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Understanding Abuse

Cognisant

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An abusive relationship necessarily involves some kind of dynamic that compels the victim of the abuse to try and endure the abuse they're receiving, otherwise they wouldn't put up with it and simply leave.

Thus the potential for abuse exists in any situation where one person is in some way reliant upon another, this reliance could be practical (a reliance on sustenance or shelter) or emotional, when you are in a romantic relationship with someone you are to some extent relying on them to support your emotional well being.

This is not to say all relationships are inherently abusive or that relationships are inherently a bad thing because the potential for abuse exists, merely that something that binds the abused to their abuser is a prerequisite for sustained abuse to occur, the same of the employee/employer relationship or the student/teacher relationship. By which I mean the way in which an employee relates to their employer or how a student relates to their teacher, not the romantic entanglement of a employee/employer or student/teacher, I don't use the word "relationship" to exclusive refer to romantic relationships.

My goal here is to define what an abusive relationship is and give some examples of how different kinds of abuse occur as a sort of knowledge based inoculation against such abuse, my theory is that it makes it much harder for that abuse to occur when everyone involved can readily recognize it as such, and much easier to call out when there's a clear definition of abuse to refer to. This will necessarily involve challenging some notions of what is considered acceptable or normal by society as some forms of abuse are so prevalent they have become culturally ingrained, and I challenge you to consider that just because that's the way things are, does not mean that's the way things should be.

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The most straightforward form of abuse is the use of physical harm, threatening physical harm and intimidation which is the implied threat of physical harm. These are used to terrorize the victim so that they live in fear of the abuser's wrath. This usually coincides with the abuser blaming their victim, gaslighting them into believing the abuse is their fault and a natural consequence of their own failings. Typically we associate this abuse with men abusing women and that's not without credence, men are typically more physical and thus more capable of performing this kind of abuse, however this is by no means an exclusively male phenomenon.

Because there's a culturally ingrained notion that it is women who are the victims of domestic violence society tends to turn a blind eye to women who are abusive. Just because these women typically aren't able to physically dominate their victim (though that does occur) doesn't mean they can't terrorize their victim. Due to society's preconceptions men are often reluctant to defend themselves and the mere threat of violence is sufficient if it's enough to achiever the abuser's goals.

With all forms of abuse the goal of the abuser is the same, to establish a power dynamic over their victim.

If I (as the abuser in this hypothetical scenario) can make you submit to my will then I have succeeded, this may be by violence, threats or intimidation, it could also be the threat of creating a scene in public, I could attack you in circumstance where if you defend yourself I can leverage that to gaslight others into thinking you're the one abusing me. Ideally I want to you to be so terrorized by me that I don't even have to abuse you, to have you submit to my will because you already know what will happen if you don't, to live in fear of my displeasure and proactively seek to appease me.

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Abuse can also take on subtler forms, a common form predominantly (but not exclusively) practiced by women is emotional blackmail whereby the abuser makes the victim feel responsible for the abusers own (often circumstantial) lack of emotional maturity. For example the abuser will throw a tantrum when they don't get their way or be hypersensitive to negative emotions, this is often chalked up to the inherent fallibility of womanhood in exactly the same way as toxic masculinity was dismissed as "boys will be boys". This is absolutely no excuse.

The utmost foundational aspect of emotional maturity is the ability to regulate and take responsibility for one's actions. If a woman makes a man angry, and consequently he hits her, it is absolutely not her fault, his actions may have been motivated by hers but they are still his actions. The degree of emotional gratification from performing the action does not change the fact that the person who performed the action chose to do so, to say otherwise is akin to excusing the actions of a rapist because the victim was dressed provocatively.

Adult women are not perpetual children, they are not incapable of containing emotional outbursts or acting with emotional maturity and this is clearly demonstrated by their ability to do in the workforce, hence what I said before about the lack of emotional maturity being circumstantial. This is not an inherent failing, it is a tactic in the abuser's toolbox.

