Yet another IQ thread

[Xiano]

EDIT: I didn't realize how long this post was going to be until submitting it. So if your not in for some boring reading then just back out now.

I started typing this thread with a #include then realized stupid your not programming. Hopefully I have arrived at the right place. Brief history on me:

Age 16 - dropped out of high school and got my GED
Age 17 - started attending a community college and had my first seizure
Age 18 - had my second seizure well technically three over the span of an hour
Age 19 - Went to a different college to get a bachelors in Computer Science
Age 21 - Dropped out of college and moved back home due to Major Depression

A few months after moving back home I went to my neurologist for a follow up and told him about it. He referred me to a Neuropsychologist due to my feeling of impairment to my memory. I was stupid enough to go into the office and not realize until I got the report that I was basically taking an IQ test. I was currently suffering from major depression at the time and suffered through it for about 2 years. I didn't know anything about depression and I actually refused to see a therapist for it. After a while though I got desperate because I wasn't getting better but worse. There was a point of this can't get any worse to hitting rock bottom. But who cares. This test was obviously taken during the depression period about a year and half ago.

Well I just want to share with you the parts that I think that are relevant that she wrote in her report.

Behavioral Observation:

The patient was noted to be pleasant and cooperative throughout the evaluation and appeared to put forth his best effort. Language and comprehension were sufficient to sustain testing although word finding difficulties were evident. The patient is generally noted to have rather halting speech. He also displayed psychomotor slowing and increased response latency. Otherwise, motor functioning and gait were within normal limits. Attentional abilities were fair. The patient was generally aware of poor performances and appeared to have adequate insight. His mood was reported as euthymic although his affect was somewhat restricted. Overall, the results of this evaluation do appear to represent an accurate indictation of the patient's current level of cognitive functioning.

Cognitive and Intellectual Functioning:

Several subtests of the WAIS-IV Tests of Intelligence were administered as a means of evaluating intellect and neuropsychological functioning. The patient's attentional abilities were noted to be Average (Standard Score of 90). Verbal abstract reasoning was Low Average (Standard Score of 85). On two nonverbal tasks assessing visual perceptual skills and nonverbal reasoning his performances ranged from Mildly Impaired to Very Superior(Standard Scores of 65 and 130, respectively). Psychomotor speed was noted to be Low Average (Standard Score of 80).

Reading recognition was Average (Standard Score of 97). The patients ability to reproduce a copy of a complex visual design was Severely Impaired (Standard Score of 55). In regard to language skills, verbal fluency was Borderline (Standard Score of 79). Confrontational naming abilities were noted to be Severely Impaired with a Raw Score of 33.

Nonverbal executive functioning was formally assessed using the Trail Making Test. On Part A, which requires the sequencing of numerals, his performance was Borderline (Standard Score of 71). On the more complex part B, which requires a rapid alternation between numbers and letters, his performance was Significantly Impaired.

Quick Note: I like how it went from Severely Impaired to Significantly Impaired with the last one without a score. It was so bad it was not even measurable I'd presume lol.

Learning and Memory:

Two subtests of the Wechsler Memory Scale IV involving verbal and visual learning and memory were administered. The patient's initial recall of two logical stories after hearing them was Severely Impaired (Standard Score of 55). Short term recall for the stories 30 minutes later was also Significantly Impaired (Standard Score of 55).

On a second task involving the visual reproduction of designs from memory immediately after studying them his performance was Borderline (Standard Score 70). Short term recall for the designs thirty minutes later was Low Average (Standard Score of 85).

On the CVLT-II which assessed his ability to learn a list of words across several learning trials his performance was Low Average (Standard Score of 85). Short term recall for the words thirty minutes later was Average (Standard Score of 95).

The Connors Continuous Performance Test II which assessed attentional ability his performance indicated a 42.1 percent chance of a Clinically Significant attentional deficit does exist. These findings are somewhat equivocal.

Findings:

Neuropsychological testing together with education, employment, and life history indicates an individual of overall premorbid mental abilities in the Average Range with an IQ equivalent of 100 or so. The patient does perform within the Superior range with regard to nonverbal reasoning. Attentional abilities and reading recognition are both Average. Verbal abstract reasoning and psychomotor speed are both Low Average. However, verbal fluency is Borderline and below premorbid estimate. Furthermore, visual perceptual skills, visual constructional skills, naming and nonverbal executive functioning are all Impaired and below premordbid estimate.

Results from the Continuous Performance Test II were rather equivocal indicating a 42 percent chance that a Clinically Significant Attention-Deficit does exist.

In regard to memory skills, new learning and short term memory of verbal material within a logical context are both Impaired. Visual learning is Borderline and visual short term memory is Low Average. Verbal learning with repetition and rehearsal is Low Average and short term recall is Average. The etiology is certainly difficult to determine. This may be related to his seizure disorder but it does appear that the patient was experiencing some degree of deficit primarily noticed in the school setting prior to the onset of his seizures. There is certainly evidence of mild attentional difficulty which would naturally accompany frontal lobe dysfunction. There is no overwhelming evidence of significant ADHD.


