Wise to change motivations?

[EndogenousRebel]

We all have inherent motivations and drives. I think these are most reliably revealed in the depths of crises. What to do we do in response to loss and discomfort? What do we reflexively go to defend and or attack?

That behavior might not be a crystal clear image of what motivates us, but I'm sure that with a little thinking you can take that behavior and your rationalization to make something that's fairly accurate. Assuming you know yourself well enough.

Mind you not to reduce the motivation to bio-chemical interactions of the brain, as even the release of dopamine is heavily mediated by an individuals perception. With something so determinant like chemical reactions being dependent on a transiently stable system like consciousness, it would come as no surprise why our fast paced self-imposing world is so toxic to people's mental health.

So the theme I'm interested in, is that if you hypothetically could, would you consider changing what motivates you? I ask this because well, I have things that motivate me, but I also want things that I know would objectively improve my life. Unless I can frame that task and outcome along my motivations I am going to have fight myself every step of the way.

The question of how you would do it is intriguing and would likely be difficult if you are an adult. Lying to yourself would be ineffective once you are on to your own lies, so the best response would be to rationalize everything that's outside your motivations as simply not worthwhile, otherwise you get FOMO. Eitherway it's an important question, because maybe having few motivations makes your life miserable, or wrong motivations whatever.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I am going to mediate for 10 years.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Unless I can frame that task and outcome along my motivations I am going to have fight myself every step of the way.

Seems to me like it's generally possible to frame and align goals with one's values. I'd say that I rejected a few tasks already. Would need to be more specific to consider case by case.

I'm kind of the opposite headed kind of guy. Aesthetics and motivations stay and I align my goals to reflect them. I've come to accept and even like a degree of suffering that life brings when I crash against the flow. It's good excercise. Also I just love the fact that there's an unachievable perfection that I can always strive for that I'm never going to get, but I feel good for making even a single wobbly step towards it.

Suffering can't be too much, because then it shuts down the system. It has to be enough to strain and utilize the system to carry out the task. My body and my brain are just a blunt tool that I need to burn fully through in 80 years or so. They answer to me completely or are trained to do so, I just have to accommodate their limits. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

Like I'm on a mountain trail, can go back on myself or complete the trail. I'd rather complete it.

 

[PiedPiper]

I don't need to frame motivations; my motivations find me. There is no time to balance when there is no place to be. Just wandering across this land and waiting to decipher, all the memories and lost puzzle piece, I have died o pied piper.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I'm kind of the opposite headed kind of guy. Aesthetics and motivations stay and I align my goals to reflect them. I've come to accept and even like a degree of suffering that life brings when I crash against the flow. It's good excercise. Also I just love the fact that there's an unachievable perfection that I can always strive for that I'm never going to get, but I feel good for making even a single wobbly step towards it.

Suffering can't be too much, because then it shuts down the system. It has to be enough to strain and utilize the system to carry out the task. My body and my brain are just a blunt tool that I need to burn fully through in 80 years or so. They answer to me completely or are trained to do so, I just have to accommodate their limits. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

Like I'm on a mountain trail, can go back on myself or complete the trail. I'd rather complete it.

Well, perhaps it's because I have been able to afford some immaturity for most of my life, but there's always that notion that some of that in the grander context of things, a couple tasks that need to be done to accomplish a goal are irrelevant to the main motivation.

This means that I would only half ass achieve goals and or overcompensate in one regard to make up for the lacking of something else, but it's rather difficult for me to do certain things that while vital in an objective context, aren't a priority to my values. Maybe my goals are too big for me to carry alone, but it seems like so much of what I have to do for the best outcome are antithetical to my values/motivations, yet are needed to be done in order to be achieved.

I've worked myself past depletion many times and I'm sick of pretending it feels good. Fatigue, hopeless depression and uncontrolable cynicism is the headspace it puts me in. It makes me feel like I have to start all over. Maybe it's just indicative of my overall mental state and health, or I'm just bad at self management, but I guess this is the avenue I'm looking down.

Just today, probably what elicited this post I thought about how an adventurers spirit is essential, and it seems like your mountain trail mindset is similar. Like sailors who go off into the unknown without any clue, expecting to be disappointed, yet persist towards finding the improbable.

Maybe some people just do it naturally like a skill, but I envision it like looking at goal like a knife, a tool to get what you want, to sharpen the microscopic specs that make up the edge of the blade so that when I cut it goes through smoothly.

I don't need to frame motivations; my motivations find me. There is no time to balance when there is no place to be. Just wandering across this land and waiting to decipher, all the memories and lost puzzle piece, I have died o pied piper.

