What did he mean?

[intpz]

I've had a conversation with my godfather, and I've no idea what he meant...

I've missed the school enrollment, as there was a mistake with the date by the authorities in their site which was later corrected (but me being an INTP, I didn't check it again, as I don't think I should check the same thing 25 times just to be sure).

In any case, my godfather came in today, and we had a little conversation. During it, he's asked me when I woke up today, and then when I usually wake up - today I've told him that I woke up at 3pm (to avoid something else), and usually I wake up at 1pm I've told him, which is true, and I'm find with it - I enjoy waking up at that time.

After some of that conversation and the emotionless look on my face and my body language, he bursted and told me that I should change my thinking, as I'm 20 now, I should think differently. I should wake up early as my "biorhythms" won't restore otherwise. After I've explained to him that this was an honest mistake and I've read what was written by the officials, he didn't seem to believe me and simply said that I should think and act differently, that this matters and a bunch of other shit. In the end, since he didn't want me talking, he kept talking while I was talking and mentioned that I am indifferent/apathetic. Before going home just said to me more calmly, "think about what you've said here."

Oh, and I've told him that everyone is different and everyone reacts to various things (and learns) differently; after he's told me that "it's a miracle" that I've passed the exams by not going to school too often.



...so what the fuck did he mean? My current theory is that he just thinks that I was lying and that I think "childishly" in regards to what is important and what is not. I'm acting not "serious," as I don't wake up early and don't go to bed early. But can it be THAT simple and could he make THAT big deal out of... nothing only because he distrusts me? I kinda doubt my theory, and this is why this thread exists.

He clearly feels in charge, as a strong SJ type, which he seems to be...

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I think you carry great risk if you give him access to what would/should otherwise be private matters regarding how you operate. He's already shown concern for your sleep cycle and as illegitimate as those concerns may be, they could lead him to other "concerns" found in the DSM IV.

If I recall correctly, you allow him this access for monetary reasons. You should get him to agree to evaluate you by a different metric (e.g. "success"), which will likely mean you will need to show him you can succeed through your own means, possibly with a touch of dry pompousness if you succeed. You should also avoid using your type as justification.

 

[intpz]

Yea, I noticed all that... I don't tell him anything anyway, though mom does, as we share the room, unfortunately. So sleep cycle is one of the things she's complaining about.

In any case, I can't show any success due to the situation in this country. Nonetheless, everything Internet-related isn't a success, hard work is! According to him, anyway. And I mean beneficial hard work, the kind of work that is HARD and pays GOOD MONEY (in this country's standards of course)... To which the closest thing would be finishing school and getting a job with a fancier title than "cash machine operator..."

 

[Meer]

I should wake up early as my "biorhythms" won't restore otherwise.

This is bullshit. If you ever want to get your circadian rhythms into a more socially accepted phase, try melatonin. As for what he meant, he's probably just concerned in general, but doesn't really know what's going on or how to help, and he's trying to 'just do something'. Maybe.

 

[intpz]

The sleep-wakeup time can be reset in a about two days, then you don't feel tired during the time when you used to sleep anymore. For me at least...

He didn't seem too concerned, he seemed more like if he was losing the control of the situation. Up until now, he had a bit different idea of the school and all, I'd created a pretty good illusion that he's in charge for a while. I'd rate him as ISTJ or ISFJ, but since he voluntarily went to the army because he wanted discipline, and is bragging about it in every gathering, how good it was for him and how kids nowadays should do it, I'd say ISTJ,

I think he simply wants me to be more... Casual, is that the right word...

 

[TriflinThomas]

You have to teach him that he's not in control, not in some huge obvious way but in little everyday things. I had to do this with my mom who I suspect is an ISFJ.

 

[intpz]

Little things, if you mean conversations, been trying to do it with my wording and tone of voice. Doesn't seem to work too good.

As for my actions, I don't see him too often, so that's possible only in what was discussed before - job, studies, etc..

 

[PhoenixRising]

It seems to me he's taking on a fatherly role and trying to get you to "grow up right". It's apparent he doesn't understand you though. He's not INTP, and he's in his own bubble, at least for the most part on the topics which he discussed with you. Technically it doesn't matter when you sleep, as long as you're getting 8 hours. In society as it is, a school education is very important in order to become employed anywhere, so just make sure you're learning what you need to know. Besides that, no matter what anyone else says, always be yourself! There are enough people in the world pretending to be something they're not.

 

[intpz]

Fatherly role, which is a.k.a. controlling. Sometimes as controlling as not even showing the part about which his attempted fatherly role comes in...

I guess the question is answered - by the ending blurb he meant to touch me emotionally, so I would realize that I have to change to what he thinks is right (and I should think is right, because it's the absolute truth).

no matter what anyone else says, always be yourself!

That's what I always say. However, mostly the answers are that I'm crazy.

 

[Cognisant]

What are you doing, what do you want to do, how are you going to get there?

The sentiment is like watching someone drive a car without their hands on the wheel, as he sees it your hands aren't on the steering wheel so show him that they are, it doesn't matter where you're going, that's your choice to make, he just needs to know you're in control.

You are in control aren't you?

 

[intpz]

Actually it does, some people have trouble acknowledging others who have different goals than them. If say I'd become a freelancer and make $200k a year, he still wouldn't he okay with that. If I'd waste 4 years and become a programmer for a local firm for ~$10-15k a year, he would be happy with that.

And yes, I am. Unless, and this is what I've been afraid of since I was a kid due to my family members literally thinking that if I disagree with them I'm on a psychotic breakdown, or say if someone is getting drunk, or if taking up an unusual profession, or going out after dark (other people, not me), they think they are mentals... Not sure about my godfather though, but he should be about the same, except instead of mental - an idiot.

Oh, and I didn't mention what that is - that is a mental institution. As far, as I know, mental laws are very fluid, and you can't do anything. Can't even get a lawyer to dispute those claims...

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

If I'd waste 4 years and become a programmer for a local firm for ~$10-15k a year, he would be happy with that.

If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid- Einstein

Not sure about my godfather though, but he should be about the same, except instead of mental - an idiot.

Not all monkeys on a back are there because of the back's owner, but they need to be bucked off regardless. Otherwise you risk becoming a monkey yourself, climbing trees like a simian Sisyphus.

Oh, and I didn't mention what that is - that is a mental institution.

I'm not sure about laws outside the U.S., but strictly for what you mentioned, their attempt would fail here. You may want to consider beating them to the punch and getting an eval as a defense against being placed in one to begin with as well as after, if you are indeed placed. I'm speaking from experience and it's not that expensive, especially compared to one that takes place after being admitted. It's also noteworthy that if you sign in voluntarily (even if another party forces you into the car and drives you there), you can sign yourself out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo9riZYUpTw

 

[intpz]

If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid- Einstein

Well, an SJ is an SJ. Can't change that.

Not all monkeys on a back are there because of the back's owner, but they need to be bucked off regardless. Otherwise you risk becoming a monkey yourself, climbing trees like a simian Sisyphus.

Indeed. Unfortunately I cannot simply tell them that I don't need their constant bullshit about my life. They think that I cannot handle stuff by myself, I need to be controlled...

I'm not sure about laws outside the U.S., but strictly for what you mentioned, their attempt would fail here. You may want to consider beating them to the punch and getting an eval as a defense against being placed in one to begin with as well as after, if you are indeed placed. I'm speaking from experience and it's not that expensive, especially compared to one that takes place after being admitted. It's also noteworthy that if you sign in voluntarily (even if another party forces you into the car and drives you there), you can sign yourself out.

Yea, I know about the signing off part, but if they would decide to do it, they would do it behind my back. Most likely the guys in white would come and take me. Although, if psych evaluation would be available after you've been placed in the psych hold, some lying that I care about people and that I don't mind working in teams would make it alright, I presume. Seems like they would have to lie about that I'm a threat to their lives, otherwise I cannot be hospitalized without my consent.