Impressions::
Overall, the patients neuropsychological profile only provides evidence of a moderate degree of cognitive deficit. He does display memory impairment primarily with regard to one trial learning of verbal information. He clearly has deficits in that area, however, his verbal memory significantly benefits from repetition and rehearsal suggesting an encoding based deficit. In addition, his visual memory is essentially intact. He does however, demonstrate notable deficits with regard to visual perceptual skills, expressive language, and nonverbal executive functioning. Essentially, he is primarily presenting with frontal lobe dysfunction. The etiology is certainly difficult to determine. This may be related to his seizure disorder but it does appear that the patient was experiencing some degree of deficit primarily noticed in the school setting prior to the onset of his seizures. There is certainly evidence of mild attentional difficulty which would naturally accompany frontal lobe dysfunction. There is no overwhelming evidence of significant ADHD.

Recommendations:

At this point, the patient clearly has to continue with medication management of his seizure disorder. I do believe that he may benefit from psychostimulant medication, or at least a trial of medication, to see if his processing abilities can improved somewhat. He is capable of learning and retaining information but does require repetition and rehearsal. This will be important for him to remember when it to learning strategies in an academic setting. Should he decide to return to college I would recommend a complete psychoeducational evaluation so that he could qualify for special provisions in school. Furthermore, obviously his depression should continue to be monitored although there apparently has been an improvement. It may be of benefit to consider a medication other than Klonopin as this may further contribute to some of his cognitive difficulties. Thank you very much for asking me to assist in the evaluation of this patient.

MY TAKE:
Well being an INTP that certainly is something depressing to read. Considering an INTP prizes the mind and intelligence. Not even speaking for INTPS before I even knew the MBTI existed it was something I had always prized. I'm not entirely sure how I'm able to function with significant impairments in most areas. The rest being Borderline, Low Average, and Average. I must be clinically the most dumb INTP to exist. Even she noted it would take 5x as much repetition and rehearsal to be even average intelligence.

Which may explain why I am 23 years old still depending on my parents. Never had a job. To be fair I am quite good with computers. However apparently not intelligent enough to even get a basic technician job at best buy. I do notice that with reading a lot of the times. I'll forget everything I just read and have to reread multiple times. Just so I can remember it and not much longer until I understand it. Which may have caused the major depression in the first place. I was getting A's in classes at college but that quickly died off probably because I was burnt out. I mean if I have to spend 5x as much time on something to get it. Then I have to work twice as hard or more. Which again probably burnt me out.

Especially when six months into the program my teacher called me a cheater which pissed me off so badly. Because I had failed the class which was the first class I failed. Then the week we had inbetween retaking the class I had programmed my own software to generate me practice questions based off the practice test. Then I would enter the answer and it would check if it was the correct answer. Did that over and over until it bored me to death. Then to talk into class and after the first week turn in 3 assignments and be called a cheater and given a 0 on all of them wasn't really devastating if I wasn't so determined to really learn the material and to have put so much effort into it more than likely than any one else. Needless to say I was pissed and didn't return to class. Which was only a downward spiral until 9 months later I just left. I quit. Which after dropping out of high school promising I would never give up no matter what. Unfortunately I took it a bit too far until I was so depressed and didn't even realize it until it was too late to do anything about it.

This is a really long post. Their's really not a question in it. A little bit much of mushy stuff. But I guess it would be interesting to those who would never believe how an INTP can be have a severe clinical deficit in so many areas of intelligence. That's not to say that INTP's are more intelligent than other types or that other types are less intelligent. It's just with an INTP that relies so heavily upon intelligence is simply not capable of much in that respect.

 

[Debra]

Sooo many different kinds of intelligence. I am terrible at remembering things, but an indepth subject I can understand when everyone else is lost. I have had trouble with jobs as I forget the details. People may think I am stupid but my depth of thought and seeing the big picture leaves them in the dust. They have no clue. It is hard to find a job that utilizes my particular assets. You write very well, your thought processes seem clear. Believe me many people cant do that. I kind of understand what you are going through, but probably not enough. The best anyone can do or say is just the truth. Life sucks and will continue to suck. That part I can really understand.

 

[JansenDowel]

I would highly recommend not sharing such intimate details online. It can have a degrading affect on your self esteem. Its best to share with someone close to you. Also, I hope you can find your way through this!

 

[ZenRaiden]

Long term depression is most certainly going to lower your IQ. The memory problems are no surprise. Major depression is a brain killer.

 

[TBerg]

Depression suppresses memory because it suppresses a life that you consider threatening in some form or fashion. Everything seems to be an aspect of a threat, so everything must be suppressed.

 

[ddspada]

I agree. Clinical depression can, and does, wreck every aspect of people who suffer it, including what your doctor may call 'intelligence' -- of which there are many manifestations beyond what's measurable.

Here's hoping your situation improves in the most benign way possible. Best wishes.

 

[EditorOne]

Nobody yet has mentioned the seizure meds. Someone close to me took them because the doctors were afraid she'd have a seizure. Her IQ dropped probably 20 points, she couldn't find the right words to express herself, her ability to focus pretty much lasted about two minutes. She calls it "the stupids."

Before you accept the analysis of one person and one set of tests, consider the combined effects of both clinical depression and whatever magic pills they're giving you. If you simply take each med and look it up online, you'll get some insight into side effects. There's also a site that details med interactions with each other: http://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker Also, I've been told by a doctor that once you are taking more than six drugs (which is not that uncommon these days) their interactions can no longer precisely be determined.

