work trouble

[xbox]

I was all excited for starting my new job (sales associate) at the mall, you know some part-time job while I earn pocket money while going to school.

Recently I've been getting into trouble a lot, for not being loud enough. My manager specifically said "we need to hear you at the back of the store". She also said that me not being loud enough translated to me not "caring for the job", as I appear "nonchalant" the entire time, and that I'm unsupportive. This all goes back to me not being loud enough.

Funny thing is that when people have something bad to say about me, they say that I'm nonchalant, indifferent, or uncaring. When people say something good, they say Im laid back, and cool-headed. It's funny how all the words mean the same thing, but with different connotations.

I don't really change my demeanor in stressful situations. My brain works harder, but I just dont show it. They literally wanted to visually SEE me stressed. My manager told me that I dont look stressed enough, so therefore I dont care.

Logically this doesn't make sense to me. I care about my job, and don't see the correlation. I actually try hard, its not like I hide from everyone in the corner. I walk up to people and talk, and sell things, but I'm not "loud enough".

Anyways, I havent been scheduled for like 3 weeks in a row, so Im guessing thats a bad thing. *sigh* I dont belong there

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Well that's dumb.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Of course, the bottom line would be the sales figures, not the volume of your voice. If you can effectively sell without being loud, then there is no problem. I am guessing your boss is just trying to fix the problem, which didn't work, and Plan B is to have someone else fill the role.

Not that I know anything about your situation--just taking shots in the dark. But, INTPs generally are not effective salespeople, and I would guess that you are no exception. There is a good reason for that. Almost every part of the INTP personality is an impediment to making a sale.

 

[xbox]

Yeah they have sales goals to reach. I probably wasn't doing that. Maybe they just focused on my quietness.

 

[Awaken]

Do you smile? It does wonders.

 

[alrai]

Do you care? you should work hard when you feel ready, and ignore you manager because you don't have to be loud to get your job done.

 

[xbox]

Ofcourse I care, I was excited about my job. I pushed myself to become extroverted, and greet everyone and sell things and follow up. I smiled too and was nice. When I came home, I was mentally exhausted.

I agree that I don't have to be loud to get my job done. Thats why it didnt make sense to me. But looks like they dont like me enough to schedule me anymore :/

 

[LabRat]

I actually went through the same thing recently, I was working for a little sandwich making joint (the kind were they prepare everything in front of you) and my boss told me almost every day i needed to be louder when talking to customers. I kept telling him ok but this one thing is hard for me because I've always been prone to speaking softly. Well he didn't want an excuse of course he wanted a robot to follow his every order, I QUIT!!! probably not the best thing to do but i was only there for like a week in a half. Anyway I've decided to avoid jobs that may require me to yell at people all day, oh and jobs where you work directly under your manager. I've been a waiter before believe it or not and although I'ts nothing but social interaction you work very independently and if you think of it as a memory game where the points you earn is actually money I'ts pretty fun. I don't really like talking to people in general but I've really been trying to make it in a customer service based world until i can work solely with computers. Oh and as far as showing that you care It just takes alot of practice looking in the mirror and imatating other peoples emotions until you have a habit of making the right face at the right time. Don't worry if your face starts randomly twitching as if your putting something evil on it when you smile, perfectly natural.

 

[digital angel]

Have you asked why you haven't been scheduled for the next three weeks? You could call and let your employer know that you're concerned because you've been looking forward to getting back on the floor. Have you thought about setting a goal for yourself in terms of sales or some other aspect of the job? If so, you could also communicate that to your employer. Good luck.

 

[LabRat]

Oh i missed the bit about you not being scheduled for three weeks... your probably fired, just sayin.

 

[EditorOne]

"Have you asked why you haven't been scheduled for the next three weeks?"

Digital Angel asks a good question.

I myself am at a loss to understand what relationship there is between how loud you are and making sales. What's the job, exactly? Personally, I walk away from loud people. I mean, doesn't logic dictate you need to be loud enough for the customer to hear you, not loud enough for the "front of the store" to hear you? It sounds like more bullshit from the bottomless, appalling geyser of crap coming out of some third-rate mind somewhere.