 

[PhoenixRising]

I wouldn't worry too much about being diagnosed with insanity. My mother sent me to psychologists my entire childhood because she thought my INTP personality was a disorder. They all quickly found out that I was quite the amazing specimen psychologically, and that the problem was my mother's codependency, not any innate problem with my mind. There are some crappy shrinks out there, but if you ever did get admitted, the doctors there are specially trained to spot actual insanity. They would likely just send you home after evaluating you.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Well, an SJ is an SJ. Can't change that.

Indeed. Unfortunately I cannot simply tell them that I don't need their constant bullshit about my life. They think that I cannot handle stuff by myself, I need to be controlled...

You seem to be in a rut. IMHO the solutions are before you, but you aren't motivated enough to put them into action. I don't know you well enough to provide such motivation, but if I had to guess I would say that you have yet to define what's important to you. INTPs may be indifferent and quite flexible to many things, but they're also extremely inflexible when things important to them are violated.

Although your family is becoming impeditive, without defining how they're impeding what's important to you (possibly because you yourself aren't sure what's important), you will not be able to address the problem. You need to adequately assess your end goals, make sure you really truly want those end goals, and then determine exactly how and why your stepfather et al are a problem (which goes beyond simply what they are or are not doing, as well as type stereotypes). I've never encountered anyone who allowed problems to persist in getting in the way of their goal, and moreover I would expect you to realize most of the specifics regarding solutions as soon as you identify a goal you truly desire.

So far you appear to be a classic case of a venting rebel without a cause.

 

[intpz]

You seem to be in a rut. IMHO the solutions are before you, but you aren't motivated enough to put them into action. I don't know you well enough to provide such motivation, but if I had to guess I would say that you have yet to define what's important to you. INTPs may be indifferent and quite flexible to many things, but they're also extremely inflexible when things important to them are violated.

Although your family is becoming impeditive, without defining how they're impeding what's important to you (possibly because you yourself aren't sure what's important), you will not be able to address the problem. You need to adequately assess your end goals, make sure you really truly want those end goals, and then determine exactly how and why your stepfather et al are a problem (which goes beyond simply what they are or are not doing, as well as type stereotypes). I've never encountered anyone who allowed problems to persist in getting in the way of their goal, and moreover I would expect you to realize most of the specifics regarding solutions as soon as you identify a goal you truly desire.

So far you appear to be a classic case of a venting rebel without a cause.

I can think of many solutions, and I know my goals. However, they all come with a price and I'm not sure if the price is low enough to be paid at this moment.

Goal: living my own life without being told what my family members want from me, or telling me how I am living my life in a bad way, etc.. Not interfering with my life would be a better definition.

Solution to solve it instantly: I could insult him by being honest and telling him that I don't give a shit about his opinion, or that I don't want his opinion, etc.. Nicely or not, doesn't matter.

Consequences of the solution above: wouldn't get any money during my birthday and wouldn't have protection in case my mom wants to do something that I don't like to our flat. By protection I mean that she's scared of him and he is controlling guy who doesn't like change.

Solution to solve it in a year: I could work a horrible job for a year to sweeten the deal and then get into school and learn really hard while showing him my grades.

Solution for the other family members: get any job, don't go to school afterwards or both work and go to school. The best would be to get a job in construction, or some other hard physical kind of work, so it could be seen that I am working really hard, even though the payment may be $200 or $300 a month.

The ultimate solution which I'm seeking: find a way to make a living and move away.

Do you still think I'm a classic case of a venting rebel without a cause?

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Do you still think I'm a classic case of a venting rebel without a cause?

Yes.

I can think of many solutions, and I know my goals. <-- However, they all come with a price and I'm not sure if the price is low enough to be paid at this moment. Then your "goals" must not be important enough.


Goal: living my own life without being told what my family members want from me, or telling me how I am living my life in a bad way, etc..

^How?


Solution to solve it instantly: I could insult him by being honest and telling him that I don't give a shit about his opinion, or that I don't want his opinion, etc.. Nicely or not, doesn't matter.


True consequences of the solution above: No change. It doesn't address the original goal. Flipping your godfather the bird doesn't allow you to live your own life. It doesn't give you any power or authority (ascribed OR achieved) and only serves to anger your antagonists.

Consequences of the solution above: *wouldn't get any money during my birthday and wouldn't have protection in case *my mom wants to do something that I don't like to our flat. By protection I mean that she's scared of him and he is controlling guy who doesn't like change.

*It sounds like these are separate goals... Prove it. Again, the solution above (or below) doesn't address the problem.


Solution to solve it in a year: I could work a horrible job for a year to sweeten the deal to save up money for school(...?) and then get into school and learn really hard while showing him my grades.


Solution for the other family members: get any job, don't go to school afterwards or both work and go to school. <-- Are you saying you're not capable? If the answer is no, then you're not motivated enough, likely because you've yet to identify a worthy goal. The best would be to get a job in construction, or some other hard physical kind of work. <--Says who? (Yes, I know who, but do they matter here?) Just get one, period (it's an objective improvement on all accounts, even if it isn't the preferred choice of other parties). You could use a dose of utilitarian hedonism. Suffer now for the greater good, etc.


The ultimate solution which I'm seeking: find a way to make a living and move away.

Well, you'd better figure out some specifics and a worthwhile motive then, eh?

C'mon now, let's shoot down a clusterfuck of false dichotomies. What can you do that will simultaneously get your family off your back, give you more power in decision-making, put money in your pocket, build interpersonal skills, make momma proud, etc.?

Get a job and go to school.

You just need a reason to do it, which you don't have. Otherwise I'd have wrote "get a job and go to school for a career that's important to you" above instead.

Below, using my path as an example.

You don't need to have an immediate end goal in mind, just a direction you would enjoy moving in (the outdoors) and a realistic mid-level position that you would feel comfortable working for a while (zookeeper) that can be revised over time (game warden) depending on what you experience (awesome grades) and what you determine yourself to be capable of (research biologist), which can lead to additional revision (theoretical and applied ecology) and further action (Ph. D. and likely several post docs).

 

[intpz]

Then your "goals" must not be important enough.

The negativity outweighs the positivity - yes, we could say that they are not important enough then.

^How?

Described below.


Solution to solve it instantly: I could insult him by being honest and telling him that I don't give a shit about his opinion, or that I don't want his opinion, etc.. Nicely or not, doesn't matter.

True consequences of the solution above: No change. It doesn't address the original goal. Flipping your godfather the bird doesn't allow you to live your own life. It doesn't give you any power or authority (ascribed OR achieved) and only serves to anger your antagonists.

I believe that he would stop trying to get in, I did tell him a looong time ago about something, that it wasn't his business or something. He was mad for a few years and didn't talk to me for a year or two. By didn't talk I mean didn't come over to ask how's school, plans, or whatever. The other consequences are listed below.

Consequences of the solution above: *wouldn't get any money during my birthday and wouldn't have protection in case *my mom wants to do something that I don't like to our flat. By protection I mean that she's scared of him and he is controlling guy who doesn't like change.

*It sounds like these are separate goals... Prove it. Again, the solution above (or below) doesn't address the problem.

That is the solution to the goal, which comes with the cost of other advantages I get when NOT using this solution.

...prove it? What do you mean prove it? It's obvious, but if you need experiential proof, there goes: the time when I did tell him something I didn't get anything for my birthday. Wasn't even invited into his family members' birthdays or any other gatherings for a year or so.

It destroys the advantage marked in pink, unless you meant something else.

Solution to solve it in a year: I could work a horrible job for a year to sweeten the deal to save up money for school(...?) and then get into school and learn really hard while showing him my grades.

In a year means that I can't enroll until next year...

Why would I save it for school? I would get a paid scholarship. Besides, I would have to pay for my food, which means I couldn't save enough. But I have no reason to pay for it anyway, as my exam results are better than of most people who didn't leave this country.

Solution for the other family members: get any job, don't go to school afterwards or both work and go to school. <-- Are you saying you're not capable? If the answer is no, then you're not motivated enough, likely because you've yet to identify a worthy goal. The best would be to get a job in construction, or some other hard physical kind of work. <--Says who? (Yes, I know who, but do they matter here?) Just get one, period (it's an objective improvement on all accounts, even if it isn't the preferred choice of other parties). You could use a dose of utilitarian hedonism. Suffer now for the greater good, etc.

