Why is solar energy still so globally inaccessible?

[Hourglass]

Like many people, I aspire to use solar energy more often than not but it is not inexpensive

What makes things like solar panels so expensive?

What does it take to make solar energy available for everyone?

Why aren’t our governments funding solar-fueled energy grids on a residential level?

Why do commercial solar energy projects seem so expensive and intensive?

 

[birdsnestfern]

I don't know why really, but I did like the most affordable one I could find, which is the Jackery and its solar panel for power outages, to power a small portable air conditioner, or a fan or run a laptop for movies while I sleep. I have those battery candles all over the house too.

We are on a Spanish moss covered oak tree island where you hardly get a glimpse of blue sky, or sunshine during the day, so recharging would have to be done on your car dashboard in a parking lot somewhere using a portable solar charger. Trees are a big deterrent to solar power. You'd have to cut down trees to have it, and trees help to cool you off in Summer heat, so it isn't practical.

Recharging Panel:


Small Jackery:
I like the small jackery a lot for recharging ipad or iphone when power goes out, and it recharges with AC power also within a few hours. I actually do use it.


And here is a very nice mini fan with USB charger that you can clip under an umbrella in the heat or use for a stroller or kept in your backpack or purse, anywhere and it has three speeds, this one is very good to have in the heat if you have to walk to the store in exteme heat or at an outdoor venue.



Medium Jackery:
Same, it charges with AC power quickly and uses power slowly. You just press a button and plug your items in.



Of all the types of battery candles, this is my favorite type, its easy to replace batteries and they are quite re-usable, most stop working, these last on and on:

The Wen Generator is very portable too, but I have never put gasoline in it, as I don't know if I'd use all the gas up and trying to figure out how to dispose of old gas is difficult. I bought marine gas a few years ago and gave it away on my buy nothing group to an old Southern man who knew how to use it. I'm guessing (?) Bonfires? Lol? At least he got a really nice gas can out of it. I think their son has a property in the country where they do have bonfires, so I was happy to let him have it.

Anyway, after dealing with gasoline, I would much prefer the Jackery solar power system and you can plug it in to recharge it without the solar panel too.

If you don't mind gasoline, the Wen is pretty decent, but you've got to buy funnels, measuring devices for precise amounts of oil and specific types of oil and gas, and you've got to read a manual before you can even begin. Ugh, I'm not sure I'm up to any of that.

 

[dr froyd]

havent researched the science and infrastructural aspects of solar in detail, but my 2 cents:

1 square meter of solar panel produces about 300Wh of electricity.
in comparison, 1 cubic meter of natural gas is about 10,000Wh.

if you cover your entire house with solar panels, you can maybe power your lights and computer - under good weather conditions and only during daytime.

i dont think solar is efficient enough to justify a massive centralized infrastructure, which means every house has to maintain their own electricity infrastructure which sounds extremely costly and inconvenient.

historically, it seems that even during the renewables-investment craze that peaked around 2021, solar didn't attract much attention (in contrast to e.g. wind, hydrogen, and carbon capture), so there's probably a good reason for it. Although i might be getting a biased view since i live in a region with very little sun

 

[onesteptwostep]

I watched a couple documentaries on this and apparently China has won the solar energy market, beating out Germany. I'm guessing there's a reluctance for countries to buy Chinese solar, so there's hesitation towards that renewable.

 

[Hourglass]

hardly get a glimpse of blue sky, or sunshine during the day, so recharging would have to be done on your car dashboard in a parking lot somewhere using a portable solar charger. Trees are a big deterrent to solar power. You'd have to cut down trees to have it, and trees help to cool you off in Summer heat, so it isn't practical.

i live in a region with very little sun

Ah, I suppose shade and environmental surroundings like trees sometimes compete with solar availability.

 

[Black Rose]

Hawaii has so much solar energy they cannot use it all. They stopped installation.

 

[scorpiomover]

Like many people, I aspire to use solar energy more often than not but it is not inexpensive

What makes things like solar panels so expensive?

