What constitutes manipulation?

[Chad]

Were do you draw the line between manipulation and help?

 

[QuickTwist]

heheh. first responce might as well be a cliché one.

Depends who you ask.

 

[TimeAsylums]

anything and everything
like taking candy from a baby

 

[Jennywocky]

As pool balls suffer diverted paths even by the slightest brushing of their exteriors, all contact manipulates the paths of the toucher and touchee. This is the nature of an interactive system.

But what diversions would be negatively decried as manipulation?

 

[Cherry Cola]

why do you think they are mutually exclusive? I don't and I have a trouble establishing a dichotomy with a linear continuum between the two in my head.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Manipulation is when you get people to do things without them realizing you're trying to get them to do it, and is generally selfish, whereas help is blunt and unselfish.

Interestingly, the two women who posted claim they see no difference between the two, or have a difficult time distinguishing at least.

Go sexism powers!

 

[Hawkeye]

The line is more of a fuzzy mess as perspective also plays a big role on whether it is a positive manipulation, or a negative one.

 

[Brontosaurie]

why do you think they are mutually exclusive? I don't and I have a trouble establishing a dichotomy with a linear continuum between the two in my head.

yeah but still we have to tell what distinguishes the phenomena. even if there's overlap and no specific cut-off point. otherwise they might as well be called the same thing.

frustratingly enough it appears to be a matter of intent. might be reducible to a utilitarian formula. i certainly hope so.

 

[Chad]

I think the term "Intent" is very powerful.

However, it is an almost completely impossible concept to identify with accuracy.

What looks like vicious manipulation could be done with good intentions.

I agree with your assessment though.

 

[Brontosaurie]

I think the term "Intent" is very powerful.

However, it is an almost completely impossible concept to identify with accuracy.

What looks like vicious manipulation could be done with good intentions.

yes. hence the frustration! one feels compelled to clarify something as fuzzy as intent.

 

[Jennywocky]

Manipulation is when you get people to do things without them realizing you're trying to get them to do it, and is generally selfish, whereas help is blunt and unselfish.

Interestingly, the two women who posted claim they see no difference between the two, or have a difficult time distinguishing at least.

Go sexism powers!

Maybe we're just asking leading questions rather than giving the answers.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Maybe we're just asking leading questions rather than giving the answers.

Maybe you're trying to manipulate me!

 

[TimeAsylums]

Maybe we're just asking leading questions rather than giving the answers.

sorry, I didn't realize this was the philosophy sub-forum...




lol

 

[Hawkeye]

As pool balls suffer diverted paths even by the slightest brushing of their exteriors, all contact manipulates the paths of the toucher and touchee. This is the nature of an interactive system.

But what diversions would be negatively decried as manipulation?

To answer that question you would need to expand the metaphor to include either a goal or purpose.

Once this has been established, manipulation in a negative sense could be anything that prevented it from achieving the goal (or purpose).

 

[GodOfOrder]

If one party gains in an interaction, it is exploitative. If each party in an interaction gains, it is beneficial.

In this case I would say the intent of the action, being either mutual gain or single party gain, would determine the difference between manipulation and help.

 

[QuickTwist]

Expounding on this idea, would it be considered manipulation if you are selling something for more then you got it for if the product is in the same or worse condition knowing that the buyer is ignorant of what it is worth or what you paid for it?

 

[QuickTwist]

Anyways who likes being manipulated weather for good intent or ill?

 

[redbaron]

I'm assuming you're talking about psychological manipulation, not literal manipulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation

There's several different viewpoints from varying psychologists of what constitutes manipulation, each with it's own subgroup of manipulative behaviours. All in all, there's roughly 20 or so 'specific' behaviours that are considered manipulative.

why do you think they are mutually exclusive? I don't and I have a trouble establishing a dichotomy with a linear continuum between the two in my head.

Notable: positive reinforcement (rewarding, help) is listed as manipulative, when offered for non-altruistic purposes. I.e: sacrifice something small now, to con someone into giving a larger gain later.

I'm just going to go with that.