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What Tarot Card Are You?

Lyra

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The Tarot was never meant to be used this way: the 22 Atu (cards) of the Major Arcana combine-- in theory-- to form a unified map of spiritual reality. Each of these cards is meant to play a role in that reality which is inextricable from the whole, and which is mirrored on both a macrocosmic level (i.e. in the totality of existence) and a microcosmic level (i.e. in one person).

This test is a misappropriation of a system designed to aid understanding. It trivialises it and subverts it away from its original purpose.

Even if the Tarot could be used for this purpose, the 16 court cards would be the ones which could describe human tendencies of personality (and, indeed, I've seen a few GOD AWFUL attempts at correlating the MBTI types with the court cards).

In essence: implicit in this test is a disrespect for the system and a lack of understanding of it.

But if you all want to carry on running something beautiful, elegant, and complex through the mud of petty internet trivia... well, do so.

(Note that I am discussing post-Levi and Golden Dawn Tarots. I recognise that the development of the system before that point might have been entirely divorced from the Victorian systematisation. This test is a proletarian corruption of G.D type systems, whereas the G.D system might have been an admirable creation from readily available cultural reference points.)




 

snowqueen

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Lyra

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I appreciate that you asked without simply assuming that I was, given that my references could easily have given rise to such an assumption.

It's possible you're aware of some or most of the following information, but it will likely be relevant to other readers (if there are any).

Firstly, I'd note that the vast majority of information you'll find related to this online (including the Wikipedia page) is inaccurate or low quality. "Progressive satanism" is a term used by the WSA352, with which I feel less than no identity and whose writings I often find absurd and underdeveloped. So, with regards to the White Star Acception or any other groups with a blog or website: no.

Secondly, the Order of Nine Angles isn't really a group. The materials were first published and publicised in the 70s, and groups or associations of individuals have developed as a result of that or tangentially to that. There's no central organisation in any typical sense. I think that it's more accurate to classify individuals as members of a particular sub-group or as associating with particular people who make use of the original materials.

Having said that, I'm not a member of any such group.

What I am is a seeker after truth. And I will go wherever my search takes me, no matter how much that will damage my standing in the eyes of others. That search-- along with application of any methodologies which I think may aid in it-- is my motivation for studying or drawing upon any manuscripts or writings which are associated with ONA. And, although it has often become seriously side-tracked and has been used as an excuse for objectionable behavior or cruelty, that search is my motivation for almost all of the 'extreme' (by some standards-- I'm not trying to portray myself as such) behaviors I engage in.

That applies to my use of ST terminology as well (although I use most of it in a very atypical way, according to the definitions I've formulated and posted in various threads here). I simply find that it allows me to accurately comprehend phenomena in a way that other terminology doesn't. It aids understanding.

I was introduced to some of the older manuscripts of the ONA and various associated private groups by a man who I respect, and who is far more knowledgeable than I. I'd likely have rejected them outright-- as laughable-- if it hadn't been for his recommendation. That somebody so much more honorable and experienced than I saw value in them motivated me to persevere, and to see the depth which underlaid the superficial appearance. (I'll note that that applies only to a very few of the writings and to Myatt's Numinous Way, and not to whatever can be found via google.)

Given that you or somebody else might ask, because practical heresy is one method advocated by some ONA MSS as a means of developing understanding*: I am not a Satanist, I am not a radical Islamist, I am not a Nazi, I am not a racialist, and I have not participated in any of the crimes advocated by unrelated individuals associated with the group.

And I think the British state is quite alright, really. I plan to vote for Gordon Brown. I'm not too keen on his tax plan, but I'm generally happy with the freedoms I've had under New Labour and the ethos they've prmotoed. I thus see little reason to vote any other way.

But I have done and thought things which would give anybody all the ammunition they need to defame me**. That's not important to me, though. It's irrelevant to what matters to me: understanding.

Lyra's

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*Although that guidance is often used as an excuse for simple pathology or indulgence in the 'dark' by failing adherents. There are lots of genuine Nazis and delusional occultists who call themselves ONA or enjoy a 'Satanic' mystique. Barring sex crime, people have used something ONA-ish to justify just about whatever needs to be justified. All I can say is that I am myself, not that.

*If there's anything left to be defamed, that is. In addition to the obvious, simply involving myself with esotericism would be adequate grounds for antipathy or ridicule for some. It would, years ago, have been adequate for me.
 

Lyra

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p.s. With regards to The Numinous Way, given that you quoted my signature, I'd like to note that I don't hold to it in its entirety or particularly admire the quality of some of the writing. I include it in my signature because I think it gets at something which I'd be very happy for others to... get. It might get at that in a way which includes much that is questionable or non-essential, but I feel that it gets at it regardless.

Addendum to the previous post: so you might say that any interest I have in the ONA is equivalent to my interest in systems theory, or Taoism, or Heidegger, or science, or mathematics, or Scientology (yes-- some of the earliest books include a few very astute observations), or personality change methodology, or philosophy, or formal logic, or legal psychedelic drugs.... etc.

Three transformations I name for you: how the spirit becomes a camel, and the camel a lion, and the lion at last a child.
There is much that is heavy for the spirit, for the strong, weight-bearing spirit in which reverence dwells: the heavy and the hardest are what its strength desires.
What is heavy? Thus asks the weight-bearing spirit, and thus it kneels down, like the camel, and would be well laden.
What is heaviest, you heroes? Thus asks the weight-bearing spirit. That I may take it upon me and become well pleased with my strength.
Is it not this: lowering oneself, in order to hurt one's haughtiness? Letting one's folly shine forth, in order to mock one's own wisdom?
Or is it this: separating from our cause when it celebrates victory? Climbing high mountains in order to tempt the tempter?
Or is it this: feeding on the acorns and grass of understanding and for the sake of truth suffering hunger of the soul?
Or is it this: being sick and sending the comforters home, and making friends with deaf people who never hear what it is you want?
Or is it this: stepping into filthy waters, as long as they are the waters of truth, and repelling cold frogs or hot toads?
--Nietzsche, Also Sprach Zarathustra. The Speeches of Zarathustra: On the Three Transformations.