Also, do you have any real idea of whether you are selling merchandise or not? Because if you are my own inclination would be to back the manager in a corner and ask him if he wants the next level up in his food chain to know he's an idiot, because you're selling more (I hope) than all the braying jackasses he's got trained to be braying jackasses.

Real facts are a wonderful thing. What can you assemble?

(Footnote: I'm at the end of my working years. My attitude can be self-indulgently militant and radical these days. :-) A big and joyful "Fuck you!" to everyone in a corporate straightjacket is my idea of a party.)

 

[digital angel]

EditorOne brings up some good things to think about. Good customer service is probably a major part of your job, as well as understanding your products. That's probably where your emphasis should be.

Perhaps the meeting you described is a pep rally of sorts. Specifically, your employer wants the employees to feel good or be enthusiastic about work and products and that's all it was. I would still talk to your employer.

 

[Lostwitheal]

I worked in jewellery sales for a couple of years and although I'm of a similar demeanor, it would seem, this problem never came up. In terms of sales I was usually alright, even though I cared nothing for the job and never actually made an effort. Not being overtly loud had nothing to do with this, though.

In my current job (IT support/management) the fact that I never seem to lose my cool or get stressed is seen as a major bonus, to the point where both senior managers and members of staff commend me on it on a fairly regular basis. Horses for courses and all that.

If your sales figures are anywhere above average then I would definitely second the "What the hell are you talking about, look at my sales figures and STFU" course of action

 

[EditorOne]

"In my current job (IT support/management) the fact that I never seem to lose my cool or get stressed is seen as a major bonus, to the point where both senior managers and members of staff commend me on it on a fairly regular basis." Very nice, and sang froid is definitely one of the INTP bonuses.

However, whenever I thought I was getting too smug about this, I'd paraphrase Kipling's "If."

"If you can keep your head when all those around you are losing theirs, my son,
then you don't understand the problem."

 

[xbox]

I think there is some major bullshitting going on because I DID go this weekend to ask about my progress, and I have made my sales goals. In fact, I got great customer reviews.

This leaves me more confused.

 

[EditorOne]

No, it's good information. Getting good results is the actual bottom line in a sales environment.

Let's go back to the top, where you posted:

"Recently I've been getting into trouble a lot, for not being loud enough. My manager specifically said "we need to hear you at the back of the store". She also said that me not being loud enough translated to me not "caring for the job", as I appear "nonchalant" the entire time, and that I'm unsupportive. This all goes back to me not being loud enough."

So: You have a manager critical of you for issues that appear to not affect your job performance.

Let me ask: Is the company is big enough to have a human resources department? Because going there, or to the manager's superior, is definitely appropriate, after you first ask to sit down with your manager to discuss you "confusion," let's call it that, over her criticism compared to your actual work results. Your confusion is merely over her inconsistency, actually, or what we could call HER confusion, but that's OK, let her figure that out after you get to a meeting with her.

After that play it by ear. If you think she was just bullying but will now back off, that's fine. If she plays it hardass, expand the conflict. (I learned that in international relations classes long ago. Since the facts are on your side, in this instance expanding the conflict works for you, not her.)

Important themes: Managers who criticize when work product is acceptable are vulnerable to charges of harassment. "I feel harassed because even though I'm clearly doing my job I'm being criticized over personality traits that obviously aren't affecting my job." Another important theme: Managers who waste time on things that don't matter are, unless they are the board chairman's daughter, eventually vulnerable, in any enterprise interested in results rather than bullshit. It is, speaking as a Vulcan, inefficient. Then there's the training. Did you get any? If you did, did it saying anything about braying? Lack of training followed by managerial criticism is simply bad form. (I'm betting there was none.)

