Turns out I'm actually a feeler.

[Black Rose]

I'm so embarrassed

All this time I could have been saving princesses.

 

[Alice?]

How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[Black Rose]

How did you come to this conclusion?

From INTJf

Me:

I keep my complexities internalized. People to People interactions have been a difficulty for me in the past.

Someone:

IMHO:

You are too complex to be an ISFP. You're being too reflective about your emotional state. ISFPs are a combination of the intense exclusive love/emotion of the INFP with the easy-going, in the now nature of the ESFP.

Me:

Is reflection part of E and/or J?

Someone:

Self-reflection is a Feeling - Intuitive combination.

 

[Adymus]

That does not necessarily make you a Feeler, kitty.

We are all capable of both Feeling and thinking judgment. And we INTPs, I think I can speak for everyone when I say we are extremely self-reflective.

 

[Alice?]

I think I can speak for everyone when I say we are extremely self-reflective.

Indeed.

 

[Black Rose]

That does not necessarily make you a Feeler, kitty.

We are all capable of both Feeling and thinking judgment. And we INTPs, I think I can speak for everyone when I say we are extremely self-reflective.

Its good to get opinions, I like them. What would make someone a feeler.

Currently I think I'm an INFP by the profiles I have been reading.

 

[Adymus]

Its good to get opinions, I like them. What would make someone a feeler.

Currently I think I'm an INFP by the profiles I have been reading.

Yeah but INTJforum opinions are not mine, that makes them inferior by default.

You would be a feeler if you had a feeling function in your two your functions, meaning you gain energy and stimulation from said feeling function. Plus, if you were an INFP, that would make you an Fi dominant, so you should look into Fi.

Sometimes it is easier to figure out your dominant function based on what you are mainly suppressed by (your inferior function that is), so let's see if we can find out of it is Fe or Te.

Do you consider yourself most stressed by competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration your personal feelings? Or are you most de-energized by having to take into consideration the feelings of everyone else, being aware of cultural and interpersonal etiquette, and making connections with people (not necessarily people you care about.)

 

[Auburn]

Yeah but INTJforum opinions are not mine, that makes them inferior by default.

...

 

[Black Rose]

Do you consider yourself most stressed by competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration your personal feelings? Or are you most de-energized by having to take into consideration the feelings of everyone else, being aware of cultural and interpersonal etiquette, and making connections with people (not necessarily people you care about.)

I hate confrontations in person. Even online if I make a mistake I feel guilty because then I will be treated as if I intentionally wanted to offend people. So:

I consider myself most stressed by competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration my personal feelings.

 

[Black Rose]

I hate confrontations in person. Even online if I make a mistake I feel guilty because then I will be treated as if I intentionally wanted to offend people. So:

I consider myself most stressed by competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration my personal feelings.

Did I just contradict myself?

 

[Adymus]

Hmmm, perhaps you are.


I can't remember, but there was something you said awhile back that totally struck me as an INFP thing to say, and at the time I was like "Hmmm, I'll have to remember to investigate further."

Auburn: Oh come on, can't a guy parody himself once in a while?

 

[Adymus]

Did I just contradict myself?

Nah you're good.

 

[intuitivet]

Kitty: I think I might be too Ti and Fi seem to appear similar to people, I didn't even really get what Fi was! My friends say Fi eems to suit me better, but isn't my dominant function. Maybe it's there but not dominant? (ENFP has Ne then Fi)

 

[NeverAmI]

IMO, defining self-reflection as a feeling function is too generic.

Self-reflection is about understanding and mentally breaking down what makes you tick. If you do it on an emotional basis, judging how you feel about things and what those implications are, then it is feeling. If you break it down to understand it from an emotionally detached perspective, then I would think that would be more Ti. It also depends on what part of yourself you are reflecting about.


I do a TON of self reflecting and I think it is fairly safe to say I am not governed by Fi. I do have the emotional capacity of a 5 year old sometimes.

 

[GarmGarf]

Sometimes it is easier to figure out your dominant function based on what you are mainly suppressed by (your inferior function that is), so let's see if we can find out of it is Fe or Te.

Do you consider yourself most stressed by competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration your personal feelings? Or are you most de-energized by having to take into consideration the feelings of everyone else, being aware of cultural and interpersonal etiquette, and making connections with people (not necessarily people you care about.)

