Why INTPs are the smartest and dumbest at the same time

[ZenRaiden]

First of all in MBTI it is kind of agreed that INTPs or some say INFPs are the most gifted intellectually.
By gifted we mean particular type of smarts.
Smarts that mean INTPs outperform most types in visible academic tasks and problem solving, as well as handling intellectual problems.
This kind of means in a world today where 99 percent of problems are intellectual problems, that require a lot of thinking INTPs are wired to be the bestest.
Introversion and as some say Ti means INTPs go logic first into everything. Its fairly convenient thing to do in a world where lots of problems worth solving are kind of logical.
Its a terrible tragedy if you have a brain like this and want to have functional social life.
But Ti pretty much can and does solve stuff.
Ne is great in using associative strategies. As Ti digs into stuff Ne branches out and so a lot of other types including other NT types can have a terrible time with dealing with blind spots. Ne kind of branches out and covers greater territory so if Ti works as a sharp blade dissecting things Ne works like a net that captures everything.
Makes for one hell of an headache, but INTPs have Si a perfect black box to capture everything and record it, so even when the mind cannot deal with stuff the Si box keeps and hoards all data, for no other reason, then, "JUST IN CASE" or "SOUNDS INTERESTING".
Fe is really the weakest spot for INTPs, but conversely its the odd advantage too.
Its like you have this person with giga brain that has the emotional bandwidth of neglected child.
You pretty much give them problem and they can solve it much easier than dealing with social stuff, so you kind of set them up by nature to solve problems. The emotional needs of INTPs are kind of simple.
Its not though important to dwell on simple mischaracterization though. I don't want to make fun of INTPs, but as a set up for solving intellectual problems their mind kind of is built for it.

So what is the catch of all this?
Well INTPs are in a world of 8 billion people who don't really think like them.
A world where each cog of giant civilization machinery is moved by human motives, human greed, human needs, human will, human expectations, and dreadful human connection.
So naturally the common unifying factor of all human world is the human soul.
And if there is one thing INTPs are not great at puzzling out is the human factor.
You know, everything human.

So what do INTPs really do in a world where all problems and puzzles come down to the very fact of "human."
It also kind of circles back to the age old fact that indeed INTPs need to puzzle out humans and themselves.
Now this problem gets to other types as well. INTJs, even ENTJs, and so on.
But I still think the most alien is the INTP brain.
We kind of struggle with human stuff on many levels.

And unfortunately today lots of problems are human problems.
Its not easy, and even MBTI types that are super adept at human stuff, can fail and burn themselves.

I think what I am trying to say is that we kind of often neglect the level of importance human problems have.
The more I understand psychology, I also see, how very little even experts know about human affairs and how we often don't realize how the world is predefined and glued together by human psyche.

It is also something, a subject completely ignored in schooling.
We kind of accept we understand ourselves and others through socializing.
But the reality is that human beings are kind of weird beings.
We are made by nature to adapt.
If you force a human being to adapt they can be anything, even a circus freak.

In modern world we tend to have a bias, that the more we adapt, the more capable we are, and the smarter we are.
Which is true.
But if we adapt all the time we kind of lose a lot of potential.
Most of our lives we are taught to follow, taught to be good, taught to be a certain way, and of course adapt.

SO I will leave with this vid. That reminds me that the more we adapt as humans we actually become more dumber.
There is a time where human smarts to adapt aren't as important as human capacity to adapt things to our will.
So there are two ways to adapt. Bend over or adapt things to your own. But we kind of are programmed to adapt to, not adapt things to. Which means the guys at the top of human hierarchy and often the high achievers are the ones that don't bend over, but adapt things to their own will. Not Earth shattering revelation, but think how many times you have to adapt to, instead of the reverse. In day to day life or overall.

 

[Black Rose]

Ti I think is internalized problem solving.
That is you can go into a cave and just think about problems.
Te is more hands-on, you cannot think unless you have the problem right in front of you.

@scorpiomover said Te is 3 steps deep well Ti is 10 steps deep.

That has always been my problem though.
I can solve any problem in front of me 3 deep but I cannot just sit and think.