Just for good measure, allow me to suggest an alternative explanation for your life inertia: You think too much and because it's impaired by drugs and depression, you're even more immobilized than the average INTP.

 

[Reluctantly]

I don't know why people put so much stock into that IQ testing stuff. It's not a predictor of one's ability to find happiness, be successful, or find fulfillment out of life. It doesn't even grant one genius status - that's something to be earned by others through actually applying intelligence to understand things in ways that actually helps solve problems.

Plus you mention that you have to read things multiple times to get it; it might seem like that makes you less intelligent, but if you're like me, you either think of a million different associations and take a while to hone in on what's being said or your mind is focused on other thoughts and it can take conscious effort to focus your mental activity on something specific. Even worse, if you're like me, you can easily become obsessed in fully understanding a concept, getting lost in contradictory reflection. It's bad in that it creates doubt, but after enough reflection has been processed the doubt is removed and you'll probably understand better than everyone else. So while it's bad, it's also good.

So I'd say if you want to see what your IQ really is, then find a way to solve your depression problem or, more accurately, your spiritual problem because that's what this seems to be. Of course, if I'm wrong and you truly are mentally handicapped, then I apologize, but nothing I've read so far conclusively indicates that and INTPs seem prone to putting themselves down, perhaps due to being marginalized by conventional ways of being and thinking. So I doubt you really are as handicapped as you say.

 

[Xiano]

Well for an example I was in college at a private school where the classes were condensed from your typical 3 month class to a month. So instead of going to class for 1-2 hours. You would sit in lecture for 4 hours have about half an hour - to hour break. Then 4 hours more of lab. Applying what you learned. One example that stands out to me is while I was in a Data Structures class.

The first day was creating your own dynamic array. Even though it was already implemented in the standard library. They just wanted us to re-implement it. Fair enough. There are several things that it needs allocating memory on the heap and deallocating memory on the heap. Whatever size the user wanted and with whatever data the user wanted. To think about every possible situation in which the user can break your program. And another programmer using my code should be able to use all the standard crap by me making it a template and using operator overloading. Fine simple enough.

It was implementing singly linked lists, and eventually doubly linked lists. Where you basically have pointers pointing to pointers n times. So lets say your keeping track of 20 different pointers to areas of memory the user requests to delete the last pointer in the list. Easy enough. But if he wants to say delete the middle node the whole damn thing is going to fall apart.

I struggled with that so much because I was taught how to use pointers not how do pointers work. More importantly what is it used for. And I realized this problem throughout the duration of the program. As much as I wanted too actually understand the underlying concepts of what I was doing. I did not have time for that if you didn't finish it in four hours you were obviously expected to do it for homework and turn it in the next day. I knew there was a chunk of knowledge that I just wasn't privileged too. That if i had that stupid missing link it would all come together beautifully. Either my classmates didn't care about how it worked so they were able to proceed blindly or they were incredibly intelligent. Considering I was running out of time hacking away at these problems. Trying even the most bizarre and nobody could ever think of that; because it was so stupid. Realizing the time was out I often felt the need to surrender for the sake of meeting a deadline. And go ask somebody for help.

So I would go ask somebody for help like one of the lab assistants. I approached them with a very general question of explain the underlying concept here. For some reason that communication was not made clear and they were telling me how to use it. Which I already understood. And they would look at me with this shocked face of "how stupid is this kid?". Then they asked me do you even know what an integer is? Do you know what a pointer is? Yes I know that it contains an address to access the data I need. But that doesn't give me very much information to work with. So they would just say go back and retake a previous class. At times I seriously believed they were dumber then I was and at times they actually were. So I would just go back home and continue hammering at the problem. I would figure it out on my own. However with no sense of how it worked. I made something and don't even know how it worked. Which didn't matter you still got an A on it. I knew that A was a lie.

So I ended up fighting the system more than actually learning which depressed me. I was being put on a conveyor belt assembled and accessed. I could blend in and make them think I was assembled correctly. So I wasn't thrown in the trash to be scrapped. I was pushed forward in the line. I could continue to the end of the conveyor belt and be done. Be awarded a degree. All I would walk away with is facts. Facts that I memorized and regurgitated. I wanted to jump off that conveyor belt so bad I did not want to be the thousandth perfectly assembled replica to be stamped for approval for standard operation in society. At the same time reality existed the reality was going to be $80,000 in debt. And I wouldn't have that stamp of approval that says to the world I know what I'm talking about and you should hire me so I can pay off this debt. My life would be over if I jumped off that conveyor belt. So I was torn and stayed on it. Until the depression knocked me on my ass and I was willing to end that life.

I left but with nothing. Not even nothing I left to go back home with nothing left of me intact. I did not have a passion any more. I did not even have the slightest desire for knowledge. No more desire to better my self. I literally did nothing for 2 years. That's how long it took to have any desire to even take a step forward. To start learning again. Of course I had the help of drugs. I decided not to relearn that BS I was forced to learn in the system. I started to peel the layers of abstraction off and right then and there I understood it all. I realized that jumping off that conveyor belt was the best idea because I would have continued to have filled my head up with useless information. I would not have a single independent thought I would just be regurgitating the same BS over and over. It was also the worst idea to even get on the conveyor belt in the first place. But I was stupid. And I'll literally be paying the price for the rest of my life.