Fortunately it's possible to test for an abusive personality, ask someone whether husband is justified in leaving his wife if she uses tantrums to get her way. It is really quite disheartening how many people (men and women alike) will jump to the hypothetical woman's defense on the presumption that it must somehow be the man's fault, as if solely by consequence of being a woman she cannot be expected to possess emotional maturity, so it must always be the man's fault.
 

Black Rose

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Childhood Trauma and the Brain | UK Trauma Council​

 

Black Rose

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How Relationships Reveal Our True Selves​

 

birdsnestfern

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I screen based on how much white shows above or below the eye. Violent people have imbalanced eyes.

1703952671147.jpeg


1703952775427.jpeg

Do not start relationships with people that have white above or below. Abusive/violent.

Also, facial muscles reveal a lot. Very thick brow / forehead muscles can mean someone who sits and plans violent things.
Look for a smooth non muscular forehead and no permanent frown lines.

Brow ridges = no.

1703953112821.jpeg


1703953254682.jpeg


1703953334947.jpeg

Mouth edges that turn down = no.
 

Black Rose

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In my dream, this girl told me that girls just want sex, not love.

I asked my trans roommate and they told me that is 75% of women.
 

birdsnestfern

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I think you have to ask people - how many times a week do you like it? Or, how long have you gone without it?
The simple presence of a male can turn on all those desires though, and so if someone expects you to regularly service them,
regardless of how you feel, thats not good. But you want to match up to someone with similar desires, so its one of the good things know ahead of time. Everyone is different.

And, no, its not really true of me anyway. Love is important, quality time is important, things like just spending the day together doing things, and feeling appreciated. That is what most women want before they will give I think. Back massages, etc.

Yes, some women and many men are scarey and violent. You have to figure that about half of the entire world is evil and screen people well. If early in the relationship they start to ask for a lot of favors, or are planning things to harm others, thats not good. Or, if someone talks badly about others, or doesn't treat everyone as an equal, thats not a good sign either.
 

Black Rose

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I scared this man once who was 15 years older than me. He was about to fight liz and stood up, I grabbed him by the shirt and pooled him back. My sister says he knows what happens to those kinds of men in the system, but we were cool afterward, somewhat. This happened in my back room with three couches in it. He likes to write wrap songs and has three daughters I babysat. Liz is kind of crazy though.

I do want a girlfriend but I am not sure what to do. I need a job but I still need to process my trauma. I will get better I just need time.
 

dr froyd

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women are inherently afraid of men - this is something that's slowly dawned on me over the years

but they also want to be dominated by men

these 2 things reveal how the female brain conceptualizes maleness, and its why women develop disdain and resentfulness towards men who dont dominate them - these men fail to live up to the female ideal of masculinity
 

Black Rose

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women are inherently afraid of men - this is something that's slowly dawned on me over the years

but they also want to be dominated by men

these 2 things reveal how the female brain conceptualizes maleness, and its why women develop disdain and resentfulness towards men who dont dominate them - these men fail to live up to the female ideal of masculinity

That reminds me of this:

Yachiru's Kenpachi - The Butterfly's Samurai​

 

Black Rose

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things reveal how the female brain conceptualizes maleness, and its why women develop disdain and resentfulness towards men who dont dominate them

I do not know yet why but women do have preferences for different kinds of men.

example: my sister hates Justine Beiber and likes men like Eminem. Some women love Justin. and I like his songs too.

JSsHcMh.png
 

Black Rose

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I almost have no idea why a woman would like Jim Carrey.

Those women in his movies are hot though.
 

birdsnestfern

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but they also want to be dominated by men

As a female, I may not be typical.

But its true that males might need to repetitively show interest and not be afraid of rejection, ie,
just be comfortable in your skin and warm and inviting. This starts to break down barriers over time.

A first kiss is usually done by the male.

After you get to know them, you can equally start things.