I am capable, however somehow I am not motivated to overwork an underpaid job with no perspectives and no experiential use.

Says the job listings - illegal construction work, legal storage room work (carry crates), cashier with one 15 minutes break, for 8 hours straight in a supermarket (there's always a line, whenever I visit them, for every cashier, therefore I count it as physical work, although it's more like a harder version of monkey-work...), and I actually think that's it. The rest require either experience or a college degree. Been trying to get a job for the past couple of months...

I could use it, but only if I could be sure that the "Greater good" would come FROM IT, and now I'm 99.9% certain that it wouldn't.

Well, you'd better figure out some specifics and a worthwhile motive then, eh?

...motive? My motive is to have a life that I enjoy. And specifics, I'm trying to do various stuff that I might partially enjoy, and the rest mostly relies on external factors, luck if you will.

C'mon now, let's shoot down a clusterfuck of false dichotomies. What can you do that will simultaneously get your family off your back, give you more power in decision-making, put money in your pocket, build interpersonal skills, make momma proud, etc.?

I've named the solutions that I thought of in regards to the possibilities available in my situation.

You just need a reason to do it, which you don't have.

I really don't understand how you can skip the goal (reason) I've mentioned. I rephrased it this time, to have a life that I enjoy.

Below, using my path as an example.

You don't need to have an immediate end goal in mind, just a direction you would enjoy moving in (the outdoors) and a realistic mid-level position that you would feel comfortable working for a while (zookeeper) that can be revised over time (game warden) depending on what you experience (awesome grades) and what you determine yourself to be capable of (research biologist), which can lead to additional revision (theoretical and applied ecology) and further action (Ph. D. and likely several post docs).

Currently I'm stuck at the second step of your plan - finding a realistic mid-level position that I would be okay with. A few months with refused job offers is kinda... compelling. If we had a zoo, I wouldn't mind working as a zookeeper. Would likely get a laptop too.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

The negativity outweighs the positivity - yes, we could say that they are not important enough then.


That is the solution to the goal, which comes with the cost of other advantages I get when NOT using this solution.

Re-read the whole response, slowly and carefully... I refuse to allow cognitive dissonance to manifest further.

I didn't get anything for my birthday.

So what? It's not as if you'd make more money from a job anyway, right?

In a year means that I can't enroll until next year...

Solutions to problems as complex as this don't arrive within a set timetable.

I would get a paid scholarship.

Prove it. (<-- Should be translated as "then shut up and get the damn scholarship" instead of giving you reason to further expand on your test scores and such)

I am capable, however somehow I am not motivated to overwork an underpaid job with no perspectives and no experiential use.

You act like no one's ever done it before, and your definition of "overwork" could use some work. You also have a narrow definition of experiential use.

cashier with one 15 minutes break, for 8 hours straight in a supermarket (there's always a line, whenever I visit them, for every cashier, therefore I count it as physical work, although it's more like a harder version of monkey-work...)

^Seriously?

I could use it, but only if I could be sure that the "Greater good" would come FROM IT, and now I'm 99.9% certain that it wouldn't.

Which yet again relates back to that whole "define a worthwhile goal" thing.

...motive? My motive is to have a life that I enjoy. And specifics, I'm trying to do various stuff that I might partially enjoy, and the rest mostly relies on external factors, luck if you will.

See yellow. You're also undervaluing the control you have or are capable of having over your own life.

I really don't understand how you can skip the goal (reason) I've mentioned. I rephrased it this time, to have a life that I enjoy.

Yellow.

Currently I'm stuck at the second step of your plan - finding a realistic mid-level position that I would be okay with. A few months with refused job offers is kinda... compelling. If we had a zoo, I wouldn't mind working as a zookeeper. It worked for me until I realized that the whole thing revolved more around entertainment than conservation, that I would essentially be shoveling shit all day, and that a college degree isn't even necessary for the job. Would likely get a laptop too.

The horse must drink of it's own free will.

 

[intpz]

So what? It's not as if you'd make more money from a job anyway, right?

...what does a job have to do with saying something that he didn't/won't like?

Solutions to problems as complex as this don't arrive within a set timetable.

So we can drop the fact that it is legally (and illegally?) impossible to enroll to school this year?

Prove it. (<-- Should be translated as "then shut up and get the damn scholarship" instead of giving you reason to further expand on your test scores and such)

I believe I've mentioned repeatedly that it is impossible to enroll this year, and yet you are telling me repeatedly to enroll.

I am capable, however somehow I am not motivated to overwork an underpaid job with no perspectives and no experiential use.

You act like no one's ever done it before, and your definition of "overwork" could use some work. You also have a narrow definition of experiential use.

People do a lot of things. A lot of people commit suicide. If you have the logic of "it's not like nobody's done it before," you might end up doing a lot of stupid shit (not specific about anything).

Overwork means "accept to work more than you have according to your contract or get the fuck out of your current job." That's the case in most places around here, even in governmental institutions. And yes, that is experience and observation, not assumption...

It might be narrow, I don't know, however here it goes: no experiential use means that you won't get any useful experience from what you do. For example - work as a cashier at a supermarket. Monkey work.

^Seriously?

Seriously about my categorization as physical work, or seriously about the situation? Both are serious. Try doing it, you'll see your hands in pain pretty damn quick.

Which yet again relates back to that whole "define a worthwhile goal" thing.

Okay, what about you define it for me? What's the worthwhile goal from being a supermarket clerk?

See yellow. You're also undervaluing the control you have or are capable of having over your own life.

I really don't see it that way. If you do see it that way, I would appreciate if you'd share your... insights?

Currently I'm stuck at the second step of your plan - finding a realistic mid-level position that I would be okay with. A few months with refused job offers is kinda... compelling. If we had a zoo, I wouldn't mind working as a zookeeper. It worked for me until I realized that the whole thing revolved more around entertainment than conservation, that I would essentially be shoveling shit all day, and that a college degree isn't even necessary for the job. Would likely get a laptop too.

Thought a zookeeper walks around at night so that nobody would try to break in or something like that, not shoveling shit. That's a horrible job if that's the case, and I take my statement back.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

...what does a job have to do with saying something that he didn't/won't like?

--> $

So we can drop the fact that it is legally (and illegally?) impossible to enroll to school this year?


I believe I've mentioned repeatedly that it is impossible to enroll this year, and yet you are telling me repeatedly to enroll.

I'm telling you to get a goal worthy of enrollment... and then enroll. Again, there is no time scale here.

You appear to have a lineup of red herring defenses starting with "It's not my fault because...". I might as well kick the first domino:

I've missed the school enrollment

Sharpen your debate skills, mang! I encourage you to!

People do a lot of things. A lot of people commit suicide. If you have the logic of "it's not like nobody's done it before," you might end up doing a lot of stupid shit (not specific about anything).

That typically only happens in your situation, when someone lacks a goal and either lacks the ability to connect the dots from A to B or lacks the ability to evaluate the efficacy of the steps between A and B.

Overwork means "accept to work more than you have according to your contract or get the fuck out of your current job." That's the case in most places around here, even in governmental institutions. And yes, that is experience and observation, not assumption... Because clearly you've held those jobs in tha past...?

By that definition all work in exchange for pay is overwork because an employer's profit is by definition unpaid-for labor. If work were fair no employers would make a profit.

It might be narrow, I don't know, however here it goes: no experiential use means that you won't get any useful experience from what you do. For example - work as a cashier at a supermarket. Monkey work.

^Seriously?

Seriously about my categorization as physical work, or seriously about the situation? Both are serious. Try doing it, you'll see your hands in pain pretty damn quick.

I did it for 4 years (while enrolled full time in college, walking 15 miles in 17 feet of snow on a dirt road that was uphill both ways...).

It's frighteningly easy and lets you detach from the rest of the world and think while your hands swing back and forth. It becomes all about speed very quickly, which is actually somewhat enjoyable. I also pushed shopping carts from the parking lot, unloaded trucks, stocked shelves, filled orders, caught shoplifters and various other forms of bitchwork.