Interesting.


I believe somewhere, Adymus, you mentioned that the roles of the 4 functions an individual doesn't have (consciously, i.e: the "shadow functions") can be accomplished by use of combinations of the 4 conscious functions that individuals has.

Now, I'm not talking exactly about the compass/stimulus/worldview/dynamics roles (as then, no "substitution" of functions is required, and the individual could just use their appropriate conscious function to do the job), and more about the specific rolls the 8 functions have.

So, for example, as an INTP, if I ever needed to do deal with or enforce "competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration one's personal feelings", I would have to use what Te would have had to offer. I don't have Te, so I'd imagine I would have to use Ti (for analysing the impersonal logic) and Fe (for the dynamic role) as a "substitute", (I'm I correct? Would Ne and Si be in there somewhere?). I don't think this substitute would be as good as the Te of an equally (stereotypically) developed individual who has Te somewhere in their top 4, but the message you seem to be conveying in the post I quoted is that use of this INTP-Te substitution would not drain me as much as using Fe would. Is this because, since I don't have Te, I'm energetically-apathetic towards it, or is it because the use of Ti (in such a substitution) would dilute the energy cost which use of Fe alone would have had? The main flaw I can see in my reasoning above is that if this were all true, why would INTPs use Fe alone at all, as they would be better off using a Te substitution of Ti-Fe to do their dynamics work (or does this happen more often then I seem to realize)?


Anyways, here are some more straight-forward questions:

Who would consume more energy in dealing with or enforcing "competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration one's personal feelings" - an INTP or an INFP?

Who would be better (more efficient, etc) in dealing with or enforcing "competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration one's personal feelings" (if both were equally (stereotypically) developed) - an INTP or an INFP? (If the level of development does matter (i.e: if INTP wins if they are both super undeveloped, but INFP wins if they are both super developed), then which is better under which conditions?)


(Also, I know people can develop in different ways, so by "stereotypically" I'm talking about where the functions' development magnitude order mirrors the functions' energy efficiency hierarchy order.)

 

[intuitivet]

Oh, apparently Fi is to do with personal values and Ti is analysing...

 

[Adymus]

Garmgarf, great questions.

Regarding the first one: When having to substitute for Te, yes Si and Ne would come in too, especially Si (Or Ni if you are an INFJ or ISTP) so we can put our plans in time based and sequential structure, Ne pretty much comes in while tightening work flow up with Ti.
A Te user would be at an advantage, because that is it's natural way of approaching things, they naturally think with a logically structured work flow and time line. while we would have to go back and forth with functions, and probably have to do a lot of calibrating before we get something that works.
As for the second part of the question, as to Te-substitution is less draining than straight Fe. It technically is less draining actually, not because you are apathetic to Te (You are not really using Te anyway), but because while you do have to use directive functions like Si and Fe, you are using them on the terms of your Ti, and your Ti being allowed to calibrate you structure, which may not be as stressful as dealing with people in a purely social context, it could actually be stimulating... Depending on how interesting to you the task at hand is.
We have no choice but to use Fe at some points, it is how we articulate and we need to get our thoughts into the world some how. "Te-Substitution" cannot be applied to everything, especially dealing with people. On top of this, you are actually better off using Fe to articulate your ideas to a Te-user you are collaborating with, so they can design the plan, and then you use your Ti and Ne to calibrate their work when necessary.

Who would consume more energy in dealing with or enforcing "competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration one's personal feelings" - an INTP or an INFP?

Ti can naturally understand Te essentially they speak the same "language", it often actually finds it stimulating. an INFP on the other hand would have to modulate all the way down to their Te, which would be far more of a stressful core than what an INTP would have to do. The structured environment would still be a bit of a drain on the INTP, because Ti and Ne are naturally free from based, but we would still have a much easier time moving through it than an INFP would. The fact that an INFP actually has Te would not make it much easier on them.

Who would be better (more efficient, etc) in dealing with or enforcing "competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration one's personal feelings" (if both were equally (stereotypically) developed) - an INTP or an INFP? (If the level of development does matter (i.e: if INTP wins if they are both super undeveloped, but INFP wins if they are both super developed), then which is better under which conditions?)

