Wrangling My Rabid Monkey Mind Into Submission

[WantonNoodle]

The start of my conscious effort to improve myself was approximately 7 years ago. I have made some progress, but I desire much more.

A consistent problem I have had during this time is impulse control. For example, eliminating all sugar for 30 days to see what happens. I have attempted this on a solid 200 separate occasions. The pattern goes like this:

First I decide to not eat sugar. Then I tell myself in short order to fuck off and proceed to eat the sugar because I want to. This confuses me, because I was sure it was me who wanted to not eat the sugar in the first place. The longest I ever made it was 2.5 days.
​

I have run this pattern with many substances, including various foods, tobacco, weed, etc.

I have tried:

- Simply making the decision and vowing to stick to it no matter what (this has been a ridiculous failure more times than I can count)
- Visualizing my goals as clearly and vividly as possible. This may have failed because the vision fades and I fail to refresh it.
- Gaining leverage on myself. Telling my friends I will give them money if they catch me with one more energy drink (I became a closet monster drinker)
​

My lack of impulse control makes it impossible to install beneficial habits or get rid of those I don't want. This is the only thing standing in my way. After 7 years, I am slightly frustrated.

Am I not in control? How can I not just choose an action and take it at will? Mind controls body. What controls mind? Perhaps there are feelings or emotions at work that I am not aware of. Thoughts?

 

[Mello]

The start of my conscious effort to improve myself was approximately 7 years ago. I have made some progress, but I desire much more.

A consistent problem I have had during this time is impulse control. For example, eliminating all sugar for 30 days to see what happens. I have attempted this on a solid 200 separate occasions. The pattern goes like this:

First I decide to not eat sugar. Then I tell myself in short order to fuck off and proceed to eat the sugar because I want to. This confuses me, because I was sure it was me who wanted to not eat the sugar in the first place. The longest I ever made it was 2.5 days.
​

I have run this pattern with many substances, including various foods, tobacco, weed, etc.

I have tried:

- Simply making the decision and vowing to stick to it no matter what (this has been a ridiculous failure more times than I can count)
- Visualizing my goals as clearly and vividly as possible. This may have failed because the vision fades and I fail to refresh it.
- Gaining leverage on myself. Telling my friends I will give them money if they catch me with one more energy drink (I became a closet monster drinker)
​

My lack of impulse control makes it impossible to install beneficial habits or get rid of those I don't want. This is the only thing standing in my way. After 7 years, I am slightly frustrated.

Am I not in control? How can I not just choose an action and take it at will? Mind controls body. What controls mind? Perhaps there are feelings or emotions at work that I am not aware of. Thoughts?

Throw away all food that contains sugar?

Distance yourself from it gradually.

Replace the addiction with something else. Gum? Sugar free. It kills off hunger.

Drugs? Marijuana? — It'll make you want to eat though, but eat something healthier?

Begin exercising. Walking. Jogging. Jump-roping. Biking. etc. It'll keep you healthy and calm.

 

[WantonNoodle]

These are all excellent suggestions. I continue to try to apply them to this day, but I follow the same pattern.

No sugar in the house? Nothing a quick trip to the store can't fix. Weed? It's fantastic, but it creates its own problems. Ive weened my self. Ive gone cold turkey. Ive replaced alcohol with weed, weed with tobacco, tobacco with gum, gum with food, food with energy drinks, tobacco, and weed. I've exercised up to a month at a time, then I skip a day and it's all over.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Can monkeys get rabies? This seems like something important.

As to your problem, I don't really have any advice for you seeing as I'm constantly having the same problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies_in_animals#Monkeys It turns out, yes, yes they can.

 

[WantonNoodle]

Cheeseumpuffs, you make such a mess.

Have you tried the solutions presented here?

 

[BigApplePi]

A consistent problem I have had during this time is impulse control. For example, eliminating all sugar for 30 days to see what happens. I have attempted this on a solid 200 separate occasions. The pattern goes like this:

First I decide to not eat sugar. Then I tell myself in short order to fuck off and proceed to eat the sugar because I want to. This confuses me, because I was sure it was me who wanted to not eat the sugar in the first place. The longest I ever made it was 2.5 days.
​

I have run this pattern with many substances, including various foods, tobacco, weed, etc.

