SpaceYeti
Prolific Member
QED
-
OK, it's on.
Why has obesity become the norm?
- Thread starter Cavallier
- Start date
Lobstrich
Prolific Member
Sorry OP.. Couldn't be bothered to read your post. I'm sick and tired of all the the attention on "Low fat" - "Loose Weight" stuff..
Being underweight is just a large a problem. I'm very, very underweight myself. I'd sure enjoy some tips on how to increase my weight besides "Eat beans! Eat pasta!" Etc. I know this already, seeing I've been to culinary school and you learn about diet.
I took a test and and my "fat mass" counted to 5.5 where 22-26 was a healthy weight
I can literally say "This is pure muscle" When I grab my arm. Because I really have NO fat on my body.
I'm almost 190CM (Do the " math yourself) And I weigh 50-55kg which is 100 to 110 pounds..
Which is not alot.
So end of wall; my point is that I think underweight people should get some help as well. I sure don't enjoy being asked If I'm anorexic, or having my body give up before time due to being too underweight.
Being underweight is just a large a problem. I'm very, very underweight myself. I'd sure enjoy some tips on how to increase my weight besides "Eat beans! Eat pasta!" Etc. I know this already, seeing I've been to culinary school and you learn about diet.
I took a test and and my "fat mass" counted to 5.5 where 22-26 was a healthy weight
I can literally say "This is pure muscle" When I grab my arm. Because I really have NO fat on my body.
I'm almost 190CM (Do the " math yourself) And I weigh 50-55kg which is 100 to 110 pounds..
Which is not alot.
So end of wall; my point is that I think underweight people should get some help as well. I sure don't enjoy being asked If I'm anorexic, or having my body give up before time due to being too underweight.
Beans and pasta? How about making at least one meal a day from donuts, ice cream and chocolate milk? Throw in some cake and cookies while you're at it. And if that doesn't work, just start deep-frying all of the above. The trick is to stop after having gained enough weight but before the adult-onset diabetes comes along.
Mmmm... deep fried chocolate milk....
Gather_Wanderer
Space Jokes.
Depends on economic class, really. I have somewhat been keeping track of this very idea for the last two months or so and I've found, that in a demographic with lower average income (In relation to a selected surrounding area), a number as high as 2 of 3 people are obese/bordering on obese. Demographics with higher average income, the numbers seemed to be much lower, as low as...about 1 in 5 or 6. Obviously these are statistics I mentally note but it's been interesting for me to see this for myself.
The area I work in...Well actually one day at work, I spent some amount of time counting a sample size of 50 or so people and, out of the sample group, close to 40 were legitimately obese, all assumptions about appearance being accurate.
Education likely plays a part in this but I can't exactly walk around and ask every chubster how far they've gotten in school.
I do have a theory (as everyone else) on this but I think I need a bit more information before I have a solid idea to test. Interesting bit earlier, someone posted I'm too lazy to scroll down and quote, about decades past and the lesser prevalence of obesity. With the obvious emergence and total domination of fast food in the average life of today...Is it so apparently Mcdonald's fault then? I don't know...
It's funny...I practically beg for an extra 10-15 pounds to not lose irritatingly fast on a day-to-day basis. I mean, I'm in good, athletic shape and all but, with goals of my own and all......You know..
The area I work in...Well actually one day at work, I spent some amount of time counting a sample size of 50 or so people and, out of the sample group, close to 40 were legitimately obese, all assumptions about appearance being accurate.
Education likely plays a part in this but I can't exactly walk around and ask every chubster how far they've gotten in school.
I do have a theory (as everyone else) on this but I think I need a bit more information before I have a solid idea to test. Interesting bit earlier, someone posted I'm too lazy to scroll down and quote, about decades past and the lesser prevalence of obesity. With the obvious emergence and total domination of fast food in the average life of today...Is it so apparently Mcdonald's fault then? I don't know...
It's funny...I practically beg for an extra 10-15 pounds to not lose irritatingly fast on a day-to-day basis. I mean, I'm in good, athletic shape and all but, with goals of my own and all......You know..
