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What makes a human free.

ZenRaiden

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I mean politically people talk about the concept of freedom in very loose sense.

However the question is.... how the ef do we know we are free people?
 

rlnb

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Not to go all spiritual woo on you, but..
freedom is the extent to which I am untouched by my circumstances and ultimate freedom might be when there is no 'I'.
 

Black Rose

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I have an inner sense of control.
I could go wild at any moment, sticks out tongue.
 

Cognisant

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To use my time as I wish.
 

Ex-User (14663)

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Even a slave has all kinds of freedoms - he can rebel against his master, maybe even kill his master, or maybe even kill himself. Freedom is almost invariably a state of mind.
 

Cognisant

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So if I make you my slave that's alright then, I mean so long as you still have freedom of thought you're still free right?
 

ZenRaiden

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Not to go all spiritual woo on you, but..
freedom is the extent to which I am untouched by my circumstances and ultimate freedom might be when there is no 'I'.
Even a slave has all kinds of freedoms - he can rebel against his master, maybe even kill his master, or maybe even kill himself. Freedom is almost invariably a state of mind.
Are you saying I can be free only in my mind?
 

ZenRaiden

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To use my time as I wish.

So you basically want to be allowed to do anything you want and that is the only way you can be free? What about rules and restrictions and laws imposed on us- Are they wrong then?
 

The Grey Man

το φως εν τη σκοτια φαινει
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To use my time as I wish.

If we're talking about freedom in a loose, political sense, this is close to how I would define it as well. If I can choose between work and leisure, between an active life and a contemplative life, according to my personal preference without being forced into one or the other by economic pressure, then I am free.

So you basically want to be allowed to do anything you want and that is the only way you can be free? What about rules and restrictions and laws imposed on us- Are they wrong then?

I can't answer for Cog, but what I have in mind is not absolute power, but the condition of being able to pursue one's interests without denying the same condition to others. It is a conception of freedom compatible with scientific determinism, a liberty of spontaneity defined as a relation of one's body to other physical objects.

Metaphysical freedom—or, as we might say, the freedom that belongs not the body, but to the soul—differs from liberty spontaneity in that it is not a relation between objects of cognition, but inheres in the act of cognition itself; it is to be identified with Kant's synthetic unity of apperception or the collapse of the wave function in quantum physics.

Experience illuminates us with knowledge of matter from which, by abstractive reflection, me may derive indirect knowledge of ourselves as the formal conditions of said experience, but we are left in the dark as to how or why the experience is, if such questions are even meaningful (I strongly suspect that they are not).

Wittgenstein said:
Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is.

Why am I me instead of you? Answer this question and you will have solved the riddle of freedom.
 

ZenRaiden

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If we're talking about freedom in a loose, political sense, this is close to how I would define it as well. If I can choose between work and leisure, between an active life and a contemplative life, according to my personal preference without being forced into one or the other by economic pressure, then I am free.

How can you be free from economical pressure in society where everything has a price tag?
You are free to taken an apple so is the other man. You both are free so get the apple you are pursuing?
 

ZenRaiden

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Why am I me instead of you? Answer this question and you will have solved the riddle of freedom.

Assuming its a riddle and the answer is not the fact I am physically different from you I dont really know the answer.
 

rlnb

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Not to go all spiritual woo on you, but..
freedom is the extent to which I am untouched by my circumstances and ultimate freedom might be when there is no 'I'.
Even a slave has all kinds of freedoms - he can rebel against his master, maybe even kill his master, or maybe even kill himself. Freedom is almost invariably a state of mind.
Are you saying I can be free only in my mind?

If there is no freedom 'inside'( I think the 'inside' is deeper than the mind but thats a discussion for another day), any amount of external freedom (lots of money, living in a free society etc) doesn't mean a thing and with a great amount of 'inside' freedom one can tolerate a lot of external slavery (not 100% though)
 

Cognisant

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To use my time as I wish.

So you basically want to be allowed to do anything you want and that is the only way you can be free? What about rules and restrictions and laws imposed on us- Are they wrong then?
There are varying degrees of freedom, the biological need to defecate uses up my time but it's a necessary evil I must endure to continue living as dying of constipation to save time would be counterproductive.

Laws restrict my freedom but in the absence of laws my freedom would only exist insofar as whatever tyrant that emerges from that anarchy allows it, even if I were said tyrant the demands of tyranny itself would put restrictions upon me.

I sacrifice my freedom when doing so protects my freedom, we all do, it's the great sociopolitical problem of the 21st century, how do we maximize both our freedoms and the protection of those freedoms?
 
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