I have tried:

- Simply making the decision and vowing to stick to it no matter what (this has been a ridiculous failure more times than I can count)
- Visualizing my goals as clearly and vividly as possible. This may have failed because the vision fades and I fail to refresh it.
- Gaining leverage on myself. Telling my friends I will give them money if they catch me with one more energy drink (I became a closet monster drinker)
​

My lack of impulse control makes it impossible to install beneficial habits or get rid of those I don't want. This is the only thing standing in my way. After 7 years, I am slightly frustrated.

Am I not in control? How can I not just choose an action and take it at will? Mind controls body. What controls mind? Perhaps there are feelings or emotions at work that I am not aware of. Thoughts?

Here is my solution: First the problem. What's wrong with eating sugar? Are you succumbing to rumors about that? My info is it's refined sugar that's not desirable. That's because it's MT calories for one thing. My solution is to take natural sugar. Fruit juices. Apple juice. I even mix apple juice half and half with cold water and keep a gallon in the frig. (I've run out just now).

There is more to this thing than just that, but this is a start. Next step would be to Google complex carbohydrates. See what you think. Then report back here if you want more feedback.

 

[WantonNoodle]

Thanks for the quick reply.

The sugar thing was just an experiment. I devoured information on it, some of it conflicting, then decided to see if there were any benefits to eliminating it from my diet.

The main issue is my lack of willpower, self control, motivation, determination, etc. There are many other areas of life where these things would be useful.

 

[Mello]

Try talking to more people — online and offline.

 

[Peripheral Visionary]

First I decide to not eat sugar. Then I tell myself in short order to fuck off and proceed to eat the sugar because I want to. This confuses me, because I was sure it was me who wanted to not eat the sugar in the first place. The longest I ever made it was 2.5 days.
I have run this pattern with many substances, including various foods, tobacco, weed, etc.

Do you actually crave sugar? If so, then the problem might be that other carbohydrates you are consuming are driving your blood sugar up. Cravings are a form of stress, and when stressed we tend to automatically engage in coping behaviors, which for most people means reaching for the cookie jar.

Although weed isn't physically addictive like tobacco, it is much more effective as a stress reliever, IMHO. You can become habituated to reaching for both or either when you get uptight.

Habitual behavior is unconcious behavior. It is a part of the human automatic pilot system. You can often WILL yourself not to do something, and then as soon as your attention wavers you'll be doing it. It's like leaving the cockpit of the plane and letting the automatic pilot take over, except you haven't told the autopilot to stay on your present course. Pretty soon you're sucking down that cigarette/cookie/joint even while your concious mind is telling yourself that this isn't what you had in mind.

So, the problem is you need to give new instructions to the automatic pilot. How do you do that? Hypnosis, substitute behaviors, and stress management are all proven methods.

But first try willpower again. Tell yourself you aren't going to give in to the thing you want to avoid. If you find yourself reaching for it--stop. Resist it for 30 minutes. After 30 minutes, see if you can resist another 30. Hold out for as long as possible. If you fail, it is okay, the important thing is you resisted as long as possible. This treatment has been used on OCD patients, and brain scans show that continuous, repeated efforts to resist compulsive behavior does alter brain patterns over the long term.

 

[WantonNoodle]

Good advice for life in general. Though I'm not sure how that would help here. I'd say I have plenty of interaction with people. If I spend too much time with them, I get tired. At that point my chances of breaking a deal with myself increase.

If you mean gaining moral support from people, I have had workout partners. This actually is effective motivation. But they come and go. It not easy to find people to follow you on a diet, but that may help in that area if I find someone.

As for online communication, this is the first Internet forum I have ever participated in.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Cheeseumpuffs, you make such a mess.

Have you tried the solutions presented here?

Yes and no. My problem isn't to do with trying to stop something, it's more to do with getting the willpower to actually start things. Like right now I have a research paper for english and a practice AP physics test to be doing but I'm busy posting here and playing minecraft even though I know I should be doing other stuff and I know that if I were going to start these things I'd end up getting bored or distracted anyway.

