Yet another; "INTP or INTJ"

[kuja]

Hello. As you can see I'm new here... I don't usually post on forums, I prefer to just read and observe but anyways...as many others, I'm having a hard time figuring out weather I'm a INTJ or INTP. I have read pretty much every J vs P sites/threads I could find but I always seem to relate equally to both. So I will try to provide some information so you can possibly help me out here.

I always test as an INTJ, and therefore thougt I was one for a long time, but starting having my doubts after visiting the INTJ forum It seemed like most of them disliked people in general, and that they felt they were intelligently superior to everyone, and I definitely don't feel that way even though I am smarter than average. Generalizing here, but I read alot of posts like that. I also read that many INTPs often test as INTJ which made me even more unsure...

I am quite organized, I plan alot. Most things I do is actually planned. I am not especially tidy, but I don't let it get too messy, it annoys me. I get decent grades, I usually do well on tests because I'm prepared for them, but don't do too good in day to day school work because it's simply too boring.

I get along well with most people, and if I don't I will hide it. I am often inside my head and I daydream alot. If I'm not occupied with something or someone, I'll buzz off to a fantasy world. I find that I can be quite talkative when I'm with a few close friends, but when we're more than 5 I become very quiet. Especially if one of them is a load extrovert, I just go into observing mode then. I think that might be common for both INTP and INTJ though

I experience my emotions in huge bursts that are overwhelming and often depressing. Those emotions are always negative it seems. Inside my head I am very good at sharing feelings, but in reality I'm not. Some kinda desire for feelings it seems, which I believe I have read is an INTP trait.

Things that describe me well from an INTJ description are:

"INTJs are natural leaders, although they usually choose to remain in the background until they see a real need to take over the lead. When they are in leadership roles, they are quite effective, because they are able to objectively see the reality of a situation, and are adaptable enough to change things which aren't working well." - spot on.

I am sometimes too quick to express judgments.

It's not uncommon that I am misunderstood and that I have to explain myself twice.

Always objective, and usually very open minded.

Can be very sarcastic, too much for some people at times.

Very satisfied when I am finished with a project. I like to finish things

Well organised, dependable and reliable.

I won’t do something if I feel I can’t do it well.

Perfectionist.

Familiar with darkside.

Tends not to value organized religion.

Very rarely show anger, extremely patient that way. Except with my mother but she's an ISFJ so that should be understandable


Things that describe me well from an INTP description are:

Live inside their own mind.

"The INTP is likely to be very shy when it comes to meeting new people. On the other hand, the INTP is very self-confident and gregarious around people they know well, or when discussing theories which they fully understand."

"For the INTP, it is extremely important that ideas and facts are expressed correctly "

"Richly imaginative and creative"

When talking with somebody, I sometimes experience that while I am talking I come up with a better way of putting it and therefore interrupt myself and start over again, which can lead to a misunderstanding or that they loose focus. I get kinda annoyed at myself for doing it afterwards.

" Introverted feeling is love, affection, morality etc. It is important for an INTp to be involved with someone, to have an object of affection, to like people." - I can definitely relate to this.

When out with people, I am usually the person who laughs the most. I can find something humorous about most things. My sense of humour is also very "wide".

Well... I think that was enough boredom for you poor readers

It might be pretty obvious to some of you which type I am, hopefully

I'm not a native English speaker so my English might look abit simplyfied unfortunately.

If something is unclear, do ask. And if you have questions that might make it easier to tell which type I am, then fire away.

/kuja

 

[Auburn]

Hello. As you can see I'm new here... I don't usually post on forums, I prefer to just read and observe but anyways...as many others, I'm having a hard time figuring out weather I'm a INTJ or INTP. I have read pretty much every J vs P sites/threads I could find but I always seem to relate equally to both. So I will try to provide some information so you can possibly help me out here.

Welcome Kuja! I'll try my best to help you with this although I can't promise my observations are very accurate. From all that you've said, I do belive you're INTP - just an INTP who doesn't possess all the "weaknesses" that come with being Perceiving. I'm only going to point out those things you've said that I belive support being INTP. Hopefully someone else will take the other stand and point out the INTJ possibility? Here goes:

The very fact that you are so indecisive as to whether you are INTP or INTJ strongly hints at a P type personality. Also, even after so much research you still remain open-minded to the possibility of being either one.

When talking with somebody, I sometimes experience that while I am talking I come up with a better way of putting it and therefore interrupt myself and start over again, which can lead to a misunderstanding or that they loose focus. I get kinda annoyed at myself for doing it afterwards.

I believe this is a P trait. I do this too - even with my posts online and especially with stories. There always seems to be a better way of saying something that I just haven't though about yet.