Doesn't seem that practical for deadlines our competitive environment manifests unfortunately :\

though it sounds like you said you very much allow the environment to dictate what you do, so I guess that could be wrong. I hope you have all the right cues, observation is a tricky beast.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I am going to meditate and send signals to other planets with my pituitary gland receiver sender.

 

[birdsnestfern]

I like the saying 'do the MOST unpleasant task first' and get it out of the way. For me, motivation requires building momentum. You really really have to push that huge ball hard when you begin and then when you accomplish something even if its a tiny bathroom cabinet you are cleaning out, you will feel a bit of satisfaction. But if you do not really really push yourself the next day on another task, you will lose the momentum. Its all about that, the more you stay on track the better the momentum propels you forward and the more satisfying. I know I probably missed the point.

I think survival is the biggest motivator though. You can do a trade off for something because "Beggars can't be chosers" and I hate that saying, so much, but until you can chose, survive. Later when you finish a degree, or get the better job you will have more power. But until you make your way, your motivation has to be to find something that will enable you. Most of the drudge things are Sensor type tasks that we have to adapt to. And yes, round yourself out and expose yourself and adapt skills that help you.

And then, also, I would not be motivated by someone yelling or barking orders at me, I would do the task distastefully to clear myself, but I would work so much better with someone that creates a freer atmosphere, ie, lets me do it my way, and makes you feel safe and supported. Feeling supported and reciprocated will nurture the reason you want to do something. Feeling barked at will not. And therefore, motivation to do something like lose weight for example, its not going to happen under Jillian Michaels. But it might under someone like Jackie Warner because she acts like she cares.

Some of those religious leaders think pounding ideas and shaming is motivating. To me that just repels and shrinks me. I am motivated by real life and learning. But I think most sheeple are motivated by that fear/force feeding especially extroverts because they are so out of touch with their inner selves. Introverts are the opposite. Create space and let each other be and nobody is the same.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Its called grit. Me too.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I am going to meditate and send signals to other planets with my pituitary gland receiver sender.

Can't do something wrong if no one knows what you're doing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe I'm just in the wrong crowds, but I seem to be the most stick-to-it-ness from most people I know. I am lacking in conscientiousness, but I think that my work ethic is still above average.

I think the problem is that ideology just doesn't really work on INTP types. The reason they do things is deeply personal, something that might as well be it's own religious ideology all on it's own. One based on intuition and perception/observation alone, and not yielding to bad intuition and observation.

This I suppose can easily backfire with problems like I apparently have. I am no better a person after I do certain tasks. It's just some illusion if I feel good from doing any task, much less one I regret having to do to begin with.

To trade suffering for something you want. Why? I am just barely thinking about motivation like this. How motivating.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Yeah whatever.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I am going to meditate and send signals to other planets with my pituitary gland receiver sender.

Zen, we all know that your one liners are super hella smart and you're able to summarize everything in a single word, but people here are talking about things that are often important to them or at least need a deeper zen insight than is achievable in one sentence.

Can you hold yourself to one shitpost per thread per week please?


Talking about grit, really? Issues @EndogenousRebel is describing deal with things beyond grit, they're the limits of human performance, finding enough comfort to support a goal and the meta behind motivations.

Let's just say that I probably have far less life experience than you and I'm going to talk about a few basic things that I've dealt with.

Well, perhaps it's because I have been able to afford some immaturity for most of my life, but there's always that notion that some of that in the grander context of things, a couple tasks that need to be done to accomplish a goal are irrelevant to the main motivation.

It's possible that the goal itself is irrelevant and what is rewarding about the whole thing is approaching some part of it. I frequently ask myself; what I want to achieve, but the truer question to me is; what I want to spend my time doing.

This means that I would only half ass achieve goals and or overcompensate in one regard to make up for the lacking of something else, but it's rather difficult for me to do certain things that while vital in an objective context, aren't a priority to my values. Maybe my goals are too big for me to carry alone, but it seems like so much of what I have to do for the best outcome are antithetical to my values/motivations, yet are needed to be done in order to be achieved.

Okay, so are your goals too big or your motivations? I've shot myself in the foot many times with over ambitious goals that I lost the motivation for achieving. Looking at the project management triangle there are generally three things you can change; the scope (how ambitious and big your goal is), cost (the amount of man hours and how many people work on the goal), or the deadline (when is your goal going to be delivered). Ideally one would want to be able to change the scope or the time, or make the scope comfortably small enough to do without torture.

I've worked myself past depletion many times and I'm sick of pretending it feels good. Fatigue, hopeless depression and uncontrolable cynicism is the headspace it puts me in. It makes me feel like I have to start all over. Maybe it's just indicative of my overall mental state and health, or I'm just bad at self management, but I guess this is the avenue I'm looking down.