Wait. I did try to stop drinking so much soda once. Failed miserably. Tried to come off The Doctor (I'm trying to make "The Doctor" a slang term for Dr. Pepper. It hasn't caught on so far) gradually but that didn't work at all. It tastes too damn good. Also I get headaches a lot and soda works wonders for getting rid of them.

 

[Capital T]

Self-discipline is what you need and it can only be built by practicing it. You have to regulate - it is helpful to build a routine into your life, which will become habit eventually. Persistence is key - you can't slip up and say "oops, I fucked it up, I give up", you have to smack the dust off when you fall and keep going while paying attention to what happened to learn from it.

 

[BigApplePi]

PV that's a good post. The subconscious as well as the body is still operating against one's wishes. One needs to find a substitute. Suggestion to the subconscious helps. Exercise (mentioned) is a substitute.

What is the blood sugar level? It needs to be on even keel. That's why I mix apple j half and half. Full apple juice is too sweet and will send me too far up with a following down which asks for more sugar. Makes sense?

 

[Mello]

Self-discipline is what you need and it can only be built by practicing it. You have to regulate - it is helpful to build a routine into your life, which will become habit eventually. Persistence is key - you can't slip up and say "oops, I fucked it up, I give up", you have to smack the dust off when you fall and keep going while paying attention to what happened to learn from it.

Pretty much.

The last time I ate shit on my bike, I didn't sit there and cry. I immediately got up and walked it off. I had to sit through 6 periods. >_> It was entertaining to see how everyone reacted though.

People were shocked to see me biking home with a bloody knee.

Allowing yourself to give in to your addictions only makes it worse.

 

[WantonNoodle]

Periph,

Perhaps these unhealthy habits are a result of stress. Or an emotion I'm feeling that I am not aware of. As far as I can tell, I reach for these things because they will make me feel good. Which implies that I am not already feeling good. But I seem fine at the time. The only reason I can give myself is that I will feel even better. Which is almost never the case after the fact.

The 30 min willpower exercises seem promising. I will try this in the morning. I have heard the "willpower is like a muscle" analogy. If it gets strong enough then I will be in a position to install habits regularly. It takes willpower to execute the habit installation process in the first place, so this seems like a logical place to start.

Substitute behaviors have worked for me temporarily. Maybe I just let my guard down before the habit was installed.

 

[Capital T]

PV that's a good post. The subconscious as well as the body is still operating against one's wishes

Some people in this thread need to take a general psychology course. Freudian ideas of the "subconscious" have been irrelevant and recognized as incorrect for decades. The "Subconscious" isn't some deep, emotional force which controls your thoughts without you knowing -> generally speaking strong stimulus = strong memory, things that affect you deeply don't tend to be weak memories that burrow into your psyche and are accessed, affecting your life, without awareness. See PTSD for an example... A memory or memories that are so strong that they are spontaneously retrieved and cause adverse effects on your life.

 

[WantonNoodle]

Self-discipline is what you need and it can only be built by practicing it. You have to regulate - it is helpful to build a routine into your life, which will become habit eventually. Persistence is key - you can't slip up and say "oops, I fucked it up, I give up", you have to smack the dust off when you fall and keep going while paying attention to what happened to learn from it.

In other words, stop being a pussy and do it. This makes the most sense to me. This is the attitude I started this journey with. It's possible that somewhere along the line, I fell off my bike, sat there and cried, and then thought myself into all this me-fighting-me garbage. I forgot that I am in control; That this will not easy and that I will be uncomfortable during this process.

Some people in this thread need to take a general psychology course. Freudian ideas of the "subconscious" have been irrelevant and recognized as incorrect for decades. The "Subconscious" isn't some deep, emotional force which controls your thoughts without you knowing -> generally speaking strong stimulus = strong memory, things that affect you deeply don't tend to be weak memories that burrow into your psyche and are accessed, affecting your life, without awareness. See PTSD for an example... A memory or memories that are so strong that they are spontaneously retrieved and cause adverse effects on your life.

