Transcendental Meditition

[Ink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=V8TFcLgu5Ow&NR=1

Meditation is supposed to benefit INTPs greatly because we are usually so stuck inside our heads. I plan to learn TM when I can afford it, does anyone here practice it?

 

[snafupants]

Meditation definitely calms and balances me. Sex is also better after meditation. Music too. In fact, meditation resembles the effects of opiates in some ways. More of a somatic high.

 

[PhoenixRising]

I meditate, but only when I'm completely isolated from society. I have to clear my mind at least once in a while in order to be able to sort out my thoughts.

 

[Ink]

When you say you meditate, exactly how do you do it? There seems to be many different ways of going about it (TM seems to be the "best" way, according to the video I posted).

 

[PhoenixRising]

When you say you meditate, exactly how do you do it? There seems to be many different ways of going about it (TM seems to be the "best" way, according to the video I posted).

For me, meditation is going through the 10 levels of thought in my mind and silencing each level. I then experience the world without any preconception or thought and so am completely in the moment of "what is".

 

[ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε]

I do it every once in a while. Sometimes I relax so much it makes me feel like I'm walking on clouds or something. I've heard the best way to do it is just to sit down preferably somewhere quiet and stop thinking/imagining anything. Breathe deeply and just relax. Don't do any of that guided meditation bullshit.

To be honest TM is for suckers. Not only is it not as beneficial for you as regular meditation but it is also a waste of money.

This is something their website says:

"Unlike other techniques, TM involves no concentration, contemplation or control of your mind. This makes it easy to learn and enjoyable to practice."

Now that is some bullshit right there. Scam alert. You aren't going to get any permanent benefits from doing this, just a temporary feeling of relaxation that will pass in twenty minutes. You will eventually quit the program empty of money in pretty much the same situation as you started.

Also, be weary of anyone that says their techniques are "transcendental" because that is like the biggest give away that they are full of shit. They are just trying to appeal to all the new-agers that are into this stuff.

 

[Moocow]

TM is not the best way at all. Actually, it's founded on scams and misguidance, as Reminiscence has mentioned. Meditation requires work and you only get out of it what you are willing to put in.

I recommend Theravada. The two types of meditation are Vipassana, for insight, and Samatha, for concentration.

 

[Bhagavat]

What I do: 1-clear my mind of all thought 2-focus on my breathing until breathing becomes automatic, at which point I am only observing my body breath 3-watch the lights swirl around

 

[kamari rised]

binaural beats help fasten it. But yea it definatly gets you from out of your head and balances you out.

 

[Darby]

For me, meditation is going through the 10 levels of thought in my mind and silencing each level. I then experience the world without any preconception or thought and so am completely in the moment of "what is".

Can you go into exactly what these levels are, and how you're supposed to "turn them off"?

 

[Ink]

Those of you speaking negatively of TM, did you watch the vid I posted where they measured brainwaves and explained how TM differs from other meditation forms? It kind of makes sense that the "mantra", a specific pattern of sounds, could affect the brain positively. Also it's David Lynch talking!

 

[CLOfriendOSE]

I practice Kundalini Yoga, which is all about the meditation.

Yoga is to active the body and breath, allowing for a long meditation to be possible.

Usually the order is something like -

Mantra to focus and greet the Greater Knowledge (intuition, God, etc)
Poses to activate the root chakra and breath.
Kriya (set of poses) to focus on one facet of existence. Usually physically exhausting. Uses various types of breathing (long inhales, sharp exhales, breath of fire, shaped breath).
Meditation with pose and internal or external mantra.
Extended Shavasana (corpse pose), often with Gong.
Mantra for closing.

This has been the most effective method of clearing my mind. The practice carries over into real life as well. It's hard to explain, but with practice you can recall the energy/vibration of a pose/mantra whenever needed.

Through Kundalini, I have been able to take myself off of all the medications I had been on. I feel more energy, more empathy, and an overall more grounded approach towards how I interact with existence/consciousness.

 

[kamari rised]

I practice Kundalini Yoga, which is all about the meditation.

Yoga is to active the body and breath, allowing for a long meditation to be possible.

Usually the order is something like -

Mantra to focus and greet the Greater Knowledge (intuition, God, etc)
Poses to activate the root chakra and breath.
Kriya (set of poses) to focus on one facet of existence. Usually physically exhausting. Uses various types of breathing (long inhales, sharp exhales, breath of fire, shaped breath).
Meditation with pose and internal or external mantra.
Extended Shavasana (corpse pose), often with Gong.
Mantra for closing.