Laws of demand and supply. Today, the wealthy also want to show off how environmentally friendly they are. So the billionaires want to buy solar panels. Naturally, the billionaires have plenty of money to spend on solar panels. So that drives the price up.

What does it take to make solar energy available for everyone?

Either:
1) Government regulations that they have to be priced cheaply enough that the average person can afford them.
2) The bottom drops out of the solar panel market, and no-one wants to make lots of money from them anymore.

Why aren’t our governments funding solar-fueled energy grids on a residential level?

Because even the left-wing political parties are now in bed with capitalist corporations. So the left-wing's interests and the right-wing's interests are now completely aligned with capitalism, and right now, capitalist corporations stand to make a lot more money, by raising the prices.

Why do commercial solar energy projects seem so expensive and intensive?

1) They are so expensive, because industrial projects rely on mass production, which relies upon the required conditions being exactly the same everywhere. Solar energy projects depend on the weather, and the weather is different in different places. So different areas of solar farms keep breaking down all the time.

Plus, because it's commercial and everything is so competitive these days, everyone is struggling to make money, and so everyone is trying to take their cut from everything. So you've got 20 different suppliers in the chain all taking their cut, even before profits start rolling in. So the cost get magnified several times over.

2) They are so intensive, because industrial projects are also commercially-based, which means they try to squeeze the most bucks they can, which means they try to work things as intensively as possible.

 

[ZenRaiden]

A panel has to be manufactured from certain elements that have to be mined.
That is not green, but most people don't know that.

A panel has to produce during its existence enough energy to cover the cost of manufacturing. Unfortunately panels make very little energy comparably to other sources of energy. So it takes years before you produce energy with the panel that cover the cost. Most normal people don't have enough money to cover the cost of panels. So panels are for middle class and upper middle class and rich people. Most people in the world are poor and cannot afford this tech.

A panel can break down, hence the cost will not be covered. Panels are unreliable source of energy. In space there are no clouds, so panels are 100 percent guaranteed to produce energy.

Once the panel cost is payed of by the panel producing energy, which usual takes few years, it still has to keep working for extra few years to be economically feasible.

Once the panel stops working it has to be disposed of. There are no green friendly ways to get rid of panels. We just don't know what to do with panels once they are non functional. There are no recyclation methods. No one seems to care about this problem.

In total panels are green in commercials, but in reality they are like electric cars. The idea is great. Once you consider the existence of electric car or panel from manufacturing to its disposal you realize its not green at all. Its rather a big hit for the environment. Most businessmen are only looking at the profit side of tech, and telling people its green is one way to make profit from panels that are barely feasible let alone green.

What is interesting is that many panels are simply put into warehouses.
Then there they are waiting to be disposed off. Since its expensive and no one really knows how to get rid of them we seem to have a problem.

In space few panels have no impact on our environment.
On Earth millions of tons of panels will ruin the planet.
Ecology is not idea problem. Its math, physics and chemistry problem.
The world seems to be runned by Entrepreneurial ENTPs and ENTJs.

When INTPs and INTJs come out of the wood work and say this shit does not work, people with profit margins s in solar and electric will shut people down.

 

[Hourglass]

ENTP

Perhaps the sentiment of who the world is “run” by are moreso the ENTJs and ESTJs.

Observation: I think I once knew an ENTP and none of their ideas actually lasted in a sustainable way. Although this person could have been ESTP. But based on their obsession with INFJs I sensed they were ENTP. Felt like 1 amazing idea for every 1000 ideas, plus that 1 idea would take villages upon villages for a chance at being a real thing.


Whereas… There was a time in my life where ENTJs would constantly end up somewhere within my vicinity and typically they would almost pass as INTJs except more surrounded by and motivated directly by the idea of something very grand paired with some somewhat realistic way they were going to achieve that grand thing.

But you can tell the difference by the way they have strong Se needs and their Fi is sometimes hidden or at least sometimes hard to access.

Personally, I’m not interested in grandiosity but there are many grandiose personalities in business, so I can see why ENTJs would be more businesslike than myself/INTJs. This is not to say all ENTJs are grandiose - they are not.