Life demands I grow up and take responsibility. Get a job. But I don't want to get on that conveyor belt again. And maybe the few "resumes" and applications I've filled out either they want that stamp of approval or they know if they put me on another conveyor belt I'll jump off in an instant.

So 1) Too stupid I don't even understand the conveyor belt.
or 2) You will try to explain how the conveyor belt and assembly line actually works. In which I already know what you're going to say and proceed to be annoyed by your lack of intelligence.

However if there's a third alternative and I'm intelligent enough to understand it. That's fun as well.

p.s. thank you for all the replies and I hope I didn't insult any one. to the person who said don't post this on the internet ask a close friend. I actually did ask the close friend. Her response was simply depression which is completely logical but I highly doubt if I was given a happy pill the scores would have to dramatically rise to even reach the average score. The thing is you are not talking about a 5 to 10 point below average you are talking about 50 points below average. We are not talking about small to moderate deficits we're talking about large as in is that even possible. Is there actually any one in there? A few of those areas it means I didn't get a 55% score it means I got nothing right. Not even by random chance did I get lucky and even get one answer correct in those area's.

Also I find it strange that this close friend attempted to describe me as "unique". The friend said I reminded her of someone else she knew. And that I wouldn't be describable. A friend I've known for 8 years can't describe me other than saying "unique". I'm not a fruit, vegetable or meat. I'm not even a food I'm so alien. Terrible metaphor. p.s.s that was a long p.s.

 

[Reluctantly]

Well for an example I was in college at a private school where the classes were condensed from your typical 3 month class to a month. So instead of going to class for 1-2 hours. You would sit in lecture for 4 hours have about half an hour - to hour break. Then 4 hours more of lab. Applying what you learned. One example that stands out to me is while I was in a Data Structures class.

The first day was creating your own dynamic array. Even though it was already implemented in the standard library. They just wanted us to re-implement it. Fair enough. There are several things that it needs allocating memory on the heap and deallocating memory on the heap. Whatever size the user wanted and with whatever data the user wanted. To think about every possible situation in which the user can break your program. And another programmer using my code should be able to use all the standard crap by me making it a template and using operator overloading. Fine simple enough.

It was implementing singly linked lists, and eventually doubly linked lists. Where you basically have pointers pointing to pointers n times. So lets say your keeping track of 20 different pointers to areas of memory the user requests to delete the last pointer in the list. Easy enough. But if he wants to say delete the middle node the whole damn thing is going to fall apart.

I struggled with that so much because I was taught how to use pointers not how do pointers work. More importantly what is it used for. And I realized this problem throughout the duration of the program. As much as I wanted too actually understand the underlying concepts of what I was doing. I did not have time for that if you didn't finish it in four hours you were obviously expected to do it for homework and turn it in the next day. I knew there was a chunk of knowledge that I just wasn't privileged too. That if i had that stupid missing link it would all come together beautifully. Either my classmates didn't care about how it worked so they were able to proceed blindly or they were incredibly intelligent. Considering I was running out of time hacking away at these problems. Trying even the most bizarre and nobody could ever think of that; because it was so stupid. Realizing the time was out I often felt the need to surrender for the sake of meeting a deadline. And go ask somebody for help.

So I would go ask somebody for help like one of the lab assistants. I approached them with a very general question of explain the underlying concept here. For some reason that communication was not made clear and they were telling me how to use it. Which I already understood. And they would look at me with this shocked face of "how stupid is this kid?". Then they asked me do you even know what an integer is? Do you know what a pointer is? Yes I know that it contains an address to access the data I need. But that doesn't give me very much information to work with. So they would just say go back and retake a previous class. At times I seriously believed they were dumber then I was and at times they actually were. So I would just go back home and continue hammering at the problem. I would figure it out on my own. However with no sense of how it worked. I made something and don't even know how it worked. Which didn't matter you still got an A on it. I knew that A was a lie.

Believe it or not, this was a pretty common scenario for me when I went through Computer Science. It usually ends up being easier to find the information you need in order to understand than to try and get someone to understand what you don't get so that they can actually help you. This becomes very typical of the more complex sciences. You should try taking an advanced physics course; every time you have a question about concepts, they tell you nobody knows exactly what's happening, just how it happens. It's very annoying.

So I ended up fighting the system more than actually learning which depressed me. I was being put on a conveyor belt assembled and accessed. I could blend in and make them think I was assembled correctly. So I wasn't thrown in the trash to be scrapped. I was pushed forward in the line. I could continue to the end of the conveyor belt and be done. Be awarded a degree. All I would walk away with is facts. Facts that I memorized and regurgitated. I wanted to jump off that conveyor belt so bad I did not want to be the thousandth perfectly assembled replica to be stamped for approval for standard operation in society. At the same time reality existed the reality was going to be $80,000 in debt. And I wouldn't have that stamp of approval that says to the world I know what I'm talking about and you should hire me so I can pay off this debt. My life would be over if I jumped off that conveyor belt. So I was torn and stayed on it. Until the depression knocked me on my ass and I was willing to end that life.

