old enough and on solid enough ground to begin exploring their tertiarty and inferior, or due to an inferior Ne episode following some kind of crisis. Which might never happen.

We are talking a dominant Si type here, they don't dabble. They have a need to feel like they are competent, and they feel competent by having shit anchored in Si. Si is good at efficiently processing factual information and procedure, but not theoretical frameworks revolving around something as fluid and abstract as psychology based on Jung. They aren't good at drawing lines between dots, so they need lots of dots, dots upon dots, dots until they form clusters.

If they get to use lots of dots they can be capable in the abstract realm. But they can never be efficient, because creating all those dots to form clusters takes time, it is painstaking. Now what would those dots be in this case? The context of the profile.

"Okay it's personality profile that's cool. But what is MBTI anyway? Is it a trustworthy source? I got it from this guy with his head in the clouds after all? I'm not sure why I'm doing this. Wait what does this mean? I don't get it hmmm... WTF why am I wasting precious time and resources on this meaningless shit? I have real stuff to get done. But social protocol demands this... argh goddamnit I'ma just reply something polite"

Remember inferior Ne is negative, paranoid; where ISTJ cannot see context they project a negative backdrop. Hence for the ISTJ to read that profile, he or she has to dive into a negative context they've themselves created.

If you want to make an ISTJ understand something, appeal to their Te. They need to see the usefulness of something. What you did was appeal to Ne and Fi.

Appealing to their Si of course super effective, but also not possible without time and the right circumstances.

 

[Nibbler]

"Okay it's personality profile that's cool. But what is MBTI anyway? Is it a trustworthy source? I got it from this guy with his head in the clouds after all? I'm not sure why I'm doing this. Wait what does this mean? I don't get it hmmm... WTF why am I wasting precious time and resources on this meaningless shit? I have real stuff to get done. But social protocol demands this... argh goddamnit I'ma just reply something polite"

Remember inferior Ne is negative, paranoid; where ISTJ cannot see context they project a negative backdrop. Hence for the ISTJ to read that profile, he or she has to dive into a negative context they've themselves created.

Aagh! Yessah! (I'm not used to people who get it immediately! Yes!) About 10 years ago (still adult) I was accused of being a judgmental child. I was consistently demanded to "take that look off your face!" when doled out punishments for wildly irrelevant infractions. Both of my parents used to astound me with their authoritarian approach to dealing with me and it always resulted in my sheer frustration and their wild accusations of defiance just for asking questions (the older I got, the more incredulous my tone of voice) and "the look!"

Paranoia for sure.

I once came home from school late for working on a research project (for ONCE I got an early start) and forgot to call home. I got home around 5. I was told "NO MORE LIBRARY!" as a punishment and one of their biggest complaints about me were my grades. No more LIBRARY? I looked at them in complete disbelief and was threatened if I did not shut up, take that look off my face and go upstairs "and do your homework now!" that things were going to get much worse. ("Much worse" involved violence.)

That's what I dealt with and I'm always the bad guy.

If you want to make an ISTJ understand something, appeal to their Te. They need to see the usefulness of something. What you did was appeal to Ne and Fi.

Appealing to their Si of course super effective, but also not possible without time and the right circumstances.

I will use this information for different people for now on. But for now (at least for now) I'm done trying to repair this particular part of my life.


THANK you VERY much.

For the record, the profile was my mother. But my dad is the narcissistic extroverted task master authoritarian version who expected nothing but excellence--socially gregarious and full of loud laughter, but in private the controlling warden who thought it was an insult to his authority to give his children some positive words of encouragement.

Her: "Aim low. You're going to fail anyway."
Him: "YOU ARE NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH!!"

that's some heavy shit.