[bimgx=100]http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc159/daimonion_october/death.jpg[/bimgx]



Silvertongue
 

fullerene

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13.jpg


You are Death

Change, Transformation, Alteration.

People fear this card, but if you want to change your life, this is one of the best indicators for it. Whatever happens, life will be different. Yes, the Death card can signal a death in the right circumstances (a question about a very sick or old relative, for example), but unlike its dramatic presentation in the movies, the Death card is far more likely to signal transformation, passage, change. Scorpio, the sign of this card, has three forms: scorpion, serpent, eagle. The Death card indicates this transition from lower to higher to highest. This is a card of humility, and it may mean you have been brought low, but only so that you can then go higher than ever before. Death "humbles" all, but it also "exults." Always keep in mind that on this card of darkness there is featured a sunrise as well. You could be ready for a change.


...does anyone know any more about this one?
 

Lyra

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Sorry crypt, I don't know anything about that one.

Silvertongue
 

Lyra

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Incidentally, all of the cards posted in this thread-- bar one-- have been horrifically ugly. I don't understand why anybody would publish that kind of work.

[bimgx=300]http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc159/daimonion_october/2_11PrincessofSwords-1.jpg[/bimgx]
 

snowqueen

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Thanks for the explanation Lyra - I've always admired your research, particularly in finding images. I personally ceased looking for 'understanding' in the esoteric some years ago having been quite interested in it in my 20s. Having said that, as a vajrayana Buddhist in some ways I am being disingenuous in my rejection of it. I actually agree with you that using Tarot as a personality test is somehow distasteful though I have no real explanation for why that is so.

Anyway, I was just curious having noticed the link in your sig - and I noted that the websites all seemed to be written by the same hand. Myatt seems a pretty confused individual although again there's no doubt about his intellect and level of research although possibly a bit low on genuine scholarship. Waugh and friends also seemed to be versions - images repeating such as your star nursery with fish ... Curious how these images seem to crop up. I'm naturally nosy, like you.
 

ashitaria

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12.jpg
You are the Hanged Man

Self-sacrifice, Sacrifice, Devotion, Bound.
With the Hanged man there is often a sense of fatalism, waiting for something to happen. Or a fear of loss from a situation, rather than gain.
The Hanged Man is perhaps the most fascinating card in the deck. It reflects the story of Odin who offered himself as a sacrifice in order to gain knowledge. Hanging from the world tree, wounded by a spear, given no bread or mead, he hung for nine days. On the last day, he saw on the ground runes that had fallen from the tree, understood their meaning, and, coming down, scooped them up for his own. All knowledge is to be found in these runes.
The Hanged Man, in similar fashion, is a card about suspension, not life or death. It signifies selflessness, sacrifice and prophecy. You make yourself vulnerable and in doing so, gain illumination. You see the world differently, with almost mystical insights.
 

Waterstiller

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Princess of Swords
Beautiful.


The other link to the card I posted is broken so here it is again.. The Queen of Water (cups):
[bimgx=300]http://www.spiritualengineering.com/ContentImages/CardDecks/OshoZenTarot/oshozenw13.jpg[/bimgx]


SnowQueen.. I'm going to point you to the Osho Zen Tarot. It's beautiful, the images speak clearly, and the book it comes with is priceless. I use this deck for meditation/readings. There are some absolutely stunning decks out there.. :)
 

Lyra

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I prefer eternity unbiased.


[bimgx=300]http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc159/daimonion_october/17_The_Star.jpg[/bimgx]


I appreciate that, snowqueen. With regards to Myatt: I question whether the early, core materials originate with him. He certainly had a role in compiling them and distributing them, and in writing a lot that was related afterward, but I think that what he compiled predated him.

Another relevant individual, whose images I've probably used more than anybody else's, is Richard Moult*. Many of the Tetrahedron images I posted in Waugh's introduction thread were from his Tarot.

*[Second website]
 

ashitaria

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The Tarot was never meant to be used this way: the 22 Atu (cards) of the Major Arcana combine-- in theory-- to form a unified map of spiritual reality. Each of these cards is meant to play a role in that reality which is inextricable from the whole, and which is mirrored on both a macrocosmic level (i.e. in the totality of existence) and a microcosmic level (i.e. in one person).

This test is a misappropriation of a system designed to aid understanding. It trivialises it and subverts it away from its original purpose.

Even if the Tarot could be used for this purpose, the 16 court cards would be the ones which could describe human tendencies of personality (and, indeed, I've seen a few GOD AWFUL attempts at correlating the MBTI types with the court cards).

In essence: implicit in this test is a disrespect for the system and a lack of understanding of it.

But if you all want to carry on running something beautiful, elegant, and complex through the mud of petty internet trivia... well, do so.

(Note that I am discussing post-Levi and Golden Dawn Tarots. I recognise that the development of the system before that point might have been entirely divorced from the Victorian systematisation. This test is a proletarian corruption of G.D type systems, whereas the G.D system might have been an admirable creation from readily available cultural reference points.)





You really do hate this online test, don't you? o.O (that's a lot of words you typed there....)