I think there is more of that instant daily gratification Se need for ENTJs as well which naturally sometimes other humans provide. I knew a few ENTJs in law for example; being a lawyer requires constantly talking to different people, handling people as well as the drama that comes along. I once considered law but it didn’t feel right.

has to be manufactured from certain elements that have to be mined.

That is not green, but most people don't know that.

Interesting, so is it more the act of mining that is not green or the materials being mined that is not green?

Once the panel stops working it has to be disposed of. There are no green friendly ways to get rid of panels. We just don't know what to do with panels once they are non functional. There are no recyclation methods. No one seems to care about this problem.

Although it would seem commercial panels are intended to be built to last, no?

What about fixing or replacing parts of panels - I imagine that is not something people are trained enough on how to fix and so it is just easier for companies that indulge in solar panels to get new ones?

I suppose there are better renewable alternatives like wind but I can’t imagine many people using that on a residential level.

 

[Cognisant]

What about thermal solar in an enclosed glass roof?

Solar power plants don't use solar panels they use mirrors to focus as much light as possible on what is essentially a boiler and a turbine.

I doesn't have to tilt, having it point directly at the sun increases power output but you'll still going to collect power throughout most of the day if it's simply facing upwards and it could double as a very effective rain catcher. Indeed since you're making steam to power a turbine this could also be used as a water purifier system.

 

[Cognisant]

Something like that seems reasonable, you'd need glass sections near the apex of your roof but you won't be able to see what they're for from the ground, it would just look like a somewhat extravagant skylight.

The pipe will get very hot but if it's designed right hot air should be able to escape out the top rather than building up in your roof and the hot air leaving will suck cool air in from your windows. Or a warm house might be your preference.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Perhaps the sentiment of who the world is “run” by are moreso the ENTJs and ESTJs.

Observation: I think I once knew an ENTP and none of their ideas actually lasted in a sustainable way. Although this person could have been ESTP. But based on their obsession with INFJs I sensed they were ENTP. Felt like 1 amazing idea for every 1000 ideas, plus that 1 idea would take villages upon villages for a chance at being a real thing.


Whereas… There was a time in my life where ENTJs would constantly end up somewhere within my vicinity and typically they would almost pass as INTJs except more surrounded by and motivated directly by the idea of something very grand paired with some somewhat realistic way they were going to achieve that grand thing.

But you can tell the difference by the way they have strong Se needs and their Fi is sometimes hidden or at least sometimes hard to access.

Personally, I’m not interested in grandiosity but there are many grandiose personalities in business, so I can see why ENTJs would be more businesslike than myself/INTJs. This is not to say all ENTJs are grandiose - they are not.

I think there is more of that instant daily gratification Se need for ENTJs as well which naturally sometimes other humans provide. I knew a few ENTJs in law for example; being a lawyer requires constantly talking to different people, handling people as well as the drama that comes along. I once considered law but it didn’t feel right.

That MBTI thing was a joke. It was meant as dichotomy, about profit and goal oriented mindset, vs non profit P meandering mindset.
Lots of our human thinking is shaped by who we are and how we function.
Id say someone who is go getter and goal oriented like ENTJ and ENTP will not be looking for real solutions on having this planet survive, as there is not reward or profit in it.
Its literally a boring, tedious and gargantuan task that will take decades maybe 100 years to be figured out, by lots of people who will have to think for very long for no money likely.
Only after we find profitable ways of something can we make profit.
Unfortunately that means we aim for quickest profit in quickest way today.
Which means we narrow our minds to reality.
And factually this reality we exist in like destruction of Earth is factual, but so great, that no single individual can face this and say we have a solution. Being in denial is easier.
Green planet is not happening this century, no matter what commercials say, no matter how many ENTJs shout off roof tops they will do it by 2025, or how many ENTPs say they got it figured out.
Its simply a massive titanic problem, a problem this civilization never ever faced before. It will take 1000s of hardworking Einsteins that will have to work all day everyday for very long time. Because green planet has no quick fix.

Just because some businessman says x tech I am selling will solve this problem is absurd.

Interesting, so is it more the act of mining that is not green or the materials being mined that is not green?