I am quite organized, I plan alot. Most things I do is actually planned. I am not especially tidy, but I don't let it get too messy, it annoys me. I get decent grades, I usually do well on tests because I'm prepared for them, but don't do too good in day to day school work because it's simply too boring.

Indecisiveness and open-mindedness are both P trait, however laziness is not necessarily a P trait, but a personal choice. True, it is more typical for a P types to be lazy and disorderly, but I don't believe this is necessarily a P trait. An INTP can be very organized with those things that he esteems as important - but will hate organization if imposed on them by authority or 'rules' alone.

I experience my emotions in huge bursts that are overwhelming and often depressing. Those emotions are always negative it seems. Inside my head I am very good at sharing feelings, but in reality I'm not. Some kinda desire for feelings it seems, which I believe I have read is an INTP trait.

This I'm not entirely sure of either, but I believe burst of emotion are not an INTJ trait but an INTP trait. INTJs develop Fi which is never very spontaneous or outspoken but more private. When they get emotionally hurt they keep it mulling inside themselves. There's a thread here on the INTP's Fe that may help you identify whether the INTP's emotions describe you. The emotions of an INTP tend to be very childish, raw and spazzy.

"The INTP is likely to be very shy when it comes to meeting new people. On the other hand, the INTP is very self-confident and gregarious around people they know well, or when discussing theories which they fully understand." "For the INTP, it is extremely important that ideas and facts are expressed correctly "

This fear of sharing inadequate information is something many of us here can relate to. Ask Nia, or Lor.

I'm not a native English speaker so my English might look abit simplyfied unfortunately.

If something is unclear, do ask. And if you have questions that might make it easier to tell which type I am, then fire away.

Just hearing you say that makes me think you're "P".

I hope this helps. Again this is all one-sided. There are many qualities you have which are typically J, but none that can't be acquired as an INTP also (my opinion). And if you really are an INTP, you've got it pretty good! I wish I was a perceiver with that much drive!

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Familiar with darkside.

How familiar?

 

[flow]

I think you're an INTJ fo shoooo. INTPs tend to enjoy starting things, while INTJs enjoy the finishing part. And being as organized as you seem to be, that's just unlike most of us P types.

 

[kuja]

Thanx for the response all. You have some very good points Auburn.

I can indeed be quite indecisive, and I am often second guessing myself, when I know there is no need, I often get very annoyed at myself for doing this.

" An INTP can be very organized with those things that he esteems as important - but will hate organization if imposed on them by authority or 'rules' alone." - Very true.

Well, basically everything you have said fits me well.

@ Cognisant; hehe...Well, I'm not exsactly pure evil...

@ Flow; that is true, perhaps I'm just a weird INTp

 

[Dissident]

@ Flow; that is true, perhaps I'm just a weird INTp

you wrote the P as lowercase, is that a typo or did you read Socionics descriptions? if so, thats where the confusion comes from, Socionics have the p/j axis switched respect MBTI

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to the forum, I hope you stick around after figuring out the type dilemma

 

[kuja]

you wrote the P as lowercase, is that a typo or did you read Socionics descriptions? if so, thats where the confusion comes from, Socionics have the p/j axis switched respect MBTI

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to the forum, I hope you stick around after figuring out the type dilemma

Thanx, I wrote lowercase P because, if I am in fact an INTP, My P / J ratio will still be very even, so it's kinda a weak P. I have read the socionics description though, and I did actually know that it was switched, but hmm...Now I'm slightly confused again;
"INTps are also trying to balance this cone on its head when it comes to introverted feeling (). Introverted feeling is love, affection, morality etc. It is important for an INTp to be involved with someone, to have an object of affection, to like people. If this doesn't concern you, you are probably a type other than INTp." - So it this really an INTJ then? or maybe I have misunderstood.

 

[Auburn]

Introverted Feeling (Fi) is having a harmonious internal value system. It has to do with integrity and doing that you 'know' is right. It's a sort of 'conscience'. It will often sink it's heels into the ground when a value is violated.

Extraverted Feeling (Fe) is more openly affectionate, empathetic, and nurturing. Fe seeks to harmonize the external world of people; making a great hostess to a dinner party or social event.



From these statements you made, I lean slightly more to believing it's Fe, although these qualities could possibly be seen in both.

"It's important... to be involved with someone, to have an object of affection, to like people." - I can definitely relate to this.

"When out with people, I am usually the person who laughs the most. I can find something humorous about most things. My sense of humour is also very "wide".

I'm not the best judge of feelings, and you know yourself better than I do, but I hope this helps give you a direction.


EDT: what Jesin said

 

[Jesin]

Don't bother with Socionics.

And please, don't write INTP in the MBTI sense as INTp because the P is "weak". That's not how the MBTI works.

 

[kuja]

Don't bother with Socionics.

