when do you know that who you think you are isn't who you actually are

[LAM]

I continually notice disrepancies in how I think I act or maybe want to act instead of what I actually do. This is quite annoying as I usually act worse than I think I should be. Personal progress I can basically only measure by the number of instances I live up to my own expectations of myself and the times I don't. But this becomes very subjective as I keep thinking about something that I did in different ways.
So I end up completely clueless about it and possibly sometimes mistake as to whether I was nice or arrogant or a jerk or stupid or considerate, etc. Does anybody else get this and is there anyway for me to fix this without having to involve other people's perspectives instead of my own random ones (I just don't like talking about this sort of stuff at all. Or emotions. Or future career choices <_<.)

 

[amorfati]

I continually notice disrepancies in how I think I act or maybe want to act instead of what I actually do. This is quite annoying as I usually act worse than I think I should be. Personal progress I can basically only measure by the number of instances I live up to my own expectations of myself and the times I don't. But this becomes very subjective as I keep thinking about something that I did in different ways.
So I end up completely clueless about it and possibly sometimes mistake as to whether I was nice or arrogant or a jerk or stupid or considerate, etc. Does anybody else get this and is there anyway for me to fix this without having to involve other people's perspectives instead of my own random ones (I just don't like talking about this sort of stuff at all. Or emotions. Or future career choices <_<.)

If you continue to fail to live up to your expectations, or ideals, etc. than you need to consider that maybe your expectations are too demanding. It is a great thing to demand much of yourself and not want to settle for mediocrity, but you need to be realistic and wise about it, or else you will fall into a vicious cycle of failure and defeatism, which leads to more failure and more defeatism, on and on and on and on..

As far as being confused about how you came off; nice, arrogant, etc. You need to learn to not care. Be aware of your motives. If your motive was to be helpful, and you "came off" (came off to whom? The other person or yourself?) as arrogant, oh well.

Just be aware. Be aware of your motives and be aware of how they manifest, but don't judge them. Just become increasingly aware of what is going on and things will start to fall into place.

 

[Da Blob]

It seems that receiving feedback from Others is a difficult task for INTPians. Some people would simple ask such questions as "Did I come off as a jerk, just now" and then apparently have confidence in whatever answer they received from Others.

Personally, I could never trust that kind of feedback, so I never sought it. There has been several observations that INTPians often lack the innate talent of reading body language, It is a skill that can be acquired and might help one to judge the honest responses to Others, few have acquired the talent for lying with their body's language...

 

[asmit127]

LAM here's a thought for you - it's not what's said and done but what's heard and seen. That is, even if you live up to your expectations and act exactly as you'd like to think you should there is no guarantee those around you will interpret it correctly. There's no point beating yourself up about it (though I'd suggest everyone does to some extent) but if it bothers you try harder to impress yourself, the Others might get it.

It seems that receiving feedback from Others is a difficult task for INTPians. Some people would simply ask such questions as "Did I come off as a jerk, just now" and then apparently have confidence in whatever answer they received from Others.

You know, I'm actually trying this at the moment. I flat out asked someone who worked with me for years but has moved on how I came across in my daily actions, what she makes of my carefree appearance and lack of emotion. So far I've not got a straight answer on any aspect - I think she's a feeler and afraid of upsetting me, and if she thinks what she has to say will upset me I'm all the more keen to hear it. No guarantee I'll act on it but she's earnt my respect enough to at least consider what she has to say or I'd not have asked...

Asking face to face at the time would be impossible, showing that I care would appear as insecurity which is a bad image to present. Maybe?

 

[Juno]

I continually notice disrepancies in how I think I act or maybe want to act instead of what I actually do. This is quite annoying as I usually act worse than I think I should be. Personal progress I can basically only measure by the number of instances I live up to my own expectations of myself and the times I don't. But this becomes very subjective as I keep thinking about something that I did in different ways.
So I end up completely clueless about it and possibly sometimes mistake as to whether I was nice or arrogant or a jerk or stupid or considerate, etc. Does anybody else get this and is there anyway for me to fix this without having to involve other people's perspectives instead of my own random ones (I just don't like talking about this sort of stuff at all. Or emotions. Or future career choices <_<.)

I've been doing something like this for years and have been trying to change how I act around others, especially towards women. I'm not even close to reaching my goal, but this is what I've learned along the way:

1) Treat others as you would like to be treated. Simple enough.

2) Be honest, and just say it diplomatically. If you beat around the bush people might get the wrong idea. Honesty is the best policy.

3) Don't be afraid of others. If there are problems with people, go right up to them and talk to them about it. Tell them your position on the matter and why you did/said what you did. Be honest and sincere.

4)Be firm. If you use steps 1,2, and 3 and someone doesn't like what you are saying/doing then you have all the reason in the world to hold your ground. Be gentile but firm. I.e - Screw them

5)Swallow your pride. If you are wrong then just swallow your pride and acknowledge the other persons position on being right. People WILL talk behind your back but doing this will only gain their respect for you.