Its just that you don't want to throw yourself at someone if there is zero reciprocity (either sex).
Show interest in what she or he is doing for example.

Showing a little chivalry and interest and warmth is better than dominance or masculinity.

Oh, Jim Carrey isn't so bad, he is ENTJ. I tend to like the jolly kind Santa look though.
Music and romance in the mix makes a difference.
 

Black Rose

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It really depends with me.
Both looks and personality matter.
Blake for example is the kind of ISTP girl I like but not Scarlett Johansson.
I also like autistic INTP Girls but only if they look a certain way also (Miss Kobayashi).

iLoXu2o.jpg


MMD RWBY Blake (SENORITA)​

 

dr froyd

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but they also want to be dominated by men

As a female, I may not be typical.

But its true that males might need to repetitively show interest and not be afraid of rejection, ie,
just be comfortable in your skin and warm and inviting. This starts to break down barriers over time.

A first kiss is usually done by the male.

After you get to know them, you can equally start things.

Its just that you don't want to throw yourself at someone if there is zero reciprocity (either sex).
Show interest in what she or he is doing for example.

Showing a little chivalry and interest and warmth is better than dominance or masculinity.

Oh, Jim Carrey isn't so bad, he is ENTJ. I tend to like the jolly kind Santa look though.
Music and romance in the mix makes a difference.

this right here i think is great advice

i should clarify about dominance; chivalry and warmth, to me, are parts of it. But women want to be shown those things from a dominant man. We all know what happens if a man tries to be nice and caring to a girl while acting subordinately..
 

ZenRaiden

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i should clarify about dominance

acting subordinately
I don't know how to do either one instinctively, other then overtly.
I am by nature non dominant and non submissive.
I just like to do my own thing.
I feel like women often interpret my behavior as dominant, but honestly I am just feeling confident sometimes.
I also struggle reading the wolf pack hierarchy stuff.
So I often come off as challenging people and I often am not fearful of authority.
Not that I don't understand who is in charge, but I won't get it unless they explicitly say so.
Like in army who is the leader and dominant is obvious, but in civilian life its not like you can read it, other than body language.

When it comes to being nice and polite its just how I was raised, I would not call it chivalry, I think I would have to be very over the top, like put my coat into a mud puddle to show I am being chivalrous, because I normally do nice things. I just don't think of it as chivalry I just consider it being human.
 

Black Rose

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We all know what happens if a man tries to be nice and caring to a girl while acting subordinately..

Some women prefer dominance over men. But in a good way.

In sex you find that both can be equally as craving that kind of mode as the other gender.

Men think women can't be that way because they have never thought of them as stronger than they are emotionally. They only think of them as beta when in fact alpha has as much want for a sensitive man (not a weak man) as any other set of masculinity. That is to say, the woman cannot be too much of a dominant and the man cannot be too much of a submissive person but with the correct balance that can work.

Not like this:

5XV6zUT.jpg


More like this:

TLSy48X.jpg
 

birdsnestfern

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5XV6zUT.jpg

I've never laughed so much in my life, this was very funny.
I'm going to bed laughing, goodnight.
: )
 

EndogenousRebel

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Women are NOT uniquely in the position to infantilize themselves. The option is there for men as well.

I think that the biggest trouble is identifying and detecting abuse. Mostly because most relationships where there is transgression is political battle of tug of war. It's an issue when people don't take accountability and or when it's a persistent pattern of behavior.

Either party can easily rationalize an argument where they sound justified, and the never ending cascade of conflict they have had before is like a bank where they cash checks to justify themselves in the future.

Unless you observe people through days and weeks, you're not really going to get anywhere. If you have to do that to get to the bottom of what's wrong, then one or both of the parties are just immature or malcontents.

--

This cultural commentary about women getting away with emotional abuse I guess may be true. But remember that women are usually the victims of abuse in general. Statistically, the most dangerous person to a woman's safety is their partner, while for man, that's just not true.