And please, don't write INTP in the MBTI sense as INTp because the P is "weak". That's not how the MBTI works.

Noted.

And thank you for your help Auburn, I'm quite certain I'm an INTP now.

 

[severus]

Welcome Kuja, and nice to see that you have found your type. Many adventures await you here. It's said to be addicting...

 

[Titania]

This place really is addicting. You'll lost your ability to sleep and you'll bite all your fingernails while writing posts (I'd like to get rid of that habit...). But it's worth it

Like Auburn said, the fact that you're still second-guessing your type tells that you are INTP. I wasn't sure about my type either, but luckily I found this place where I could see what the real INTPs like, when all the descriptions couldn't take me further.
And don't worry about your English, mine is worse and they haven't pointed out any of my mistakes yet ... So, Welcome!

and by the way... Kuja means alley in Finnish...

 

[kuja]

Welcome Kuja, and nice to see that you have found your type. Many adventures await you here. It's said to be addicting...

Thank you, all though I have realised that I have been mixing socionics and MBTI quite abit So now I'm all confused again. It seems my socionics type is INTP, which would make my MBTI type INTJ? That is only based on what I have read on the internet, so don't shoot me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jesin]

It seems my socionics type is INTP, which would make my MBTI type INTJ?

No, it wouldn't. Socionics INTp is neither MBTI INTJ nor MBTI INTP. It's just Socionics INTp.

When I said "Don't bother with Socionics", I meant you should probably just ignore it to avoid getting mixed up.

If you've really gotten MBTI and Socionics that badly mixed up, you might be better off junking most of what you've heard about them and learning about the MBTI from scratch. And don't mix them up. If you don't look at the MBTI and Socionics as two separate systems, you'll just end up confused.

 

[fullerene]

hehe I did the same thing, actually. There's some debate, I think, of whether or not there's a total j/p switch between the two. The idea behind it is that the two dominant functions of the INTj are the two dominant functions of the INTP (the Ti-Ne), because the j/p in socionics have a different meaning than the J/P in MBTI (socionics identifies judging/perceiving by the lead function, while MBTI identifies which function is extroverted. Since we're introverts, with a lead judging, extroverted perceiving, one would expect a switch in the last letter.

The reason I don't think it's entirely correct, however, is because of the tertiary/inferior functions. The INTj of socionics has functions Ti, Ne, Fi, Se. The INTp of socionics has Ni, Te, Si, Fe. An INTP in MBTI has Ti, Ne, Si, Fe. See the switch? Neither one's conscious functions match up perfectly, so I don't expect there to be a perfect identity between INTPs and INTjs. Since the dominant two functions are... well... dominant... most INTPs are INTjs... but I think the switch in weaker functions may make some INTPs identify better with INTp's, depending on the relative strengths of their functions.

 

[kuja]

This place really is addicting. You'll lost your ability to sleep and you'll bite all your fingernails while writing posts (I'd like to get rid of that habit...). But it's worth it

Heh, yea...I've noticed

Like Auburn said, the fact that you're still second-guessing your type tells that you are INTP. I wasn't sure about my type either, but luckily I found this place where I could see what the real INTPs like, when all the descriptions couldn't take me further.

Yea...but ironicly I'm still not convinced. It might be clearer when I'm abit older...

And don't worry about your English, mine is worse and they haven't pointed out any of my mistakes yet ... So, Welcome!

No wonder, your English seems fine, and thanx.

and by the way... Kuja means alley in Finnish...

Ah hehe I won't even tell you where I got this name...

 

[Jesin]

I'm still not convinced.

Good, neither am I. The "second-guessing" thing is a particularly weak piece of evidence.

 

[kuja]

No, it wouldn't. Socionics INTp is neither MBTI INTJ nor MBTI INTP. It's just Socionics INTp.

When I said "Don't bother with Socionics", I meant you should probably just ignore it to avoid getting mixed up.

Heh...I actually considered writing a comment to you regarding this.

If you've really gotten MBTI and Socionics that badly mixed up, you might be better off junking most of what you've heard about them and learning about the MBTI from scratch. And don't mix them up. If you don't look at the MBTI and Socionics as two separate systems, you'll just end up confused.

You know...I think I might just do that, ty.

 

[Dissident]

Hehe, my intuition didnt fail this time.
I agree with Jesin, you should stick to one of them, they seem similar but they are quite different. Grossly, yes, INTj would be INTP, since the functions are Ti - Ne, but when you read the descriptions you notice that something is not right (not that Socionics is WRONG, just that it never fits exactly with MBTI).
Just make sure the tests you do and the descriptions you read are always for MBTI, or just go through this forum and you will find out soon enough, if you are INTJ we will drive you nuts

 

[loveofreason]

Hi Kuja, welcome to the forum.