What is the true nature of Introversion?

[Black Rose]

What is Introversion really?
I do not talk to myself in my head.
I do not see things in my head.
I seem to feel nothing in my body.
The only thing I get is like / dislike preferences.
I do not have the traits steeming from introversion it seems.

I have a question:
What is introversion all about.
Thanks

 

[machine1000]

maybe your just depressed....i feel like i live inside my head. occasionally breaching out of the water into reality. even the external is merely data for the inside. i saw a homeless guy the other day and i went and sat down next to him. not because i gave a crap. but because he looked like an interesting source of input

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

I feel like that’s an idea everyone of us sometimes gets - the anticipation that a bum has wisdom since they have been living on the street and observed the world, accumulated deep insights. In reality they are just dumb-ass bums, and that’s why they are living on the street to begin with lmao

 

[rlnb]

I do not talk to myself in my head.
I do not see things in my head.

Your inner thought and feelings need not have a verbal or visual from. The fact that you spend a lot of time 'inside' and prefer to do so is the sign of introversion.

A better way to look at it might be inward facing attention vs outward facing attention.

 

[Black Rose]

A better way to look at it might be inward facing attention vs outward facing attention.

The problem is I do not know what part of me is facing inward and what part of me is facing outward. My attention all seems to be outward-facing attention. (or basically I cannot tell in from out attention)

 

[lightfire]

i saw a homeless guy the other day and i went and sat down next to him. not because i gave a crap. but because he looked like an interesting source of input

That's really cool.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

I think it’s when your brain works as a recurrent neural net. I.e. when you have a thought in your brain, that thought can go back into your brain for assessment, and then that assessment can be assessed and so on. I.e. you don’t need another person to respond to your thoughts.

A wacky thought I just had while waiting for my sushi.

 

[Black Rose]

I think it’s when your brain works as a recurrent neural net. I.e. when you have a thought in your brain, that thought can go back into your brain for assessment, and then that assessment can be assessed and so on. I.e. you don’t need another person to respond to your thoughts.

A wacky thought I just had while waiting for my sushi.

Often I tell people my mind is stuck all the time. That could be a lack of recurrence? I feel horrible sitting around doing nothing like I am now. I wish I could hold thoughts in my mind and work with them. I cannot self respond all too well.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

I think it’s when your brain works as a recurrent neural net. I.e. when you have a thought in your brain, that thought can go back into your brain for assessment, and then that assessment can be assessed and so on. I.e. you don’t need another person to respond to your thoughts.

A wacky thought I just had while waiting for my sushi.

Often I tell people my mind is stuck all the time. That could be a lack of recurrence? I feel horrible sitting around doing nothing like I am now. I wish I could hold thoughts in my mind and work with them. I cannot self respond all too well.

Stuck in what sense?

 

[Black Rose]

Stuck in what sense?

I try to think and it doesn't happen.
I try to hold a thought and I can't.
Thinking is just something I have a problem performing.
Everything goes black when I even begin to try to get a thought to go recurrent on itself.

I have a static blank mind. Nothing comes up. Unable to mentally manipulate thought.

I think out loud to other people. No internal thought happens for me.

I sit in bed, and nothing happens.

 

[Black Rose]

I think I understand how recurrency works.
You either look directly ahead or to the periphery.
On target or off-target or no target.
Release of anxiety or buildup of anxiety.
It begins with the center and periphery.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I never understood really what is introversion or extroversion. More or less I get the idea how we supposed to act if or why its this and not that, but for whatever reason the concept seems shallow and neglect more important factors.

I mean what is the relationship with introversion and extroversion related to

agression
reaction time
impulsivity
social skills

and what about for example the fact some people are hyperreactive to one kind of stimuli and hyporeactive to other kind of stimuli.

I mean are generally introverts more observant or extroverts more observant and if so why. If there is no difference why introverts need so much more warm up time.

 

[rlnb]

A better way to look at it might be inward facing attention vs outward facing attention.

The problem is I do not know what part of me is facing inward and what part of me is facing outward. My attention all seems to be outward-facing attention. (or basically I cannot tell in from out attention)

I have a static blank mind. Nothing comes up. Unable to mentally manipulate thought.

I think out loud to other people. No internal thought happens for me.

I sit in bed, and nothing happens.

What you describe : a blank mind devoid of thought , an absence of separation between inside and outside etc can be signs of transcendence.
In what way is this causing a problem? An absence of thought i would presume would result in great peace and joy.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

Stuck in what sense?