Really, this emotional abuse comes from a culture that tells men to tolerate this nonsense, and promotes emotional retardation in men. Women simply have the edge in emotional intelligence, and as you wrote Cog, when there is a power imbalance, it usually gets exploited.
 

ZenRaiden

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If murdering children in Gaza is still controversial thing in todays society, how the hell are we surprised that we don't agree what abuse is.
Abuse is when someone is getting hurt.
It is very context based.
But in relationships anyone can get hurt objectively, not just by context.
The problem here is that todays society is primed to invalidate feelings of people and men especially.
Men invalidate their own emotions and invalidate other peoples emotions.
Men invalidate womens emotions.
We are conditioned this way.
Because in lot of situations emotions = being a snowfalke, being a cry baby, being weak, not being manly and other type of bollocks, or being manchild.

I think a lot of this stuff stems from mens insecurity of not being good enough, but also from the fact, society is not always accepting emotions.

I remember when watching Jordan Peterson having an interview and he started crying, the guy interviewing him got visibly uncomfortable with JP crying.
I find it massively telling when a guy cries and another man can't even watch him cry without being uncomfortable.
 

Black Rose

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I have to put my dog Becky up for adoption.

I cannot take care of her.

I hope she is okay because animal control took her away when she jumped the fence.

I feel really sad and I hope she is not dead.
 

birdsnestfern

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I think a lot of this stuff stems from mens insecurity of not being good enough, but also from the fact, society is not always accepting emotions
Yes. And I'm sorry that sensitive men endure that. But this makes sensitive guys even more awesome to other sensitives.
No, the nerdy non dominant ones are more awesome to some people.
 

birdsnestfern

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I have to put my dog Becky up for adoption.

I cannot take care of her.
Oh, no! This has to be the most awful loss. I'm very sorry AK. Very sad. I hope she is ok. The grief you feel after losing a pet is so strong. I'm very sorry.
 

Black Rose

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I have to put my dog Becky up for adoption.

I cannot take care of her.
Oh, no! This has to be the most awful loss. I'm very sorry AK. Very sad. I hope she is ok. The grief you feel after losing a pet is so strong. I'm very sorry.

They called me back and I will put her up for adoption.
 

ZenRaiden

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Yes. And I'm sorry that sensitive men endure that. But this makes sensitive guys even more awesome to other sensitives.
No, the nerdy non dominant ones are more awesome to some people.
Yes, but I think in many ways I don't fit the typical sensitive type of guy stereo type.
I am INTP, so chances are youll see me cry watching a sci fi movie.
 

birdsnestfern

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On now:
 

Cognisant

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@EndogenousRebel I want to give you a medal for being the only person to respond who is on topic and remotely sane.

Women are NOT uniquely in the position to infantilize themselves. The option is there for men as well.
Absolutely, I hate term "toxic masculinity" because it's not an aspect of masculinity or femininity, abusive behaviour is just that and I totally agree that any form of abusive behaviour can be performed by anyone. That being said there's generally more physical abuse from men due to sexual dimorphism and emotional abuse from women because society holds men to a different standard in that regard.

I think that the biggest trouble is identifying and detecting abuse. Mostly because most relationships where there is transgression is political battle of tug of war. It's an issue when people don't take accountability and or when it's a persistent pattern of behavior.

Either party can easily rationalize an argument where they sound justified, and the never ending cascade of conflict they have had before is like a bank where they cash checks to justify themselves in the future.

Unless you observe people through days and weeks, you're not really going to get anywhere. If you have to do that to get to the bottom of what's wrong, then one or both of the parties are just immature or malcontents.
It is often the case that both parties have terrible conflict management skills, indeed I'd even go so far as to say people in general lack emotional intelligence and have terrible conflict management skills.

That being said I define abuse as a pattern of behaviour intended to terrorize the victim into submission, simply doing something that upsets someone is not abuse.