The argument that your demeanor exudes diffidence is, as you note, a matter of interpretation. In every case, the calm statement you can make is that "You should be looking at my results, not what you think you see on my face, to decide how enthusiastic I am. "

Good luck with all this. It's a pretty big load, because you are required, to reach a satisfactory outcome, to both put yourself out there and to try to deal with people who will, inevitably, turn out to be emotionally invested in some paradigm that will make no sense to you. I suggest you look at it as a situation requiring investigation to satisfy your curiosity rather than anything else, it helps keep some of that stuff at arms length. You'll learn a lot if you pursue this and it will serve you well in the future.

Footnote: You may also learn that the problem is simply communication, that the manager expressed it poorly, and that all you need to do is talk to them more often as business progresses during the day. I'm not sure where "supportive" comes in, so that's something I'd ask the manager about. It could mean not telling her you need more stock moved into a department or something easy. Just sayin'.

 

[EditorOne]

And I think everything I said should be seen under a banner that says " Do not take counsel of your fears."

 

[digital angel]

I think there is some major bullshitting going on because I DID go this weekend to ask about my progress, and I have made my sales goals. In fact, I got great customer reviews.

This leaves me more confused.

I recommend that you play it by ear (keep in mind that it could be nothing) and do your best to make sure that what's important is documented.

 

[xbox]

You both are geniuses. I will reply once I am over my initial shock of your insightful commentary.

 

[xbox]

EditorOne brings up some good things to think about. Good customer service is probably a major part of your job, as well as understanding your products. That's probably where your emphasis should be.

Perhaps the meeting you described is a pep rally of sorts. Specifically, your employer wants the employees to feel good or be enthusiastic about work and products and that's all it was. I would still talk to your employer.

I went to the meeting recently, it was nothing but a pep rally. We had to watch a video, I was waiting for the important information the entire time. But no, it was just "THIS COMPANY IS AWESOME!" Not to mention the excessive shouting of the company's name during the meeting that left me very uncomfortable.

 

[xbox]

So: You have a manager critical of you for issues that appear to not affect your job performance.

Apparently.

Let me ask: Is the company is big enough to have a human resources department? Because going there, or to the manager's superior, is definitely appropriate, after you first ask to sit down with your manager to discuss you "confusion," let's call it that, over her criticism compared to your actual work results. Your confusion is merely over her inconsistency, actually, or what we could call HER confusion, but that's OK, let her figure that out after you get to a meeting with her.

Oh yes, that meeting will definitely happen. It will be a results vs. personality examination. Now when I think about it, there was no issue over results. Just my "carefree, nonchalant" personality bothering her during a busy, stressful time.

After that play it by ear. If you think she was just bullying but will now back off, that's fine. If she plays it hardass, expand the conflict. (I learned that in international relations classes long ago. Since the facts are on your side, in this instance expanding the conflict works for you, not her.)

Yes, indeed. *rubs hands in excitement*

Important themes: Managers who criticize when work product is acceptable are vulnerable to charges of harassment. "I feel harassed because even though I'm clearly doing my job I'm being criticized over personality traits that obviously aren't affecting my job." Another important theme: Managers who waste time on things that don't matter are, unless they are the board chairman's daughter, eventually vulnerable, in any enterprise interested in results rather than bullshit. It is, speaking as a Vulcan, inefficient. Then there's the training. Did you get any? If you did, did it saying anything about braying? Lack of training followed by managerial criticism is simply bad form. (I'm betting there was none.)

I'll keep that in mind. AND NO. THERE WAS NO TRAINING. I have already mentioned this several times to them. Many times they stopped me in my tracks saying: "You weren't supposed to do that." Then I stopped them in THEIR tracks: "Well I wasn't told otherwise, so next time tell me." I don't think I've said "sorry" to them, because of that. My attitude isn't bad, it's just matter-of-fact, and unfortunately laid back.

The argument that your demeanor exudes diffidence is, as you note, a matter of interpretation. In every case, the calm statement you can make is that "You should be looking at my results, not what you think you see on my face, to decide how enthusiastic I am. "

How right is that. I will let them know.