And aren't tarot cards supposed to symbolize your future and what will happen? I'm not much into the history of tarot cards, but I heard it was used frequently by gypsies who proclaimed to see into the future. As you have said, the information that this website gives is inaccurate, but there are a lot of double meanings to these cards, and the information they give is what they perceive, not necessarily nonsensical. After all, tarot cards were made by people, and as people, we perceive them as people- in other words, nothing is perfectly correct or correctly perfect (my horrible grammar, especially when you are trying to convert what was originally used for fortune-telling into insight of personality.

And I must admit though, this test is a poor test for personality, though you really should look from a cooler side of things- this is just for fun. Please understand that.


EDIT: Is this information correct?


THE HANGED MAN

Basic Card Symbols
A man hanging by one foot from a Tau cross - sometimes from a bar or tree. His free leg is always bent to form a "4," his face is always peaceful, never suffering. Sometimes his hands are bound, sometimes they dangle. Sometimes coins fall out of his pockets or hands.
See examples of different Hanged Man cards here.


Basic Tarot Story
The Fool settles beneath a tree, intent on finding his spiritual self. There he stays for nine days, without eating, barely moving. People pass by him, animals, clouds, the wind, the rain, the stars, sun and moon. On the ninth day, with no conscious thought of why, he climbs a branch and dangles upside down like a child, giving up for a moment, all that he is, wants, knows or cares about. Coins fall from his pockets and as he gazes down on them - seeing them not as money but only as round bits of metal - everything suddenly changes perspective. It is as if he's hanging between the mundane world and the spiritual world, able to see both. It is a dazzling moment, dreamlike yet crystal clear. Connections he never understood before are made, mysteries are revealed.
But timeless as this moment of clarity seems, he realizes that it will not last. Very soon, he must right himself, and when he does, things will be different. He will have to act on what he's learned. For now, however, he just hangs, weightless as if underwater, observing, absorbing, seeing.
Basic Tarot Meaning
With Neptune (or Water) as its planet, the Hanged Man is perhaps the most fascinating card in the deck. It reflects the story of Odin who offered himself as a sacrifice in order to gain knowledge. Hanging from the world tree, wounded by a spear, given no bread or mead, he hung for nine days. On the last day, he saw on the ground runes that had fallen from the tree, understood their meaning, and, coming down, scooped them up for his own. All knowledge is to be found in these runes.
The Hanged Man, in similar fashion, is a card about suspension, not life or death. This is a time of trial or meditation, selflessness, sacrifice, prophecy. The Querent stops resisting; instead he makes himself vulnerable, sacrifices his position or opposition, and in doing so, gains illumination. Answers that eluded him become clear, solutions to problems are found. He sees the world differently, has almost mystical insights. This card can also imply a time when everything just stands still, a time of rest and reflection before moving on. Things will continue on in a moment, but for now, they float, timeless.
Thirteen's Observations
Neptune is spirituality, dreams, psychic abilities, and the Hanged Man is afloat in these. He is also 12, the opposite of the World card, 21. With the World card you go infinitely out. With the Hanged Man, you go infinitely in.
This card signifies a time of insight so deep that, for a moment, nothing but that insight exists. All Tarot readers have such moments when we see, with absolute clarity, the whole picture, the entire message offered by a spread. The Hanged Man symbolizes such moments of suspension between physical and mystical worlds. Such moments don't last, and they usually require some kind of sacrifice. Sacrifice of a belief or perspective, a wish, dream, hope, money, time or even selfhood. In order to gain, you must give. Sometimes you need to sacrifice cherished positions, open yourself to other truths, other perspectives in order to find solutions, in order to bring about change. One thing is certain, whether the insight is great or small, spiritual or mundane, once you have been the Hanged Man you never see things quite the same.
 

Lyra

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You really do hate this online test, don't you? o.O (that's a lot of words you typed there....)

[+]

And I must admit though, this test is a poor test for personality, though you really should look from a cooler side of things- this is just for fun. Please understand that.
Yeah, it's trivial and fun like the hordes of new-age charlatans who exploited, trivialised, and abused Native American culture to sell low-quality products to low-quality people were fun. It's fun like British cultural colonialists who leveled-down and homogenised diverse and unique cultures in their 'spiritual syncretism' were fun. It's fun like the mindless abuse of complex and meaningful things by people who don't care to look into what those things mean to those to whose life they are essential is fun.

Really fun.

Just as long as you don't care to look at what it is you're trampling into the mud of homogeneity and triviality; just as long as you don't realise or care that these things are sacred to some people, and that you are thoughtlessly using what is sacred to them for ugly little ends.

Read this.


And aren't tarot cards supposed to symbolize your future and what will happen?
No. Except tangentially, as a result of changing how a person experiences life. But as a petty fortune-telling gimmick? No.

The pre-GD Tarot decks were often used for different purposes.

I'm not much into the history of tarot cards, but I heard it was used frequently by gypsies who proclaimed to see into the future.
All of the decks used in these tests, and all of the cards posted in this thread (bar the Sphinx I posted), are directly derivative from the system used by The Holy Order of The Golden Dawn, an English Victorian esoteric society. Most of its members were aristocrats, mystics and artists. Hardly gypsies.

As you have said, the information that this website gives is inaccurate, but there are a lot of double meanings to these cards, and the information they give is what they perceive, not necessarily nonsensical. After all, tarot cards were made by people, and as people, we perceive them as people- in other words, nothing is perfectly correct or correctly perfect (my horrible grammar, especially when you are trying to convert what was originally used for fortune-telling into insight of personality.
It was all written by somebody who doesn't understand the system they are appropriating, and who resorts to trivialisations and middle-class fluffications of something that, in its original conception, dealt with vital life. I've spent months studying the Tarot: the type of information that was posted throughout the first page of this thread is simply low-quality new-age-housewife fire-fodder.