I left but with nothing. Not even nothing I left to go back home with nothing left of me intact. I did not have a passion any more. I did not even have the slightest desire for knowledge. No more desire to better my self. I literally did nothing for 2 years. That's how long it took to have any desire to even take a step forward. To start learning again. Of course I had the help of drugs. I decided not to relearn that BS I was forced to learn in the system. I started to peel the layers of abstraction off and right then and there I understood it all. I realized that jumping off that conveyor belt was the best idea because I would have continued to have filled my head up with useless information. I would not have a single independent thought I would just be regurgitating the same BS over and over. It was also the worst idea to even get on the conveyor belt in the first place. But I was stupid. And I'll literally be paying the price for the rest of my life.

You're reminding me about what I hated about college. I went in with this idealized version of it being the opposite. For me though, I didn't care about grades and hitting the mark as much as learning, so I tried my best to take it all in and understand; I'd go to the library and sometimes just research and think about what they taught us, so I would have some mental theoretical conceptual map of what I learned. I have multiple Fs just because I'd stop going to classes that focused too much on regurgitating things. And imo, regurgitation is bad because then the student doesn't understand the theory behind what they are learning. But knowing facts is often good enough to apply a science, so that's what colleges seem to focus on. They test your knowledge of the facts. You don't have to let it defeat your desire to learn though; you can do that on your own and help yourself appreciate the facts in the process.

Life demands I grow up and take responsibility. Get a job. But I don't want to get on that conveyor belt again. And maybe the few "resumes" and applications I've filled out either they want that stamp of approval or they know if they put me on another conveyor belt I'll jump off in an instant.

So 1) Too stupid I don't even understand the conveyor belt.
or 2) You will try to explain how the conveyor belt and assembly line actually works. In which I already know what you're going to say and proceed to be annoyed by your lack of intelligence.

However if there's a third alternative and I'm intelligent enough to understand it. That's fun as well.

p.s. thank you for all the replies and I hope I didn't insult any one. to the person who said don't post this on the internet ask a close friend. I actually did ask the close friend. Her response was simply depression which is completely logical but I highly doubt if I was given a happy pill the scores would have to dramatically rise to even reach the average score. The thing is you are not talking about a 5 to 10 point below average you are talking about 50 points below average. We are not talking about small to moderate deficits we're talking about large as in is that even possible. Is there actually any one in there? A few of those areas it means I didn't get a 55% score it means I got nothing right. Not even by random chance did I get lucky and even get one answer correct in those area's.

Also I find it strange that this close friend attempted to describe me as "unique". The friend said I reminded her of someone else she knew. And that I wouldn't be describable. A friend I've known for 8 years can't describe me other than saying "unique". I'm not a fruit, vegetable or meat. I'm not even a food I'm so alien. Terrible metaphor. p.s.s that was a long p.s.

If it makes you feel any better, I have two science degrees and couldn't get hired in my fields, so I joined the Army. I'm underemployed doing this, but at least once I'm done (assuming I don't die or lose any of my important body parts) I get veteran's preference and a much more rounded and nicer resume (which should help a ton in the future). I know this sounds obvious, but if you know anyone that can help you get into work that you think you'd enjoy, that would probably be the best thing you could do to try and resolve your situation. I unfortunately could not.

 

[Xiano]

You're reminding me about what I hated about college. I went in with this idealized version of it being the opposite. For me though, I didn't care about grades and hitting the mark as much as learning, so I tried my best to take it all in and understand; I'd go to the library and sometimes just research and think about what they taught us, so I would have some mental theoretical conceptual map of what I learned. I have multiple Fs just because I'd stop going to classes that focused too much on regurgitating things. And imo, regurgitation is bad because then the student doesn't understand the theory behind what they are learning. But knowing facts is often good enough to apply a science, so that's what colleges seem to focus on. They test your knowledge of the facts. You don't have to let it defeat your desire to learn though; you can do that on your own and help yourself appreciate the facts in the process.

Well that may have been the problem I went into a private college that condensed a 4 year degree into less than 2 years. So there was literally no time for me to put aside time to actually "learn". I had never actually had any background in physics. The very first and last Physics class I failed with a 68. We had about a week until the next set of classes started. Except I would be retaking them. In that I tried to figure out what went wrong and why I was having such a hard time with the class. Especially considering most of the class passed. Literally all I needed to do was memorize the formulas. Hell some of them were on the test it self. So literally all I had to do was memorize and then plug-in the values into the equation. I was so confused. Why did I spend $2500 dollars on a class that I can get the exact same information in a second from a google search.

My idea of coming to that school was not to make good grades it was to learn. All of peers seemed to have a different mindset. Go to school and get through it as fast as possible. Don't care about what I learn as long as I graduate. Was there mentality. And I was a little disturbed by that. I was more disturbed that I found my self in that same situation. My brilliant idea was to memorize everything in that week. No problem. Then for the rest of that month I could dive deeper. I took the practice tests that I had done previously. And said I need more problems. So I made a simple program to randomly generate me questions and then check if my answers we're correct. I start back at classes and he hands out the same programming projects. I was like perfect now I can dive deeper into understanding this.

There was three assignments given right off the bat and I easily completed them overnight. The next class we go to turn them in. The teacher went around to check if everyone's simulations was working correctly. He stopped at me and I had a big smile on my face because I knew it was perfect. Then he says you cheated. I quickly sank and asked "What does that mean?" he said "You cheated. Zero on all of them". (he had a heavy accent). I tried too get him to explain to me how was it even possible I cheated. He ignored me. And proceeded to start the lecture. I was boiling sinking further into my chair. I wanted to leave but kept my cool as much as possible. I didn't want to create a scene or disturb my new found classmates that I had never interacted with. After an hour and half the first 10 minute break came around and I left.