The idea of processes running in the background while we are not aware of them has always made sense to me. Thoughts, ideas, and connections, appear in our conciousness when we were not actively thinking about them. My brain has formed connections between ideas that I was not a conscious part of. Or so it seems.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

For the monkey I'd recommend ketamine delivered via CO2-powered rifle and a pneumatic barb-lock dart.

For the rest, the solution is easy:

I bet you can't do it. I just don't think you're capable, plain and simple.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

I bet you can't do it. I just don't think you're capable, plain and simple.

I accept your challenge......


.....wait.....

You sneaky bastard.

 

[WantonNoodle]

Incapable? Well screw you Doc! I'll friggin show you who can't do what...

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

*shoots Noodle with the tranquilizer dart, handcuffs him (?) to a pole in the closet, and waits for a few hours until he (?) wakes up in a puddle of his own drool*

No really, you can't do it.


But in all seriousness, one thing I've done that works decently well is to convince myself I'm competing against some asshole and make my homepage their facebook profile, so that every time I open a new window I'm repulsed and want to kick their ass.

Something else that works for me is to tie my Fe into my personal family/regional history (we have a very long history of... poverty, hangings, alcoholism, and independence). In my mind if I screw up I'm not just disappointing myself, but at least 10 generations of ancestors and the entire tri-state region of southwest PA, WV, and western MD.

 

[WantonNoodle]

*wonders how long he (?) was out and what happened during that time, realizes he (?) may have made a terrible mistake coming here, but sees it was not all for nothing, because...*

I have a plan of action then. I will perform 30-min willpower intervals while glaring angrily at a pseudo-competitor's profile photo and reminding myself that I'm a natural born regulator.

 

[Words]

I used to pursue something like this then I bitched out. I've personally chosen to just let go of control and proceed with the "unhealthiness" of it all. But I wonder if this passiveness erodes "me" and destroys my "self." Is "willpower" the core of our identity?

 

[WantonNoodle]

BAP
That does make sense. I am curious what my bloodsugar levels are thought out the day. I'll look into it.

Doc
Fe is some what of a mystery to me. I think I understand the concept of imagining that I am being watched by dead relatives who(m) I do not want to disappoint. But when you say you "tie your Fe in..." what exactly does that mean?

Anyone
I think most would classify my lack of willpower as immaturity. Could this lack of maturity in dealing with basic responsibilities to myself be related to my underdeveloped sensing and feeling functions?

 

[WantonNoodle]

I used to pursue something like this then I bitched out. I've personally chosen to just let go of control and proceed with the "unhealthiness" of it all. But I wonder if this passiveness erodes "me" and destroys my "self." Is "willpower" the core of our identity?

In reference to your "spiritual?" self, I believe giving up on a goal that remains important to you does wear on "you" mentally. Your willpower is also eroded when it is not exercised. If you refer your physical self, then still yes, it erodes "you" in the sense that your health deteriorates.

 

[Architect]

We know a fair bit now about what you are trying to do ...

To change a food addiction takes about 4 weeks (might be three, I forget the exact number.) For that long your 'tastebuds' (a generic term) are attuned to the particular food. This is what you are dealing with - one part of your brain (probably a lower part) or central nervous system is sending you strong signals to eat something.

Other habits take a similar period of time. With habits, the best way to change them is not to try not to do X, but instead to Y instead of X. In other words, replacement instead of suppression.

 

[WantonNoodle]

This makes sense, considering, among other reasons, the brain's inability to distinguish between positive and negative focus. Replacing ice cream with carrots is tough, but I'm sure it beats replacing it with nothing. Now to replace my sleeping with weight lifting...

 

[gruesomebrat]

Pretty much.

The last time I ate shit on my bike, I didn't sit there and cry. I immediately got up and walked it off. I had to sit through 6 periods. >_> It was entertaining to see how everyone reacted though.

People were shocked to see me biking home with a bloody knee.

Allowing yourself to give in to your addictions only makes it worse.