I try to think and it doesn't happen.
I try to hold a thought and I can't.
Thinking is just something I have a problem performing.
Everything goes black when I even begin to try to get a thought to go recurrent on itself.

I have a static blank mind. Nothing comes up. Unable to mentally manipulate thought.

I think out loud to other people. No internal thought happens for me.

I sit in bed, and nothing happens.

I have obviously no clue what I'm talking about but to me that sounds like a noradrenaline issue (or some other neurotransmitter relating to focus). What happens if you drink coffee?

 

[Black Rose]

What you describe : a blank mind devoid of thought , an absence of separation between inside and outside etc can be signs of transcendence.
In what way is this causing a problem? An absence of thought i would presume would result in great peace and joy.

When I cannot think I get anxiety about it. My head does not clear up at all. Maybe I need to meditate.

I have obviously no clue what I'm talking about but to me that sounds like a noradrenaline issue (or some other neurotransmitter relating to focus). What happens if you drink coffee?

I drink coffee and energy drinks sometimes but I do not get a buzz that high.

My metabolism (liver/kidney) flushes toxins real fast. At the dentist, the dentist was doing another patient and the numbness of the anesthetic wore off in 20 minutes when it should have lasted 20 hours and they had to reapply it to me. I did not get hurt or anything, it wore off when she first applied it and took off to the other patient and I told her to reapply it.

 

[moody]

Often I tell people my mind is stuck all the time. That could be a lack of recurrence? I feel horrible sitting around doing nothing like I am now. I wish I could hold thoughts in my mind and work with them. I cannot self respond all too well.

I try to think and it doesn't happen.
I try to hold a thought and I can't.
Thinking is just something I have a problem performing.
Everything goes black when I even begin to try to get a thought to go recurrent on itself.

I have a static blank mind. Nothing comes up. Unable to mentally manipulate thought.

I think out loud to other people. No internal thought happens for me.

I sit in bed, and nothing happens.

Dude. I know EXACTLY how you feel.

This probably isn't "introversion." It sounds like the symptoms of extreme, chronic fatigue; this can cause neurochemical imbalances in dopamine and seretonin (your "rewards system") and make your mental organization and processing complete wack. You cannot respond to people the same way when these systems are down, so it will feel or look a lot like social aversion or anxiety.

What are your sleep cycles like? How much do you sleep, how much do you wake up at night, how much do you dream, and do you have any sleep disturbances? (I.e., sleep paralysis, hypnogognic hallucinations, etc).

 

[Pizzabeak]

Since life is about breathing air, introversion/extroversion can be traced to organisms’s breathing patterns in the grand design. Everything has pretty much been determined already, multiverses included, so all that karma and interactions have happened already, in order for anything else to happen. Through breathing, in other words talking when you talk, can determine how a multiverse will play out. Everything is a piece of the puzzle. People play their role as E or I, being a dimensional representation of ideas. History can be said to be constantly being defined, toward the future, although that isn’t the same as history being erased or altered in anyway. We all know what intelligence is or the potential it has, despite anyone trying to define it their own way or make it mean what they want it to mean. You don’t have to be the sandwich board or tin foil hat man, nor the man in isolation on a mountain seeking enlightenment or the answers.

Say there’s a girl sitting down. You can talk to her, or not. Directly, there’s more a chance of anything being faster whereas indirectly, it makes her approach you, then again, the “guy has to talk to the girl first”. It’s in someone’s best interest to not have expectations or force something, so that no one really knows what could happen so they don’t come off as desperate. If you don’t talk to her she threatens to talk to someone else instead. If you do talk to her, she can still talk to someone instead. So it doesn’t make sense, breathing isn’t really the only way to communicate a message. Most people didn’t study physics so use unrealistic and impossible expectations as proof that there’s some ultimate God or greener grass.

 

[Black Rose]

What are your sleep cycles like? How much do you sleep, how much do you wake up at night, how much do you dream, and do you have any sleep disturbances? (I.e., sleep paralysis, hypnogognic hallucinations, etc).

Cycles fluctuate day to night. I sleep as much as I need I stay asleep as much as I need. I dream but forget them. I do not have sleep disturbances.

 

[Black Rose]

I am trying to learn how to listen. It seems to be working, I have much better clarity of the senses. What I learned is ho to let go and go into my core. Music is so much louder. It allows me to feel it emotionally. I just have to let go. to listen. Feels warm and tingly. and moving slowly yet mindfully.

I am generating energy/awareness from the inside and it helps me absorb outside energy.

