Why Must Stories Have Conflict?

[Duxwing]

This is much like art, there's no set definition. Had we been talking about a scientific term then I could simply tell you it's definition right here right now. I remembered spending one college source discussing the question "What is art?" and we still can't agree until now.

Ok. Are we therefore agreed that academic consensus has neither defined conflict nor demonstrated its narrative necessity?

As for necessity I think we should look how it was been used since time immemorial. According to that wiki article that I cited, the earliest storytellers like the Greek already use agon as an integral part of a story and the conflict that they entail. The only way for you to disprove history is to make your own conflict-less story.

You're arguing from tradition and asking me to prove a negative.

I was being dramatic but oh well. If you want to do that then we really can't provide closure to your query. That's the cost of not asking for your definition.

You have provided closure to my query by saying that academic consensus has neither defined conflict nor demonstrated its narrative necessity.

Well I could argue that war isn't conflict as well since it's just a term if separated from other story elements.

What?

-Duxwing

 

[Pyropyro]

Ok. Are we therefore agreed that academic consensus has neither defined conflict nor demonstrated its narrative necessity?



You're arguing from tradition and asking me to prove a negative.



You have provided closure to my query by saying that academic consensus has neither defined conflict nor demonstrated its narrative necessity.



What?

-Duxwing

Ah, now you're just hounding me until I agree with you. Anyways, I'll be leaving this thread now since nothing productive would come out of this.

 

[Duxwing]

Ah, now you're just hounding me until I agree with you. Anyways, I'll be leaving this thread now since nothing productive would come out of this.

I'm not trying to get you to agree with me. I was just trying to get a question answered: "Has academic consensus defined conflict and demonstrated its narrative necessity?"

Why will you not answer it?

-Duxwing

 

[redbaron]

We don't know. Go look for yourself.

 

[Duxwing]

We don't know. Go look for yourself.

Thanks. I will wait to see if anyone has some sources just in case they know.

-Duxwing

 

[AngelOne]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm not trying to get you to agree with me. I was just trying to get a question answered: "Has academic consensus defined conflict and demonstrated its narrative necessity?"

Why will you not answer it?

-Duxwing

Maybe because you're asking people if this definition is ok when it's your job to find the definition. Or maybe because you're changing the question you want answered and you aren't defining the terms you're using. At least, those are reasons why I wouldn't answer your question.

Back to your original question:

Why must stories have conflict? I seek proof--even of the rote response "to be interesting"--that no story lacking conflict can interest anyone.

If you actually want others to engage in a reasonable discussion with you on this topic, then you must define the terms (like "conflict") that you introduced. Until you do, there can be no reasonable discussion.

 

[Duxwing]

Long time lurker, first time poster.





Maybe because you're asking people if this definition is ok when it's your job to find the definition. Or maybe because you're changing the question you want answered and you aren't defining the terms you're using. At least, those are reasons why I wouldn't answer your question.

Finding the definition is not my job because I never purported to understand conflict or believe it narratively necessary. My opening statement is unintentionally misleading because it implies that I wanted to argue rather than research.

Back to your original question:



If you actually want others to engage in a reasonable discussion with you on this topic, then you must define the terms (like "conflict") that you introduced. Until you do, there can be no reasonable discussion.

I never wanted a discussion, only to get some research help.

-Duxwing

 

[Grayman]

I'm not trying to get you to agree with me. I was just trying to get a question answered: "Has academic consensus defined conflict and demonstrated its narrative necessity?"

Why will you not answer it?

-Duxwing

Protagonist vs Antagonist

The conflict is an inherent result of the differences between the antagonist and the protagonist.

You cannot have a story without a protagonist.
You cannot have a protagonist without an antagonist.

 

[Hawkeye]

It also depends what you classify as a story.

If you're saying that single sentences which describe an event are stories, then there are loads of examples.


To answer your question directly: conflict has been defined to mean multiple things; therefore, whether it is necessary for stories is a moot point.

 

[Kuu]

I never wanted a discussion, only to get some research help.

>make thread in INTPforum
>expect conclusive information
>expect no discussion

 

[NormannTheDoorman]

Protagonist vs Antagonist

The conflict is an inherent result of the differences between the antagonist and the protagonist.

You cannot have a story without a protagonist.
You cannot have a protagonist without an antagonist.

To expand on this the antagonist doesn't exactly have to be a person. Man vs Self can always be an interesting one.

 

[Variform]

Why must stories have conflict? I seek proof--even of the rote response "to be interesting"--that no story lacking conflict can interest anyone.

I read a book once by a man called R.M. Patterson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.M._Patterson

No conflict there as it was a book about exploration along a river in what was still wild Canada.

I loved it. First book I read like it.

 

[whatstheMATTER?]