Okay, what about you define it for me? I would but uh... I'm not you. You're no mechanical boy, are you?

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7WIt9A9gA

The thing is, you have to learn to pretend to be a mechanical boy. You can never win if you don't even play the game. What's the worthwhile goal from being a supermarket clerk?

Useful experience includes getting a line on your resume, socializing with fellow employees/team members, learning to mask your emotions toward genuine assholes (which is hella useful down the line, trust me), and learning the processes that make the store work. It's a system, just like (literally) everything else, and you'd be surprised how things operate behind the scenes. Once you know how the machine works, you'll probably take pleasure in your ability to manipulate it. If you're good you'll be able to gain the ability to change prices at will or put things on sale through the computer system (an actual gain of power... invite your friends).

I really don't see it that way. If you do see it that way, I would appreciate if you'd share your... insights?

Instead of taking action you're delaying the inevitable which will continue to result in detrimental consequences.

Thought a zookeeper walks around at night so that nobody would try to break in or something like that, not shoveling shit. That's a horrible job if that's the case, and I take my statement back.

On the other hand, how many people get to be one on one with big cats on a daily basis? (excluding cougar jokes).

For the most part I'm only being this stubborn because I've been there myself. As a matter of fact I filled out job applications for months, driving around on parental gas money and accidentally dropping the darned things in garbage cans along the way... Then the cash flow disappeared.

So uh... What do you want to be when you grow up? Is there any inkling of hope in that cold, steely heart of yours? (A go-go dancer, right?)

 

[intpz]

I'm telling you to get a goal worthy of enrollment... and then enroll. Again, there is no time scale here.

You appear to have a lineup of red herring defenses starting with "It's not my fault because...". I might as well kick the first domino:

Sharpen your debate skills, mang! I encourage you to!

I never denied that it's my fault that I didn't get into college this year, I missed it, it's my fault. I don't see where you saw that "not my fault" part here.

That typically only happens in your situation, when someone lacks a goal and either lacks the ability to connect the dots from A to B or lacks the ability to evaluate the efficacy of the steps between A and B.

Which pretty much make the analogy void.

Because clearly you've held those jobs in tha past...?

Do I have to have done something to know something? Obviously collecting facts through observation isn't enough for some reason... Oh well, thought it was enough.

By that definition all work in exchange for pay is overwork because an employer's profit is by definition unpaid-for labor. If work were fair no employers would make a profit.

Okay, here's my definition of fair work: you do what is in your contract and you don't spend 3 extra hours in the office, unless under special rewarding circumstances. That should clear up things.

^Seriously?

^Seriously? If you don't agree, at least give me a reason.

I did it for 4 years (while enrolled full time in college, walking 15 miles in 17 feet of snow on a dirt road that was uphill both ways...).

It's frighteningly easy and lets you detach from the rest of the world and think while your hands swing back and forth. It becomes all about speed very quickly, which is actually somewhat enjoyable. I also pushed shopping carts from the parking lot, unloaded trucks, stocked shelves, filled orders, caught shoplifters and various other forms of bitchwork.

Sounds like jail might be a good thing too - lots of time to think, sitting in your cell and all. Actually that was one of the rationales I've developed, but I quickly discarded it. That is too much time to think. I prefer doing something I enjoy AND think. Nonetheless, I don't know about where you've worked, around here cashiers have to smile and be nice to the customers, and by being nice I mean answer idiotic questions about the rip-off promotions and shit like that. That's not exactly thinking, and waiting in line, about 1 out of 2 or 3 customers do have these questions. If you don't do it, you get fired.

The thing is, you have to learn to pretend to be a mechanical boy. You can never win if you don't even play the game.

That is one of the things I've been talking about - pretentiousness. Pretentiousness can be useful if you do have something to look forward too anytime soon, but a cashier has no perspectives, meaning no advancement.

Useful experience includes getting a line on your resume, socializing with fellow employees/team members, learning to mask your emotions toward genuine assholes (which is hella useful down the line, trust me), and learning the processes that make the store work. It's a system, just like (literally) everything else, and you'd be surprised how things operate behind the scenes. Once you know how the machine works, you'll probably take pleasure in your ability to manipulate it. If you're good you'll be able to gain the ability to change prices at will or put things on sale through the computer system (an actual gain of power... invite your friends).

Getting a line in your resume is not useful experience, it is a useful THING. However, I don't think that a line saying that you was a clerk is useful when applying to something that requires work experience in IT section, therefore I see that line as pointless.

I also wouldn't socialize with the other employees, first of all - no time to do it, only after work, which is when I'd be heading home to spend some time alone and away from the place i hate. I'd have had enough socialization with various assholes throughout the day already...

As for masking emotions - I've learned that at home and enhanced it during the 12 years I've spend in school. I am pretty good at that, I've never shown an emotion when I didn't want to past 9th grade or so. And before that, never after... 2nd grade?

As for how the store works - first of all, I have zero interest in that, secondly, I believe I already know the big picture... Unless you meant the "inner intrigues," which is a thing I have even less interest in. And I doubt there are many in the... clerk circles.

The last part sounds rather pleasing, but only to some extend. First, I don't really see a good reason to manipulate the prices (by manipulating my bosses), it would be fun just for the sake of it for the first two or three times, that's it. Afterwards, it becomes repetitive, and since it doesn't give me any advantages, it's pointless too. Combine boring and pointless, and you get the ultimate "won't do" mix.

Instead of taking action you're delaying the inevitable which will continue to result in detrimental consequences.

Not necessarily. I still might get successful with something on the internet, and I might get lucky somewhere in the hundreds of job applications. As unlikely as it might be, it is possible. And that is a better alternative to hating most of your day and waiting for the same to happen, except being in a shittier mood.

For the most part I'm only being this stubborn because I've been there myself. As a matter of fact I filled out job applications for months, driving around on parental gas money and accidentally dropping the darned things in garbage cans along the way... Then the cash flow disappeared.

For what's it worth, I'm using the net and walking around, our family doesn't have a car.

I do appreciate you being stubborn here though, makes me think a bit deeper of the stuff we're talking about.

So uh... What do you want to be when you grow up? Is there any inkling of hope in that cold, steely heart of yours? (A go-go dancer, right?)

Nop, a gender operation and a lap dancer.

If being serious, the best outcome is having my own company related to game development. Although, I wouldn't mind a company related to technology or software instead of games, that sounds relatively good as well.

If being less ambitious, a manager's position, or analytical stuff in a firm that specializes in technology that I'm interested in would be not bad either.

As for the entry-level job, I'm looking anything tha's related to technology - server administration, computer maintenance... The latter would be the perfect hit.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I never denied that it's my fault that I didn't get into college this year, I missed it, it's my fault. I don't see where you saw that "not my fault" part here.​

You implied that it wasn't your fault because 1) they changed the date, and 2) you don't double check dates because you're an INTP. Don't make me quote you ​

Which pretty much make the analogy void.​

Then why did you make it? ​

Do I have to have done something to know something? Obviously collecting facts through observation isn't enough for some reason... Oh well, thought it was enough.​

The validity of collecting facts depends on one's perspective. Are you saying that the perspective of someone working a certain job is the same as that of someone who's never been in their position?​

Okay, here's my definition of fair work: you do what is in your contract and you don't spend 3 extra hours in the office. What if you enjoy what you do? What if you enjoy it so much that you actually stay overnight in your office 3 nights a week (especially if you have a mini-fridge, unlimited free coffee, free electricity and wifi, a pillow, and a public restroom all to yourself)?​

^Seriously? If you don't agree, at least give me a reason.​

The rest of my response was a reason. A whole bunch of em'.That is too much time to think.​

Bullshit. That just means you don't have something worthwhile to think about, which again harkens back to that "worthwhile cause" thing.​

I prefer doing something I enjoy AND think. Nonetheless, I don't know about where you've worked, around here cashiers have to smile and be nice to the customers​