By all means go on. It's your choice. I'm just discussing the nature of what it is that you are doing by abusing something you don't understand so that you can waste a few minutes having your ego stroked by some computer describing your personality in pseudo-mystical neo-Jungian waffle.
 

Lyra

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Actually, I'm going to quote the page I linked. It's a different case, but exactly the same sentiment applies. This isn't just about a bit of fun. It's about how we treat the traditions and cultures of our fellow human beings, and the respect we do or do not show in facilitating or rejecting the colonisation and superficial appropriation of those complex things for trivial ends:

Declaration of War
Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality

---------------------------------------------

First of all; We (meaning A.I.C.S.) did not write this declaration.
It was written by Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Spiritual people.
We do however support, and we encourage others to support, each and every word written here.
Elders don't get around the internet like we do, so they are only partly aware of all the exploitation going on. Support those who wrote these words making it known to the exploiters - we know who and what they are, we do not approve, we are watching, and we are notifying others. Above all else, BOYCOTT the fakes and make sure your friends do not fall victim to them!

----------------------------------------------

At the Lakota Summit V, an international gathering of US and Canadian Lakota, Dakota and Nakota Nations, about 500 representatives from 40 different tribes and bands of the Lakota unanimously passed a "Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality." The following declaration was unanimously passed on June 10, 1993 Declaration of War

-----------------------------------------------


WHEREAS we are the conveners of an ongoing series of comprehensive forums on the abuse and exploitation of Lakota spirituality; and
WHEREAS we represent the recognized traditional spiritual leaders, traditional elders, and grassroots advocates of the Lakota people; and
WHEREAS for too long we have suffered the unspeakable indignity of having our most precious Lakota ceremonies and spiritual practices desecrated, mocked and abused by non-Indian "wannabes," hucksters, cultists, commercial profiteers and self-styled "New Age shamans" and their followers; and
WHEREAS with horror and outrage we see this disgraceful expropriation of our sacred Lakota traditions has reached epidemic proportions in urban areas throughout the country; and
WHEREAS our precious Sacred Pipe is being desecrated through the sale of pipestone pipes at flea markets, powwows, and "New Age" retail stores; and
WHEREAS pseudo-religious corporations have been formed to charge people money for admission into phony "sweatlodges" and "vision quest" programs; and
WHEREAS sacrilegious "sundances" for non-Indians are being conducted by charlatans and cult leaders who promote abominable and obscene imitations of our sacred Lakota sundance rites; and
WHEREAS non-Indians have organized themselves into imitation "tribes," assigning themselves make-believe "Indian names" to facilitate their wholesale expropriation and commercialization of our Lakota traditions; and
WHEREAS academic disciplines have sprung up at colleges and universities institutionalizing the sacrilegious imitation of our spiritual practices by students and instructors under the guise of educational programs in "shaminism;" and
WHEREAS non-Indian charlatans and "wannabes" are selling books that promote the systematic colonization of our Lakota spirituality; and
WHEREAS the television and film industry continues to saturate the entertainment media with vulgar, sensationalist and grossly distorted representations of Lakota spirituality and culture which reinforce the public's negative stereotyping of Indian people and which gravely impair the self-esteem of our children; and
WHEREAS individuals and groups involved in "the New Age Movement," in "the men's movement," in "neo-paganism" cults and in "shamanism" workshops all have exploited the spiritual traditions of our Lakota people by imitating our ceremonial ways and by mixing such imitation rituals with non-Indian occult practices in an offensive and harmful pseudo-religious hodgepodge; and
WHEREAS the absurd public posturing of this scandalous assortment of psuedo-Indian charlatans, "wannabes," commercial profiteers, cultists and "New Age shamans" comprises a momentous obstacle in the struggle of traditional Lakota people for an adequate public appraisal of the legitimate political, legal and spiritual needs of real Lakota people; and
WHEREAS this exponential exploitation of our Lakota spiritual traditions requires that we take immediate action to defend our most precious Lakota spirituality from further contamination, desecration and abuse;



THEREFORE WE RESOLVE AS FOLLOWS:



1. We hereby and henceforth declare war against all persons who persist in exploiting, abusing and misrepresenting the sacred traditions and spiritual practices of our Lakota, Dakota and Nakota people.
2. We call upon all our Lakota, Dakota and Nakota brothers and sisters from reservations, reserves, and traditional communities in the United States and Canada to actively and vocally oppose this alarming take-over and systematic destruction of our sacred traditions.
3. We urge our people to coordinate with their tribal members living in urban areas to identify instances in which our sacred traditions are being abused, and then to resist this abuse, utilizing whatever specific tactics are necessary and sufficient --for example demonstrations, boycotts, press conferences, and acts of direct intervention.
4. We especially urge all our Lakota, Dakota, and Nakota people to take action to prevent our own people from contributing to and enabling the abuse of our sacred ceremonies and spiritual practices by outsiders; for, as we all know, there are certain ones among our own people who are prostituting our spiritual ways for their own selfish gain, with no regard for the spiritual well-being of the people as a whole.
5. We assert a posture of zero-tolerance for any "white man's shaman" who rises from within our own communities to "authorize" the expropriation of our ceremonial ways by non-Indians; all such "plastic medicine men" are enemies of the Lakota, Dakota and Nakota people.
6. We urge traditional people, tribal leaders, and governing councils of all other Indian nations, to join us in calling for an immediate end to this rampant exploitation of our respective American Indian sacred traditions by issuing statements denouncing such abuse; for it is not the Lakota, Dakota and Nakota people alone whose spiritual practices are being systematically violated by non-Indians.
7. We urge all our Indian brothers and sisters to act decisively and boldly in our present campaign to end the destruction of our sacred traditions, keeping in mind our highest duty as Indian people: to preserve the purity of our precious traditions for our future generations, so that our children and our children's children will survive and prosper in the sacred manner intended for each of our respective peoples by our Creator.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Wilmer Stampede Mesteth; (Oglala Lakota); Traditional Spiritual Leader & Lakota Culture Instructor; Oglala Lakota College, Pine Ridge, South Dakota
Darrell Standing Elk; (Sicangu Lakota); President, Center for the SPIRIT, San Fancisco, California, & Pine Ridge, South Dakota
Phyllis Swift Hawk; (Kul Wicasa Lakota); Tiospaye Wounspe Waokiye; Wanblee, South
 