Agreed, some similar experiences here. Working on a tight schedule for weeks on end to the point where I'm getting fever from mental fatigue or I have to lose more nights to work. Or having impossible deadlines and being responsible for them.

Just today, probably what elicited this post I thought about how an adventurers spirit is essential, and it seems like your mountain trail mindset is similar. Like sailors who go off into the unknown without any clue, expecting to be disappointed, yet persist towards finding the improbable.

It's definitely better to have a clue , even when you sail off into the unknown. A clue about how dedicated one's going to remain to a project or an idea or if another idea won't replace it. It helps if the ideas being worked on are small and self-contained. They could still be parts of the solution to a great big thing, but resolving those blocks has to have some inherent reward in it.

Maybe some people just do it naturally like a skill, but I envision it like looking at goal like a knife, a tool to get what you want, to sharpen the microscopic specs that make up the edge of the blade so that when I cut it goes through smoothly.

It probably comes easier to some, but it's a skill that needs to be learned.

Not sure if that's true in your case, but I've found bad project management or goal misalignment to be the core issue of something akin to what you describe. I assume it's about having to rush a product or a solution out the door without having the time to go through all the proper design steps, or not having enough fun time researching, prototyping and forming a satisfactory solution. This might come down to the company's ethics and standards typically being lower than your own professional standards, or their product orientation being at odds with your approach to creative work and what you're trying to do. Could be your manager, who's pushing for results or doesn't reward quality work nearly as much as they should.

I don't see an easy solution. If you're in a team then your motivations are probably never aligned anyway, you may agree on a certain goal, but for everyone they're going to cut corners in their own way and think of the goal differently.
If it's the manager then changing bosses might help if it's even possible to have a different boss pay you for the kind of work that excites you. Or sticking with the company long enough until you get to decide on the long-term stuff.
Finally if the kinds of goals we're talking about here are small enough one could go self-employed. That's what I did. Kind of a shot in the wild and a hit to a salary. But one gets to choose not only the scope/cost/time orientation to suit what one can do, but also gets to decide on the overall goal.

Easier said than done for sure and might be impossible for certain types of work values.

You've talked about the reward system of the brain so let me just mention going back to the hiking analogy. When I'm hiking I can do a lot of thinking on small side things, or drop them for a while and pick up the pace towards the summit. Nothing beats long term contentment with life, a rush of dopamine is only temporary, but the steady drip of satisfaction and being able to put every motivation on hold whenever it's needed gives a lasting sense of peace. Better to have a system that makes the work just as satisfying as the finish. Who knows maybe that thing that would improve your life needs to be yours to let you appreciate that you're free to aim where you want.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Medgrit

 

[Black Rose]

I have intrinsic motivation. But I do not have the energy nor brainpower. I do allot of thinking. I make many internal judgments. Burnout occurs often. I've felt the need to mentally get somewhere. It's been hard to let go. The challenge was too high. I need to slow down. But I also need an anchor. To keep me steady and focused. Give it some rest.

 

[Daddy]

Bend the dopamine to your will; come to the Dark Side.

 

[Daddy]

I can only speak for myself. But I've learned to push myself to do things I don't want to do, if it means getting things or outcomes I want later. It would always be more ideal to be inherently motivated, but if it's not you just have to accept you might not be happy or miserable for awhile and just do it and get it over with. I find music helps a lot though, even if it's ambient. Kind of takes your mind off doing something you don't really want to do.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

So there's been this theory that the conscious mind is in large part a necessity for humans because we have to solve complex problems that can't be automated. Some describe it as bug though. I don't really buy that, probably there are better ways that nature could've generated an ego. Perhaps, we were the first that ruined everything for everyone else.

So thus, you'd think that the egos/conscious mind's job is to make sure it is unoccupied by tasks as often as it can be, while the rest of the organism looks for beneficial paths and tasks to give it.

Maybe in our modern sedentary civilization where people will rather rot their brains overdosing on media, this can be seen as a by all mean intelligent adaptation of genes back firing.

I just think that it's so strange how all over the place we see the same problems in different forms but there seems to be a huge amount of bullshit on how people should fix their lives.

Is it because no one is selling the right cure, or is it because our environment is just so skewed towards malignancy that there simply is no undoing the damage faster than it happens? I suppose the world has always been bad. But it stands to question about where exactly culture is going and how much we decide it's acceptable to let technology and harmful ideologies shackle us to damnation.

But oh yeah that idea on the ego trying to minimize future work is motivating. I still am no closer to really motivating myself it's lame. I'm mostly recovered from burnout I think but there is a hesitancy that stops me from doing more than the bare minimum that I have to work through. It's lame af. Almost like my body trained me to do this for a couple months so that it wouldn't fall apart. Fucking wack.