Would you like a Boy or a Girl?

[7even]

Thread title says it all - but also, explain why.

I'm a guy, and I'd love a boy to raise - as I could relate to him on many more levels and engage in activities that boys are generally more interested in. (Hey, not saying girls don't play sports or whatever). I've got a brother rather than a sister, so that may also be a factor.
Wouldn't like to have a girl, that would be kinda shit. Although, I'm pretty sure that once I've got a kid, it's going to be a girl.

 

[H1N1]

You know what I would like. Let's replace that with love. I would love a child who was uninfluenced by social conditioning as well as gender identity. The instilled ideas of masculinity and femininity really pisses me off as of late. That being said, I really like female plants moreso than male plants. I feel as if we communicate better. Seriously. When I have "male" plants they generally struggle to hang onto life let alone actually flourish and grow.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Have two boys. I love 'em both dearly. Before they were born, I really didn't think about, "I hope it's a boy/girl." I couldn't have cared less about that. Strangely, with the younger one, I knew from the moment his mother told me she was pregnant that he was going to be a boy.

But if I ever have another, I kinda hope it's a girl, just for a change of pace. (My) boys are destructive, rambunctious, noisy, messy, and (no offense, my sons, but you really are...) stinky. I highly suspect a girl would be...different in those regards.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

You know what I would like. Let's replace that with love. I would love a child who was uninfluenced by social conditioning as well as gender identity. The instilled ideas of masculinity and femininity really pisses me off as of late. That being said, I really like female plants moreso than male plants. I feel as if we communicate better. Seriously. When I have "male" plants they generally struggle to hang onto life let alone actually flourish and grow.

Instilled? There are certain traits that come as biological presets for males and females, thus masculinity/femininity, and this occurs in all many animals, not just humans.

Not sure what you mean.

 

[Hadoblado]

I would prefer a boy for my first one, but after that I do not have a preference. I am more equipped to deal with boys than girls, both at a societal and physiological level. I agree with H1N1 that about societal gender norms etc., but more likely than not they will be influenced by these norms whether you accept them or not.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I'd like a few of each so I can give them cool names.

 

[snafupants]

Actually I might pull for an abortion early on. I'm not keen on exacerbating overpopulation.

The personal time, energy, and financial commitment of tykes would be prohibitively great.

Spoiler

Folks have kids because of biological impulses and an ultimately vain fight against their own mortality.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I don't know why you left out the option to choose both. 1 of each would be fine, but :

what makes someone want to have a child? I have no idea myself, and looking at the world, it's really hard to want to.

I don't think I'm ready for children nor am I really all that interested at the moment. I'll wait until I'm in my late 20s/early 30s to even discuss it, when I've matured some more and become more independently stable.

 

[snafupants]

I don't know why you left out the option to choose both. 1 of each would be fine, but :

@EyeSeeCold

Both requires at least one initially.

 

[Hadoblado]

I don't think I'm ready for children nor am I really all that interested at the moment. I'll wait until I'm in my late 20s/early 30s to even discuss it, when I've matured some more and become more independently stable.

The most sensible thing I've ever heard.

 

[Architect]

I have a boy who is awesome. A girl would be nice but we're done having kids. I'd likely have another boy however.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

tangentially related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion_and_female_infanticide

ah male preference....
Sex should be irrelevant imo.
If it is not, well I most certainly have a transsexual mind.


I never intend to have children, but if I never manage to go off-grid I might take in older foster children (15+) and see them into adulthood as best I am able. In this instance, for practical and safety reasons, I'd probably only take in females. I suppose I am not without empathy or understanding for sexual discrimination, but as a female that's always been.... on the outside.... it's very depressing.

What's the difference between 'special' and 'defective?'

 

[snafupants]

tangentially related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion_and_female_infanticide

ah male preference....
Sex should be irrelevant imo.
If it is not, well I most certainly have a transsexual mind.