Words

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You are The Devil

ehm devil!? O.o!

15.jpg

Materiality. Material Force. Material temptation; sometimes obsession
The Devil is often a great card for business success; hard work and ambition.
Perhaps the most misunderstood of all the major arcana, the Devil is not really "Satan" at all, but Pan the half-goat nature god and/or Dionysius. These are gods of pleasure and abandon, of wild behavior and unbridled desires. This is a card about ambitions; it is also synonymous with temptation and addiction. On the flip side, however, the card can be a warning to someone who is too restrained, someone who never allows themselves to get passionate or messy or wild - or ambitious. This, too, is a form of enslavement. As a person, the Devil can stand for a man of money or erotic power, aggressive, controlling, or just persuasive. This is not to say a bad man, but certainly a powerful man who is hard to resist. The important thing is to remember that any chain is freely worn. In most cases, you are enslaved only because you allow it.



..I can't follow >.>
 

Agent Intellect

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I have a strong, traditionally based, personal belief that tarot is wrong and ugly and it offends me and my people and all we stand for when anyone claims it has any validity.
 

Lyra

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That's an asinine attempt at wit-- and it's one which somebody who had experienced the effect that equivalent kinds of appropriation have first hand wouldn't make. These are real people and communities, and real and complex systems created over years.

It isn't just about the personal: it's about how we treat others and the past. So long as we carry on with this cyclical colonisation of the other and the past which has prevailed throughout much of human history, we will remain as blind as we have been. So long as we continue to trivialise and abuse complexity with superficial signification, our own understanding will not complexify as it has the potential to do.

Leaving aside development: I think it's hard for many modern Western citizens, culturally barren as their lives are and atrophied from their own people's Traditions by atomistic materialistic society as they have been, to understand the importance of this type of thing. There's a lack of respect for heritage and its communal meaning and an arrogant rejection of the validity of ways of living that value and love who and what has gone before, and which don't involve brazenly and thoughtlessly exploiting such.
 

Agent Intellect

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Trust me, I'm aware of peoples willful obfuscation of the past to themselves, especially every year when Thanksgiving and Saturnalia roll around and I find myself in a room full of imbeciles who have bastardized the annual celebration of abominable events - the genocide of entire tribes; the gluttonous commemoration of of the winter solstice - by imbuing them with the essence of their current fairy tales. I also see people idealizing various traditions while ignoring the ugly ones and pretending that adopting them as their own enhances their own self identified meaning.

What I find amusing, though, is when people are quick to take offense to things when anyone can take offense to anything for any reason they please. I'm not making fun of tarot as much as I'm making fun of the idea of someone getting so bent out of shape about a test that, I'm sure everyone here realizes is not only an invalid indicator of personality, but is also, to put it bluntly, stupid. I don't think anyone here believes that this test is somehow representative of tarot or what tarot means to the cultures where it was formulated and practiced.
 

Words

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I'm sure everyone here realizes is not only an invalid indicator of personality, but is also, to put it bluntly, stupid. I don't think anyone here believes that this test is somehow representative of tarot or what tarot means to the cultures where it was formulated and practiced.
Think again. :) Possibility is a hard mixture to identify.
 

ashitaria

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I'm not telling you, stalker! :P
Yeah, it's trivial and fun like the hordes of new-age charlatans who exploited, trivialised, and abused Native American culture to sell low-quality products to low-quality people were fun. It's fun like British cultural colonialists who leveled-down and homogenised diverse and unique cultures in their 'spiritual syncretism' were fun. It's fun like the mindless abuse of complex and meaningful things by people who don't care to look into what those things mean to those to whose life they are essential is fun.

Really fun.

Just as long as you don't care to look at what it is you're trampling into the mud of homogeneity and triviality; just as long as you don't realise or care that these things are sacred to some people, and that you are thoughtlessly using what is sacred to them for ugly little ends.

Read this.


No. Except tangentially, as a result of changing how a person experiences life. But as a petty fortune-telling gimmick? No.

The pre-GD Tarot decks were often used for different purposes.

All of the decks used in these tests, and all of the cards posted in this thread (bar the Sphinx I posted), are directly derivative from the system used by The Holy Order of The Golden Dawn, an English Victorian esoteric society. Most of its members were aristocrats, mystics and artists. Hardly gypsies.

It was all written by somebody who doesn't understand the system they are appropriating, and who resorts to trivialisations and middle-class fluffications of something that, in its original conception, dealt with vital life. I've spent months studying the Tarot: the type of information that was posted throughout the first page of this thread is simply low-quality new-age-housewife fire-fodder.

By all means go on. It's your choice. I'm just discussing the nature of what it is that you are doing by abusing something you don't understand so that you can waste a few minutes having your ego stroked by some computer describing your personality in pseudo-mystical neo-Jungian waffle.