By default everything today people do ( produce and manufacture) is obviously destructive to the planet and to ourselves by extension. Its just the way our technology works these days. We are essentially making panels at the expense of environment. Everything people do is some sort of compromising trade off.
The blind spot for people is that what is done wrong today will only have impact down the line. For most people now is important if they want to cover demand.
The idea of green Earth has sever limitations.

Personally, I’m not interested in grandiosity but there are many grandiose personalities in business, so I can see why ENTJs would be more businesslike than myself/INTJs. This is not to say all ENTJs are grandiose - they are not.

I think most ENTJs are not grandiose, they are just extremely over-motivated. Because that is how Te functions. Thinking in goals and action is what makes them go. I kind of like ENTJs as long as they don't tell me what to do.

Although it would seem commercial panels are intended to be built to last, no?

What about fixing or replacing parts of panels - I imagine that is not something people are trained enough on how to fix and so it is just easier for companies that indulge in solar panels to get new ones?

I suppose there are better renewable alternatives like wind but I can’t imagine many people using that on a residential level.

I think there is massive future of solar. The trouble is people want to beat as much profit from technology way before it fully develops. Technology just needs time to develop.
Take for example airplane tech. It took 100 years to build the planes we take for granted we see in the sky.
Most people think in terms of decades at best. We don't have the mind set or band with to think that much ahead. But we need to start doing so.

 

[Hourglass]

What about thermal solar in an enclosed glass roof?

Solar power plants don't use solar panels they use mirrors to focus as much light as possible on what is essentially a boiler and a turbine.

View attachment 7193

I doesn't have to tilt, having it point directly at the sun increases power output but you'll still going to collect power throughout most of the day if it's simply facing upwards and it could double as a very effective rain catcher. Indeed since you're making steam to power a turbine this could also be used as a water purifier system.

I think I get this.

Questions I have (but do not necessarily expect answers for):

Is the curvature of the mirror or reflective material necessary? I imagine a similar effect could be achieved with flat panels jointly connected

Could there be a less space-consuming configuration?

 

[Hourglass]

Perhaps the sentiment of who the world is “run” by are moreso the ENTJs and ESTJs.

Observation: I think I once knew an ENTP and none of their ideas actually lasted in a sustainable way. Although this person could have been ESTP. But based on their obsession with INFJs I sensed they were ENTP. Felt like 1 amazing idea for every 1000 ideas, plus that 1 idea would take villages upon villages for a chance at being a real thing.


Whereas… There was a time in my life where ENTJs would constantly end up somewhere within my vicinity and typically they would almost pass as INTJs except more surrounded by and motivated directly by the idea of something very grand paired with some somewhat realistic way they were going to achieve that grand thing.

But you can tell the difference by the way they have strong Se needs and their Fi is sometimes hidden or at least sometimes hard to access.

Personally, I’m not interested in grandiosity but there are many grandiose personalities in business, so I can see why ENTJs would be more businesslike than myself/INTJs. This is not to say all ENTJs are grandiose - they are not.

I think there is more of that instant daily gratification Se need for ENTJs as well which naturally sometimes other humans provide. I knew a few ENTJs in law for example; being a lawyer requires constantly talking to different people, handling people as well as the drama that comes along. I once considered law but it didn’t feel right.

That MBTI thing was a joke. It was meant as dichotomy, about profit and goal oriented mindset, vs non profit P meandering mindset.
Lots of our human thinking is shaped by who we are and how we function.
Id say someone who is go getter and goal oriented like ENTJ and ENTP will not be looking for real solutions on having this planet survive, as there is not reward or profit in it.
Its literally a boring, tedious and gargantuan task that will take decades maybe 100 years to be figured out, by lots of people who will have to think for very long for no money likely.
Only after we find profitable ways of something can we make profit.
Unfortunately that means we aim for quickest profit in quickest way today.
Which means we narrow our minds to reality.
And factually this reality we exist in like destruction of Earth is factual, but so great, that no single individual can face this and say we have a solution. Being in denial is easier.
Green planet is not happening this century, no matter what commercials say, no matter how many ENTJs shout off roof tops they will do it by 2025, or how many ENTPs say they got it figured out.
Its simply a massive titanic problem, a problem this civilization never ever faced before. It will take 1000s of hardworking Einsteins that will have to work all day everyday for very long time. Because green planet has no quick fix.

