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Which Science?

James Black

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In college for CompSci, I'm hoping to find a science Major with worthwhile PhD research prospects: I hope to go for a PhD/MD if I'm lucky enough. (although I'm perfectly understanding of the difficulty and realize I may end up having to go PhD or MD first, then return for the other if I want to continue my education)

Anyway, the point is just what exactly it is I think I'd enjoy. But first, is there any good way to find out which sciences I find interesting? Even one of those lame online quizzes could be useful, tbh.

And second: I think I'd enjoy researching fixing human diseases that have troubled scientists for years, or researching improving human life through body improvements: say, more realistic and/or feature-full prosthetic limbs (say, 20/5 prosthetic eyes?), etc. Also, I'm interested in the idea of bio-nanotechnology: creating little computerized blood cells to do the job(s) that are standard, original blood cells can't do properly. I think the best answer to AIDS cure/prevention, and faster Cancer recognition/curing, is definitely bio-nanotechnology.
 

James Black

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Thanks, this looks to be close to what I would enjoy doing. ^.^
 

Architectonic

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And second: I think I'd enjoy researching fixing human diseases that have troubled scientists for years

This is the most noble choice, and the one I hope you choose. By the way, there is a lot of future scope for computer scientists working in medicine.

(Note that to me computer scientist =! programmer. A programmer could merely be an IT specialist, whereas a computer scientist has to know a lot more, specifically with regards to building scientific models)

Also, I'm interested in the idea of bio-nanotechnology: creating little computerized blood cells to do the job(s) that are standard, original blood cells can't do properly. I think the best answer to AIDS cure/prevention, and faster Cancer recognition/curing, is definitely bio-nanotechnology.

Seems like you have bought a lot of myths related to nanotechnology.

Remember, nanotechnology still has to follow the laws of thermodynamics.
 

James Black

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This is the most noble choice, and the one I hope you choose.
My INFJ GF and INFP friend are rubbing off on me: I'm naturally kind and courteous to everybody I meet, but more and more recently I'm starting to think about "the bigger picture," ie Humanity as a whole.

By the way, there is a lot of future scope for computer scientists working in medicine.

I still intend to follow through with at least a Bachelor in CompSci. The field is somewhat fun, but thus far less engaging than I had hoped. However, I can't easily let myself throw away a few years of studying, and given the knowledge of people I've met at a Usergroup I visit, I still hold hope that the courses after my Associates will prove more challenging.


Seems like you have bought a lot of myths related to nanotechnology.

Remember, nanotechnology still has to follow the laws of thermodynamics.

I can hope, can't I? :D I admit, I'm kind of ignorant as far as the field goes so I may have fallen prey to some myths here and there. And I had grand visions of Osmosis Jones meets Terminator. :( lol. I think nanotechnology caught my interest because it was sort of a "comfort zone" thing: technology. However, if I actually learned more biology, I'm sure it would be more comfortable with it, too.
 

Agent Intellect

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I don't think I'm qualified to give you advice on what to do with your life, but if you plan on going into medicine or anything related to biology, you're going to have to take organic chemistry classes. I recommend reading this book before taking any organic chemistry classes. You can pretty much predict the outcome of any organic reactions after reading this book (and organic chemistry is a big part of the MCAT - and you need more than just memorizing a bunch of reactions).
 

James Black

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Awesome! And thanks. :) Been looking for a few new books to read. Too much programming mumbo jumbo, I'm going numb.
 

Architectonic

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Organic chemistry (undergrad) isn't that hard, though it does take some memorisation and practice.

I still intend to follow through with at least a Bachelor in CompSci. The field is somewhat fun, but thus far less engaging than I had hoped. However, I can't easily let myself throw away a few years of studying, and given the knowledge of people I've met at a Usergroup I visit, I still hold hope that the courses after my Associates will prove more challenging.

Are you aware from all of the fields of bioinformatics. From building models based on complexity science to biophysics modeling to designing AI mechanisms to rapidly process huge amounts of data and assist in the hypothesis formation process.
 

James Black

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Interestingly enough two of the majors I was thinking about going to (depending on which University I went to) were, at school A, Molecular Biology and Biotechnology, or (if I could get enough fin. aid to get an apt/dorm and go to the better of the two schools) at school B, Cellular and Molecular Biology, or Microbiology.

Reading up on Bioinformatics (I had seen the term and glanced over some information about it but until your post neglected looking too deep into it) it seems CompSci + Molecular Biology would be a good double major goal if I wanted to continue on to a PhD or an MD and have some decent Bioinformatics-esque background.

