Who started this whole anti-evolution mess?

[NormannTheDoorman]

I would consider myself a Christian, and I do believe that some higher being exists. I consider myself a late comer to the workings of evolution and its processes since I grew up in a massive anti-evolution community. Public education on Guam sucks, so my parent(s) ended up sending me to a private school which is unsurprisingly a Christian private school. I was told that evolution is wrong, and that Darwin said that his theory was bunk on his death bed.

Only a few years ago did I bother reading external sources. I sort of understand it but I am behind. It still bothers me to this day that they can't seem to accept it as a valid and sound theory.

So I am wondering

Where did this whole mess start?

What can we do to fix it?

Should this thread go to politics and history?

 

[Pyropyro]

Where did this whole mess start?

I guess when Darwin published the On the Origin of Species

What can we do to fix it?

Perhaps if we could simply tell people that Science doesn't necessarily threaten their belief systems then it would go away. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. People react strongly to things that threaten their way of life.

If Science has a voice it would say:

Look guys, this is the best explanation we have so far. If you have a better explanation and have the necessary evidence to back it up then let's hear about it. Otherwise, let's use these principles to help advance mankind.

Should this thread go to politics and history?

*Shrugs*

 

[Base groove]

The first step is to understand evolution.

Prerequisites: basic knowledge of genes and alleles, understanding of traits, phenotypes and genotypes, natural selection, relative fitness, predation, speciation, earth and atmospheric sciences,

Origin of Species is a decent book to read but it's not so well-written. Probably an ESTJ or ENTJ was Darwin.

It doesn't matter what he had to say about his own theory at any point in time really. What matters is it's still accepted as a basic framework for the mechanisms of speciation today, 150 years later.

 

[Jennywocky]

As far as Darwin's type goes, I found this compilation of his life and behavior/attitudes interesting (the writer sources some of it and claims to have read over forty books about Darwin, including a lot of his original letters):

http://www.aboutdarwin.com/darwin/whowas.html

Darwin also never did recant on his death bed. He DID seem to be aware of the hubbub his ideas would raise and held off on publication for some years, until Alfred Russel Wallace went to publish, so they published jointly. But he seemed to have shifted from a more theistic to more agnostic position over his lifetime, and the "Lady Hope" anecdote seems to have not happened. Interestingly here's an actual Creationist site explaining this and why Creationists should not be using this argument when debating with evolutionists:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/03/31/darwins-deathbed-conversion-legend

Raised in the more conservative US Protestant beliefs, I was kind of surprised when I heard that the official Catholic position on evolution is general acceptance (in the vein of theistic evolution) -- such a view is considered anathema, it seems, among the Baptists here and much of the Evangelical style congregations. It's most due to the bent towards literalism in Biblical reading, which ends up pitting creationism against naturalism, so to accept evolution necessarily means to not accept Christian theism. They have kind of painted themselves into a corner and, being forced to choose between one or the other, will of course choose God and ignore any evidence for evolution.

This is exactly the same issue I have with many in my family; they just are not receptive. Many were taught that accepting evolution means believing there is no god overseeing the world, that this means "man came from monkeys," that natural selection is a cruel random process, and that many of the social ills in existence come from people believing themselves to be animals rather than specifically designed by a loving creator. So you see, they're rather arguing 'backwards' -- from the possible ramifications backwards, rather than from the evidence forwards. You can't force them to examine and accept evidence and the ramifications of the evidence, if they're already rejecting what they believe are the ramifications of an evolutionistic worldview.

 

[Cognisant]

What can we do to fix it?

What do you mean by that?

There's extensive fossil evidence for natural selection, selective breeding programs demonstrate that it's a very real phenomenon, microbial life can even evolve in laboratory conditions in a matter of weeks, to say that natural selection dosen't exist is just absurd.

I don't know if you are for or against the theory if natural selection being taught in schools but personally I think it dosen't matter either way because it's practically irrefutable so any religious group that stands by their creationist beliefs is merely attacking their own credibility.

 

[Jennywocky]

What do you mean by that?

There's extensive fossil evidence for natural selection, selective breeding programs demonstrate that it's a very real phenomenon, microbial life can even evolve in laboratory conditions in a matter of weeks, to say that natural selection dosen't exist is just absurd.

I don't know if you are for or against the theory if natural selection being taught in schools but personally I think it dosen't matter either way because it's practically irrefutable so any religious group that stands by their creationist beliefs is merely attacking their own credibility.

...If only people were sane.
Most of our southern states here in the US seem anything but.

Pretty much there, it's

when there actually isn't one.
The information is not being taught in a way that conveys how "solid" the case is.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Where did this whole mess start?

The mess is very old indeed, and it has far more to do with the insecurities of people than the religious systems themselves. Don't focus on that, it's a waste of time.

What can we do to fix it?

Become as educated as possible. Don't confuse teleology with science. Teach others. Be compassionate in your teaching (e.g. telling someone "I'm right, you're wrong, can't you just accept you're an idiot" doesn't really work).