Good luck with all this. It's a pretty big load, because you are required, to reach a satisfactory outcome, to both put yourself out there and to try to deal with people who will, inevitably, turn out to be emotionally invested in some paradigm that will make no sense to you. I suggest you look at it as a situation requiring investigation to satisfy your curiosity rather than anything else, it helps keep some of that stuff at arms length. You'll learn a lot if you pursue this and it will serve you well in the future.

Footnote: You may also learn that the problem is simply communication, that the manager expressed it poorly, and that all you need to do is talk to them more often as business progresses during the day. I'm not sure where "supportive" comes in, so that's something I'd ask the manager about. It could mean not telling her you need more stock moved into a department or something easy. Just sayin'.

Lol the fact that I naturally keep things at arm's length, is probably what is bothering them. The newest personality review I've received is that I'm too much into my shell and haven't opened up. Ok? AND?

These people live and breathe the company brand name, and it definitely weirds me out. I understand the concept business-wise but these people have an emotional attachment, when I do not (and don't plan on it either).

Now that I think about it, this is not the first time that I've been accused of not caring about someone or something, because of my personality. And that 'a showing of stress and panic' is the only way that would translate into me 'caring a lot'.

And gosh, "unsupportive" did have a lot to do with the stock work backing up. HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL OF THIS?

 

[dala]

Even if you win the battle over the 'personality conflict' occurring right now, it wont change the fact that you're at odds with the general philosophy of the company's management. I would look for another job.

 

[EditorOne]

Now that I think about it, this is not the first time that I've been accused of not caring about someone or something, because of my personality. And that 'a showing of stress and panic' is the only way that would translate into me 'caring a lot'.

Yes, indeed, shout "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" Some respond to that with warm approval.

I once was managing editor (#2 position) of a newspaper with an excitable shouter as my boss. One election night (always stressful, those are the nights you automatically buy pizza for the pressmen because you're going to be late) the county announced it was not going to have the results compiled before 12:30 a.m. Our press deadline was 12:15 p.m. We all knew this, I talked to the pressroom manager and the circulation manager and they did the things they usually do to make an accordion-like compression of what they do more leisurely each night. The editor knew this. Nevertheless at midnight he popped out of his hole, bouncing through the newsroom and wanting to know why the election stories weren't moving. When I calmly pointed out that everything that could be written was in fact done and we needed actual numbers from the county election board for the rest, and we already knew the earliest we were going to get them, he got really angry with me. Stayed that way for the rest of my stay there, about six months. Sometimes the ability to remain calm under pressure just isn't appreciated.

"And gosh, "unsupportive" did have a lot to do with the stock work backing up. HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL OF THIS?"

Well, it wasn't a wild guess. I'm not sure what your role in stock work might be, but if it involves communicating with someone who has been giving you a hard time or otherwise making yourself visible, I'm betting you're in the shadows, not the spotlight. And yeah, you should work on that.

 

[pjoa09]

you can use your diaphragm.

sound like a complete loud dick.

I will try to emulate this with worDS.
"GOOD MORNING, SIR. "

 

[xbox]

Haha no thanks. I am looking for a new job though. I can't afford going weeks without shifts. I will be having ^ meetings with them in the time being.

 

[xbox]

So update: I have been meeting up with this general manager that apparently does the scheduling. I kept asking questions while appearing naturally nonchalant, and as usual he seemed annoyed. He said it was budgeting. He also added, that "selling more credit cards will get you more hours, and you sold none." I then said, "I worked there for a total of 5 days... plus I exceeded expectations in selling actual products rather than credit cards, and received positive feedback from customers" Then the reasoning went back to budget issues. It is a sales-oriented job afterall, and obvious personality conflicts, what can I say.

I was telling this to my esfj dad, I got a surprising compliment from him today: He said, "xbox, you were never made for these pathetic mall jobs, you were made for higher level jobs, and I'm trying to get you an internship at my company."

A compliment coming from him is so rare and he's an engineer (who was kinda against me becoming an engineer in the beginning), so an internship there would be AWESOME, and I get paid twice the amount.

 

[digital angel]

Excellent.