I'll definitely have to look more into it. Thanks a ton to everyone who has posted suggestions. :D
 

J-Spoon

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If you are going the MD or MD/PhD path (that is, the NIH's MSTP program), you will certainly have to take courses in basic/molecular biology and general/organic chemistry in order to do well on the MCATs. If you are going a PhD-only route, this is actually not necessary, even should you go into a Bio/Biomedical Engineering field. The GREs are structured far more like the SATs, and thus if you have a decent working knowledge of math up to Calculus, there should be no problems at the "quantitative" portion of the test. The verbal is basically reading comprehension, as I'm sure you're familiar with.

There do exist SAT II subject tests which are occasionally required for advanced, PURE bio/physics/math-related departments. These often require a not-insignificant background in these areas and I'd recommend that you take relevant courses if you plan on entering any of fields. The graduate department pages of any colleges' website should contain all of these prerequisites under their application requirements.

Regarding your interests, it seems like an interdisciplinary program, such as bio/biomedical engineering or neuroscience would be a good fit. Both programs, and others like them, are unbelievably vast and could meet a range of scientific interests since they leverage basically any field's specialties. In my (graduate) neuroscience interdepartmental program, we have people of many different kinds of backgrounds, psychology to physics, biology to electrical engineering. Almost all such graduate programs have introductory curricula that are designed to give you at least a basic working knowledge of the systems you'll be working on, even should there be significant gaps in your schooling re: specific subjects. It should be noted that to get any deep knowledge in an area that you're not familiar with (but required for your research), you'll spend quite a bit of time "catching up," so to speak (take it from a biology major whose work mainly consists of electrical engineering at present). But since you are just entering college, there are many opportunities to gain a lot of important background knowledge in a wide breadth of subjects - since you have talent/interest in CS but would like to work toward biological applications, I'd seriously look into any specialized/hybrid programs your university may have; some schools have entire undergrad departments devoted to highly specialized fields like cybernetics or informatics. Side note: you may be surprised at just how relevant CS is, even in "softer" fields like molecular biology ("softer" is relative to say, high energy physics). Basically everyone works with computers and code in one form or another as new methods are developed that increases the throughput of data to such a point where it is impossible to analyze without the aid of automation and clever computing strategies.

Since you are apparently an undergraduate, or soon to be one, I'd recommend that you VOLUNTEER/WORK in a lab setting. Many professors are glad to have proactive students working in their labs, and some schools offer credit for time spent working in a research lab. It also reflects very well on your chances of getting into competitive medical/graduate programs to have this experience. Even better if you go above and beyond and get some publications under your belt during this time. Additionally, reference letters are often crucial for a career in academia, and this is the single best way to have someone assess your abilities, should you want to go down this path.

Perhaps the most important factor, though, is that you become familiar with the lab environment, understand the processes by which research is performed, and really decide if this is what you want to be doing for the next couple decades. One thing I underestimated as a high school graduate is just what kind of a time commitment would be required to get these professional/terminal degrees. Granted, I was lucky and enjoy what I do immensely, but don't let it surprise you when 10 years later, you're still essentially living like a college student when all your friends have put down sizeable down payments on their lavish condos/are raising families, etc.

Don't worry though, they're miserable ;)

EDIT: Finances. If they are a concern, and you really want that MD, an obvious plus of MD/PhD is that it will be paid for. PhD programs in the sciences are likewise, paid for. The average MD goes into debt in the range of tens, hundreds of thousands throughout the course of their education. Being a practicing physician will naturally give you some ability to pay off these loans, but if family circumstances or personal finances dictate the trajectory of your studies, this is obviously a very big plus in favor of doing a dual-degree.

EDIT 2: The MD/PhD in general could potentially be very useful if you are completely set on clinical applications of research - there are a lot of red tape to cut through when you move to human trials and having that MD could certainly expedite things. If you have no interest in practicing CLINICAL MEDICINE however (that is, being a physician of any sort), I would actually recommend that you NOT try for an MSTP program. The reason being, you will never really be at a loss for partnering with a MD with research interests, should you end up at any university with a decent teaching hospital, and even if not, long distance collaborations are both common and fruitful in today's research environment. A MD/PhD represents about 10+ years of commitment to schooling - 2 years medical school, 3-5 years of graduate studies, 2 final years of med school, and 2-10 years of residency. Best case, you pick a quick residency and a quick PhD topic and you finish in 9. Worst case, you become a resident in neurosurgery, and your PhD topic is a monkey brain-machine interface study that takes 8 years to complete - this is around 20 years of work, and you'll be 40 by the time you start doing any substantive research. Granted, you'll basically be an academic superstar, and it will be much easier to finagle grant money, getting choice academic appointments at fabulous universities, etc... but then you're 40, and you barely had any time for your personal life.
 