 

[darque]

Hi Animekitty, just looking at your profile you have listed as INTJ which gives you Ni or introverted intuition as your dominant function this is not a judging function so your resting state will be perceptive in nature.

Your second function, and first primary judging function is extroverted thinking. The extroverted functions are affiliative as they keep us objective by maintaining a connection into the outside world. My theory is that these are subconscious as they are axially linked to our introverted judging function.

As consciousness is embodied, we only directly experience the introverted functions. However due to the axial linking between introverted and extroverted functions the introverted functions maintain a synchronised map of the extroverted so we manipulate and experience the external world through these interfaces.

Your tertiary position is Fi so this it your main conscious tool for decision making. Fi is often confused with emotion but it is value based or holistic judgements from a subjective standpoint. It is where morality is formed ie. subjective good / bad judgements. Fe is ethical or objective good / bad judgements. This is the meaning of introverted / extroverted that was also discussed above.

finally your inferior slot is Se or extroverted sensation. This gives you awareness of your local environment. It is not the data received from our senses directly but pre-processed information. I am assuming this is what Te is doing see here where I tried to work through my opinions on this.

Then there is all the shadow functions that are the inverse of everything you normally use in your ego. This includes introverted thinking in the second shadow slot which is the primary for the INTP. You have it and can access but mehhh, you actually use it as a QC check against Te; you will get a sense of it as your internal critic.

It is difficult to get a clear sense of others cognition as we are always bias by our own and others methods can appear unbelievably clunky. INTP for example use Ti for manipulating complex problems which is our forte, but at the expense of efficiency because our thinking is usually on manual. It slows us down but gives us accuracy.

The best I can understand you just point and go as Ni gives you the innate sense of where you need to go, what you are going to do in life, the best next step etc. INTPs criticise themselves (Ni is our critic) for not knowing what colour underpants to wear... mine are all black by the way to combat that problem

Hope that helps / makes sense. Its hard to grasp some of these concepts as they are very abstract so require a fair bit of head rewiring before you get a sense of how they fit together it is logical, but as they are entangled all we sense is the resultant harmonic. Feel free to ask questions.

 

[moody]

Cycles fluctuate day to night. I sleep as much as I need I stay asleep as much as I need. I dream but forget them. I do not have sleep disturbances.

I forgot to respond!

That sounds fairly normal, so I suppose that largely rules out fatigue causing your experiences. It is mostly likely a form of anxiety or depression, but I probably couldn't tell you anything you don't already know about yourself.

If this is of any use to you:

(These are some of my personal observations of those with a form of anxiety/depression, plus reflections of myself when I've been in a slump).
Depression and anxiety are the most ironic ailments; the thought patter that perpetuates when one finds themselves in a slump usually surround adverse feelings about oneself. Yet, without breaking that cycle of thinking, you find yourself caught up in the whirlwind, unable to think about anyone but yourself, thus unable to connect.

For anxiety, there is an outward stimuli that triggers the anxiousness. The anxiety will make someone think so much about themselves that they are unable to ever be present or responsive to someone else. This is how anxiety will trap someone inside themselves. You end up, in a way, doing exactly what you don't want to do.

For Depression, individuals often project thoughts/feelings that are opposite of what they actually need or want. Because other people rarely think about others, they'll usually see this projection and figure that the said person should be left alone. Once, I had a friend who suddenly stopped talking to me in class, and was acting more irritable and subdued. My first reaction was thinking if I did something wrong; then I realized that it was more likely the other person wasn't okay rather than that I'd offended them. Despite my instincts wanting to take personal blame for another feelings, I put what I felt aside, told them I noticed they were more subdued and asked them if they were okay. Low and behold, they opened up to me and said they struggled with depression and were having a tough bout of it. They were immensely grateful, and told me I was the only one who noticed and bothered to ask.

I am trying to learn how to listen. It seems to be working, I have much better clarity of the senses. What I learned is ho to let go and go into my core. Music is so much louder. It allows me to feel it emotionally. I just have to let go. to listen. Feels warm and tingly. and moving slowly yet mindfully.

I am generating energy/awareness from the inside and it helps me absorb outside energy.

That is great! Doing this has also helped me get out of the spiraling vortex of my own thoughts. I will literally sit for hours doing something repetitive if I don't start filling my thoughts with my stimuli instead of my own worries. I call this applied meditation. It was after a few times of practicing this that I really understood the saying "all is one." I don't think it's possible to fully comprehend that until we stop thinking about ourselves. We're programed to think like we're autonomous beings, when nothing exists independently in suspended animation.
Has it still been working for you?

 

[Black Rose]

Has it still been working for you?