Anthile
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I think he was talking about gaining weight, not suicide by food. I guess the best way to do that while not killing yourself is to add high quality vegetable oil to your meals. A single teaspoon of olive oil alone has about 90kcal (at least, that's what my bottle says). Not to mention the obvious health benefits like the reduced liability to heart diseases.
Lobstrich
Prolific Member
Useless reply..
I don't want to eat candy just to gain weight. I don't want to destroy my body and health just to gain weight.
Besides. I already eat alot of unhealthy food. It doesn't help. I just have extreme metabolism.
EDIT: Oh and you might want to read up on some diet. Pasta and beans is good, healthy food.
Farion
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First off, I think it's interesting to note that a long time ago, obesity wasn't the norm, instead it was desired. Obesity equaled food and food equaled money. In one way of looking at it, modern obesity could be a reaction to millenia of the belief that fat was good. Of course, I don't really believe that, but it is interesting.
I didn't read all three pages, but I think there are two very simple explanations to this: First, eating food is much easier, tastier, and more compulsive than exercising. Combine that with the second explanation, food is cheap, and you've got obesity on a wide scale. Of course then you can throw in a little bit of television and a little bit of blind social networking, and you've got A LOT of obesity.
This is even partially supported by the abstract: as Chile entered into free trade agreements, which caused food to be cheaper, obesity rates rose. I'm guessing that this was also paralleled by the rise in technology (the dates of the changes slip my mind at the moment).
I think the compulsive part of eating is a big part of it, too. Haven't you ever walked by the pantry, not particularly hungry but not completely full? Then you see the potato chip bag and... mmm... they taste so good. You know they're bad but they taste so good. I'll just eat a few. "You can't eat just one" is probably the among the only true bits of advertising. Even after you're full, it's too difficult to put the bag away, so it just sits there. And you eat another. And another. Et cetera.
Now that probably isn't true for everyone, but I know that's true for me, and I'm rail thin and I consider myself to be well adjusted (I hope), so I can only imagine what it could be like with slightly different circumstances.
I didn't read all three pages, but I think there are two very simple explanations to this: First, eating food is much easier, tastier, and more compulsive than exercising. Combine that with the second explanation, food is cheap, and you've got obesity on a wide scale. Of course then you can throw in a little bit of television and a little bit of blind social networking, and you've got A LOT of obesity.
This is even partially supported by the abstract: as Chile entered into free trade agreements, which caused food to be cheaper, obesity rates rose. I'm guessing that this was also paralleled by the rise in technology (the dates of the changes slip my mind at the moment).
I think the compulsive part of eating is a big part of it, too. Haven't you ever walked by the pantry, not particularly hungry but not completely full? Then you see the potato chip bag and... mmm... they taste so good. You know they're bad but they taste so good. I'll just eat a few. "You can't eat just one" is probably the among the only true bits of advertising. Even after you're full, it's too difficult to put the bag away, so it just sits there. And you eat another. And another. Et cetera.
Now that probably isn't true for everyone, but I know that's true for me, and I'm rail thin and I consider myself to be well adjusted (I hope), so I can only imagine what it could be like with slightly different circumstances.
lucyintheskies
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The western diet includes chemicals that did not exist 40 years ago - high fructose corn syrup, trans fats, artificial sweeteners. Our bodies do not process these products in the same manner as traditional food (i.e. substances which our bodies evolved to digest).
In addition to frankenfoods, agri-pimp marketing has fueled the growth of the snack food industry. I am older than most of the other members of this forum. When I was a kid, potato chips or packaged cookies were consumed as an occasional treat and not an everyday staple.
Add cheap, chemically altered snack carbs to a population in which at least 30% carries a variation in the FTO gene and you have a recipe for metabolic disaster.
article on genetics and obesity
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108141509.htm
EDIT
One more thing - antibiotics make livestock FATTER on less feed. We've had 2 generations of pediatricians who prescribe candy flavored Amoxicillin by the gallon.
