• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Will there ever be a black 007

Cognisant

cackling in the trenches
Local time
Today 12:31 AM
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
11,155
---
I saw a thread on The Escapist forum about a black Superman, I though this was a more interesting question as 007 has changed over the years, indeed there's mixed opinions about whether they're all supposed to be the same person, or if the title of 007 has been passed on from agent to agent over the years, and they just happen to all be a certain kind of guy.
 

Wolf18

a who
Local time
Today 11:31 AM
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Messages
575
---
Location
Far away from All This
Funny. Ian Fleming described 007 as having black hair and blue eyes. I guess that's what happens when you put Sean Connery and Daniel Craig together. But considering the direction the movies have gone compared to the books, I don't see that Fleming's original physical description matters anymore.

SW
 

Jennywocky

Creepy Clown Chick
Local time
Today 6:31 AM
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,739
---
Location
Charn
Funny. Ian Fleming described 007 as having black hair and blue eyes. I guess that's what happens when you put Sean Connery and Daniel Craig together. But considering the direction the movies have gone compared to the books, I don't see that Fleming's original physical description matters anymore.

Good point. I mean, the original book Bond is Caucasian, but at this point with 24 or so Bond movies released, and almost half of them not based on Fleming's original books, does it matter anymore?

(Expect more of a stir when someone decides to cast Jamie Bond as a woman, flirting with Mr. Moneypenny.)
 

GodOfOrder

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 6:31 AM
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
520
---
Location
West Virginia
I think they are all technically supposed to be the same person. So, no i don't think a black 007 is a good idea. Also, they may be designated as 007 but they all also have the name James Bond, therefore they are the same person. It just wouldn't make sense. However, new agents are always introduced movie to move, and they could easily be black.
 

Absurdity

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 3:31 AM
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
2,359
---
I think if they did it would have to be well after this most recent one where they introduced a black Moneypenny. Wouldn't want to seem like they were filling a quota or anything.

Eventually they would probably run into some sort of problem. Either Bond's blackness would be entirely superficial and unrelated to his character (as in, he may as well have been purple), or it would affect his character in which case it may to be too far a departure from the initial mold. Like it or not people of color don't exist in the same reality as white folks in white-majority countries. Thus, unless the new Bond was a more comical figure in contrast to the brooding and wounded Daniel Craig, you would have him struggling with the issues of being a black man in white man's world, so to speak. It'd be tough to make that work with the rest of his character, IMO.

I think there would also be implicitly racist reactions among viewers to his womanizing as well (especially when the woman is white).

Edit: There is also the issue of Bond's unwavering loyalty to the Crown. Wouldn't a black person either have been the descendent of a slave/servant, a colonial subject, or a recent immigrant if they were living in Britain?
 

Wolf18

a who
Local time
Today 11:31 AM
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Messages
575
---
Location
Far away from All This
They did make M a woman. M was originally a man. But the lady who plays M is brilliant; much better than the boring man who used to play him/her.

SW
 

Jennywocky

Creepy Clown Chick
Local time
Today 6:31 AM
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,739
---
Location
Charn
They did make M a woman. M was originally a man. But the lady who plays M is brilliant; much better than the boring man who used to play him/her.

Yeah, that was Judi Dench.

She's a real actor, with a long illustrious career (and even some directing credits) in film, TV, and theater, along with a number of awards including at least one Oscar, some Golden Globes, and numerous nominations.

She and Helen Mirren rock my world, I hope to be as classy as both of them when I'm their age.

I really liked that whole sequence where she played M, who otherwise seemed to be a bland milquetoast throwaway cliche.
 

Cognisant

cackling in the trenches
Local time
Today 12:31 AM
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
11,155
---
A female Bond would be awesome and I think the possible issues with Bond being black just makes it all the more interesting, I mean what better way to compare/contrast the difference than to have a black man play a traditionally white man's role.

That said in the UK I don't see how a man in a suit would be treated any differently because of his colour, generally a suit says "fuck off, I have the money and intelligence to sue you" and in Africa or the Middle East or Southwest Asia (I'm opening this to being coloured in general) not being white would be quite advantageous, I mean the new guy in his first movie, in Africa, they were so obvious and spy agencies are well aware that if they're sending agents abroad the agent needs to be able to blend in.

Getting back to the female Bond, I can't get over how awesome that would be, I guess she'd be something like Lara Croft as played by Angelina Jolie, although female protagonists don't seem to take half as many hits as male ones do, both in hand to hand or gunfights, it's a struggle to imagine Jolie playing move for move Daniel Craig's role in Skyfall, for example getting shot in the chest during the train chase, the first time. Nor are female protagonists "allowed" to be so sexually aggressive, when Bond takes notice of a woman you know in a scene or two he's going to be fucking her, a female Bond might catch up with an old flame, but not just pick up someone in a bar.

But I'd like to see a sexually assertive, mildly sociopathic, heavy drinking female protagonist who is almost always wearing a suit, or if a dress then one that lets her move and for fucksake no high heels, nothing shits me more than an "action chick" in heels.

Kill Bill did this well, the female protagonist got wounded and wore somewhat appropriate clothing for a fighter (the pants could have been less tight) so at no point was there ever an impression that she was any less of a badass for being a chick.
 

Solitaire U.

Last of the V-8 Interceptors
Local time
Today 3:31 AM
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
1,453
---
Wouldn't want to seem like they were filling a quota or anything.

I think they met and possibly exceeded that quota with Live and Let Die.