I have an emotional blockage that I need to get over.
I need to bring up painful memories and feel them not ignore them.
I need the willpower to be more flexible.
It has been working out.

I need to feel sad.
I have a handle with my anxiety.

I believe Jungian Type could be about how energy circulates in the brain.

 

[dragula]

I have an emotional blockage that I need to get over.
I need to bring up painful memories and feel them not ignore them.
I need the willpower to be more flexible.
It has been working out.

I need to feel sad.
I have a handle with my anxiety.

I believe Jungian Type could be about how energy circulates in the brain.

Can you perhaps explain a bit on where you feel the emotional blockage, if that is ok for you?

On a psychological level, when dealing with negative emotions, our brain/body reacts by adressing past negative emotions to react physically and emotionally on the current negative experience (eg. you get fixed in an negative emotional/physical loop).

So it's important to focus and fix on this blockage so you won't get drained by it.

Also interested in your reasoning on Jungian Types and energy circulation.

 

[darque]

@dragula, well done for getting to this one. I was going to call you in. Because Animekitty is identifying with INTJ, you will have better perspective. Ni is all voodoo and quite flawed for me.

 

[Black Rose]

Can you perhaps explain a bit on where you feel the emotional blockage, if that is ok for you?

Mostly the brain stem and the limbic system. The cortex as well. All and all where emotions are processed. The thalamus is most important for experiencing crying.

 

[dragula]

Can you perhaps explain a bit on where you feel the emotional blockage, if that is ok for you?

Mostly the brain stem and the limbic system. The cortex as well. All and all where emotions are processed. The thalamus is most importantp for experiencing crying.

Ha, in the literal sense, ok. Doesn’t the amygdala play a role in this as well?

@dragula, well done for getting to this one. I was going to call you in. Because Animekitty is identifying with INTJ, you will have better perspective. Ni is all voodoo and quite flawed for me.

Aha, an INTJ woman, the rarest type.

 

[Black Rose]

Ha, in the literal sense, ok. Doesn’t the amygdala play a role in this as well?

The whole brain network works on inhibition and excitation. My inability to cry would mean the amygdala is inhibited by another part of the brain. It could be that anxiety is the culprit. In the amygdala, anxiety is inhibiting sadness. I can feel the pressure of what there is built up.

I think the reason I cannot release sadness is that, the reason I am sad is I am romantically alone. I need a shoulder to cry on and needs to be someone I really love who understands me.

I cannot cry because I am unloved and not understood in an intimate personal way.
I am sure all that has a cause, both psychological and biological.

 

[dragula]

I understand. You’re internalizing a lot of your feelings, am I correct? Stacking them up internally which gives a sense of relief, yet your body has a tense sensation. (I was there as well). It’s both physical and psychological (emotional).

 

[Black Rose]

Trauma can also come out as anxiety. Since anxiety results from lack of escape. Unable to escape is a scary emotion. Anxiety is the escape route. Twisting, turning and contorting. This happens to a certain extent but is trama we do not know why we are anxious. It just hovers over us with no explanation. Pacing back and forth. Related to OCD. Not Good.

Fidgeting is one of my coping mechanisms. (for relief)
Sometimes I cannot hold it inside so it externally expresses itself.
By resisting my natural internal feelings the anxiety gets stronger.

The consequence is crying induces trama.
To hold myself together I had to not be emotional.
Don't be angry, sad, afraid.
Just feel them quietly
Be neutral on everything.

The consequences for emotion is rejection. Anxiety keeps emotions inside of me.
I had to be alone emotionally because that way people will at least not leave.

 

[dragula]

Seems you understand your situation. Anxiety is a reactive mix of emotions. It is a reactional flight state behavior that your body does when experiencing negative emotions (triggered through the amygdala).

Going to give you a couple links, as you are an INTJ . In essence, you are experiencing a negative emotional feedback loop (experience - emotion - thoughts - behavior , looping). Currently om my phone but I will come back to you, promise.

What are Negative Emotions and How to Control Them?

Negative emotions - what causes them, their effects, and how to use them.

positivepsychology.com

Emotional Memories Function In Self-Reinforcing Loop

Researchers exploring the brain structures involved in recalling an emotional memory a year later have found evidence for a self-reinforcing "memory loop" -- in which the brain's emotional center triggers the memory center, which in turn further enhances activity in the emotional center.

www.sciencedaily.com

The Cognitive Emotive Loop: What it is, Why it Keeps you Stuck, and How to Break Free | Conscious Leadership Group Blog

Read The Cognitive Emotive Loop: What it is, Why it Keeps you Stuck, and How to Break Free write about

conscious.is

 

[dragula]

Ok so, Animekitty, if you wan't I can help you with the step by step process of getting out of the loop. The feeling of Anxiety will slowly abide with it.