You can fake it, especially if you're focused on getting them out of there (everyone likes a fast cashier), and especially if you perceive them to be non-threatening.​

and by being nice I mean answer idiotic questions about the rip-off promotions and shit like that.​

I had to know what was on sale in 3 different departments every week. Memorize and forget it. Plus because most employees (and managers) are idiots, sales have a definite predictable pattern to them, especially seasonal merchandise. Some things are actually literally always on sale.​

That's not exactly thinking (<-which is why it's so damn easy), and waiting in line, about 1 out of 2 or 3 customers do have these questions. The rate is a lot lower than that. Perspective. If you don't do it, you get fired. You were expecting a birthday cake?​

That is one of the things I've been talking about - pretentiousness. Pretentiousness can be useful if you do have something to look forward too anytime soon, but a cashier has no perspectives (<- You mean prospects), meaning no advancement.​

It's not pretentiousness, it's perspective. Being able to "pretend" shows that you have sufficient perspective, meaning you have some understanding of the role you're in as well as that of a specific individual. And a cashier absolutely has prospects, they're just not necessarily within the same company.​

Getting a line in your resume is not useful experience, it is a useful THING. However, I don't think that a line saying that you was a clerk is useful when applying to something that requires work experience in IT section, therefore I see that line as pointless.​

It's up to you to sell yourself and tailor the phrasing of your job duties and responsibilities so that they suit the job you're applying for. Debate and writing help this tremendously. At the very least it shows you're capable of the basics, i.e. showing up on time, submitting to a dress code, interacting with customers and fellow employees, etc.​

I also wouldn't socialize with the other employees (oh, but they'll socialize with you, and you won't be able to get around it), first of all - no time to do it, only after work (Bullshit. It happens all the time. Stocking shelves, meetings, breaks, lunch, when you use the business for legitimate reasons, e.g. shopping, etc), which is when I'd be heading home to spend some time alone and away from the place i hate. I'd have had enough socialization with various assholes throughout the day already... You'll get over it, and your fellow employees will probably help you through it. The first customer I checked out got pissed and smashed a watermelon in the middle of the checkout line. Shit happens.​

As for masking emotions - I've learned that at home and enhanced it during the 12 years I've spend in school. Whatever you think you've learned, it'll be put to the test and improved upon. You don't exactly deal with a wide range of customers at home and at school, and both of those places suspiciously lack phenomena such as Black Friday.​

As for how the store works - first of all, I have zero interest in that (but you'll learn about it anyway and apply it to other things), secondly, I believe I already know the big picture (<-LMFAO)...​

The last part sounds rather pleasing, but only to some extend. First, I don't really see a good reason to manipulate the prices (by manipulating my bosses), it would be fun just for the sake of it for the first two or three times, that's it. Afterwards, it becomes repetitive, and since it doesn't give me any advantages, it's pointless too. Combine boring and pointless, and you get the ultimate "won't do" mix.​

Once you're fully integrated into "the system", I'm willing to bet you'll have plenty of reasons for sabotage. Otherwise it's an extremely useful tool to shut up complainers and make your life easier, not to mention you can take advantage yourself in multitude ways. ​

Not necessarily. I still might get successful with something on the internet (If it's on the internet, it must be true! Just like those 3AM infomercials!), and I might get lucky somewhere in the hundreds of job applications. As unlikely as it might be, it is possible. And that is a better alternative to hating most of your day and waiting for the same to happen, except being in a shittier mood.​

Are you happy now? Would you prefer being in a shitty mood with money (a job) or without it (at home)?​

For what's it worth, I'm using the net and walking around, our family doesn't have a car. ​

You can apply to most retail chains online as well. And uh... bus... or bicycle.​

If being serious, the best outcome is having my own company related to game development. Although, I wouldn't mind a company related to technology or software instead of games, that sounds relatively good as well.​

If being less ambitious, a manager's position, or analytical stuff in a firm that specializes in technology that I'm interested in would be not bad either.​

As for the entry-level job, I'm looking anything tha's related to technology - server administration, computer maintenance... The latter would be the perfect hit.​

Given where you're applying, I can tell you immediately that you're competing with a lot of other applicants with more experience and training, and they probably have transportation as well. You should take any job, and then keep applying and trading up. Something is better than nothing. You'll also stand a better chance of getting a tech job ​

Game designer works. How about you start by learning some code. Actually, you might be interested in NetLogo (based on javascript), a modeling platform that can be used for everything from modeling complex dynamic systems to creating games. The graphics certainly aren't mindblowing, but it's the shit and it has applications for nearly every field of study, as evidenced by the suite of free example models in the model library. And then if you learn advanced statistical techniques (integrated multivariate/spatial stats) on top of that, by god you're unstoppable.​

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[intpz]

I never denied that it's my fault that I didn't get into college this year, I missed it, it's my fault. I don't see where you saw that "not my fault" part here.​

You implied that it wasn't your fault because 1) they changed the date, and 2) you don't double check dates because you're an INTP. Don't make me quote you ​

Oh, right. That might've implied it. I guess enrolling earlier would've made more sense though, unfortunately I didn't like the offered subjects and was looking for more info for too long. Forums can't help much, people seem to care about the "easy" and "hard" parts explicitly, while I'm interested about the "what in detail are you guys learning there?" part, which nobody could answer.

Then why did you make it? ​

Explained above.

​

The validity of collecting facts depends on one's perspective. Are you saying that the perspective of someone working a certain job is the same as that of someone who's never been in their position?
​

I'm saying it's about the same, except without the time loss and an extra line in your resume saying "fired for not being a pretentious smiling monkey to the customers."

What if you enjoy what you do? What if you enjoy it so much that you actually stay overnight in your office 3 nights a week (especially if you have a mini-fridge, unlimited free coffee, free electricity and wifi, a pillow, and a public restroom all to yourself)?​

I don't agree, because I would be working for free. I would much prefer go home and do something else, assuming I would have money, I could always find something I would enjoy equally.
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Bullshit. That just means you don't have something worthwhile to think about, which again harkens back to that "worthwhile cause" thing.​

No, it just means that I have a lot of time to think, and I think all the time about various things, even when I'm doing other things, especially on the days when my brain activity is high, then it's easy to do a few things simultaneously, which includes doing one thing requiring thinking and thinking about another one.
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You can fake it, especially if you're focused on getting them out of there (everyone likes a fast cashier), and especially if you perceive them to be non-threatening.​

Let them like it, I don't care what they like, I care what I like. That sounds egocentric, but my priority is to be happy, not do something that makes me unhappy. I indeed can fake it, but does that really make me feel any better, or in fact, it makes me feel worse?
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I had to know what was on sale in 3 different departments every week. Memorize and forget it. Plus because most employees (and managers) are idiots, sales have a definite predictable pattern to them, especially seasonal merchandise. Some things are actually literally always on sale.​

Yea, that's another thing, memorizing shit you aren't interested in at all... That's rather hard. However the pattern recognition can be fun for a couple days a year.

The rate is a lot lower than that. Perspective.

Well that's what I see when I'm at the store, and I've been going there a lot a couple years ago, help carry the bags. Nowadays I go significantly less, but I do go there, and that's what I see, unless my math skills suck or I have hearing problems that I'm not aware of.

You were expecting a birthday cake?​

I am reassuring that you have to do them.

You mean prospects​

I indeed meant prospects, made me laugh when I was reading it now.

It's not pretentiousness, it's perspective. Being able to "pretend" shows that you have sufficient perspective, meaning you have some understanding of the role you're in as well as that of a specific individual. And a cashier absolutely has prospects, they're just not necessarily within the same company.​

I can pretend, but I hate doing it. I used to pretend every day at school for example, and I hated it, but I was able to pass the classes of nasty teachers. And yet, it's one of the most disgusting things to me, I hate pretending.

To be honest, I can't think of anything where I could advance as a cashier. Nonetheless, I have zero interest in food industry, even if there was an advancement available that I'm not aware of.