This cultural commentary about women getting away with emotional abuse I guess may be true. But remember that women are usually the victims of abuse in general. Statistically, the most dangerous person to a woman's safety is their partner, while for man, that's just not true.
You're limiting the definition of abuse to physical abuse and I agree due to sexual dimorphism even if a woman is abusive and hits her partner she probably can't hit him hard enough to dominate and terrorize him. But I'd argue (from personal experience) that emotional abuse is FAR more common, I've been a victim of both kinds but I've only ever been beaten by one man.
 

Cognisant

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Really, this emotional abuse comes from a culture that tells men to tolerate this nonsense, and promotes emotional retardation in men. Women simply have the edge in emotional intelligence, and as you wrote Cog, when there is a power imbalance, it usually gets exploited.
And again it's men's fault, it's always men's fault, even when it's women using a power imbalance in society to abuse men it's actually men's fault for tolerating it.

Actually I agree it's men's fault, it's our fault for tolerating this attitude that women can never be at fault, that it must always be the man's fault because women cannot be expected to have the emotional maturity not to abuse us.
 

ZenRaiden

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And again it's men's fault, it's always men's fault, even when it's women using a power imbalance in society to abuse men it's actually men's fault for tolerating it.

Actually I agree it's men's fault, it's our fault for tolerating this attitude that women can never be at fault, that it must always be the man's fault because women cannot be expected to have the emotional maturity not to abuse us.
I remember watching a youtube video of interviewing a young man, somewhere in his 20s. He was homeless, because the women he was in relationship kicked him out, used him and got a new boyfriend.
Abuse is real, for men, and emotional abuse is real too.

I don't think its mens fault to be emotionally abused or manipulated by women, but I think when people say men have to be on guard here its just pragmatic advice.
I don't actually think we can be free from abuse as people, because relationships happen precisely because we let our guard down.
Its sad truth, many women know how to abuse men simply, because the moment we are around women we lose half our IQ, and critical thinking skills.
 

Black Rose

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the only person to respond who is on topic
And again it's men's fault, it's always men's fault, even when it's women using a power imbalance in society to abuse men it's actually men's fault for tolerating it.

Actually I agree it's men's fault, it's our fault for tolerating this attitude that women can never be at fault, that it must always be the man's fault because women cannot be expected to have the emotional maturity not to abuse us.

cog, I would never tolerate abuse of anyone from any gender abusing any other gender. abuse is abuse. who exactly is telling you that only men are at fault in these situations? because it is not true. we all have trauma and should not pass that on to others. Whether a man or woman they should not pressure others in a way that demeines them. You act like no women are emotionally mature and that they don't see exactly what you are seeing. Yes it is possible for a mature women to defend a man against abuse and say it is wrong to abuse them to other women. They will not tolerate it. The main problem is in getting people to become mature not that this issue is the fault of any one gender. Men being treated poorly like you were deserve to be heard and listened to and not bullied by anyone. When men have been treated poorly by women though they seem to get this picture of all women as abusive and that nothing is being done. Same for women. It is abused women who lash out at abused men and then the men lash out back and both see the opposite gender as the bad guy and that nothing is being done. They are talking past each other.

My mother was raped once and never told me about it. She does not hate men. but when us kids would fight she yelled at us and said to me you are exactly like your father (he was not the one who raped her). So it is a trauma-based passing down from generation to generation. My sister constantly seeks men who abuse her. My roommate had to beat some of them up it got so bad but she does not know better and I would not say it is because she just wants someone strong.

I have never had a girlfriend because I a afraid of abuse also. Because I am not a strong man who can tolerate brokenness in other people. And I cannot take care of them let alone myself. If I cannot take care of myself then I cannot take care of a child. That is why I put my dog up for adoption. I know that with time I may be able to. I am going to take free psychology courses at my university.

Just remember cog that you are worth something. Your parents were not capable of taking care of children properly. But we can make society better for children everywhere if we simply have compassion towards everyone. Women can be beautiful and men can be strong and this is good. Please remember that there are good women out there who are about people like you and what you've been through. They understand exactly what you mean by the fact that this cycle of abuse has been going on for a long time with both genders. We can stop it if we try really hard. Believe you can heal from your trauma.
 