I was probably not suppose to be driving. Let's just say I didn't return to class at all. Honestly I went into a state of rage and hatred I felt like I was back in the 9th grade. After a few days of cooling off. I tried to reason with him and ask him how we could remedy the issue. He said there's nothing to resolve you got caught cheating. And you have missed 8 hours of class. I knew that there was no reasoning with this guy. And he wanted to make it clear that was the case. So I try to get a hold of his boss or the programs chair. Any body that could help me. And got nothing back. No phone call, no e-mail. Going to their offices only to be told their not here. That was the point I just gave up where I was tired of fighting the system. My mom of course called about a week later to see how I was doing. I told her and that I was done. Bad idea. She was infuriated and was going to resolve the issue herself no amount of pleading could change her mind. A week later I get a call from both mom and the department's chair. Who said simply that you can retake the course free of charge next month. Which wasn't the point at all. I did not desire to continue because of the money or else I would have never gone to the school. I simply did not care how the program was ran. How the teachers and most of all the lab assistants (in which you could ask anybody) were assholes.

The faculty in general did not seem to give a damn but taking your money. It was definitely an entirely different environment than I had expected. At the same time I felt it was a responsibility to continue. Especially knowing what my mother had to go through to get somebody even on the fucking phone. I told my self I was gonna do my self a favor and not speak to any one. I was definitely depressed. Oblivious to it. In fact I did not even know I was depressed until after I had come back home for a while and had a good friend of mine tell me that and repeatedly encouraging me to at least see a therapist. It took me a while to actually do that.

What's funny though is that on that third month it was the last lab assignment. I had not spoken to any one. But to get credit for it I did have to go up to the teacher and say "Can you take a look at this and see if I did it correctly?". He looked at it for a second. And said "You cheated again!". I did not know if I wanted to burst into laughter or go bat shit crazy on this dude. I did neither and said hold on a minute. Got my laptop and pulled up the previous two months assignments of the same thing. And asked him what differences do you see? *It was exactly the same because well it was exactly the same assignment* however you could tell at a glance they were different just on the formating and white space, the file creation dates ,etc. Then he was like ok ok your good. Thank god he actually used logic that time. Or maybe the proof was self-evident.

Either way I was more disgusted with the school than ever. I could tell something was severely wrong. I would just randomly go from calm to angry. I was questioning every thing I had ever done. I was questioning why I was even there. How could I be so stupid to think any of this was ever a good idea. I did not talk to any body. I left my girlfriend without a word. I wasn't eating healthy at all. It wasn't until about 4-5 months later that instead of randomly going from calm to angry. Without my consent my eyes would open the floodgates. It was disturbing because I couldn't remember the last time I actually had ever cried. It made me angry and confused because no matter how hard I tried the flood gates would open uncontrollably.

I was not even religious but I looked up and would ask god to NOT allow this to continue happening lol. I seriously could not control it. I could feel it coming every time and I would try so hard to prevent it from happening. Though it seemed the harder I tried to prevent it the faster it happened. After a couple months I started to give up on trying to control it. I felt pathetic. Useless. And wondered wtf happened to me. I mean really like I was small child curling up until a little ball with tears flooding down the face and snot bubbles forming from my nose. I lost all of my dignity. And would often spend days sleeping. Just because at least while asleep I didn't have to be an emotional wreck. It wasn't long after that suicide dominated my thoughts. Thankfully one night certain things occurred and decided it would be best to return home in hopes of getting better before I did anything more stupid.

However going home didn't help at all. You would think I had hit rock bottom by this point no it wasn't until a couple months after coming back home where I really did just hit rock bottom. And I stayed like that for two fucking years. I didn't do anything. There was often threats of being kicked out. I think i was hoping for that. So when they brought up the threats I would simply say Please do. I thought that if I had become homeless that suicide would no longer be a thought it would be real. Because at least having shelter had enough worth to merit a small amount of hope. If I could just get rid of it! I think on some level they knew that and I would probably not survive long. Obviously I did not think that at the time. It was however very apparent that I was just a leech sucking the life out of every body.

I'm sure that's a bit too much information and nobody cares. But I would say those 2 years taught me something. That is to quickly identify depression and keep it at bay. And that was working out really great for a while I was really moving forward in life. Then I was struck by a completely new illness not related to the mind but a physical illness.

That was six months ago. I would say that the lessons from facing depression before helped me a lot. However it strikes me several times a day. That's without doing anything. Because if I do anything it handicaps me further. I cannot go outside, I cannot excert any energy, I cannot even laugh without associating an immense amount of discomfort. And I do not say pain because I know what true physical pain feels like. It physically handicaps you. I am back to being chained and jailed inside four walls. Not because I was struck by a mental illness but a physical illness. At times it feels like a cosmic joke. Like okay you defeated that illness somehow now we'll strike you with this illness. After seeing many doctors over the past 6 months it has become apparent they don't know what they're dealing with or how to treat it. The last doctor I've seen is at least honest with me and says. These types of things are really tricky to diagnose and treat. But we can try this medication at this dose for X amount of time.