I do not know what thinking 10 steps deep would be like except that it is part of the intelligence model I have developed. In the model, people use working memory to complete each step. I cannot use working memory, I can only use autobiographical.

When I think about it I became INFP because I could not solve my problems. ENTJ doesn't have poor externalized working memory. They do not dream about ideas they do their ideas, and make ideas real.

I have a lot of novel ideas (Ne) but cannot expand on them.
Fi is what I use to decide what to do with people.
I want to share and talk about ideas but am too alone to do so.
I cannot have ideas without expressing them.

A person with Te will say "What do I need to do now to get xyz".
As a dom function, they will "plan" moves ahead in that they will look at all environmental resources and prioritize them to get what they want.

I can do that but I cannot decide what is important, I just want to have a cool idea.
If I have a cool idea then I can work at it but it will be too hard to do because it is surrounded by other cool ideas that Te cannot do all at once.

Fi + Ne = I want to have a cool idea, that is what is important to me.

-

Fi + Ne = I want to have a cool idea, that is what is important to me.

Ne + Fi = I want to have as many cool ideas as possible.

Ti + Ne = I go into my head and think of the consequences of as many ideas as possible.

Ne + Ti = I have many ideas happening at once and I produce all consequences of each idea instantly.

Fi + Se = I see many things that I decide are aesthetically good or bad.

Se + Fi = I see many things that I want to experience as good and bad.

Ti + Se = I go into my head and think of the consequences of what can be done at this moment.

Se + Ti = I am in this moment and I must decide all consequences of what to do instantly.

Si + Te = I want to keep stable and solve all problems to keep it that way.

Te + Si = I want to solve all problems to keep things as stable as possible.

Si + Fe = I keep myself stable by keeping aligned with others.

Fe + Si = I keep as many people as stable as possible.

Ni + Fe = I see what will happen and know what people will do.

Fe + Ni = I see what people will do and know what others need to do.

Ni + Te = I see what will happen and work to solve that immediate problem.

Te + Ni = I see an immediate problem and what needs to be done to solve it.

 

[scorpiomover]

First of all in MBTI it is kind of agreed that INTPs or some say INFPs are the most gifted intellectually.
By gifted we mean particular type of smarts.
Smarts that mean INTPs outperform most types in visible academic tasks and problem solving, as well as handling intellectual problems.
This kind of means in a world today where 99 percent of problems are intellectual problems, that require a lot of thinking INTPs are wired to be the bestest.
Introversion and as some say Ti means INTPs go logic first into everything. Its fairly convenient thing to do in a world where lots of problems worth solving are kind of logical.
Its a terrible tragedy if you have a brain like this and want to have functional social life.
But Ti pretty much can and does solve stuff.
Ne is great in using associative strategies. As Ti digs into stuff Ne branches out and so a lot of other types including other NT types can have a terrible time with dealing with blind spots. Ne kind of branches out and covers greater territory so if Ti works as a sharp blade dissecting things Ne works like a net that captures everything.
Makes for one hell of an headache, but INTPs have Si a perfect black box to capture everything and record it, so even when the mind cannot deal with stuff the Si box keeps and hoards all data, for no other reason, then, "JUST IN CASE" or "SOUNDS INTERESTING".
Fe is really the weakest spot for INTPs, but conversely its the odd advantage too.
Its like you have this person with giga brain that has the emotional bandwidth of neglected child.
You pretty much give them problem and they can solve it much easier than dealing with social stuff, so you kind of set them up by nature to solve problems. The emotional needs of INTPs are kind of simple.
Its not though important to dwell on simple mischaracterization though. I don't want to make fun of INTPs, but as a set up for solving intellectual problems their mind kind of is built for it.

That's completely wrong. It's INTJs who are built for intellectual stuff. They're great at debates.

What Ne/Si is good at, is coming up with solutions that work for lots of different people.
What Ti/Fe is good at, is checking which solutions will work because of the solution, even when your staff are not all that competent.
So what Ti & Ne do really, really well, are come up with bulletproof solutions that will work for everyone.