In addition to frankenfoods, agri-pimp marketing has fueled the growth of the snack food industry. I am older than most of the other members of this forum. When I was a kid, potato chips or packaged cookies were consumed as an occasional treat and not an everyday staple.
Add cheap, chemically altered snack carbs to a population in which at least 30% carries a variation in the FTO gene and you have a recipe for metabolic disaster.
article on genetics and obesity
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108141509.htm
EDIT
One more thing - antibiotics make livestock FATTER on less feed. We've had 2 generations of pediatricians who prescribe candy flavored Amoxicillin by the gallon.
wadlez
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The question is: "Why has obesity become the norm?"
And everyone is answering and pointing to differing reasons ranging from genetics to emotions.
The problem is the assumption of this question, that is that obesity has become the norm.
For starters the BMI (body mass index), which is the governments measure for being overweight is seriously flawed. It is calculated by taking your height, putting that against your weight and thats it. It doesn't take into account muscle mass, bone structure or anything and has been shown to be ridiculous (see pen and teller bullshit or try it for yourself).
If you take me for instance. I work out allot with weights and have done since i was a teenager, I can bench 120kgs, have a 6pack and very little body fat. According to the BMI I am overweight. My friends who are also ripped gym junkies with no body fat are also classified as overweight (which is hilarious to be told this when looking at them).
Not only is the BMI flawed but there is also a skewed view of what constitutes obese. The label of obese, which means excessively overweight, has been given to people with basically their expected genetic body fat (a little chubby). We have unrealistic ideals and compare ourselves against an impossible imagined standard (which many beat themselves up over and strive for).
People also have unsubstantiated beliefs that being slightly overweight is a health problem, which is contrary to actual evidence saying otherwise (which is unpopular). EG http://www.lesliebeck.com/page.php?id=2463&type=art (took 2 secs to find).
This view also answers the question of how can weight loss products, gyms, dieting etc of grown to be such a massive industry which is everywhere yet there is still more fat people than ever.
If there is an increase in the average amount of body fat, its definitely small, insignificant and not worthy of the mass hysteria and title of an epidemic (or to be seen as the norm)
For further reading on this see:
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/h/2535-an-epidemic-of-obesity-myths
or watch this penn and teller: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrc20_111-eat-this_tech
A really good question to ask is: Why is the idea of an obesity epidemic 1) Intuitively accepted as true, and 2) So popular?
This is a really good thing to think about and there is some good psychology to be learnt from this.
It basically stems from:
Peoples drive to find reasons to demonize corporations and capitalism.
Older generations desire to to find fault with future generations to maintain positive self esteem, (See http://www.physorg.com/news202380667.html).
Individuals need to maintain high self esteem by making unfounded criticisms on the general population (How many of you reading this are fat? If your skinny you probably accepted obesity as the norm because your special).
An emerging form of elitism based on eating really healthy (and looking down on others not so enlightened with good eating habits).
And everyone is answering and pointing to differing reasons ranging from genetics to emotions.
The problem is the assumption of this question, that is that obesity has become the norm.
For starters the BMI (body mass index), which is the governments measure for being overweight is seriously flawed. It is calculated by taking your height, putting that against your weight and thats it. It doesn't take into account muscle mass, bone structure or anything and has been shown to be ridiculous (see pen and teller bullshit or try it for yourself).
If you take me for instance. I work out allot with weights and have done since i was a teenager, I can bench 120kgs, have a 6pack and very little body fat. According to the BMI I am overweight. My friends who are also ripped gym junkies with no body fat are also classified as overweight (which is hilarious to be told this when looking at them).
Not only is the BMI flawed but there is also a skewed view of what constitutes obese. The label of obese, which means excessively overweight, has been given to people with basically their expected genetic body fat (a little chubby). We have unrealistic ideals and compare ourselves against an impossible imagined standard (which many beat themselves up over and strive for).
People also have unsubstantiated beliefs that being slightly overweight is a health problem, which is contrary to actual evidence saying otherwise (which is unpopular). EG http://www.lesliebeck.com/page.php?id=2463&type=art (took 2 secs to find).