Just because some businessman says x tech I am selling will solve this problem is absurd.

Interesting, so is it more the act of mining that is not green or the materials being mined that is not green?

By default everything today people do ( produce and manufacture) is obviously destructive to the planet and to ourselves by extension. Its just the way our technology works these days. We are essentially making panels at the expense of environment. Everything people do is some sort of compromising trade off.
The blind spot for people is that what is done wrong today will only have impact down the line. For most people now is important if they want to cover demand.
The idea of green Earth has sever limitations.

Personally, I’m not interested in grandiosity but there are many grandiose personalities in business, so I can see why ENTJs would be more businesslike than myself/INTJs. This is not to say all ENTJs are grandiose - they are not.

I think most ENTJs are not grandiose, they are just extremely over-motivated. Because that is how Te functions. Thinking in goals and action is what makes them go. I kind of like ENTJs as long as they don't tell me what to do.

Although it would seem commercial panels are intended to be built to last, no?

What about fixing or replacing parts of panels - I imagine that is not something people are trained enough on how to fix and so it is just easier for companies that indulge in solar panels to get new ones?

I suppose there are better renewable alternatives like wind but I can’t imagine many people using that on a residential level.

I think there is massive future of solar. The trouble is people want to beat as much profit from technology way before it fully develops. Technology just needs time to develop.
Take for example airplane tech. It took 100 years to build the planes we take for granted we see in the sky.
Most people think in terms of decades at best. We don't have the mind set or band with to think that much ahead. But we need to start doing so.

A fair point that technology takes time to fully develop and the attempts to profit from it are at very early stages. On the one hand this keeps things moving along but on the other hand it stalls what is ideal.

We sometimes allow ourselves to think in timespans of a few months or a few decades perhaps in relation to one’s own lifetime yet never or rarely about timespans beyond decades.

Thinking on centennial timespans could be a good mental exercise.

Personally, I hope to create something helpful for the world within my lifetime, but if it happens beyond it I suppose I should be fine with that as well.

Or if I don’t create something helpful then I suppose the least I can do is be a good citizen.

Although perhaps the inverse sentiment of thinking beyond decades of possibility is that it is also true that one can actually [insert preferred verb here i.e. do, create, conceive of] a lot in a single hour, day, week, month, etc.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Thinking on centennial timespans could be a good mental exercise.

Yes, but then life happens. So our way of thinking is always liable to be challenged, in such spans. Its just human reality that we need stability to have functioning civilization.
Its definitely worth figuring out what we can do over time. Its a process.
Unfortunately most people will tell you to "just do it".
I saw a girl with a t shirt I loved more. "Just do nothing."
We live in a machinery. That machinery has rules and laws.
That machinery does not have humanity really.
Only individuals bring humanity to it.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Although perhaps the inverse sentiment of thinking beyond decades of possibility is that it is also true that one can actually [insert preferred verb here i.e. do, create, conceive of] a lot in a single hour, day, week, month, etc.

We are human, so the now matters too. In fact the now matters all the time.
So life is always a battle between the now and the future.
Trouble is it does not have to be a battle. We just learn to live in such mind states.

 

[Hourglass]

I saw a girl with a t shirt I loved more. "Just do nothing."

Amazing.

Honestly that is really good advice for many people.

Imagine how many lives would have been saved throughout history if certain historically well-known figures over centuries “did nothing” in unison. Is “doing nothing” what world peace is supposed to be like?

 

[Hourglass]

So life is always a battle between the now and the future.
Trouble is it does not have to be a battle. We just learn to live in such mind states.

Plus, people typically don’t know what to do with themselves when they are in the “middle” of now and the future, so they escape to either or.

Some people are habitual learners, INTPs most of all. I think learning is that “middle” mind state.

Some people stopped learning and are stuck with learned behaviors/habits.

 

[sushi]

energy storage problems

its probably more efficient to have outer space solar panels.