DesertSmeagle

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I'm going to college to learn how to be a phrenologist. I have head fetish, that's my secret reason for my major.
 

James Black

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Thanks, J-Spoon, for your replies in both this thread, and my PhD vs MD Vs PhD/MD thread. It seems there are downs and ups I have to take into consideration for all three paths, and I'll definitely have to start looking into shadowing opportunities: I already intend to try to spend as much time researching with professors as possible once I transfer to the 4 year university, both as a test to see how much I enjoy it, and the usual experience/connections that come along with such activities. I unfortunately haven't had any lab classes yet due to my previous focus being solely Computer Information Systems, which is a shame: I learn best by doing. I can sit through a lecture class and learn minimal material, if any. I can watch a video, and have the same effect. Even reading has a minimal effect. (although substantially more form listening. And this is most likely due to the fact that inevitably, I just zone out of whatever I'm being lectured to about) But every time I pick up that homework and start doing the work, I catch on immediately. Its hands-on activities that help me learn, and I haven't had a chance to see how well I do in a lab class.

As far as being a college student for 20 years, I'd have to say that sounds both amazing, and horrible. :D I love the college life. I enjoy going to classes and learning, taking in new information every day, and being forced into a routine that I can follow--otherwise I'll push everything aside and never get around to anything. However, I want to be financially self-sufficient: I'm not too big on relying on others, and even now, my only complaint with college is that I am broke and cannot afford anything, and am going to college on grants and loans, while hoping that people remain kind enough to give me a place to live and food to eat. My parents haven't exactly left me with the best financial situation, and I didn't help myself any, so I admit that a well-paying career is more important to me than it should be, and that may be a small reason why an MD sounds interesting to me, although I am smart enough to put that aside and look toward a PhD if its something that experience proves I'll enjoy more.
 

NiMur90

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I'm currently in second year Biomedical Science for Undergrad. I live in Ireland which sucks a lot of balls. I won't go as far as saying 'hate', but I intensely dislike a lot of the people here. 99% of them are extraverted and just go drinking all the time, if you don't - you're known as a weirdo. Anyway, I digress, I am an American citizen and I am looking to study medicine as a graduate course over there, but I have absolutely no idea where to start. I am currently in my second year out of four. I am hoping you guys can help me. :elephant:
 

J-Spoon

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Desert Smeagle: You know, that might have some legs. Some people think that fMRI is the new phrenology, maybe you should upgrade to modern technology? ;)

James Black: I'm glad if it helped even a little! I'm much the same way - I used to be able to absorb information in lectures and dead media really easily, but am now more a kinesthetic learner, or at least learn better by doing. One big, big, big, BIG plus you have right now is that you're actually thinking about this stuff - I've hung out with too many burned out grad students that just decided on PhDs because they "didn't really want to look for a job yet." I think regardless of what you eventually decide on, you'll enjoy it since you've thought it through. This is of course key, and far more valuable than any advice anyone could possibly give you.

Also - I remembered - if finances are a big concern, as it seems to be, military med schools are federally funded and thus you are paid to go to school in a similar manner to hard science PhDs. Granted, there is an expectation of military service after you graduate (7 years, which admittedly is a long time), but you'll have rank and of course a fat pension to go along with it. This could potentially free you up to do other things, including research later on in your career. The facilities will be less glitzy than your typical lavishly-funded private school, and certainly it's less prestigious, but emergency/trauma medicine programs at these places are (understandably) without peer. Just another option.

NiMur90: I feel for you. For me, even with a middling E/I tendencies, the college social life was... a chore. As for med school classes, I'd speak with dept. advisors, and possibly a premed advisor (if your school has one) to see if you can take med school curriculum as an undergrad. I don't think there will be too many problems as long as you come close to meeting prereqs and the like, but they may force you to audit rather than take the class for credit. Bureaucracy is a killer.

There are also med-school-LIKE grad courses in similar subjects that are definitely available for undergrads to take (for credit), whose materials are very similar to that of classes in the school of medicine. Neuroanatomy is structured that way at my school, for example (taught by the same prof, in many cases grad students and med students are in the same class). If you run into a lot of departmental politicking trying to take med school courses, this is probably your best bet.


It's really unexpected for me to see all these young guys in undergrad that actually genuinely care about the things they learn and what they want to do in the future! Spent way too much time in undergrad around premeds begging for grades they didn't deserve and undergrads complaining that they actually had to LEARN things in the classes I TAed ("I wanted to take statistics, I shouldn't have to CODE anything!"). It's refreshing!
 
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