He said it would take about 2 weeks to see improvement. He put me on a steroid called Prednisone at a lower dosage than previously. At 5mg one time a day. However instead of just one week of treatment it'll be 6-8 weeks of treatment. However I did ask him this is going to be a life long treatment and he said yes when we get it under control you can come off of it. Then if the problem arises again we'll treat it again and it will just be a life-long treatment. It's been 20 days (yes I've been counting) I haven't seen any improvement. I had a lil hope for a second there. But it seems like this is just another failed attempt. What's even more strange is I respond to medicine really well. With this no matter the steroids and histamine blockers, etc they give me nothing calms it down. However they did give me a fairly strong dosage via a shot that released over a week period. For one day it actually did help it a good bit. The next day though it came back like it was nothing.

I can definitely tell these last few weeks I'm starting to become weaker. I can honestly feel the mild depression building up I'm not fighting it it off. I'm just letting it run it's course. I mean I can fight but that would just be to survive. I mean it's possible in a couple years I will defeat it. But I just got out of a long battle to survive. I was granted a good 6 months of peace I guess that's good. But I know I've said it before I'm tired of fighting. Those 6 months of peace I was given was great. But to go through this again for a year at best, a couple of years, that is assuming that one day it magically disappears or some cure is discovered haha.

Eh I don't want to go through that again it's not worth it. Not even religious but it may be worth a try to pray to something lol. I don't think I'm intelligent enough to figure this one out. Especially when the professionals have no clue what to do.

Heh. Talk about another TMI and TLDR post. Funny how when you don't have much concern for yourself. You still care for others even complete strangers. Humbles you. Makes you value life more. Value your time. 23 years of life on this earth. I'm pretty satisfied with that. Granted I would like to do more before I die. But I'm content with what I've already been given. A lot of bad hand's dealt but a lot of good things as well I think. Definitely know that if I was given a second chance I would fully take advantage of it. Make it really mean something. But TLDR

 

[Anktark]

It seems like you are that proverbial fish trying to climb a tree.

As for a second chance, you are still alive and have already found a way to learn that doesn't work for you. I assume you got into Computer science because it interests you. Good news- there is plenty of material online to learn programming language(s), frameworks and concepts. Once you have some experience and several projects under your belt and still have a desire to adhere to a schedule/deadlines and have a boss, you can apply to a company.

If you are more interested in the hardware part of the computer science then I guess learn to code first anyways and then buy the equipment and make a small lab at home. Once you get good enough, create a small robot army to do work for you, earn enough money to buy that private school/college you attended and go there and personally fire every asshole you met there. That ought to help with your depression a bit.

 

[Grayman]

Summary:
Depression stemming from a feeling of inadequacy, that inadequacy being intelligence. You feel inadequate therefor less valuable. Life has less meaning and purpose as others continue to deny your value in the process of school work or life. Even when you succeed others continue to believe you failed somehow or feel you cheated or didn’t follow the proper procedures. You failed to walk the same straight line as everyone else.


“So I would go ask somebody for help like one of the lab assistants. I approached them with a very general question of explain the underlying concept here. For some reason that communication was not made clear and they were telling me how to use it. Which I already understood. And they would look at me with this shocked face of "how stupid is this kid?". Then they asked me do you even know what an integer is? Do you know what a pointer is? Yes I know that it contains an address to access the data I need. But that doesn't give me very much information to work with.”
I have experienced this before. Some people still see this in me but I have gotten better on thinking on their level. Essentially you view the world with complexity. You don’t value simple things, disconnected concepts, or symbolic nonsense. You understand by viewing how a thing fully relates and interacts with the environment, not contingent on time or place. Even greater understanding exists in finding all the uses for an object or function that have yet to be realized. While they ‘feel’ they understand because they can simply know the main function of the thing, you only ‘feel’ you understand when you have achieved the impossible and that is in seeing every possible function of the thing, every use and every interaction. Understanding of this nature is only ever adequate but never complete. Your understanding allows for anticipation of new results without past practice to support it and creativity while theirs only allows for repeating known rules and procedures to achieve the expected results based on past practice. Your understanding allows for you to use a tool beyond it’s intended purpose while they are restricted and can only function within that box. Your understanding takes time to cultivate and grow while there's is obtain quickly and with less thought.

Your issues with memorization:
The mind filters data and does not allow us to remember everything but this is not a problem with intelligence. It is simply a function of the brain. If you are like me, you memorize based on understanding data. Baseless rote memorization of images and vocals have no context, no background, no function to define it by. It does not necessitate understanding. It floats on it’s own and relates to nothing and feels foreign. I simply cannot grasp onto it and retain it. If floats away from me detached from any real base concept. I can remember things well. I simply need to understand what it is. IQ tests are more based on rote memorization and on your ability to remember random variables, images and words, than actual useful things that your mind can value and feel a need to maintain in the greater webbing concept residing in your mind that helps you define reality.

You do not lack intelligence. You lack the ability to adapt your work practice and your questions to the simpler needs of those around you. Likely you failed to adapt because you always felt it was you that was completely inadequate instead of realizing that they where the ones who were inadequate in understanding you, just as that girl fails to understand you.
Let me know if I am way off here...

 

[Xiano]

If you are more interested in the hardware part of the computer science then I guess learn to code first anyways and then buy the equipment and make a small lab at home. Once you get good enough, create a small robot army to do work for you, earn enough money to buy that private school/college you attended and go there and personally fire every asshole you met there. That ought to help with your depression a bit.