So what is the catch of all this?
Well INTPs are in a world of 8 billion people who don't really think like them.
A world where each cog of giant civilization machinery is moved by human motives, human greed, human needs, human will, human expectations, and dreadful human connection.
So naturally the common unifying factor of all human world is the human soul.
And if there is one thing INTPs are not great at puzzling out is the human factor.
You know, everything human.

Since INTPs are really, really good at coming up with bulletproof solutions that will work for everyone, in real life, INTPs should all be billionaires.

But evolution/G-d wired INTPs to also be not that ambitious.

So there's a catch-22:

If the rest of humanity help us, then we help them solve the big problems of humanity.

If they don't help us, we won't help ourselves, and so we don't have a great time. But we also then don't help them solve the big problems of humanity, and so the rest of humanity have to deal with pandemics, financial crises, wars, climate change, etc, and suffer greatly.

So it's almost as if we're an evolutionary mutation, that is designed to make everything better for everyone else. If the rest of humanity don't help us, then we can't help them, and they suffer greatly for it.

 

[onesteptwostep]

So we if we combined it, we're literally in the middle, so average.

I thought mommy told me I was special, life is a lie

 

[ZenRaiden]

That's completely wrong. It's INTJs who are built for intellectual stuff. They're great at debates.

What Ne/Si is good at, is coming up with solutions that work for lots of different people.
What Ti/Fe is good at, is checking which solutions will work because of the solution, even when your staff are not all that competent.
So what Ti & Ne do really, really well, are come up with bulletproof solutions that will work for everyone.

Sometimes I clam up when I think of too specific goals. I tend to think generally.
But today people ask you nonsense questions like "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" vomit.

If they don't help us, we won't help ourselves, and so we don't have a great time. But we also then don't help them solve the big problems of humanity, and so the rest of humanity have to deal with pandemics, financial crises, wars, climate change, etc, and suffer greatly.

So it's almost as if we're an evolutionary mutation, that is designed to make everything better for everyone else. If the rest of humanity don't help us, then we can't help them, and they suffer greatly for it.

No one said anything like this before. But what is interesting I have heard something from gifted researcher.
What is interesting I have this vibe thing.
Good vibes make me good, bad vibes make me bad. I hate this about myself to be honest.
When I have good vibes I feel like I could move mountains.
Bad vibes and I turn into a acidic gremlin.

 

[ZenRaiden]

So we if we combined it, we're literally in the middle, so average.

I thought mommy told me I was special, life is a lie

Honestly I was in special ed classes. They thought I was retarded. No joke.

 

[sushi]

finding the right person to trust to work with is hard, you have to go through millions of trial and error.
its almost like dating. It is common to get backstabbed and betrayed many times.

anyway its mostly a sixth sense that most people dont have and overthinking problems.

 

[onesteptwostep]

So we if we combined it, we're literally in the middle, so average.

I thought mommy told me I was special, life is a lie

Honestly I was in special ed classes. They thought I was retarded. No joke.

Didn't you say you moved around a bit when you were young? I feel like that's the reason why, not that you were on a fault of your own making.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Didn't you say you moved around a bit when you were young? I feel like that's the reason why, not that you were on a fault of your own making.

Yeah 4 elementary schools, and 6 high schools.
I was actually depressed as a kid, had issues.
But, until about this year I used to kind of think I am at fault.
It took me a good year of self reflection to realize how screwed up my life was.
Not complaining, just facts. Had come to realization that my life kind of sucked.
I am actually life long underachiever. Up until recently I did not even care about that.
But there is actually many more reasons I was screwed. But that is too personal.

 

[Black Rose]

It's INTJs who are built for intellectual stuff. They're great at debates.

I can think like an INTJ only it would be like if you replace Ni with Ne - (Ne)(Te).

When you get that kind of combination tiny impossible things are possible.