This view also answers the question of how can weight loss products, gyms, dieting etc of grown to be such a massive industry which is everywhere yet there is still more fat people than ever.
If there is an increase in the average amount of body fat, its definitely small, insignificant and not worthy of the mass hysteria and title of an epidemic (or to be seen as the norm)
For further reading on this see:
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/h/2535-an-epidemic-of-obesity-myths
or watch this penn and teller: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrc20_111-eat-this_tech
A really good question to ask is: Why is the idea of an obesity epidemic 1) Intuitively accepted as true, and 2) So popular?
This is a really good thing to think about and there is some good psychology to be learnt from this.
It basically stems from:
Peoples drive to find reasons to demonize corporations and capitalism.
Older generations desire to to find fault with future generations to maintain positive self esteem, (See http://www.physorg.com/news202380667.html).
Individuals need to maintain high self esteem by making unfounded criticisms on the general population (How many of you reading this are fat? If your skinny you probably accepted obesity as the norm because your special).
An emerging form of elitism based on eating really healthy (and looking down on others not so enlightened with good eating habits).
SpaceYeti
Prolific Member
... You're fat, aren't you?
2) I can't claim it's popular so much as simply obviously true. You attack the BMI, but how about the medical doctors who pronounce you as obese? Sure, you could have a high weight to height ratio and not be effected negatively health wise. However, there is a corollation, and those who aren't effected are the exceptions, who's high mass is muscle or something, not fat. Yes, the BMI is flawed, but that doesn't mean real obesity, obesity caused by a large quantity of fat, isn't common or bad for you.
1) Because there are a lot of fat people, who are objectively less healthy due to having the amount of fat they have than they would be if they did not have the fat, and I'm not talking about slightly fat, I'm talking about medically obese.
2) I can't claim it's popular so much as simply obviously true. You attack the BMI, but how about the medical doctors who pronounce you as obese? Sure, you could have a high weight to height ratio and not be effected negatively health wise. However, there is a corollation, and those who aren't effected are the exceptions, who's high mass is muscle or something, not fat. Yes, the BMI is flawed, but that doesn't mean real obesity, obesity caused by a large quantity of fat, isn't common or bad for you.
snafupants
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there should be more people like morgan spurlock with equally strong death wishes who would be willing to essentially recreate super size me with various fast food restaurants and one control, for experimental purposes. perhaps we could enlist death row inmates. of course, the menu would have to be sampled in full, none of this disingenuous nonsense with salads and turkey flatbread sandwiches, no sir: get your hands dirty and grab the kfc double down or wendys baconator. those people would be titanic and morbidly gasping up the stairs half way through. oh, that already happens. anybody want a big mac?
Gather_Wanderer
Space Jokes.
Why did I have this exact idea just a week ago?
wadlez
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"there should be more people like morgan spurlock with equally strong death wishes who would be willing to essentially recreate super size me with various fast food restaurants and one control, for experimental purposes. perhaps we could enlist death row inmates. of course, the menu would have to be sampled in full, none of this disingenuous nonsense with salads and turkey flatbread sandwiches, no sir: get your hands dirty and grab the kfc double down or wendys baconator. those people would be titanic and morbidly gasping up the stairs half way through. oh, that already happens. anybody want a big mac?"
They did!
"The documentary begins by mentioning a similar experiment done on Vermont prison inmates in 1967. The inmates were grossly overfed with the purpose of studying the hormonal changes that happen when a person becomes obese. The prisoners who signed up were promised an earlier release.
Each inmate was supposed to increase their body weight by 25 percent. However, as the experiment progressed, it turned out that no matter how high the energy intake got, some of the inmates could not reach their targets. Despite eating and eating, they just didn't gain enough weight. One of them could not increase his body weight more than 18%, even though his daily calorie intake reached a whopping 10,000 kcal. "
http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-are-thin-people-not-fat.html
They did!
"The documentary begins by mentioning a similar experiment done on Vermont prison inmates in 1967. The inmates were grossly overfed with the purpose of studying the hormonal changes that happen when a person becomes obese. The prisoners who signed up were promised an earlier release.