Whoa Whoa WHOA! Calm down. This personality test has nothing to do with the abuse of Indians or any tribe or race, and either that or you are an Indian who has taken offense to these things. Jeez. And what is essential to life isn't for you to know, if you already know the secret to life, why don't you tell us? What does tarot cards have to do with what is essential to life?

And so what if this stuff is sacred? Weren't the Gods that the people of the past created sacred to them? Yet we look back on them and see that they are primitive creatures, same with this one. And also, you are exaggerating way too much. We may be using, but we are not using for any selfish means at all. If anyone were to use American currency as their currency or as a means of decoration, who would give a fuck? Not me. This is the same thing. You are probably the only person here that gives a fuck whether this test in correct or not, and definitely the only person who takes such offense at such things.

And my questions of which were of curiosity, it is of course something that I do not understand- because I have spent only an hour's consideration on this. Unlike you, which have spent at least months studying the tarot.

And I'm sure, like Agent Intellect says, that we all have the brains to know that this is a poor indicator of personality. And thank you, I am well aware of my own ignorance and immaturity, but you should understand that you are no better.
 

Lyra

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My points stand.
 
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You are The Sun

Happiness, Content, Joy.

The meanings for the Sun are fairly simple and consistent.

Young, healthy, new, fresh. The brain is working, things that were muddled come clear, everything falls into place, and everything seems to go your way.

The Sun is ruled by the Sun, of course. This is the light that comes after the long dark night, Apollo to the Moon's Diana. A positive card, it promises you; your day in the sun. Glory, gain, triumph, pleasure, truth, success. As the moon symbolized inspiration from the unconscious, from dreams, this card symbolizes discoveries made fully consciousness and wide awake. You have an understanding and enjoyment of science and math, beautifully constructed music, carefully reasoned philosophy. It is a card of intellect, clarity of mind, and feelings of youthful energy.
 

Lyra

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A DEMONSTRATION: THE CARD THE ACTUALLY DESCRIBES THE INTP

[bimgx=350]http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc159/daimonion_october/2_12PrinceofSwords.jpg[/bimgx]

Prince of Swords:

This card represents the airy part of Air. With its particular interpretation, it is intellectual, it is a picture of the Mind as such. He rules from the 21st degree of Capricorn to the 20th degree of Aquarius.

The figure of this Prince is clothed with closely woven armour adorned with definite device, and the chariot which bears him suggests (even more closely) geometrical ideas. The chariot is drawn by winged children, looking and leaping irresponsibly in any direction that takes their fancy; they are not reined, but perfectly capricious. The chariot consequently is easy enough to move, but quite unable to progress in any definite direction except by accident. This is the perfect picture of the Mind.

On the head of this Prince is, nevertheless, a child's head radiant, for there is a secret crown in the nature of this card; if consecrated, it is exactly Tipareth.

The operation of his logical mental processes have reduced the Air, which is his element, to many diverse geometrical patterns, but in these there is no real plan; they are demonstrations of the power of the Mind without definite purpose. In his right hand is a lifted sword wherewith to create, but in his left hand is a sickle, so that what he creates he instantly destroys.

A person thus symbolized is purely intellectual. He is full of ideas and designs which tumble over each other. He is a mass of ideals unrelated to practical effort. He has all the apparatus of Thought in the highest degree, intensely clever, admirably rational, but unstable of purpose, and in reality indifferent to his own ideas, as knowing that any one of them is just as good as any other. He reduced everything to unreality by removing its substance and transmuting it to and ideal world or ratiocination which is purely formal and out of relation to any facts, even those upon which it is based.

In the Yi King, the airy part of Air is represented by the 57th hexagram, Sun. This is on of the most difficult figures in the book, on account of its ambivalence: it means both flexibility and penetration.

Immensely powerful because of its complete freedom from settled principles, capable of maintaining and putting forward any conceivable argument, insusceptible to regret or remorse, glib to "quote scripture" aptly and cunningly to support any thesis soever, indifferent to the fate of a contrary argument advanced two minutes earlier, impossible to defeat because any position is as good as any other, ready to enter into combination with the nearest element available, these elusive and elastic people are of value only when firmly mastered by creative will fortified with an intelligence superior to their own. In practice, this is rarely possible: there is no purchase to be had upon them, not even by pandering to their appetites. These may nevertheless be stormy, even uncontrollable. Faddists, devotees of drink, drugs, humanitarianism, music or religion, are often in this class; but when this is the case, there is still no stability. They wander from one cult or one vice to another, always brilliantly supporting with the fanaticism of a fixed conviction what is actually no more than the whim of the moment.

It is easy to be deceived by such people; for the manifestation itself has enormous potency: it is as if an imbecile offered one of the dialogues of Plato. They may in this way acquire a great reputation both for depth and breadth of mind.

--Crowley, The Book of Thoth.
 

NothingTodo

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Im the magician!
this+intp=me




Skill, wisdom, adaptation. Craft, cunning, depending on dignity.

Eleoquent and charismatic both verbally and in writing, you are clever, witty, inventive and persuasive.

The Magician is the male power of creation, creation by willpower and desire. In that ancient sense, it is the ability to make things so just by speaking them aloud. Reflecting this is the fact that the Magician is represented by Mercury. He represents the gift of tongues, a smooth talker, a salesman. Also clever with the slight of hand and a medicine man - either a real doctor or someone trying to sell you snake oil
 

Shatokan

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You are The Chariot


Triumph, Victory, Overcoming Obstacles.

