marv
Member
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OK, it's on.
Which is better, to live with serious pain or to be dead without pain.
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Jennywocky
Creepy Clown Chick
It depends on what kind of pain we're talking about and the degree of it.
I can handle prolonged extreme emotional pain (and remain functional) much longer than prolonged extreme physical pain.
I can handle prolonged extreme emotional pain (and remain functional) much longer than prolonged extreme physical pain.
Rook
enter text
Depends on the type of pain, I guess.
Though in general it is better to be alive than dead, if the pain is so unbearable as to bring about a state where one wishes to die, death may take precedence.
Elaborate?
Though in general it is better to be alive than dead, if the pain is so unbearable as to bring about a state where one wishes to die, death may take precedence.
Elaborate?
QuickTwist
Spiritual "Woo"
I agree. Depends on how severe the pain is. You also must consider how long the pain will last. A dislocated elbow is really very painful but only lasts for a certain amount of time after it has been reset. Don't let this tell you that the pain will end as soon as the elbow is reset because there are plenty of ligaments and other things that get all messed up in the process.
I believe there is a pain threshold for most people, and that it is largely based on the individual for how much pain they can take before they would prefer to be dead than live with the pain. Believe it or not a lot of women have a great amount of tolerance for pain largely due to the fact of childbirth.
I believe there is a pain threshold for most people, and that it is largely based on the individual for how much pain they can take before they would prefer to be dead than live with the pain. Believe it or not a lot of women have a great amount of tolerance for pain largely due to the fact of childbirth.
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Level of pain to level of the individuals pain threshold - check
The thing about terminal pain is not so much the physical discomfort as the psychological impact it has over time. I know there are times when it drives me crazy and lets darker thoughts creep into the forefront. I'm not going to elaborate on that other than to say that I believe there will come a time I may want to take control of my ultimate fate.
Imagine a scale of 0-10 with 0 being pain free and 10 being the worst pain you've ever felt. I don't know what it would be like to live with a constant 7 for example. 7 when you wake up, 7 all day, 7 at night when you're trying to sleep. Maybe you could learn to live with it and it wouldn't take over your thoughts if there was nothing you could do to affect it. I just don't know.
When it fluctuates between say 4 and 8 then I do know you will spend (waste) a lot of your thoughts on trying to keep it closer to 4. 4 you can learn to ignore as it becomes your "feel good" level. How you get there (meds, various treatments etc.) can dominate your thoughts through the course of a bad day. You're not YOU anymore.
Eventually dead will be better but eventually we all end up dead anyway.
The thing about terminal pain is not so much the physical discomfort as the psychological impact it has over time. I know there are times when it drives me crazy and lets darker thoughts creep into the forefront. I'm not going to elaborate on that other than to say that I believe there will come a time I may want to take control of my ultimate fate.
Imagine a scale of 0-10 with 0 being pain free and 10 being the worst pain you've ever felt. I don't know what it would be like to live with a constant 7 for example. 7 when you wake up, 7 all day, 7 at night when you're trying to sleep. Maybe you could learn to live with it and it wouldn't take over your thoughts if there was nothing you could do to affect it. I just don't know.
When it fluctuates between say 4 and 8 then I do know you will spend (waste) a lot of your thoughts on trying to keep it closer to 4. 4 you can learn to ignore as it becomes your "feel good" level. How you get there (meds, various treatments etc.) can dominate your thoughts through the course of a bad day. You're not YOU anymore.
Eventually dead will be better but eventually we all end up dead anyway.
StevenM
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Picking apart the title of the thread:
...to live with... - implies that it extends to the full duration until death
...serious pain... - implies the degree of the pain. I'm going to infer that it's much more than 'tolerable'
Which is better?
That all depends on whether there is any pain after death. Assuming that there is not, my opinion in this certain situation, is that it might be better to be dead.
...to live with... - implies that it extends to the full duration until death
...serious pain... - implies the degree of the pain. I'm going to infer that it's much more than 'tolerable'
Which is better?
That all depends on whether there is any pain after death. Assuming that there is not, my opinion in this certain situation, is that it might be better to be dead.
Helvete
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Can we have an elaboration on what death is? I have never experienced it and have never heard of someone being dead with pain, which the title implies is a thing. How can we compare anything to death? No one living knows what's in store for them on the other side.
I vote death here, just to experience something new.
Edit: Sorry I am one of the few who does actually know <<<<<--------------
Just pretending that I have no idea...
I vote death here, just to experience something new.
Edit: Sorry I am one of the few who does actually know <<<<<--------------
Just pretending that I have no idea...
Jennywocky
Creepy Clown Chick
That's kind of where I was going when I said physical pain of a certain level was worse -- it consumes you and you end up becoming someone someone else / can't function in your normal ways, interests, enjoy life, etc.
The closest I've come physically was with some back pain I had suffered for a long period of time. Not necessarily excruciating, but constant and endless and it made it hard to focus on other things at times, and it persisted.
On a more acute level, you can imagine a canker sore... it just kind of ruins various daily experiences and provides a sharp degree of pain and takes a few days / a week to disappear. I've had pains that were sharp enough that I just told myself I had to hold on for a few days until it diminished and then I'd feel better again; I can't imagine the mental deterioation that comes with pain of that level that persists for weeks, months, or years.