But yeah, seems doubtful there will ever be a non-Caucasian James Bond. Supporting actors/actresses and their associated cultural settings, yes, but 007 it seems will always be The Imperialist White Man walking tall and wrecking havoc in third-world countries.
 

Wolf18

a who
Local time
Today 11:31 AM
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Messages
575
---
Location
Far away from All This
Yeah, that was Judi Dench.
I really liked that whole sequence where she played M, who otherwise seemed to be a bland milquetoast throwaway cliche.

Well-spoken, Jennywocky.

Solitaire U., well-spoken as well.

SW
 

wonkavision

Banned
Local time
Today 3:31 AM
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
420
---
I'd love to see a black 007.

In fact, here's the perfect actor:

Idris Elba.

He's British. He's manly. He looks like a black Sean Connery. There you go.


idris-elba-takers-premiere-pic.jpg
 

Double_V

Active Member
Local time
Today 5:31 AM
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
280
---
I think if they did it would have to be well after this most recent one where they introduced a black Moneypenny. Wouldn't want to seem like they were filling a quota or anything.

Eventually they would probably run into some sort of problem. Either Bond's blackness would be entirely superficial and unrelated to his character (as in, he may as well have been purple), or it would affect his character in which case it may to be too far a departure from the initial mold. Like it or not people of color don't exist in the same reality as white folks in white-majority countries. Thus, unless the new Bond was a more comical figure in contrast to the brooding and wounded Daniel Craig, you would have him struggling with the issues of being a black man in white man's world, so to speak. It'd be tough to make that work with the rest of his character, IMO.

I think there would also be implicitly racist reactions among viewers to his womanizing as well (especially when the woman is white).

Edit: There is also the issue of Bond's unwavering loyalty to the Crown. Wouldn't a black person either have been the descendent of a slave/servant, a colonial subject, or a recent immigrant if they were living in Britain?

Do you really think that the rest of the world is hung up on slavery? And don't we really see bond as an Englishman? You know they come in more than one color over there.

And it's possible a black man could be born outside of the USA and -or - not only not be a descendant of a slave, but in fact be the decendant of slave traders.

I'd pay to see Don Cheadle as 007.
 

Absurdity

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 3:31 AM
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
2,359
---
Do you really think that the rest of the world is hung up on slavery? And don't we really see bond as an Englishman? You know they come in more than one color over there.

Yes, I know, I've been there. And there are in fact a number of racial tensions in the UK, so yes, I suppose they are "hung up" on something. But you're missing the point: the sex appeal of the James Bond franchise lies in its undercurrents of traditionalism. Bond is supposed to be a debonair English gentleman; as Solitaire U. explained, he harks back to the romance of Britain's imperial past. This is precisely why the films are not as flimsy as they would be otherwise: Bond films do not try to gloss over imperialism, they embrace it. Part of the allure lies in the dangerous implications of this embrace.

If a new Bond was demonstrably not English by origin but by adoption, the audience would demand some sort of explanation as to his origins, and it would be much more difficult for him to exude the undertones of imperialism if it seemed his ancestors were clearly on the losing end of the equation.

And it's possible a black man could be born outside of the USA and -or - not only not be a descendant of a slave, but in fact be the decendant of slave traders.

The descendant of a slaver? Oh yes, that positively gushes the level of sophistication required to play a convincing Bond.
 

Hawkeye

Banned
Local time
Today 11:31 AM
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
2,424
---
Location
Schmocation
The last Bond film didn't feel like a Bond film to me. I enjoyed the film nonetheless despite some of it's silly flaws.

There was a big kerfuffle when Daniel Craig first played Bond because he was blond. It really doesn't matter what Bond looks like as long as the person acts like Bond.

It's not like he's Elric of Melniboné or the Incredible Hulk where the skin colour is a main feature.
 

Double_V

Active Member
Local time
Today 5:31 AM
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
280
---
Yes, I know, I've been there. And there are in fact a number of racial tensions in the UK, so yes, I suppose they are "hung up" on something. But you're missing the point: the sex appeal of the James Bond franchise lies in its undercurrents of traditionalism. Bond is supposed to be a debonair English gentleman; as Solitaire U. explained, he harks back to the romance of Britain's imperial past. This is precisely why the films are not as flimsy as they would be otherwise: Bond films do not try to gloss over imperialism, they embrace it. Part of the allure lies in the dangerous implications of this embrace.

If a new Bond was demonstrably not English by origin but by adoption, the audience would demand some sort of explanation as to his origins, and it would be much more difficult for him to exude the undertones of imperialism if it seemed his ancestors were clearly on the losing end of the equation.



The descendant of a slaver? Oh yes, that positively gushes the level of sophistication required to play a convincing Bond.


Darn it. I've got a meeting tonight so I can't play with you! But the highlighted the sentence.... I disagree with you. Bonds brand/tradition is sex, not color.

I would also say that american audiences LOVE some black men. Morgan Freeman, who doesn't just love him? Not his color. Him.

Gotta go.

P.S. Isn't Obama a descendant of slave traders? We didn't hold it against him. He's been was elected president twice....
 

Magus

Active Member
Local time
Today 11:31 AM
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
114
---
More likely than a black 007 in the near-mid term would probably be increased roles for more suave action-movie characters rather than the more common 'buff' Wesley Snipes/Denzel Washington mould.

Then again, as traditional stories are constantly being reinvented there isn't any reason to suppose a black 007 would never happen. Moneypenny in Skyfall was recast as black this time around so I guess you can expect studios to 'mix it up' more and more into the future.
 
Top Bottom