The chariot is one of the most complex cards to define. On its most basic level, it implies war, a struggle, and an eventual, hard-won victory. Either over enemies, obstacles, nature, the beasts inside you, or to just get what you want. But there is a great deal more to it. The charioteer wears emblems of the sun, yet the sign behind this card is the moon. The chariot is all about motion, and yet it is often shown as stationary. It is a union of opposites, like the black and white steeds. They pull in different directions, but must be (and can be!) made to go together in one direction. Control is required over opposing emotions, wants, needs, people, circumstances; bring them together and give them a single direction, your direction. Confidence is also needed and, most especially, motivation. The card can, in fact, indicate new motivation or inspiration, which gets a stagnant situation moving again.

Why is this everyones opposite? It defines me pretty well.



@Lyra
Look at this as a quiz with each "card" representing a set of traits.

I would never consider this accurate in telling me anything about actual tarot. If I wanted an actual tarot reading i'd get one in person.
 

Itchy Feet

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You are Strength

Courage, strength, fortitude. Power not arrested in the act of judgement, but passing on to further action, sometimes obstinacy.
This is a card of courage and energy. It represents both the Lion's hot, roaring energy, and the Maiden's steadfast will. The innocent Maiden is unafraid, undaunted, and indomitable. In some cards she opens the lion's mouth, in others she shuts it. Either way, she proves that inner strength is more powerful than raw physical strength. That forces can be controlled and used to score a victory is very close to the message of the Chariot, which might be why, in some decks, it is Justice that is card 8 instead of Strength. With strength you can control not only the situation, but yourself. It is a card about anger and impulse management, about creative answers, leadership and maintaining one's personal honor. It can also stand for a steadfast friend.

Shadow​
You are The Wheel of Fortune

Good fortune and happiness but sometimes a species of intoxication with success
The Wheel of Fortune is all about big things, luck, change, fortune. Almost always good fortune. You are lucky in all things that you do and happy with the things that come to you. Be careful that success does not go to your head however. Sometimes luck can change.
 

NothingTodo

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Wth. Im the devil....?
teriality. Material Force. Material temptation; sometimes obsession

i was a magician yesterday....
 

Luminates

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You are The Hermit

Prudence, Caution, Deliberation.
The Hermit points to all things hidden, such as knowledge and inspiration,hidden enemies. The illumination is from within, and retirement from participation in current events.
The Hermit is a card of introspection, analysis and, well, virginity. You do not desire to socialize; the card indicates, instead, a desire for peace and solitude. You prefer to take the time to think, organize, ruminate, take stock. There may be feelings of frustration and discontent but these feelings eventually lead to enlightenment, illumination, clarity.
The Hermit represents a wise, inspirational person, friend, teacher, therapist. This a person who can shine a light on things that were previously mysterious and confusing.
 

Hawkeye

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Well, what do you know...

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You are The Magician

Skill, wisdom, adaptation. Craft, cunning, depending on dignity.​

Eleoquent and charismatic both verbally and in writing, you are clever, witty, inventive and persuasive.

The Magician is the male power of creation, creation by willpower and desire. In that ancient sense, it is the ability to make things so just by speaking them aloud. Reflecting this is the fact that the Magician is represented by Mercury. He represents the gift of tongues, a smooth talker, a salesman. Also clever with the slight of hand and a medicine man - either a real doctor or someone trying to sell you snake oil.
 

saihtlen

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You are The Emperor

Stability, power, protection, realization; a great person.
The Emperor is the great authority figure of the Tarot, so it represents fathers, father-figures and employers. There is a lot of aggression and violence too.
The Emperor naturally follows the Empress. Like an infant, he is filled with enthuiasm, energy, aggression. He is direct, guileless and all too often irresistible. Unfortunately, like a baby he can also be a tyrant. Impatient, demanding, controlling. In the best of circumstances, he signifies the leader that everyone wants to follow, sitting on a throne that indicates the solid foundation of an Empire he created, loves and rules with intelligence and enthusiasm. But that throne can also be a trap, a responsibility that has the Emperor feeling restless, bored and discontent.


 

Sparrow

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You are The Fool

Idea, thought, spirituality, that which endeavours to rise above the material.

The Fool is the card of infinite possibilities. The bag on the staff indicates that he has all he need to do or be anything he wants, he has only to stop and unpack. He is on his way to a brand new beginning. But the card carries a little bark of warning as well. Stop daydreaming and fantasising and watch your step, lest you fall and end up looking the fool.
 

addictedartist

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Devil , took it again and got deathX)
 

s0nystyle

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You are The Sun

Happiness, Content, Joy.

The meanings for the Sun are fairly simple and consistent.

Young, healthy, new, fresh. The brain is working, things that were muddled come clear, everything falls into place, and everything seems to go your way.

The Sun is ruled by the Sun, of course. This is the light that comes after the long dark night, Apollo to the Moon's Diana. A positive card, it promises you your day in the sun. Glory, gain, triumph, pleasure, truth, success. As the moon symbolized inspiration from the unconscious, from dreams, this card symbolizes discoveries made fully consciousness and wide awake. You have an understanding and enjoyment of science and math, beautifully constructed music, carefully reasoned philosophy. It is a card of intellect, clarity of mind, and feelings of youthful energy.


Easy. Not surprised either.
 

snafupants

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You are The Hierophant

Divine Wisdom. Manifestation. Explanation. Teaching.
All things relating to education, patience, help from superiors.The Hierophant is often considered to be a Guardian Angel.
The Hierophant's purpose is to bring the spiritual down to Earth. Where the High Priestess between her two pillars deals with realms beyond this Earth, the Hierophant (or High Priest) deals with worldly problems. He is well suited to do this because he strives to create harmony and peace in the midst of a crisis. The Hierophant's only problem is that he can be stubborn and hidebound. At his best, he is wise and soothing, at his worst, he is an unbending traditionalist.
 

