What 'Outside' World?

[Da Blob]

"Orientation to the Outer World:" Judging (J) / Perception (P)


Myers and Briggs added a fourth scale (J-P) to Jung's typological model by identifying that people also have a preference for using either the Perceiving function (Sensing or iNtuition) or the Judging function (Thinking or Feeling) when relating to the outside world (Extraversion).

Those who prefer the Judging functions (Thinking or Feeling) prefer the decision process and are classified as "J", while those who prefer the information-gathering process are said to have a preference for P (Perceiving) and are sorted as "P." According to Myers, Judging types prefer to "have matters settled" while Perceiving types may like to "keep their options open."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_Loop

I use the OODA loop (Observation, Orientation, Decision-making & Action-taking) to teach people How to think, it is a bare bones approach to problem solving.

I just noticed that the two middle steps of this problem solving formula seem to form the boundary between the Ps and Js as well.


So, this is my question, if Js "rush to Judgment" (D stage) and Ps don't make decisions because on the focus on multiple POVs inherent in the process of Orientation (Stage 2), which types are best at the other two stages, Observation and Taking action, in this "Outside world" Scenario?
I mean if the 4th scale were created to deal with the "Outside" world , would not Observation and Taking Actions (steps 1 and 4 of the OODA loop) provide a wider continuum to scale?

OH!, BTW, Exactly what is this "Outside World" they talk about?

 

[Madoness]

Uhmm.... that is why these 16 characteristics (am I right?) are not just based on one or two factors, but on carefully analyzed four factors there are and many what are not. And how these factors that communicate with each other and formulate something greater systematic as observation.


(Don't mind me, I'm drunk again)

 

[Da Blob]

But you do some of your best posts when you're drunk.

I appreciate your response. I am not even sure what I am asking. Of course it is a little too late, but I was just wondering if the J/P differentiation was the best fit for a 4th scale. I'm mean Jung just had 8 personality styles...

It seems that the 4th scale indirectly highlights preferences in problem solving technique...
I mean that's the content of thought - problems of one kind or another...

EDIT: I guess I'm wondering if there needs to be a 5th Scale added to the MBTI, and if so what should it be???

 

[sagewolf]

There's already a really recent thread about that (a fifth function) somewhere or other around here.

Those who prefer the Judging functions (Thinking or Feeling) prefer the decision process and are classified as "J", while those who prefer the information-gathering process are said to have a preference for P (Perceiving) and are sorted as "P." According to Myers, Judging types prefer to "have matters settled" while Perceiving types may like to "keep their options open."

Ah, but we're Ps with dominant Ti, aren't we?

When you said Ps use their perceiving functions to interact with the outside world and Js use their judging function for the same thing, that was essentially right. Js make decisions easily, because as long as the idea works in practice, it's complete (or at least acceptable) in their eyes. If it works, it works, and that's the matter settled. Since a P's judging process is internal, they evaluate and construct ideas from theory-- which means every time a new piece of theory comes in, the entire idea has to be re-examined to see if it's still sound.

Observation sounds like the intake of information; Orientation like the organisation of it, Decision making like the the development of a complete and sound hypothesis, and action-taking like actually implementing it.

I'd say the OO relies on S/N. Action-taking is probably dependent on whether it's concrete results or just abstract knowledge that interests you: someone else can have a stab at trying to explain that, because I'm confusing myself with it. It may be linked to E/I, since extraverts enjoy interacting with the world and introverts prefer to withdraw from it.

I would note that OODA is a decision-making process/system that is either taught to people actively or instinctive (apparently): the MBTI types people depending on how they prefer to behave, and why, in any given situation.

 

[Da Blob]

Thanks for the input!
Okay re: Outside World
It seems to me that I have two different strategies/mindsets when dealing with the outside world. One is organized around objects and objective problems (Such as repairing a car)
The other is my 'social' mindset, my so-called personality or lack thereof...
I can't help but see a personality as nothing other than a collection of 'masks' or personas, one puts on in differing social settings -perhaps as an elaborate 'Defense mechanism'?

I am not my personality or am I?

 

[sagewolf]

I see my personality as my sense of self, my sense of who I intrinsically am regardless of external influences and situations. But I agree that we show different sides of ourselves around different people or groups of people, around casual friends or trusted friends, pets, parents, co-workers, strangers on the street-- all of these people would have a different impression of us.

I find that last question baffling-- if I'm not my personality, then who can I possibly be?

 

[Da Blob]

I see my personality as my sense of self, my sense of who I intrinsically am regardless of external influences and situations. But I agree that we show different sides of ourselves around different people or groups of people, around casual friends or trusted friends, pets, parents, co-workers, strangers on the street-- all of these people would have a different impression of us.

I find that last question baffling-- if I'm not my personality, then who can I possibly be?

Good reply. The term, 'Sense of Self', doesn't get enough attention paid to it, as it is a pivotal POV...

Again, minor Identity crisis, to rephrase the question, "Does Person = Person'ality'?"