Yes I did start with the language C and it begged more questions to be answered. I started to learn a little of assembly but that only added more questions. I researched a bit about how operating systems worked. Then I NEEDED to know how the actual physical architecture worked. The processor. I started learning about logic gates AND gates, OR gates, NOT gates, NAND gates, etc. Basically boolean algebra. Then I felt the need to build my own processor. Then realized I'm broke and can't afford the physical hardware to do it. I realized I had dug a little too deep once I wanted to start learning how the electrical "signals" worked as they crossed the copper wires. I had wanted to share my discoveries. I was shot down pretty fast. I thought the very little I had learned about what happens underneath was invaluable to my understanding a modern high level language. I had seen this phenomenon and was trying to explain it but couldn't. So I wanted to see if anybody else observed it by a google search and the first hit I got was Wirth's Law. When I brought that up... It was unanimous I was an idiot. Then I started to get the questions like what is the sizeof char or sizeof char[2]. I felt like I was back at college. Except this time I could for the most part intelligently answer them and fire a shot back. Then I realized I was dealing with trolls.

I wasn't suggesting build your own processor, build an assembler, then an operating system. No just understanding the basics of what the code you write how does a machine interpret that. Again basic. Can probably be taught in a single course.

To your second point it's actually funny because a lot of my daydreaming has involved that type of thinking. In various forms. It can kinda get annoying though because I will completely leave the world into my own fictional world. Each time coming back to expand on it. A bit weird I guess.

However since I can't build my own processor and I know the basics. I imagine a modern CPU. Since I don't have an actual microscope to look into the inner working. I imagine what it would look like and how it would function. Hot damn it's beautiful. It's like a city if you were to view it from an aerial view and recorded it. Then played it back in fast forward mode. It looks a bit chaotic and dangerous. But since it's your imagination you can slow it down and look at it from any angle you choose. It's not so chaotic. Then you resume it in fast forward and it's no longer chaos. It's a beautifully orchestrated set of events going at the speed of light. However the smallest error and it could completely fall apart and that error can happen in a blink of an eye.

 

[Xiano]

Let me know if I am way off here...

Well I could nitpick at some details. And ask you for example how do you define complexity? With that aside I would say it's an accurate summary. Hmm for once I don't have much else to say.

Well I would comment on your remark to "thinking on their level". I have noticed most people don't give a crap with what I have to say. Until shit hits the fan. And then I'm like "I told you so". Then they are all ears. With confidence I think I have broken it down simple enough for someone to understand and logically beautiful. I think I've created a masterpiece. Then the next day they completely forget we even had that conversation. I have to calm people from their panic and then explain it again. This failed because of X this is how I'm going to fix it for you and how you can prevent it from happening again and if it does fail again I have provided you with the knowledge to fix it for your self. Maybe a couple weeks or more go by and people start panicking and emotionally I don't even know they burst into anger. At this point I realize I'm just the person that fixes people's shit. Calming them down over and over again. I feel like the sane person at times. Which is scary considering how screwed up I am.

It's not logically possible to become more insane then I am. But apparently logic is not bullet proof. In fact it shoot's itself. Other than that people don't value me no. Which is fine. But the plague of physical illness brings me to my knees. It took me an hour today to pump my tires. Because within 15 minutes my entire body was breaking out in hives with an intolerable level of torture. I needed to be at the doctors office in an hour. So I jumped into the shower putting on at the coldest you can get. I'm not sure at which point your body is suppose to go in shock but the ice shards felt nice. To the point of being dizzy and I can feel my heart not even working right. It was like out of rhythm. *boom...boomboom...boom...boomboom* my brain didn't know if it was suppose to be sending burning sensations to my body or hypothermia. I guess the two balanced each other. I just laughed.

No I'm not a hypochondriac however when I was suffering from panic attacks due to my GAD on a daily basis and didn't fully understand how anxiety worked. That it could cause a wide range of physical symptoms with no actual medical condition. Yea I would say back then I was a bit of a hypochondriac however I'm pretty sure that's the very nature of severe anxiety. Like if my resting HR is 120bpm for a week straight is their something wrong or am I just stressed? Probably a combination of both.

edit: well the doctors office never cared to call me back. I called them back today. They wanted to send me back to the previous doctor I was seeing. Who had referred me to him because he had run out of options aka couldn't figure out what was wrong. Then now this doctor after spending $200 in office visits. Can't figure it out and wants to send me back to the doctor who couldn't figure it out. Is their a damn doctor on the planet who knows what their doing? Is that all a doctor is good for is throwing medication at you blindfolded? Disappointing. They seem to have all jumped on the conveyor belt. Incapable of thinking on their own.

 

[ana]

tests tests tests
they iq tested me in eigth grade, and i averaged 123.
however, they noted a severe pyschological disturbance because i wrote a story about murder.
however, i dont consider myself to be all that intelligent. there are many who i am dumb in comparision too. as well as im the most socially retarded person on the planet. im offensive and rude, and yet i dont care.
my point is, tests dont mean anything, if it says your dumb, it doesnt have to be right
especially with major depression. i have the same diagnosis, and when i get bad i get quite stupid. like full out, just retarded
*srhugs* it comes and it goes, but it doesnt really matter