S_and_N

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Wow, this fits. I've been having really good intuition lately....

You are The Moon

Hope, expectation, Bright promises.

The Moon is a card of magic and mystery - when prominent you know that nothing is as it seems, particularly when it concerns relationships. All logic is thrown out the window.

The Moon is all about visions and illusions, madness, genius and poetry. This is a card that has to do with sleep, and so with both dreams and nightmares. It is a scary card in that it warns that there might be hidden enemies, tricks and falsehoods. But it should also be remembered that this is a card of great creativity, of powerful magic, primal feelings and intuition. You may be going through a time of emotional and mental trial; if you have any past mental problems, you must be vigilant in taking your medication but avoid drugs or alcohol, as abuse of either will cause them irreparable damage. This time however, can also result in great creativity, psychic powers, visions and insight. You can and should trust your intuition.
 

pjoa09

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You are The Devil


strange i am INTP


 

Anchorite

I trusted you Steve Guttenberg!
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You are The Fool

Idea, thought, spirituality, that which endeavours to rise above the material.
The Fool is the card of infinite possibilities. The bag on the staff indicates that he has all he need to do or be anything he wants, he has only to stop and unpack. He is on his way to a brand new beginning. But the card carries a little bark of warning as well. Stop daydreaming and fantasising and watch your step, lest you fall and end up looking the fool.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
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You are The Star




Hope, expectation, Bright promises.
The Star is one of the great cards of faith, dreams realised

The Star is a card that looks to the future. It does not predict any immediate or powerful change, but it does predict hope and healing. This card suggests clarity of vision, spiritual insight. And, most importantly, that unexpected help will be coming, with water to quench your thirst, with a guiding light to the future. They might say you're a dreamer, but you're not the only one.
 

Magnetosphere

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My result:

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You are The Hermit

Prudence, Caution, Deliberation.

The Hermit points to all things hidden, such as knowledge and inspiration,hidden enemies. The illumination is from within, and retirement from participation in current events.

The Hermit is a card of introspection, analysis and, well, virginity. You do not desire to socialize; the card indicates, instead, a desire for peace and solitude. You prefer to take the time to think, organize, ruminate, take stock. There may be feelings of frustration and discontent but these feelings eventually lead to enlightenment, illumination, clarity.


The Hermit represents a wise, inspirational person, friend, teacher, therapist. This a person who can shine a light on things that were previously mysterious and confusing.


My "shadow"/inverse:

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You are The Chariot

Triumph, Victory, Overcoming Obstacles.

The chariot is one of the most complex cards to define. On its most basic level, it implies war, a struggle, and an eventual, hard-won victory. Either over enemies, obstacles, nature, the beasts inside you, or to just get what you want. But there is a great deal more to it. The charioteer wears emblems of the sun, yet the sign behind this card is the moon. The chariot is all about motion, and yet it is often shown as stationary. It is a union of opposites, like the black and white steeds. They pull in different directions, but must be (and can be!) made to go together in one direction. Control is required over opposing emotions, wants, needs, people, circumstances; bring them together and give them a single direction, your direction. Confidence is also needed and, most especially, motivation. The card can, in fact, indicate new motivation or inspiration, which gets a stagnant situation moving again.
 

mke2686

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You are the Hanged Man

Self-sacrifice, Sacrifice, Devotion, Bound.

With the Hanged man there is often a sense of fatalism, waiting for something to happen. Or a fear of loss from a situation, rather than gain.

The Hanged Man is perhaps the most fascinating card in the deck. It reflects the story of Odin who offered himself as a sacrifice in order to gain knowledge. Hanging from the world tree, wounded by a spear, given no bread or mead, he hung for nine days. On the last day, he saw on the ground runes that had fallen from the tree, understood their meaning, and, coming down, scooped them up for his own. All knowledge is to be found in these runes.

The Hanged Man, in similar fashion, is a card about suspension, not life or death. It signifies selflessness, sacrifice and prophecy. You make yourself vulnerable and in doing so, gain illumination. You see the world differently, with almost mystical insights.
 

Taniwha

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You are The Hermit

Prudence, Caution, Deliberation.

The Hermit points to all things hidden, such as knowledge and inspiration, hidden enemies.

The illumination is from within, and retirement from participation in current events.

The Hermit is a card of introspection, analysis and, well, virginity. You do not desire to socialize; the card indicates, instead, a desire for peace and solitude. You prefer to take the time to think, organize, ruminate, take stock. There may be feelings of frustration and discontent but these feelings eventually lead to enlightenment, illumination, clarity.


The Hermit represents a wise, inspirational person, friend, teacher, therapist. This a person who can shine a light on things that were previously mysterious and confusing.



 

ScorpioINTP

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Cool link

You are The Hermit

">
9.jpg
You are The Hermit

Prudence, Caution, Deliberation.
The Hermit points to all things hidden, such as knowledge and inspiration,hidden enemies. The illumination is from within, and retirement from participation in current events.
The Hermit is a card of introspection, analysis and, well, virginity. You do not desire to socialize; the card indicates, instead, a desire for peace and solitude. You prefer to take the time to think, organize, ruminate, take stock. There may be feelings of frustration and discontent but these feelings eventually lead to enlightenment, illumination, clarity.
The Hermit represents a wise, inspirational person, friend, teacher, therapist. This a person who can shine a light on things that were previously mysterious and confusing.
What Tarot Card are You?
Take the Test to Find Out.
 
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