Each inmate was supposed to increase their body weight by 25 percent. However, as the experiment progressed, it turned out that no matter how high the energy intake got, some of the inmates could not reach their targets. Despite eating and eating, they just didn't gain enough weight. One of them could not increase his body weight more than 18%, even though his daily calorie intake reached a whopping 10,000 kcal. "
http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-are-thin-people-not-fat.html
Anthile
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BigApplePi
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Quality or quantity?
I suppose as long as one's body gets the minimum requirements, low quality and low quantity has a healthy chance. After all, taking in more than the body needs means the body has to deal with all that excess. Compare dealing with excess to dealing with poison. Stressful and therefore unhealthy.
What would it take for junk food to be unhealthy? Poisonous? Junk food would actually have to destroy something.
Jean Paul
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Through I have yet to met a obese person with a effecient amount of intellgence to even realise what's wrong. The problem is in the pyschological aspects of people. Not the food,but yes people should still watch what they eat and work out more.
Methuselah
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The more refined carbs are substituted for real food and addictive additives like MSG are used, the fatter people will get.
Y'all, no one gets fat eating a diet of protein, natural fats, and veggies. Unfortunately, a multi-decade war has been waged on the American diet.
Y'all, no one gets fat eating a diet of protein, natural fats, and veggies. Unfortunately, a multi-decade war has been waged on the American diet.
Goku
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using this part of the quoted part of the OP to launch my diatribe:
I want to tackle this idea head-on, the emotional aspect of eating, because I think it is severely underrated by the author of this article.
It doesn't "just" mean that their feelings influence their eating habits. There is a HUGE problem going on. HUGE. Denial is just the beginning. Let me give you an example.
Let's say a guy really really wants a 6 pack, for whatever reason. Or, a girl really really wants to lose 10 pounds, who doesn't? Yet, neither of them can put down that twinkie at midnight.
^somewhere in the brain, the rationalization of two opposing ideas get synthesized, for sure there is some cognitive dissonance going on... on the one hand, "I want the positive benefits of a great body" (future), on the other hand, "I want the delectable taste of this Twinkie" (right now).
It is the classic you can't have your cake and eat it too. People fool themselves to think that they really want a nice body-- when in actuality they just really delude themselves to think so, and are in denial about what's going on in their brain.
If some emotional issue, depression or what not, is acting like someone has a gun to your head, forcing you to down that Twinkie, preventing you from achieving the body you've always wanted, then there's something seriously wrong inside your head. If you simultaneously reach for that Twinkie, while knowing that you also want a perfect body, knowing that the Twinkie is a step back, knowing full well you're not going to exercise to burn it off... you have to eventually admit to yourself that you are self-loathing, self-destructive... you HAVE to admit that THIS is really what you want. You want to be fat. You want to make unhealthy choices because you want to stay the way you are.
It all starts with denial, and overcoming denial.
How bad do you really want that six pack? If you want it, you'll get it. So that, if you don't have it, you must ask yourself, did you really want it in the first place?
Consciously ask yourself before you chew that Twinkie, "would I rather have this Twinkie or a nice body?"
So that, if you eat the Twinkie, at least you're being honest that you're willing to throw away all the nice things that come along with having a nice body, for that momentary feeling of sugary goodness...
In this sense, I see all fat people who complain about being fat as illogical. I can respect the fat happy people who don't care about being fat.
However, I don't understand the desire to be fat. So many good things come from having a nice body. You feel better, more confidence. Other people treat you better, though this is superficial.
I understand the joy and pleasure of eating. But, eating more than one needs to sustain life represents serious mental problems.
What do people prioritize in life? Your body should be #1. It is truly the only thing, other than your mind, that you have total control over. Humans spend a lot of time and energy trying to gain a sense of control through their environment, and fail to take control of themselves.
A great body does not only represent a superficial sense of narcissism, but it also can represent a sound and clear mind.