I never intend to have children, but if I never manage to go off-grid I might take in older foster children (15+) and see them into adulthood as best I am able. In this instance, for practical and safety reasons, I'd probably only take in females. I suppose I am not without empathy or understanding for sexual discrimination, but as a female that's always been.... on the outside.... it's very depressing.

What's the difference between 'special' and 'defective?'

Talent and/or ability? Being loved and/or acknowledged by someone?

 

[Cognisant]

*starts handing out boxes of popcorn*

 

[Jennywocky]

I have two boys and a girl.
They're all cool, just different.

I think it's also funny with the discussion on gender roles. Consider it to be riding a horse (at least in my experience); you think you're going to hop and steer this thing, and you quickly find that you're not really in charge of as much of as you'd expect... and with kids I'm talking about innate forces, including personality, some gender expectations.

(You know when they've given boys dolls, the boys end up playing kung fu with them or using them as makeshift guns? Same with Legos. Nature finds a way. )

I never intend to have children, but if I never manage to go off-grid I might take in older foster children (15+) and see them into adulthood as best I am able. In this instance, for practical and safety reasons, I'd probably only take in females. I suppose I am not without empathy or understanding for sexual discrimination, but as a female that's always been.... on the outside.... it's very depressing.

Raising foster kids can be very difficult, you need a certain type of temperament (which you might have... I'm just saying). It's hard to be a parent without rights (essentially) and sometimes have your kid taken back by the state to be returned to a worse home. Not that it's not a worthy goal, and if you can do it, by all means; there are lots of kids who need someone to invest in them. Older kids bounced through the system will also often have a lot of bad defense mechanisms in place that you will need to slowly dismantle through patience and love.

*starts handing out boxes of popcorn*

I've got some Twizzlers. Who's got a Slurpee?

 

[Architect]

I have two boys and a girl.
They're all cool, just different.

I think it's also funny with the discussion on gender roles. Consider it to be riding a horse (at least in my experience); you think you're going to hop and steer this thing, and you quickly find that you're not really in charge of as much of as you'd expect... and with kids I'm talking about innate forces, including personality, some gender expectations.

(You know when they've given boys dolls, the boys end up playing kung fu with them or using them as makeshift guns? Same with Legos. Nature finds a way. )

Yep ... just, yep. I remember it was big in feminist studies a few years ago that the reason women are they way they are is due to training. While there is some truth to it probably I think those theories come from gay feminists who haven't had kids.

 

[Cognisant]

You know when they've given boys dolls, the boys end up playing kung fu with them or using them as makeshift guns? Same with Legos. Nature finds a way.

But how do they know what guns are?

I think musical preferences may be more accurate, I don't know too many women who like dubstep, hard techno or metal, which is not to say no women like that, I mean even sexual preferences aren't exclusive so it would be pretty odd if music was, it's just that there's definite trends to each gender's taste in music.

It's probably just a matter of wiring, it's not inconceivable that boys are more likely to enjoy intense stimuli (explosions for instance) or to a greater degree than girls whose brains are perhaps better wired for subtler stimuli.

 

[Jennywocky]

But how do they know what guns are?

To me, it's like they are scanning the environment, and they immediately pick up on guns and other weapons as items of interest, and discard things they have no interest in.

Let's face it, unless you grow a child up in a bare white-walled room, they are GOING to be primed almost immediately just by existing in the world, and it's the gravitation towards things that is rather frightening.

It's probably just a matter of wiring, it's not inconceivable that boys are more likely to enjoy intense stimuli (explosions for instance) or to a greater degree than girls whose brains are perhaps better wired for subtler stimuli.

I think it's something along those lines, although I don't think it's necessarily the one you're suggesting; personality isn't really gender-based one to one but also describes the needs for intense vs subtle stimulation among other things.

More like cats are primed to learn how to stalk and ducks to swim, and then when they see it in the environment modeled, they immediately respond to it; other stimuli is ignored because they don't have the wiring to recognize it.