Lot
Don't forget to bring a towel
I'm in pain all day pretty much every day. It' mentally and emotionally draining. It's not abnormal for me the think about getting a bunch of heroin and ODing. A lot of people don't realize how depressing it is to always hurt. It takes away your hope of every being fully happy. It's can destroy your motivation to even get better. "So much work. Why even bother? Your just going to re-injure yourself again." That's around when the dark thoughts IB was talking about come in like a flood.
Then I smoke some pot and the pain is way more tolerable. My thoughts are positive. Now I just need to rewire my brain to not exhibit the behavior of a lazy depressed person anymore, so I can actually bet better.
Can't say which is better. I certainly don't damn really sick and hurt people that kill themselves.
Then I smoke some pot and the pain is way more tolerable. My thoughts are positive. Now I just need to rewire my brain to not exhibit the behavior of a lazy depressed person anymore, so I can actually bet better.
Can't say which is better. I certainly don't damn really sick and hurt people that kill themselves.
marv
Member
Yeah, well, this is one of the trickiest (obviously incomprehensive) question of all.. What's really interesting is what defines someone's "threshold", as some of you've mentioned. It shows how relative this question is, not just depending on the circumstances but on the individual and his value system too.
When we are talking about subjects that involves death or birth, we are pretty much arguing around singularities, certain points which we can't focus on because otherwise our argument would turn silly, we would divide by zero by our current understanding.
The fact that we have no idea what this threshold should depend on or what form and size it should take, tells us that we have no freaking clue how we should live and what sort of importance it is equipped with for us. We need an external reason, necessarily; the pointlessness of life is encoded in the point of life that only some external force can override.
When we are talking about subjects that involves death or birth, we are pretty much arguing around singularities, certain points which we can't focus on because otherwise our argument would turn silly, we would divide by zero by our current understanding.
The fact that we have no idea what this threshold should depend on or what form and size it should take, tells us that we have no freaking clue how we should live and what sort of importance it is equipped with for us. We need an external reason, necessarily; the pointlessness of life is encoded in the point of life that only some external force can override.
Reluctantly
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I suppose if the pain made it almost impossible to function and I believed there was no way to stop it, I'd seek death. Because then there is no hope of finding meaning in life because then even the pain becomes a complete hindrance to living. But my focus for living is more for meaning, rather than enjoyment. So I could not enjoy living, but live for the meaning I can find or create in it. Though ideally, I want both.
Cherry Cola
Banned
This thread is sort of like asking what's plus if you add minus?
marv
Member
The thread -I think- is directed at defining the threshold that one has to overcome as he is enduring severe pain, and then come up with an ultimate decision: it's better for me to die now..
One end of the spectrum can be a man with great elements of his life worth fighting for, a passionate lover, a promise of afterlife, etc. On the other hand: a nihilistic person, (like me, but somewhat more bitter) who may think of suicide when he has to take out the trash too, because he knows that when you neutralize all the "fake" connections to your biological environment, there is fewer and fewer "elements" worth fighting for.. living for; and your trust in your curious, prospecting self of great promise and reason also dwindles, more frequently than what you'd be comfortable with.
Vrecknidj
Prolific Member
Not only does an answer require more information about the pain, but, it also begs us to question what it means to be dead.
After all, if some kind of afterlife is real, whether it's reincarnation or the heaven on South Park or whatever, it might be just fine.
marv
Member
Just use common sense meanings for these words, since it's a general, common sense question. Also, it's not about answering the question but finding out if there is any way of answering it..
If the pain means that I can get a prescription for some strong opiates then I guess pain isn't all that bad.
I am just reading 'Elantris' by Brandon Sanderson, without spoiling anything there's a race of 'undead' people; people whos bodies have died but they remain animated. Any injury doesn't heal so a stubbed toe is a stubbed toe forever. These undead will not fight amongst eachother incase of injury as it would be an eternal injury.
In one part of the book, one of the said undead has his head crushed by a huge mallet but remains conscious and spends the rest of eternity in this state. The characters in the book have a moral decision as to if they should leave him to suffer for the rest of time or burn him (the only way to kill one of these undead characters).
In this instance, death with no pain would be the obvious choice.
In the real world, I don't think it is so black and white. Life with pain would obviously be the default answer for most, but seeing somebody with late-stage cancer would change anybodies default position to this question.
I am just reading 'Elantris' by Brandon Sanderson, without spoiling anything there's a race of 'undead' people; people whos bodies have died but they remain animated. Any injury doesn't heal so a stubbed toe is a stubbed toe forever. These undead will not fight amongst eachother incase of injury as it would be an eternal injury.
In one part of the book, one of the said undead has his head crushed by a huge mallet but remains conscious and spends the rest of eternity in this state. The characters in the book have a moral decision as to if they should leave him to suffer for the rest of time or burn him (the only way to kill one of these undead characters).
In this instance, death with no pain would be the obvious choice.
In the real world, I don't think it is so black and white. Life with pain would obviously be the default answer for most, but seeing somebody with late-stage cancer would change anybodies default position to this question.
marv
Member
Interesting.. Maybe the question could be simplified to this: Which is better for the self, eternal conscious experience of the "void", or... the lack of it.
Vrecknidj
Prolific Member
Then I think that the answer depends on the person, on the circumstances, etc.
If I'm in serious pain, but, by living, I can save my fellow soldiers (for example), then I go on in serious pain.
If I'm in serious pain, but by living, I can come to terms with my loved ones (for example), then I go on in serious pain.
Etc.