It's up to you to sell yourself and tailor the phrasing of your job duties and responsibilities so that they suit the job you're applying for. Debate and writing help this tremendously. At the very least it shows you're capable of the basics, i.e. showing up on time, submitting to a dress code, interacting with customers and fellow employees, etc.​

I guess to get that impression you can lie instead, say that you've worked at your uncle's private store for a couple summers... Much easier, not time-consuming and prevents you from hating your life a lot while you're a cashier.

oh, but they'll socialize with you, and you won't be able to get around it

I will, I don't mind being a real asshole sometimes. That's experience, in case you'd say I'm just saying that.

Bullshit. It happens all the time. Stocking shelves, meetings, breaks, lunch, when you use the business for legitimate reasons, e.g. shopping, etc),

Cashiers don't have time to stock shelves, there are employees for that, they are walking around the store all day long to do it. There are no meetings. There is one short break to eat and smoke, no other breaks. Not sure what you mean by your latest example.

You'll get over it, and your fellow employees will probably help you through it. The first customer I checked out got pissed and smashed a watermelon in the middle of the checkout line. Shit happens.​

Did that came out of your paycheck?

Whatever you think you've learned, it'll be put to the test and improved upon. You don't exactly deal with a wide range of customers at home and at school, and both of those places suspiciously lack phenomena such as Black Friday.​

I do at school. I've been through 3 schools, as no school was able to offer more than 4 grades... There were new teachers, new students, and in fact - absolutely mixed classes after 9th grade. I had to mask emotions for new people a lot. I had to mask emotions during any events that I had to do to get a signature that says "social work," and in those events I've met a lot of real nasty, nagging individuals. Some of them were real angry, insulting and talked a lot. I was even in a center that is supposed to help the class to know each other better, be more emotional and shit like that, everyone loved it, I hated it. It was either that or no signature for social work, even though that doesn't even qualify as social work... In any case, I had to mask my emotions and/or act in various situations, with various people, and I've never failed to do it. I never burst, I never burped something, I never said something I didn't want to, I never used a tone that would reflect my emotions, I never gave anyone a certain look or body language expression, unless that was a part of what I was impersonating. I think I'm pretty good at hiding my emotions and acting while doing that.

but you'll learn about it anyway and apply it to other things

I'd prefer not to.

LMFAO

What I meant was that I could likely tell how the process of shit getting in the store and out the store gets there, by who and what's done to it on the way from general knowledge from various sources.
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Once you're fully integrated into "the system", I'm willing to bet you'll have plenty of reasons for sabotage. Otherwise it's an extremely useful tool to shut up complainers and make your life easier, not to mention you can take advantage yourself in multitude ways. ​

That's a good point. I guess this is something that could make it a bit more pleasing, but still, it isn't enough for me to handle half a day of hell.

Employees of a store get discounts regardless of the discounts for the customers, so that wouldn't matter to me. Unless you mean involving other people, but since I do not socialize at all at the moment, I can't say I know anyone, which also means that I don't have anyone in need of my... services. Nonetheless, the monetary reward wouldn't be significant enough for half a day of of pure painful hatred.

Are you happy now? Would you prefer being in a shitty mood with money (a job) or without it (at home)?​

I am not happy now, but I'm not very unhappy either. I play some games, write something, do a little coding, read a lot, watch some shows or movies, listen to non-mall music. If we'd rate happiness as +100% and unhappiness as -100%, I'd say I'm somewhere around -30% to -40% depending on the day and if I'm alone at home. If I worked as a cashier, it would go down to -60% to -70% depending on the day, which mostly depends on the amount of the most annoying customers.

You can apply to most retail chains online as well. And uh... bus... or bicycle.

Don't have a bicycle and I hate public transport. I haven't taken a bus in years. I prefer walking around over public transport. But mostly it's the net, so it's not a huge issue, I guess.



If being serious, the best outcome is having my own company related to game development. Although, I wouldn't mind a company related to technology or software instead of games, that sounds relatively good as well.

If being less ambitious, a manager's position, or analytical stuff in a firm that specializes in technology that I'm interested in would be not bad either.

As for the entry-level job, I'm looking anything tha's related to technology - server administration, computer maintenance... The latter would be the perfect hit.​

Given where you're applying, I can tell you immediately that you're competing with a lot of other applicants with more experience and training, and they probably have transportation as well. You should take any job, and then keep applying and trading up. Something is better than nothing. You'll also stand a better chance of getting a tech job ​

Well I don't really see about the better chance, except the possibility of uncle Joe, which I've commented on earlier. But yea, I'm neglecting any (random, not any) job because of what we're talking about here, basically because I would hate the time spend there.

And anyway, that's the point, and you can't have experience without knowing someone to get a job, or spending 3 years in college, until you hit the last .5 years and get an intern position. Which could be "overwork or you won't get my signature" kind of job, although I'm not sure about that, just saying what quite a few people have told me from around here. No concrete facts to back it up.

Ironically, at the workplace I used to hang out when I was younger, I remember knowing more shit than the IT guys there. Not about everything, but about quite a few things. A lot of what they've told me that I remember when I need to use that information nowadays and I check it out, seems to be bullshit as well. Not about things affected by time, improved technology, but general stuff, or about older Windows systems, etc..

Game designer works. How about you start by learning some code. Actually, you might be interested in NetLogo (based on javascript), a modeling platform that can be used for everything from modeling complex dynamic systems to creating games. The graphics certainly aren't mindblowing, but it's the shit and it has applications for nearly every field of study, as evidenced by the suite of free example models in the model library. And then if you learn advanced statistical techniques (integrated multivariate/spatial stats) on top of that, by god you're unstoppable.​

I know some C++, not much, but I am able to write simple programs, like calculators, or GUI stuff. Even games like Pong based on DirectX or a library like SDL, to name a more known one.

I am going to check out NetLogo when I'll get my main PC back on. This one is too slow for Java. Having some problems with the video card and motherboard at the moment, it's quite old, figuring out what exactly is wrong and how to fix it. Right now, I'm at my 12-year (I think) oldie.

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[Jennywocky]

I read the OP and the first few responses, and i wasn't sure why this is being overthought.

You're in a stage where he thinks you need to grow up and get your life in order and be an adult rather than a kid, and he seems to perceive you as not taking things seriously and slacking off. That's the core of it. He wants you to get your life organized, get an education/job, and fall into an adult schedule.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I read the OP and the first few responses, and i wasn't sure why this is being overthought.

You're in a stage where he thinks you need to grow up and get your life in order and be an adult rather than a kid, and he seems to perceive you as not taking things seriously and slacking off. That's the core of it. He wants you to get your life organized, get an education/job, and fall into an adult schedule.

Doesn't mean we can't break down some ego defense mechanisms in the meantime...

 

[intpz]

I read the OP and the first few responses, and i wasn't sure why this is being overthought.

You're in a stage where he thinks you need to grow up and get your life in order and be an adult rather than a kid, and he seems to perceive you as not taking things seriously and slacking off. That's the core of it. He wants you to get your life organized, get an education/job, and fall into an adult schedule.

Yea, too bad we've different definitions of being serious and growing up.

Doesn't mean we can't break down some ego defense mechanisms in the meantime...

Indeed.

 

[addictedartist]

He meant do what he did so you end up with a brilliantly twisted godchild like yourself. Or the opposite./

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

while I'm interested about the "what in detail are you guys learning there?" part, which nobody could answer.

Cut to the top and talk to the profs. If they don't respond to e-mail show up in person (<-they'll either love or hate it, which is all you need to know about whether or not you want to take their classes).

I'm saying it's about the same, except without the time loss (and monetary gain) and an extra line in your resume saying "fired for not being a pretentious smiling monkey to the customers."

Quite a wonderfully positive outlook indicates you've obviously never seen Planet of the Apes...

I don't agree, because I would be working for free. Is money the only benefit? If so, how do you know, having never experienced it? There's an empty box on the ground. 3 people each tell you it contains something different. How do you know what's in the box? If the contents of the box aren't important, how could you say so without knowing what's inside?​

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I would much prefer go home and do something else, assuming I would have money, I could always find something I would enjoy equally.​

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Which wouldn't happen if you'd discovered "it". I keep bringing this up, and albeit you may not discover "it" until you're taking classes, but for the record: if you don't find yourself at least periodically obsessed with an idea to the point you're staying up for days at a time giggling like a schoolgirl in the light of your own thoughts, there's a problem. Da Blob would refer to this as "flow" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) ), and oh what a raging torrent it is.
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Let them like it, I don't care what they like, I care what I like.​

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Trust me, all be happier if you make the douchebags disappear faster, yourself and the douchebags included.