 

[H1N1]

Instilled? There are certain traits that come as biological presets for males and females, thus masculinity/femininity, and this occurs in all many animals, not just humans.

Not sure what you mean.

Certain traits, yes. I agree that typically the xx chromosomal pattern tends to be more maternal whereas the xy tends to be more paternal. And yes, I'm well aware of the derivation of those two words so no need to try to elaborate for me. Also, you're not sure what I mean because I was not addressing you personally and posting in a manner fit to apply to your understanding. Cats and dogs, elephants, etc... do not socially condition their young to behave in idealistic ways in correspondence to their chromosomal makeup. That is a quality that pertains only to homo sapiens.

 

[intp.]

Although, I'm pretty sure that once I've got a kid, it's going to be a girl.

How come you know?





Well, I'm a girl and I would like to have a boy.

 

[7even]

Actually I might pull for an abortion early on. I'm not keen on exacerbating overpopulation.

The personal time, energy, and financial commitment of tykes would be prohibitively great.

Spoiler

Folks have kids because of biological impulses and an ultimately vain fight against their own mortality.

Fair enough, by why disregard those biological impulses? The investment you make into the child could be very well worth it in the long term. Wouldn't you say in most cases (excluding rape victims etc.) that a child brings intense joy? (Especially right after labor, and perhaps on a general basis, but I'm only assuming this subjectively, can a parent answer this?) Anyhow, the way I see it is, I live for a limited period of time, and it's just an experience I'd like to have at one point in time.

I don't know why you left out the option to choose both. 1 of each would be fine, but :

I don't think I'm ready for children nor am I really all that interested at the moment. I'll wait until I'm in my late 20s/early 30s to even discuss it, when I've matured some more and become more independently stable.

Yeah, I was pretty sleepy, and made the post rather quickly. Should have inserted 'no preference'. Oh well.
Yeah, I agree, I wouldn't have a child unless I was financially and emotionally stable, and could provide for him/her without struggle, it doesn't mean I can't think of whether I'd have a kid or not.

You know what I would like. Let's replace that with love. I would love a child who was uninfluenced by social conditioning as well as gender identity. The instilled ideas of masculinity and femininity really pisses me off as of late. That being said, I really like female plants moreso than male plants. I feel as if we communicate better. Seriously. When I have "male" plants they generally struggle to hang onto life let alone actually flourish and grow.

So, would you love a child more because he was uninfluenced by social conditioning as well as gender identity? Lets say supposedly you had a kid, would you make an effort to try to raise him this way? I am doubtful of any significant results given his environment, and lets say you had such a child, he wouldn't fit in, and would probably not be a very merry child, although that is just an assumption, I don't exactly know what a child with those qualities would be like.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Fair enough, by why disregard those biological impulses? The investment you make into the child could be very well worth it in the long term. Wouldn't you say in most cases (excluding rape victims etc.) that a child brings intense joy? (Especially right after labor, and perhaps on a general basis, but I'm only assuming this subjectively, can a parent answer this?) Anyhow, the way I see it is, I live for a limited period of time, and it's just an experience I'd like to have at one point in time.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to describe it as 'intense joy', due to the associated hassles of raising kids. However, in terms of sheer entertainment value, kids are second to none.

Also, my 'wife' would probably refute the idea of any positive feelings whatsoever being manifest right after labor. In fact, she appeared to me to be excessively nasty and pissed-off for around three days after both labors.

Main thing to remember about the experience of having kids: It's not a construct of 'one point in time'. Once the deed is done, everything changes permanently. Marriages, jobs, career paths...all of these things can be annulled, changed, modified, even eliminated without majorly dire consequences, but parenthood is an irreversible condition.

Remember too that you'll be locked into this permanent condition with the other parent. If that relationship goes bad, your life will probably become excessively unpleasant.

My vote: It's all worth the risk. Just don't ask me why.

 

[Solitaire U.]

...a child who was uninfluenced by social conditioning as well as gender identity...