A great many people lack the imagination and were parented by very narrow-minded and frightened people. So, a great many people find it hard to consider things like 1) the sun doesn't "rise" at the same time for everyone, 2) maybe there isn't gravity in "heaven" and what the heck does that mean?, 3) maybe the Bible isn't a history book, etc.

So, go easy on them. But, once you've freed yourself from the chains of your own bondage, continue to look for new chains that you hadn't noticed before, and, see if you can find ways to get others to recognize their own chains and that they have the keys to free themselves.

 

[Pyropyro]

...If only people were sane.
Most of our southern states here in the US seem anything but.

Pretty much there, it's

when there actually isn't one.
The information is not being taught in a way that conveys how "solid" the case is.

I don't exactly like their approach but... how much do I need to pay to get a Triceratops to work at my farm?

 

[Jennywocky]

I have a soft spot in my heart for Triceratops; it's been my favorite dinosaur since I was little. Curse evolution and the geological periods that ensured we would never be together!

“I know that my true friend will appear after my death, and my dinosaur died before I was born.” ~Tanaka Katsumi

 

[Base groove]

I have a soft spot in my heart for Triceratops; it's been my favorite dinosaur since I was little. Curse evolution and the geological periods that ensured we would never be together!

The triceratops' skull resembles a giant, severely penetrating sex toy to me....

but that's just what eye see

 

[Pyropyro]

The triceratops' skull resembles a giant, severely penetrating sex toy to me....

but that's just what eye see

Well if you have three holes down there then you really need to see a doctor.

 

[Base groove]

Well if you have three holes down there then you really need to see a doctor.

Yeah, if you limit your sex toy usage to one person at a time...
gawsh.

This f/n guy... (points a casual thumb at Pyro)

 

[Jennywocky]

The triceratops' skull resembles a giant, severely penetrating sex toy to me....

but that's just what eye see

Our relationship is multi-faceted.
(You should see what he can do with his tongue.)

... uh... sorry. Derail.

 

[NormannTheDoorman]

I don't know if you are for or against the theory if natural selection being taught in schools but personally I think it dosen't matter either way because it's practically irrefutable so any religious group that stands by their creationist beliefs is merely attacking their own credibility.

I am pretty sure I make it clear that I am supporting natural selection.

 

[WookieeB]

What do you mean by that?

There's extensive fossil evidence for natural selection, selective breeding programs demonstrate that it's a very real phenomenon, microbial life can even evolve in laboratory conditions in a matter of weeks, to say that natural selection dosen't exist is just absurd.

I don't know if you are for or against the theory if natural selection being taught in schools but personally I think it dosen't matter either way because it's practically irrefutable so any religious group that stands by their creationist beliefs is merely attacking their own credibility.

I think defining the terms is important. "Evolution" can have many meanings; context is important.

In the statements above, is "natural selection" = "evolution" ?

What groups or religions say that "natural selection" doesn't exist? What groups/religions are against "natural selection" being taught in schools?

For the record, I agree that natural selection exists and can be demonstrated. To what extent natural selection affects life is the question.

Also, Triceratops are pretty cool.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Some kids don't even know that milk comes from cows. The problem is that we are not as surrounded by nature as before. We need to also develope observation skills that Darwin had. Once a person has those abilities to connect the dots the theory comes as natural. Its harder to understand it if is something unnatural. Also the theory should be taught like a big schematic model and taught step by step. Darwin did not come to the conclusions in a day. So one cannot expect a person to understand the theory in a day. Most people do not study the theory in schools at all. At least I never studied evolution theory in school.

 

[deadpixel]

I would consider myself a Christian, and I do believe that some higher being exists. I consider myself a late comer to the workings of evolution and its processes since I grew up in a massive anti-evolution community. Public education on Guam sucks, so my parent(s) ended up sending me to a private school which is unsurprisingly a Christian private school. I was told that evolution is wrong, and that Darwin said that his theory was bunk on his death bed.

Only a few years ago did I bother reading external sources. I sort of understand it but I am behind. It still bothers me to this day that they can't seem to accept it as a valid and sound theory.

So I am wondering

Where did this whole mess start?

What can we do to fix it?

Should this thread go to politics and history?

Try going to a private catholic school where in one class(religion) they are teaching anti evolution, and then you go to the next period class(science) where they teach you about evolution...

 

[Steven Gerrard]

Just because two truths seem irreconcilable doesn't mean they are.

Just as someone in this thread advocated the scientific position as "this is our best explanation- we are open to another". Try not to let the paradox get in the way of Christian faith, or science. Two incomplete as of yet body's of knowledge. Revealed and deduced.

 

[Pyropyro]

Just because two truths seem irreconcilable doesn't mean they are.

Just as someone in this thread advocated the scientific position as "this is our best explanation- we are open to another". Try not to let the paradox get in the way of Christian faith, or science. Two incomplete as of yet body's of knowledge. Revealed and deduced.

The story of my academic life so far