Yea, that's another thing, memorizing shit you aren't interested in at all... That's rather hard. It's not difficult. You've likely been doing it in school for the past decade anyway. However the pattern recognition can be fun for a couple days a year.
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Nowadays I go significantly less, but I do go there, and that's what I see, unless my math skills suck or I have hearing problems that I'm not aware of.
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In that case, perhaps in my experience the questions were so easy to answer that I never noticed them to begin with...​

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I indeed meant prospects, made me laugh when I was reading it now.

You have no idea how strongly I've fought the urge to correct your grammar in some cases...

I can pretend, but I hate doing it. I used to pretend every day at school for example

Pretending in school has little benefit compared to a customer service job.

To be honest, I can't think of anything where I could advance as a cashier.

Advancement tends to come in the form of: doing bullshit job for $8 an hour --> another bullshit job for $9 an hour, not in the form of title. The path, although convoluted, does eventually lead to the payload..... if you ever decide what that payload is so you can move in that direction...

I guess to get that impression you can lie instead

Until you get caught in the lie when you clearly don't know what you're doing and/or clearly lack the skills supposedly gained.

I will, I don't mind being a real asshole sometimes. That's experience, in case you'd say I'm just saying that.

Again, it's a game. Having idiots on your side can be very beneficial (swapping shifts, scheduling days off, taking their hours to give yourself overtime, etc).

Cashiers don't have time to stock shelves Maybe you should stock shelves then

There are no meetings. There is one short break to eat and smoke, no other breaks. Not sure what you mean by your latest example.

Depending on where you work you could do all of the above and more. Break length and frequency depends on the number of hours you work. The standard is a 15 minute break every 4 hours, plus a half hour lunch at 6 hours, and a full hour at 8 hours. This is enforced (albeit poorly and haphazardly) by OSHA in the U.S. Frequency of interaction depends on the number of employees. Frequency of meetings depends on the institution. The megachain where I worked for 3 of those 4 years (kmart FTW!) held 2 daily meetings complete with coffee, donuts, and "cheers". If I survived THAT for 3 years, you can survive the local place.

Did that came out of your paycheck?

Nope. You'd be surprised what they throw out on a daily basis. It's also noteworthy that she was a former employee who was recently fired.

I do at school. I've been through 3 schools, as no school was able to offer more than 4 grades...

I was expelled from 2 different schools and was forced to graduate from a Catholic high school, meaning mandatory uniform dress code, daily morning prayer and monthly mass. Booyah.

Try checking out a gangster's... wife(?) after a drunk cuts in front of her and her crew in the front of a Black Friday line of 200+ people. "Get your ass to the back of the line or I'll slit your throat bitch!" (She really wanted the flatscreen TV on sale). Try checking out a shoplifter with blood dripping down his face from the pack of steak under his hat. Try not to laugh as you watch other shoplifters get tackled in the parking lot.

I'd prefer not to.

If you're unable to bridge gaps in logic by applying phenomena from external sources? For shame, son.

What I meant was that I could likely tell how the process of shit getting in the store and out the store gets there, by who and what's done to it on the way from general knowledge from various sources.

What does the typical grocery store pay per bottle of vanilla extract that retails for $7.99?

Spoiler

37 cents. Legit.

How do you imprint a credit card when it won't swipe?
How does the system keep track of ALL the merchandise in the entire store, how is more ordered, and how are prices determined?
What's the regional override code? (Allows you to change prices at stores in the mega-chain that you don't even work in)

Employees of a store get discounts regardless of the discounts for the customers, so that wouldn't matter to me.

Most employees get a 10% discount, while some people in the know effectively double their paychecks on a weekly basis. There's a difference, especially if you know the system enough to make it so that it appears some things were never even ordered to begin with. FYI, it's not something I've personally done, but I've seen it. Some retail mega-chains are bankrupt for a reason.

If we'd rate happiness as +100% and unhappiness as -100%, I'd say I'm somewhere around -30% to -40% depending on the day and if I'm alone at home. If I worked as a cashier, it would go down to -60% to -70% depending on the day​

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Have you ever hit 100% for more than a fleeting moment? See yellow. Also, newsflash: life sucks.

Don't have a bicycle and I hate public transport.

Craigslist/bolt cutters, and get over it. Or better yet, save up enough to buy a car/motorcycle...​

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I'm neglecting any (random, not any) job because of what we're talking about here, basically because I would hate the time spend there.

Again, something is better than nothing. To quote Jigsaw, "Make your choice".

And anyway, that's the point, and you can't have experience without knowing someone to get a job, or spending 3 years in college, until you hit the last .5 years and get an intern position. Which could be "overwork or you won't get my signature" kind of job, although I'm not sure about that, just saying what quite a few people have told me from around here. No concrete facts to back it up.

Then perhaps you should reconsider your position on getting a job, given that: I knew no one, I had more than an internship in my 2nd year throughout my 4th year (fully stipended independent research), and graduated without debt. This isn't merely to toot my own horn: you're shutting out possibilities based on the experiences of others. Perhaps you're merely equal to them. Shame.

And again with that overwork garbage. "It." Get some. What do you want to create with all this code? How cool will it be?

Having some problems with the video card and motherboard at the moment, it's quite old, figuring out what exactly is wrong and how to fix it. Right now, I'm at my 12-year (I think) oldie.

My last laptop caught on fire while I was writing a grant proposal. Fortunately I could afford to buy a new one.

Because I had a job. :smiley_emoticons_mr

I see the "it's useless" argument beginning to manifest. Fortunately that argument is absolutely true... until you need it.

I'm blue da ba dee da ba die.....

 

[intpz]

Cut to the top and talk to the profs. If they don't respond to e-mail show up in person (<-they'll either love or hate it, which is all you need to know about whether or not you want to take their classes).

Would be a useful activity during the school-year, in case I'd be studying next year.

and very small, underpaid monetary gain

Quite a wonderfully positive outlook indicates you've obviously never seen Planet of the Apes...

It wasn't bad at the time (seen it a long time ago, I should watch it again sometime). I enjoyed The Rise of The Planet of The Apes, the 2011 one. One of the best movies of 2011 in fact, considering that most of them are about parties, getting drunk and getting pussy...

I don't agree, because I would be working for free. Is money the only benefit? If so, how do you know, having never experienced it? There's an empty box on the ground. 3 people each tell you it contains something different. How do you know what's in the box? If the contents of the box aren't important, how could you say so without knowing what's inside?

That's a good example, however I think it's not applicable here. When doing my job, I'm looking for the benefits for me, which means that I am looking for something worthwhile in return. Since I do know that I can say no to things I want, I am confident that the money is the only factor in working overtime.

However there would be an exception if say I was working for an IT company, and my boss would promise me a prearranged raise after I finished this project IF I worked overtime on it. Then I would do it, but if he wouldn't give me a raise, I would never accept to do it again if he asked me to.

​

Which wouldn't happen if you'd discovered "it". I keep bringing this up, and albeit you may not discover "it" until you're taking classes, but for the record: if you don't find yourself at least periodically obsessed with an idea to the point you're staying up for days at a time giggling like a schoolgirl in the light of your own thoughts, there's a problem. Da Blob would refer to this as "flow" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) ), and oh what a raging torrent it is.
​

Oh yes, I do get those quite often, mostly I'm disrupted by the lack of money though, but some "its" go through. I remember working on some things for weeks 'till the midday.

In other words, if that'd be the case at my job, I could still go home and do something "it-ish" for myself. And if not, I am able to restrain myself rather good, so I wouldn't have a problem without going home a bit unhappy about it and diving into a nice and cozy video game until I go to bed, then waking up and happily showing up at work.