EndogenousRebel

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That being said I define abuse as a pattern of behaviour intended to terrorize the victim into submission, simply doing something that upsets someone is not abuse.

Maslows hierarchy of needs probably is a good guide. If I make you insecure about receiving anything on there it's probably abuse.

Getting vanilla ice cream instead your favorite strawberry isnt abuse fuck off.

I would say anything where you have insight or complete disregard for your actions negative consequences of harm constitutes abuse.

Certain accidents where you couldn't have known the outcome would be harm might be exceptions.

Either way this is the reason that taking accountability and apologizing is so important.

I'd argue (from personal experience) that emotional abuse is FAR more common

Yeah, a conversation people aren't ready to have is how much physical abuse is in response to emotional abuse.

You may be right, but the consensus is that physical abuse is only justified in cases self defense. Emotional abuse isn't a prosecutable offense in most cases, unless it makes you lose money from it or something like that.

And again it's men's fault, it's always men's fault, even when it's women using a power imbalance in society to abuse men it's actually men's fault for tolerating it.

Actually I agree it's men's fault, it's our fault for tolerating this attitude that women can never be at fault, that it must always be the man's fault because women cannot be expected to have the emotional maturity not to abuse us.

It's easy to blame men even when you don't intend to. I was more trying to blame culture, but about 50% of culture is men so..

There was this one cringe meme I can't find but it was basically about how women can play RPG character builders with men, but if men try to define what they want from women it's sexism and misogyny.

Dont know how true that is, but yeah it seems like there's a lot of media about on how men should be but when it comes to women, amongst themselves it really just seems like a "live your best life at every opportunity" thing.

Is this mens fault? I don't know. I think men tend to see life as more of a game where you have to win or lose, and women are part of that game, so there's always a dependency there. It's the new year so I'm done writing rn
 

birdsnestfern

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Learn to send healing to people who are abusers and shield yourself from that. Picture them as healed, happy, healthy. Gold light, from crown, and flowing out thru your hands. Send healing light out to others. Move away from abuse.

Its someone who was likely abused themselves causing more pain for others and living in a stupor of half awake human who isn't awake yet to the consciousness of the world.

Its time to move on from that if you can. They were probably abused themselves and its a repeating pattern and to grow out of it, you must vow to stop the cause of the pain by removing yourself from that. and letting yourself be the last in line to experience it in your family. Its like you have to vow to end the pattern.

Whatever happened leading up to today is a your path, no matter how bad it was.
Accept whatever is completely. It doesn't matter what happened in the past, it only matters how you see that you are standing now between the past and the future. There is NO pain in the present.
Feel easy in your present mind and lead yourself forward in the direction you want to go.

To be overly concerned with abuse, doesn't change anything. It just keeps you mulling in that chaous. Let it go like yesterdays newspaper. Its an old story you don't need now. Write a new story.

Look at things and see if they are just old pictures or if they are what you want to create. All your focus s/b on what you want now. Good feelings and thoughts to replace the bad. Your mind can ONLY handle one thought at a time, so keep replacing with what you want to feel and think until you have a neuron path started in the direction you want.
 

ZenRaiden

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I have studied a little psychology and the irony is that relationship wounds get healed by relationships.
 

Black Rose

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with mama
I have studied a little psychology and the irony is that relationship wounds get healed by relationships.

I am an empath so I understand people on a deeper level than others can grasp.

"They" say I have autism but what I know is that it can be defined in many ways.

Being a male INFP I am made fun of a lot but I keep being as kind as I can be.

Basically, I have the maturity of a 12-year-old girl.

That is not to say I lack the ability to be aggressive.

I just know that deep down people can change.

Many times I have seen this happen and I do not regret helping the people I did.

A Jedi has to maintain balance with the force at all times.

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