Mello, this reminds me far too much of my bike accident in December '09. Pulled the same thing, then found out the next day that I had broken my fibula when I crashed. As amusing as it was to see people stare in shock at a guy wipe out on his bike, practically get run over by his buddy, then get right back on the bike, if I had gone in to the hospital immediately, the doctors could have done something. Waiting until the next day (and only going in because I was having trouble navigating stairs) meant that the doctors didn't take the break seriously, and as a result, my left leg still gives me trouble when I go out for long or intense rides.

"Allowing yourself to give in to your addictions only makes it worse" is so, so true, but how does one wean themselves off an addiction to adrenaline when it's produced naturally in our bodies?

 

[Mello]

This makes sense, considering, among other reasons, the brain's inability to distinguish between positive and negative focus. Replacing ice cream with carrots is tough, but I'm sure it beats replacing it with nothing. Now to replace my sleeping with weight lifting...

Don't sacrifice sleep.

You need it to recycle any thoughts/feelings you've suppressed.

 

[Mello]

Mello, this reminds me far too much of my bike accident in December '09. Pulled the same thing, then found out the next day that I had broken my fibula when I crashed. As amusing as it was to see people stare in shock at a guy wipe out on his bike, practically get run over by his buddy, then get right back on the bike, if I had gone in to the hospital immediately, the doctors could have done something. Waiting until the next day (and only going in because I was having trouble navigating stairs) meant that the doctors didn't take the break seriously, and as a result, my left leg still gives me trouble when I go out for long or intense rides.

"Allowing yourself to give in to your addictions only makes it worse" is so, so true, but how does one wean themselves off an addiction to adrenaline when it's produced naturally in our bodies?

Well, I knew my accident wasn't serious. I would have gone to the doctor if I still felt pain after 2 days.

What are you addicted to?

 

[WantonNoodle]

Don't sacrifice sleep.

You need it...

Agreed. But sleeping in or being lazy when I should be in the gym is another matter.

...to recycle any thoughts/feelings you've suppressed.

What does it mean to recycle a repressed feeling?

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Doc
Fe is some what of a mystery to me. I think I understand the concept of imagining that I am being watched by dead relatives who(m) I do not want to disappoint. But when you say you "tie your Fe in..." what exactly does that mean?

Specifically, I'm the first in my family ever to attend college on either side, and I'm able to put myself in their position in regard to their life experiences; what it must have been like for my great grandparents to live off the land in their shack of a house without heat, vehicles, electricity, public water, or sewage. They walked, burned coal and wood that they dug/cut/stole themselves, drank from a spring, used an outhouse, and stored their food in caves they dug into the side of the streambank. They made their own clothes, hunted, trapped, raised livestock, picked garbage, gardened, and ran the flea market circuit. And this is in the context of the mid 1990s when they passed away, buried together in the same grave that the entire family pooled together to finance (now unmarked, because they could only afford a small metal sign that was stolen for scrap).

If they, and many, many others in Appalachia, could survive such a bone grinding life, I can't just get away with a mere bachelor's degree and a ho-hum middle class life. Therefore, any image of or documentary about Appalachian history/poverty/coal mining or casual joke about "walking 5 miles to the schoolhouse in 4 feet of snow uphill both ways" brings out this rush of emotional power and energy because damn it it was true.

 

[Mello]

Agreed. But sleeping in or being lazy when I should be in the gym is another matter.



What does it mean to recycle a repressed feeling?

Well, you enter your subconscious when you sleep.

You go through a scenario related to reality and you usually find a solution in your dreams.

Unless, you interrupt it with an alarm or etc.

 

[WantonNoodle]

Doc,

Considering the point of view of those who lived through such times causes me to feel a hint of shame. Then again, (and certainly not to discredit your ancestry) cold and hunger are serious motivators. If eating and staying dry tonight meant killing a deer and building a roof, there's no question I'd be out there taking care of business.

Back to the point, thats the kind of motivation I'm looking for. A flood of emotion. I have done some amazing things under the influence of powerful emotions, both positive and negative.

Are there any other suggestions for cultivating this kind of emotional motivation? Now that I think about, even if I do stir emotions such as this, this system doesnt sound sustainable unless it is continuously refreshed somehow.