 

[Black Rose]

My anxiety is directionless. It does not connect to my inner voice/monologue.
I do not narrate my life in my head. If I like/dislike something I just feel it.
I am numb at the thalamus. Anxiety goes through the thalamus triggering fight/flight tension.

resistance to anxiety is bad yet there is nowhere to go.
I am diagnosed with general anxiety disorder. (GAD)

music helps because of a connection to it.
it helps attention

attention is the problem.
we can project attention outward or inward.
but it gets tangled up in our brain.
a cornered rat needs milk and cheese and more space.
the more stress it has the more sporadic it becomes.

Ok so, Animekitty, if you wan't I can help you with the step by step process of getting out of the loop. The feeling of Anxiety will slowly abide with it.

I will try it.

 

[moody]

I have an emotional blockage that I need to get over.
I need to bring up painful memories and feel them not ignore them.
I need the willpower to be more flexible.
It has been working out.

I need to feel sad.
I have a handle with my anxiety.

This is difficult to do by yourself, so don't be too hard on yourself.

I can't know you or what you've been through personally, so I will explain some of my emotional growth, and maybe it could give you some tools to analyze yourself with.

I used to be so augmented from my feelings I would never be aware that I had them, nor would be able to identify them. My reactions and thoughts are so succinctly separate from my body and expressions.
When I look back on myself, I can see that I had a severe anxiety I was oblivious to; I processed reactions/feelings so differently than other people, and my way of being anxious or upset was moving slowly and being quiet. I don't think I was only anxious, but for me, there was a blockage between my experiences, my reactions, and how I felt. Everything was separated.

In my last couple years in high school, I started getting bad symptoms along with a lot of changes in my personal life. The next that separated everything in my mind started decomposing (metaphorically), and I started feeling things in the present moment. This was because I was under severe physical and psychological stress, and thus had no more stamina to keep up the mental blockage I hadn't known I put up in the first place.

I had to confront many things about myself and how I feel, because if I didn't, it would swallow me whole.

But here's the thing most people get wrong about emotions:
It is not something you passively "allow" yourself to do. You have to actively force yourself to experience an emotion in the present tense to be able to express it.
When unconsciously dividing your emotions from your conscious mind, this will take a conscious effort. You aren't going to one day just "let yourself cry." You have to find something to make yourself sad enough *to* cry, and to think about how sad it is over and over again until you're wallowing. It won't just "come to you."

You have to stop making logical reasoning on why it would be unproductive or a waste of energy to get upset about something. You must acknowledge something is a big deal, that you have every right to be upset, and then get upset about it.

This is the biggest misconception about the experience of emotions. You have to train yourself to feel them by exposing yourself over and over again to emotional situations. It's only once you learn how to deal with those emotional stimuli after forcing yourself to respond emotionally that you develop your emotional intelligence.

I'm different because my demons weren't lying dormant, but started chasing me, where I could no longer reason my way out of getting upset about something because I couldn't physically take any more. Emotions had to hit me over the head over and over again, but I'm better at dealing with this crap now because I've learned how to react to things without sheer rationalization. But even then, it had to be through me taking an active step to yell/verbally combat someone when they offended me, cry about something, etc., because these are active behaviors. Without them, you loose the means how to justify the space you take up.

 

[dragula]

But here's the thing most people get wrong about emotions:
It is not something you passively "allow" yourself to do. You have to actively force yourself to experience an emotion in the present tense to be able to express it.
When unconsciously dividing your emotions from your conscious mind, this will take a conscious effort. You aren't going to one day just "let yourself cry." You have to find something to make yourself sad enough *to* cry, and to think about how sad it is over and over again until you're wallowing. It won't just "come to you."

You have to stop making logical reasoning on why it would be unproductive or a waste of energy to get upset about something. You must acknowledge something is a big deal, that you have every right to be upset, and then get upset about it.

This is the biggest misconception about the experience of emotions. You have to train yourself to feel them by exposing yourself over and over again to emotional situations. It's only once you learn how to deal with those emotional stimuli after forcing yourself to respond emotionally that you develop your emotional intelligence.

On point

And a starting point for doing this (it will take multiple tries, but the intention of this exercise is to focus what you are feeling and slowly describe what emotion it is, that's the first step):


If you have questions, feel free to ask.