I think the majority of obese/over-weight people have a "serious" mental condition. The fat-happy ones are outliers, and I don't mean to offend those. But, I assume the vast majority of overweight people do not wish to be this way.
The epidemic, in my opinion, is one of mass denial-- denial of what people really want. A nice body takes hard work. So, maybe in conclusion, what people really want is an easy existence. A lazy existence.
I do also recognize that being fat, prima facie, also represents a very dark black hole that is difficult to dig yourself out from. If you have never experienced the great things that come along with being in great health, it is also very difficult to strive for that feeling that you have never experienced.
I really wish I could help fat people. There will never be a magic pill or surgery that will work. Because a person has to actually WANT IT first. And, if they want it, it will happen. If they take a shortcut, they will also forever be stuck with whatever mental block that kept them from the goal in the first place.
I want to tackle this idea head-on, the emotional aspect of eating, because I think it is severely underrated by the author of this article.
It doesn't "just" mean that their feelings influence their eating habits. There is a HUGE problem going on. HUGE. Denial is just the beginning. Let me give you an example.
Let's say a guy really really wants a 6 pack, for whatever reason. Or, a girl really really wants to lose 10 pounds, who doesn't? Yet, neither of them can put down that twinkie at midnight.
^somewhere in the brain, the rationalization of two opposing ideas get synthesized, for sure there is some cognitive dissonance going on... on the one hand, "I want the positive benefits of a great body" (future), on the other hand, "I want the delectable taste of this Twinkie" (right now).
It is the classic you can't have your cake and eat it too. People fool themselves to think that they really want a nice body-- when in actuality they just really delude themselves to think so, and are in denial about what's going on in their brain.
If some emotional issue, depression or what not, is acting like someone has a gun to your head, forcing you to down that Twinkie, preventing you from achieving the body you've always wanted, then there's something seriously wrong inside your head. If you simultaneously reach for that Twinkie, while knowing that you also want a perfect body, knowing that the Twinkie is a step back, knowing full well you're not going to exercise to burn it off... you have to eventually admit to yourself that you are self-loathing, self-destructive... you HAVE to admit that THIS is really what you want. You want to be fat. You want to make unhealthy choices because you want to stay the way you are.
It all starts with denial, and overcoming denial.
How bad do you really want that six pack? If you want it, you'll get it. So that, if you don't have it, you must ask yourself, did you really want it in the first place?
Consciously ask yourself before you chew that Twinkie, "would I rather have this Twinkie or a nice body?"
So that, if you eat the Twinkie, at least you're being honest that you're willing to throw away all the nice things that come along with having a nice body, for that momentary feeling of sugary goodness...
In this sense, I see all fat people who complain about being fat as illogical. I can respect the fat happy people who don't care about being fat.
However, I don't understand the desire to be fat. So many good things come from having a nice body. You feel better, more confidence. Other people treat you better, though this is superficial.
I understand the joy and pleasure of eating. But, eating more than one needs to sustain life represents serious mental problems.
What do people prioritize in life? Your body should be #1. It is truly the only thing, other than your mind, that you have total control over. Humans spend a lot of time and energy trying to gain a sense of control through their environment, and fail to take control of themselves.
A great body does not only represent a superficial sense of narcissism, but it also can represent a sound and clear mind.
I think the majority of obese/over-weight people have a "serious" mental condition. The fat-happy ones are outliers, and I don't mean to offend those. But, I assume the vast majority of overweight people do not wish to be this way.
The epidemic, in my opinion, is one of mass denial-- denial of what people really want. A nice body takes hard work. So, maybe in conclusion, what people really want is an easy existence. A lazy existence.
I do also recognize that being fat, prima facie, also represents a very dark black hole that is difficult to dig yourself out from. If you have never experienced the great things that come along with being in great health, it is also very difficult to strive for that feeling that you have never experienced.
I really wish I could help fat people. There will never be a magic pill or surgery that will work. Because a person has to actually WANT IT first. And, if they want it, it will happen. If they take a shortcut, they will also forever be stuck with whatever mental block that kept them from the goal in the first place.