To sit down with intent to write fiction that is coherent, one has to be definitive to some degree: the reader innately demands explanation even if the opposition within the position presented is only tacitly suggested. This is because a reader is aware of the limits of his own perception, and thus understands that for a subjective being to assert anything the denial of something else is a given (the writer too is confronting this conundrum, of course--such is the cause for the constant self-doubt attributed to artists). After all, we are talking about one subjective consciousness attempting to communicate with another in a realm of make believe. Conflict within the script acknowledges the difficulty inherent to this task and attempts to reconcile it at the story's end.

Shot in the dark. Probably a part of it. Interesting question.

 

[JPS]

I'll have a go at this.

First of all, conflict, essentially, is "an incompatibility between two or more ideas, principles, or interests." Story itself is "an account of imaginary or real people and events told for entertainment."

I'd argue that it is metaphysically impossible for there to be an "event" at all without some degree of "incompatibility" going on.

Why? Well, imagine that everything is compatible; everything, thus, is able to exist in absolute harmony with everything else, and no existence precludes or detracts from another.

Is there any sort of ontological impetus going on at all? Quite foreseeably not. Provided things aren't interfering with each other's existence, there really is no metaphysical "fluid" or force by dint of which anything can engorge or contract, or come into being, or go out of it.

Without conflict, there is incompatibility, without which, there are no events, without which, there is no story.

 

[Irukanji]

OP

I believe English teachers are a sad sort of bunch. They seem to be excessively emotional, on an internal level. They can connect with the words a lot better than most, hence why I did terribly in English classes. I couldn't read the teacher, and presenting on facts didn't interest them. They want to read your work as an overlay of the literature, rather than as a side piece. They want to get your subtle hints and play on words from the text. I know that now, but didn't then.

Why do stories need conflict? I don't believe all stories need an obvious source of it. However, being a minority in the brains department, I believe conflict has a certain emotional draw to people and they feel involved. Humans developed telling stories, and perhaps why war is so prevalent is we preferred those stories which our war heros told of their exploits and conquests of our enemies. It (presumably) got us fired up, as a morale booster, as if all of our problems will be solved.

Naturally, some people want to re-create those stories themselves, for their own glory, and so go on to do so. Others write about it, and are able to achieve the same response in their audience by using fictitious weapons and races to baffle the mind into agreeing. Books are like radio, it's all theater of the mind.

One sided stories are the best, assuming nature isn't classed as an enemy. The diary of an explorer and his/her day-to-day struggles interest me more than some wizard fighting demons et. al. Is nature an enemy?

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

must stories have conflicts? not necessarily. i know some stories free of conflict that "work".

theres this manga called YKK, in which the title character is an android who runs a coffee shop. there were entire chapters on brewing coffee or umm repairing stuff. lots of insignificant everyday happenings that recur throughout the manga and minimum dialogue and yet it works. people come and go, time passes, and inexorably everyone around the main character ages while she remains as she is, brewing her coffee. theres no friction, no conflict...only serenity and yet its very moving

i think these kinds of stories tend to have a magical "bigger than life" quality to them

another one that comes to mind is the film celine and julie go boating. dont even ask me to explain what this movie is about...its impossible. all i can say is you'll feel inexplicable magic after watching it

also where i am is here or a tale of the wind or double life of veronique
basically juxtaposition of experiences, and the feelings they induce in you, without disrupting the flow of time in the story(as opposed to stories with conflicts where flow of time would slow down whenever conflict appears and the focus is on the character and how they overcome or fail to overcome conflict). as i said, they give a bigger than life, otherworldly dreamlike feel and help rediscover magic in banal everyday happenings

 

[Tannhauser]

I realized this amusing fact about *all* Hollywood movies not long ago: they follow, very closely, the model of the classical Greek plays. There is a hero, who starts out in a tranquil and harmonic life, then, against his intentions, he is thrown into a conflict against some singular antagonist, he then carries out the fight against the antagonist, wins, returns home etc.

I myself think this is somewhat boring. I usually enjoy the beginning of the "play", where you simply get to see characters living their lives (and I usually have no clue of what the actual story line is as it progresses)

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

yeah i think stories with too much focus on external conflicts and neglect of internal conflicts tend to produce 2 dimensional mary sue protagonists

 

[Tannhauser]

yeah i think stories with too much focus on external conflicts and neglect of internal conflicts tend to produce 2 dimensional mary sue protagonists

Yes. Probably my favorite movie of all time, Tarkovsky's "Stalker", basically has no story line whatsoever. The story line is: 3 guys are travelling to some place. All the conflict happens inside the minds of the characters and is expressed as conversations between them (which, amusingly, makes it impossible to explain to people what my favorite movie "is about").

 

[Rualani]

The stories with conflict out compete the stories without conflict in story marketplace conflict.
A lot seems to be based on taste, and many people don't know why they get into the shit they do. People tried to answer that question and now they are passing down the information in writing classes. I have a pretty conflicted understanding of it all, as well. I would like just some utopian happy stroll through life for a character as a short story.