But like Zen said it is not a singular goal. for infp or intp

in debates, the purpose is winning so yeah they can win debates.

but then intp is like "I need to think more" - "this or that makes xyz possible".

it was not that intp was going for something in particular but to resolve some kind of flaw in their thinking that the intj was like: "Here is the point, prove or disprove it".

if a gaol is attainable then Te will see it is possible, Ni will get you there.

in istj though Si will say: stability is the goal, use all powers of Te to keep it that way.

infp is like (Te gets me to any point in Ne, all Ne is evaluated as attainable or not, select whichever Ne is best for Te to use, but first decide if the NeTe goal is worth it -(Fi) )

intp is (all thoughts must be in order, Ne gives all reasons thoughts are not in order or can be in order, so Ti must know which ones those are)

intj and intp will go at it like this:

intp - what we are talking about must be in accordance with my ordered way of thinking, whatever you say must account for all things I have taken account of beforehand and if we are to talk then I need time to process all my thoughts so as to correctly reorder them meaning we may need to review many many things I know about.

intj - that is fine but if we want to attain a certain goal we need to decide what that is and what needs to be done to achieve it by all the steps and counter steps. if we do x we succeed if we do y we fail. we need to work our way around all contingencies. certain things are relevant and certain things are irrelevant.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Didn't you say you moved around a bit when you were young? I feel like that's the reason why, not that you were on a fault of your own making.

Yeah 4 elementary schools, and 6 high schools.
I was actually depressed as a kid, had issues.
But, until about this year I used to kind of think I am at fault.
It took me a good year of self reflection to realize how screwed up my life was.
Not complaining, just facts. Had come to realization that my life kind of sucked.
I am actually life long underachiever. Up until recently I did not even care about that.
But there is actually many more reasons I was screwed. But that is too personal.

I've talked about my own personal past on this forum, I've been in 4 elementary schools, 3 middle schools and 3 high schools, (even 2 diferent universities) so I understand where you are coming from.

The thing about moving a lot when you are young is that it messes up your identity development and that has prolonged consequences, such as anxiety.

Generally normal people who move even just have once have a hard time dealing with adjustment, but if you move almost every year, or maybe one every 2 years, it's usually something the average population will never come in on understanding.

Feeling rooted in a hometown or feeling togetherness is something the average person takes in for granted.
You've probably heard that this kind of upbringing allows you to have a variety of experiences, but this usually comes from people who've not lived in those chaotic upbringings, so this does no good to your own personal wellbeing.
I think though, there is a sense of understanding the world better, however, and in a sense there is a level of superiority I have over people who have not gone through the same experience. This isn't to say I'm better, but I think a wider experience allows you to think outside the group consensus.

 

[ZenRaiden]

The thing about moving a lot when you are young is that it messes up your identity development and that has prolonged consequences, such as anxiety.

I certainly had anxiety. Also my identity was kind of different. My experience completely shaped my perceptions and values differently.

Generally normal people who move even just have once have a hard time dealing with adjustment, but if you move almost every year, or maybe one every 2 years, it's usually something the average population will never come in on understanding.

It screwed me attachment style. I feel no need to be part of groups, or heavy need to have friends or romantic partners. I was quite a loner most of my life.
The idea to belonging is foreign concept for me.
It feels provincial.

You've probably heard that this kind of upbringing allows you to have a variety of experiences, but this usually comes from people who've not lived in those chaotic upbringings, so this does no good to your own personal wellbeing.

There were pros and cons. For me the trouble is I have no idea what normal is.
So its hard for me to miss it. Because I really don't know what I missed. I just know that one life. My life personally was pretty crappy. Despite all the great things.
I got to experience things most people don't. I remember kids not believing me I lived in US, telling me I made it up. Some kids constantly asking how was it. I often wondered why they think its so special. For me it was sort of ordinary experience.
I viewed it as what it is. I did not see it as special kind of deal. I saw it as part of life.
Albeit unusual part of life.

I think though, there is a sense of understanding the world better, however, and in a sense there is a level of superiority I have over people who have not gone through the same experience. This isn't to say I'm better, but I think a wider experience allows you to think outside the group consensus.

There certainly is wider scope of experiences. I think the experiences certainly shifted my perceptions towards being more open and understanding of differences, and culture.