Not only that but being attentive to the body language of the other person is vital too. That...well...is something you'll have to pick up on.

I could easily type a three hundred page report on this but I tried to keep it to a minimum. Hope it helps.

 

[LAM]

Thanks for all the input. I was more curious than annoyed by these problems and wanted to find out whether other INTPs have the same problem and how they deal with it. I am rarely such a jerk/dumbass that I would regret it.

 

[asmit127]

1) Treat others as you would like to be treated

This wouldn't work for me when it comes to interaction. For example I'd like to never be questioned on anything I've done, if I want someone to know about it I tell them in as much detail as I want that individual to know. Yet to not "show interest" when Others say something vague like "I went to a party" by asking where/why/was it fun would cause them to think I don't care, and then not bother to try and tell me about something next time.

Other than that your list is good

I am rarely such a jerk/dumbass that I would regret it.

Glad to hear it

 

[Rast88]

All the time i can get my life planned out what i should be doing and what i actually do are two different things. i swear if i did everything as planned i would have a way better quality of life. But i always seem to slip back into a think tank of the same and it turns into a rut. If my plan was to make plans i would be doing fine. Sometimes i wonder if i will ever turn out like my expectations for myself. You cant break out of a cirlce you dont know your in. I feel like i am in a larger circle than the one i previously thought i was and i have to break out of somthing much harder maybe some conditioning i secretly have. The gap between my self and my self image is hardly actualized. But maybe i should be actualizing my self and see where that leads instead of what i think i should be ehhh?

 

[LAM]

This wouldn't work for me when it comes to interaction. For example I'd like to never be questioned on anything I've done, if I want someone to know about it I tell them in as much detail as I want that individual to know. Yet to not "show interest" when Others say something vague like "I went to a party" by asking where/why/was it fun would cause them to think I don't care, and then not bother to try and tell me about something next time.

Other than that your list is good

Glad to hear it

I do that exact same thing all the time. Except some people never get it; they just keep asking on and on <_<.

(also, do you actually care?)

 

[CoryJames]

People say I come off as arrogant all the time, and people think I am always in a bad/critical mood. Most people do not appreciate complete objective honesty, and this is because most others are feelers and sugarcoat their responses and body language etc.

This has led me to have a general lack of trust of others, which makes it hard for me to go up and ask someone how they took a certain thing I did or said. I feel as though they will not honestly tell me how they felt about it.

You have two options, either suck it up and trust them, or continue judging yourself and try to be more aware of your actions, appearance, and general attitude, and try to imagine it from the others perspective. This is what I have done most of my life. Be aware, however, that this can lead to severe introversion and very may well may further your plight.

 

[asmit127]

do you actually care?

I've been thinking about this all day (time want very slowly at work due to a powercut...) as of course caring is an easy thing to discuss... not.

I do care on all three of the points mentioned above (where/why/was it fun) but not for the conventional reasons. The where is to find out who in my acquaintance can actually organise something that actually happens. The why is to satisfy why I wasn't invited, not that it's likely I'd have gone anyway in the case of a party but an invite is a nice reassurance I'm not seen as a bad person to have around (surprisingly not off topic ). The was it fun appeals to the perfectionist in me as people have a tendency to moan even when recounting a fun experience so if I ever go insane and want to host a party I know what not to do from their answers.

Also these questions give me an insight as to who the other person is, whether they are useful on a practical level (noticing things like the sound system and lighting) or a people person (noticing how happy everyone was). This might be useful to know in the future if I have a problem, no point asking a people person while trying to work out a new gadget...

So no, I don't care at all about that party, nor if the person I'm talking to enjoyed it yet I think there is much to be gained from probing them about it and it seems they see me in a better light when I do so so it's a win-win situation. I just wish they'd learn not to do it to me, though I can be deliberately vague until they loose interest.

Most people do not appreciate complete objective honesty, and this is because most others are feelers and sugarcoat their responses and body language etc.

This has led me to have a general lack of trust of others, which makes it hard for me to go up and ask someone how they took a certain thing I did or said. I feel as though they will not honestly tell me how they felt about it.

Plenty of stereotyping there then! (not meant in a bad way )

I'd be happy with any answer, especially from a feeling type. Sugar coating can be removed and it's unlikely that the truth beneath has been over-thought or what is said has been considered from any perspective other than their own. That's a thinking thing. If you get a couple of reactions on the same event and can see similarities in the accounts surely that's what happened, whether you saw it that way or not. The actual asking in person would be very strange though.

either suck it up and trust them, or continue judging yourself and try to be more aware of your actions, appearance, and general attitude

Don't get me started on this one. I'm acutely aware of my appearance and the lack of effort that goes into it and the only reaction I've got (unasked for and from a drunk 40+ year old woman) is that I look poor in some way. Based on this I should go and buy a new wardrobe but that's not going to happen!