In the long run, it would the INTP, for the same reasons above. Heck, maybe even in the short run, depending on how developed the two are. Whether you are developed or not, we are not really meant to have our inferior functions chronically tugged on, without getting anything back for our dominant function. An INFP could pull it off, but it would take a very large amount of stress from this environment, far more than any INTP would.

Now if you were to switch that environment to an Fe heavy one, the INFP would kick our asses.

 

[GarmGarf]

Thanks, this has brought a lot of clarity.

When I first heard of the MBTI, I possessed a very basic understanding of the 4 axes the MBTI tests look out for. That misguided understanding would have been able to answer these questions easily: "INTPs are thinkers, so of course they would be better at the described activities above".

Later on (after researching and understanding the theory behind the MBTI, e.g: the Jungian functions) I absorbed the material you taught about the roles (compass/stimulus/etc). This caused the conceptual connections I had between the introverted and extraverted counterparts of the same function (e.g: Ti and Te) to deteriorate; I started thinking more in roles (e.g: I associated Si and Ni together more than I would associate Ti and Te). Furthermore, the material you taught about the energy hierarchy made me think less about the function order differences of the types and more about the function presence differences (as the energy hierarchy did not inherently deal with the function development order).

However, I'm not saying that my understanding developed as straight-forward and as black-and-white as this (e.g: I came across material referring to use of the other functions to "unhealthily feed the dominate", and this among other things fluctuated my understanding) and there was indeed confusion. Luckily this thread gave me an opportunity to ask precise questions about it.

Seeing these two concepts you taught (as well as the "language" one (e.g: Te and Ti share the same language) which you mentioned before but I didn't quite absorb then) merge in the way you described above distinguishes the types to a balanced degree and pretty much clears up the picture for me, I believe. It makes sense, and funnily enough the conclusions made from this level of understanding match the same conclusions the misguided initial understanding would make (at least for these particular questions). It echoes the proverb:

"At first, I saw mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers. Then, I saw mountains were not mountains and rivers were not rivers. Finally, I see mountains again as mountains, and rivers again as rivers."

 

[Words]

Reflection is only connected to Xi functions. Both E and I have Xi but I has dom Xi, therefore, I will tend to be more reflective.

"If you're naturally socially clumsy, then you're inferior Fe. If you're naturally organizationally clumsy, then you're inferior Te." & "Dom Fi has better smile than Dom Ti"---->the main thing that convinces me of my own temperament.

..but I have Fi .

----
Social Situations(Dynamics):

Best to worst.

1. Dom Fe
2. Aux Fe
3. Tert Fe - Dom Fi - Aux Fi
4. Inf Fi
5. Tert Fi
6. Inf Fe

Xe as Dominant Function plays a role.

 

[echoplex]

hmmm, that INTJf discussion didn't seem to really go anywhere, and the statement at the end seems wrong. I can see how someone might say that INFPs are the ultimate self-reflecting type. I'd still disagree though, because INTPs would be just as self-reflecting, as would likely be other types as well.

Do you consider yourself most stressed by competitive environments, strict deadlines, and standard protocol that does not take into consideration your personal feelings? Or are you most de-energized by having to take into consideration the feelings of everyone else, being aware of cultural and interpersonal etiquette, and making connections with people (not necessarily people you care about.)

hmmm. I'd actually say that I'm probably more stressed by the Te stuff you listed than the Fe stuff. But see, I think these "tell me, which x do you y more?, etc." discussions rarely work, unless said person is very confident of how their mind works. But even then, using your question as an example, there are reasons other than energy drain why said situations would be stressful. That doesn't mean the theory is wrong, just that the questioning method is probably ineffective.

Social Situations(Dynamics):

Best to worst.

1. Dom Fe
2. Aux Fe
3. Tert Fe - Dom Fi - Aux Fi
4. Inf Fi
5. Tert Fi
6. Inf Fe

This may be true, but I don't know. I guess it depends on how you define 'best' and 'worst' but I'd say aux-Fe might actually be better to have in social situations. Think about it, an Fe-dom might actually scare others away with their perceived pushiness. I think Fe-aux, like with INFJs, makes it easier to make a plan of attack before jumping in. This makes manipulation easier too (not just the bad kind). This might actually make it more effective than the haphazard dom-Fe approach. I dunno.

 

[Words]

Aux Fe is more thought out than Dom Fe but Dom Fe has faster "friendliness" than Aux Fe.