Never found anything like that, or even close to that related to school though, and I am certain that the same would go for college. I don't have the slightest desire to learn technology-related stuff in my language.

​

Trust me, all be happier if you make the douchebags disappear faster, yourself and the douchebags included.

Unfortunately other douchebags are looking for fewer people waiting. If I'll keep my quota to 2 guys, chances are another asshole will come happy because there's only 2 guys waiting.

It's not difficult. You've likely been doing it in school for the past decade anyway.

Not really. Mostly I would read my (or someone else's, since i didn't have them for some reason) notes a couple of times before the test for 10 or so minutes, then take the test and forget over 95% of what I've just read.

​

In that case, perhaps in my experience the questions were so easy to answer that I never noticed them to begin with...​

Different countries, different stores. Here's a fun fact: about 10 minutes down the road there's a store, it's not in the city center anything, but here's the good part: there's always a line of 8-10 people, constantly, ever since the store opens until it closes. It's a smaller supermarket store.

You have no idea how strongly I've fought the urge to correct your grammar in some cases...

Not surprised, I'm not a native speaker and I don't re-read what I just wrote.

Pretending in school has little benefit compared to a customer service job.

Which means it's even more important to pretend as a cashier.

Advancement tends to come in the form of: doing bullshit job for $8 an hour --> another bullshit job for $9 an hour, not in the form of title. The path, although convoluted, does eventually lead to the payload..... if you ever decide what that payload is so you can move in that direction...

The bullshit jobs have to be related to the sphere in which you want to work in the future though...

And $8 an hour? Damn, that'd be quite a cashier job! We get ...$1.25 to $1.5 an hour. I re-calculated that a couple of times, I thought it's $3-5 an hour. Damn.

Until you get caught in the lie when you clearly don't know what you're doing and/or clearly lack the skills supposedly gained.

What skills would I get working as a clerk at my uncle's IT store that I could use administering a server or *insert an IT job here*?

Again, it's a game. Having idiots on your side can be very beneficial (swapping shifts, scheduling days off, taking their hours to give yourself overtime, etc).

You work at the same time with the same people. The only time you can meet the ones who work the other shift is when you go home or arrive, not at lunch...

Maybe you should stock shelves then

Good joke.

Depending on where you work you could do all of the above and more. Break length and frequency depends on the number of hours you work. The standard is a 15 minute break every 4 hours, plus a half hour lunch at 6 hours, and a full hour at 8 hours. This is enforced (albeit poorly and haphazardly) by OSHA in the U.S. Frequency of interaction depends on the number of employees. Frequency of meetings depends on the institution. The megachain where I worked for 3 of those 4 years (kmart FTW!) held 2 daily meetings complete with coffee, donuts, and "cheers". If I survived THAT for 3 years, you can survive the local place.

We have only one half hour break here.

Nope. You'd be surprised what they throw out on a daily basis. It's also noteworthy that she was a former employee who was recently fired.

I really didn't think they throw out much... I don't know how it's in the US, but around here they put the old stuff in these baskets and stick a discount tag on them. People seem to like those A LOT. Usually they are within 2 or 3 days of expiration or some are already expired... Usually these baskets are empty (or close to that) by the end of the day.

I was expelled from 2 different schools and was forced to graduate from a Catholic high school, meaning mandatory uniform dress code, daily morning prayer and monthly mass. Booyah.

Wow, that's horrible. We only had to wear jackets and T-shirts, but I only wore the jacket. I found it useful, as I could put my school shit, like pens, in the inner pocket. My jacket weighted over a kilogram, maybe close to two. Once I was asked to lend it, I asked the guy if he's sure... He changed his mind after he almost dropped it when I handed it to him.

Try checking out a gangster's... wife(?) after a drunk cuts in front of her and her crew in the front of a Black Friday line of 200+ people. "Get your ass to the back of the line or I'll slit your throat bitch!" (She really wanted the flatscreen TV on sale). Try checking out a shoplifter with blood dripping down his face from the pack of steak under his hat. Try not to laugh as you watch other shoplifters get tackled in the parking lot.

Okay, that's quite funny. But if that's to question my emotional control, I am able to not move a muscle on my face when I see funnier shit. Or I think it was funnier, there was some guy shouting at someone I was with for not walking right... Or at school, a teacher with really funny attitude shouting at my classmate. Or at me.

But for comparison: most smaller supermarkets around here have bums hanging out and sitting on the spaces near the windows... They come in from time to time to buy some shit, after them, the store smells like piss and shit for at least half an hour. Some of them are real big talkers, if you don't talk to them, they can get quite violent. But usually they are just full of shit assholes angry at the society for not giving them free alcohol and cigarettes. Funny most of the time, you can hide your laughter in your smile, as you have to show them clearly that you're getting them...

What does the typical grocery store pay per bottle of vanilla extract that retails for $7.99?

Damn that's cheap. Had no idea about the prices...

How do you imprint a credit card when it won't swipe?
How does the system keep track of ALL the merchandise in the entire store, how is more ordered, and how are prices determined?
What's the regional override code? (Allows you to change prices at stores in the mega-chain that you don't even work in)

You put a bag on it and swipe it a couple of times. Otherwise, they tell you that your card cannot be read, happened to a friend of mine and mom, their cards were real wore out...

The checkout machines check the stuff that's going out the store, and the stuff that it is supposed to have is marked when it comes in.
Not sure about more, but I'd assume that it's ordered when a certain number of that merchandise is left, so the store would not likely be out of that merchandise.
Not sure about how the prices are determined, but I assume there's a percentage in relation to what the other stores have to offer, transport costs, etc..

Can't know that and would have no use for it. Nonetheless it's different for each store chain and country (region?).

Most employees get a 10% discount, while some people in the know effectively double their paychecks on a weekly basis. There's a difference, especially if you know the system enough to make it so that it appears some things were never even ordered to begin with. FYI, it's not something I've personally done, but I've seen it. Some retail mega-chains are bankrupt for a reason.

I think they get 15% around here.

That's possible, but I'd rather not to play those things nowadays. Too much stuff is logged, cameras, logs... Too much risk.

Have you ever hit 100% for more than a fleeting moment? See yellow. Also, newsflash: life sucks.

I'd say I've been on 40% to 60% for a couple days about a year ago.

Craigslist/bolt cutters, and get over it. Or better yet, save up enough to buy a car/motorcycle...​

Craigslist isn't available to my country.

Have you seen the recent gas costs? Almost $2 a liter. I'd prefer not to get anything that uses gas, at least until I'm out of this country in a workplace with a solid salary.

Again, something is better than nothing. To quote Jigsaw, "Make your choice".

Again, the negativity outweighs the positivity with the available choices.

Then perhaps you should reconsider your position on getting a job, given that: I knew no one, I had more than an internship in my 2nd year throughout my 4th year (fully stipended independent research), and graduated without debt. This isn't merely to toot my own horn: you're shutting out possibilities based on the experiences of others. Perhaps you're merely equal to them. Shame.

Sliding shit at a supermarket won't help you to get to know important people...

My last laptop caught on fire while I was writing a grant proposal. Fortunately I could afford to buy a new one.

Because I had a job. :smiley_emoticons_mr
That's just evil.

I see the "it's useless" argument beginning to manifest. Fortunately that argument is absolutely true... until you need it.

It's still true.

I'm blue da ba dee da ba die.....

Blue's more pleasant.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Unfortunately I no longer have time to respond in much detail. (I had one but the battery died and I'm not typing that monstrosity up again).

Suffice to say you know what you need to do but you're rationalizing

Spoiler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(making_excuses)

Eventually some external circumstance will force you out of it, whether it be family, money, etc.

I recommend you get any job ASAP and take a sociology class while in college (very different from your "social work" class in high school, I promise).

 

[intpz]

Eh. Too bad. That's why I don't like portable things.

We don't have social work class at school, we just have a certain amount of hours we have to do something for the school or the city, example would be cleaning the courtyard from snow, what we should be paid to do if they wanted us to do it...

As for taking it, are there any jobs for it? I've been looking at philosophy, couldn't find many jobs for it, and I'm not sure what fields sociology covers...