Not possible, unfortunately.

 

[skip]

I would have liked either.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Certain traits, yes. I agree that typically the xx chromosomal pattern tends to be more maternal whereas the xy tends to be more paternal. And yes, I'm well aware of the derivation of those two words so no need to try to elaborate for me. Also, you're not sure what I mean because I was not addressing you personally and posting in a manner fit to apply to your understanding. Cats and dogs, elephants, etc... do not socially condition their young to behave in idealistic ways in correspondence to their chromosomal makeup. That is a quality that pertains only to homo sapiens.

Society in general isn't as extreme as it used to be considering gender ideals, unless you live in places where things like religious fundamentalism are authority.

Besides, whatever environment your child is raised in, they're going to pick up external values, including from their own parents, including you. "Conditioning" is unavoidable and arguably necessary.

Yeah, I agree, I wouldn't have a child unless I was financially and emotionally stable, and could provide for him/her without struggle, it doesn't mean I can't think of whether I'd have a kid or not.

I consider maturity important because by the time I'd be older and feel ready, I'd have grown in my perspectives and so my opinions today likely will not be the same ones I have tomorrow.

 

[DeadonDreaming]

Hmm... A pet human! So I can keep it in a cage and poke it with a sharp stick! Any gender will do!

 

[H1N1]

So, would you love a child more because he was uninfluenced by social conditioning as well as gender identity? Lets say supposedly you had a kid, would you make an effort to try to raise him this way? I am doubtful of any significant results given his environment, and lets say you had such a child, he wouldn't fit in, and would probably not be a very merry child, although that is just an assumption, I don't exactly know what a child with those qualities would be like.

Did someone change the title to would you love a male or female child more when you made your post and between now and then someone changed it back? Oh wait. This is INTP forum where titles don't change no matter if the OP begs.

That being said, if I had a child I would make an attempt to raise my child according to his or her preferences. The one thing I will insist on promoting is proper nutrition and exercise. If my male child wanted to pursue ballet even though the majority of populations sees that activity as feminine, I would make or pay someone to make all his little fairy costumes and the like. If my child realizes he or she does not fit in and it bothers them we will have a discussion of which is more important: activities stereotypically for the other gender and their personal interests in said activity or their desire to fit in. From there we will make decisions according to their values. Granted none of their interests break federal laws. Other than drug experimentation. Most humans experiment with drugs and by all means I would much rather my child be experimenting at home rather than at some home where I have no idea what is going on. Given they're at a reasonable age to be exploring themselves as well as drugs.

 

[snafupants]

Fair enough, by why disregard those biological impulses? The investment you make into the child could be very well worth it in the long term. Wouldn't you say in most cases (excluding rape victims etc.) that a child brings intense joy? (Especially right after labor, and perhaps on a general basis, but I'm only assuming this subjectively, can a parent answer this?) Anyhow, the way I see it is, I live for a limited period of time, and it's just an experience I'd like to have at one point in time.

@7even

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but that doesn't top my list at the moment. There are too many concomitant commitments for some rugrat and I'd make a lackluster father anyway.

Intense joy? Meh, that's not how I see it, especially as theoretically applied to my life. I'm not concerned with most cases.

 

[H1N1]

Let's be clear on something here:

I am well aware that gender identity and social conditioning are unavoidable.

Thank you for your time.

 

[snafupants]

Gosh dammit, I'll answer the question - girl. Why?

 

[Duxwing]

I'd rather not curse another sentient being with existence. Frankly, I was better off as a pile of quarks. Ah, well, I guess I'm stuck like this now.

-Duxwing

 

[7even]

Did someone change the title to would you love a male or female child more when you made your post and between now and then someone changed it back? Oh wait. This is INTP forum where titles don't change no matter if the OP begs.

Haha, I disagree. This is an INTP forum and thus one question can lead to several, and there are no established rules of where a conversation can slide. - Good use of sarcasm though.