 

[Mello]

Doc,

Considering the point of view of those who lived through such times causes me to feel a hint of shame. Then again, (and certainly not to discredit your ancestry) cold and hunger are serious motivators. If eating and staying dry tonight meant killing a deer and building a roof, there's no question I'd be out there taking care of business.

Back to the point, thats the kind of motivation I'm looking for. A flood of emotion. I have done some amazing things under the influence of powerful emotions, both positive and negative.

Are there any other suggestions for cultivating this kind of emotional motivation? Now that I think about, even if I do stir emotions such as this, this system doesnt sound sustainable unless it is continuously refreshed somehow.

Find a partner in life?

Follow someone that inspires you?

Actually believe in yourself?

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Are there any other suggestions for cultivating this kind of emotional motivation? Now that I think about, even if I do stir emotions such as this, this system doesnt sound sustainable unless it is continuously refreshed somehow.

It's not something you can do every day, but it's good for several days in a row and gives you that opportunity to develop a disgust for whatever habit you don't want/like. We don't have a judging function, so we've got to rely on emotion to do it.

As far as sustainability, history doesn't exactly go away. If I need a refresher I just google a new image or watch something, or generally learn something new.

I also read books on the side about Appalachia or historical figures. I would recommend the autobiographies of Nelson Mandela and Gandhi, or successful INTPs like James Watson (<- on the bucket list).

Music is another refresher and I can listen to the same song over and over nonstop for perhaps a day if it brings out that emotion, but it dies quickly because I get bored with the song and begin to develop a disgust for it instead.

 

[BigApplePi]

Back to the point, thats the kind of motivation I'm looking for. A flood of emotion. I have done some amazing things under the influence of powerful emotions, both positive and negative.

Are there any other suggestions for cultivating this kind of emotional motivation? Now that I think about, even if I do stir emotions such as this, this system doesnt sound sustainable unless it is continuously refreshed somehow.

Emotional motivation! That's quite a concept. I think of what emotion is about. It's about value. It's about movement toward that value. One can use thinking to judge that value. Like shall I live with this habit? Is it that bad? Or do I want to get rid of it and what will that do for me?

Then there is witnessing change. A realization of what accomplishing that value will do. ("Nothing succeeds like success.") Not only does accomplishment take care of the item in question, but I feel more respect for myself as a whole. That's two emotions.

Emotion is also about self-delusion (something I haven't quite thought out). One gets worked up and seeing that one is in that state, taking advantage without further judgment of reason. Applying willpower successfully is a sort of self-delusion. One is tricking oneself into doing what another part of oneself doesn't want to do.

Now can I take my own advice by tricking myself into getting more done on my taxes, lol.

 

[BigApplePi]

Interesting post T.

Some people in this thread need to take a general psychology course.

Doesn't hurt to have some study in that area ... but beware, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Freudian ideas of the "subconscious" have been irrelevant and recognized as incorrect for decades.

You mean SOME Freudian ideas or ALL Freudian ideas? This guy was a founder of studying what goes on inside the mind. I'd want to give him some credit.

The "Subconscious" isn't some deep, emotional force which controls your thoughts without you knowing -> generally speaking strong stimulus = strong memory, things that affect you deeply don't tend to be weak memories that burrow into your psyche and are accessed, affecting your life, without awareness.

You are speaking strong stimulus. There are many more weak stimuli which take together ... can give a strong stimulus a run for its money.

See PTSD for an example... A memory or memories that are so strong that they are spontaneously retrieved and cause adverse effects on your life.

What upset the apple cart? Not everyone gets PTSD from the same event. The event must have knocked over things we don't know about.

 

[Peripheral Visionary]

Some people in this thread need to take a general psychology course. Freudian ideas of the "subconscious" have been irrelevant and recognized as incorrect for decades.

Because there is complete consensus among all psychologists and the six major schools of thought and all the various sub-branches, and the consensus wisdom will be conveyed in any Psych 101 class. And by the way, a consensus is never wrong.

But back to the issue... there is a lot of good advice posted Noodle. Try some of it, and if it isn't getting you what you want, try something else.