This has been the most effective method of clearing my mind. The practice carries over into real life as well. It's hard to explain, but with practice you can recall the energy/vibration of a pose/mantra whenever needed.

Through Kundalini, I have been able to take myself off of all the medications I had been on. I feel more energy, more empathy, and an overall more grounded approach towards how I interact with existence/consciousness.

What kind of energy? Can you enter flow in and out as you please?

 

[Cognisant]

Yeeeeah I call bullshit when people start talking about energies.

Maybe it's not "meditation" as such but through intense daydreaming (which is what I think meditation actually is) and self hypnosis techniques I can make myself feel better, sweep away the mental clutter and even alleviate pain to a degree.

 

[Moocow]

Maybe it's not "meditation" as such but through intense daydreaming (which is what I think meditation actually is)

Once again, that is simply incorrect.

 

[snafupants]

Yeeeeah I call bullshit when people start talking about energies.

Maybe it's not "meditation" as such but through intense daydreaming (which is what I think meditation actually is) and self hypnosis techniques I can make myself feel better, sweep away the mental clutter and even alleviate pain to a degree.

Anything can be deemed bullshit. That doesn't mean that the disparagement is justified. Since the scientific revolution, popular mechanistic paradigms have been upended or severely subverted every three generations, which doesn't inspire much confidence in the current reductionistic prism for viewing the world. Somehow this historical object lesson is missed by many modern scientists.

 

[CLOfriendOSE]

@Cognisant

So tensions and vibrations aren't energies now? That's news to me.

 

[Cognisant]

Sure they are, but can you explain to me how they relate to meditation?

@snafupants
Actually the scientific method itself is essentially: Your theories are all bullshit until proven otherwise and even then the relativity of proof means your theories are still possibly bullshit.

So I think in this case disparagement is quite justified.

@Moocow
Well then please enlighten me, what is meditation exactly, in plain English.

 

[snafupants]

Sure they are, but can you explain to me how they relate to meditation?

@snafupants
Actually the scientific method itself is essentially: Your theories are all bullshit until proven otherwise and even then the relativity of proof means your theories are still possibly bullshit.

So I think in this case disparagement is quite justified.

@Cognisant

@Moocow
Well then please enlighten me, what is meditation exactly, in plain English.

Possibly bullshit doesn't mean bullshit. Nice try. Does possibly bullshit open the door for possibly not bullshit? What are you saying exactly? Does quite justified mean relatively sure? Look at the post, though, and see that I never endorsed chakras or whatever. And clearly I'm a fellow apologist for the scientific revolution. Stop being an idiot. Yeah I should add that my beef with the scientific model is that scientific research is usually beholden to the scope and intelligence of the researchers, cultural funding (and perceived future private profit or public benefit), bias and packaged ideas, and the employed instruments. Since medicine and physics subvert themselves every half century I'm not inclined to rely upon the current paradigm, thanks for playing. I'm unclear on why you mentioned me but you might as well shut up now.

 

[Assorted Vibrations]

Hello all,

I actually registered with this site just so I could share my experience with meditation (plus I am an INTP, so this works out well). There are countless styles of meditation, but most follow some sort of tradition. Being a fan of the scientific method over religious doctrine myself, I was taken in by AYP, an open (and completely free) online forum created by an anonymous yogi and based in creating the most effective practice possible. It has been the most important discovery of my life. I wont describe the practice here, but rather here is a link to the site: http://www.aypsite.org/ If anyone takes up the practice for a month or more, I would appreciate it if you would post your experience back on this forum for others to see.

My experience after four years of practice (in short) has been to discover a self beyond thought, which feels more real than the thinking self, and is becoming increasingly ever present. I anticipate the ultimate fruition of this phenominon will be a state of a permanent abiding ego death (what they can nirvana in many traditions) in which the self beyond thought is the only self. Additionally, with the help of breathing practices (pranayama) I have changed the functioning of my nervous system so that in its resting state it exudes a minor ecstasy and sort of "upper" sense resembling caffeine (or something stronger). This seems to help along the more transformative development of an "awareness self", or "Witness" as it is called in AYP.

I would love to answer any questions that I may have not addressed in this brief description. I'm happy to be able to reach out to fellow INTP's, as well as anyone else who may read this.

 

[Duxwing]

Assorted Vibrations,

Easy, easy, take it easy. I've got an intuition that this AYP might be a bad idea. More specificially, I know that we INTP's live with our heads in the clouds, but you're getting rather high up there. Come down where the air is denser and take a breath; I think you're having a spiritual/religious experience.

In other words, get your P back on-line before the New Age grabs you by the core.

-Duxwing

 

[Architect]

I found meditation boring and ultimately useless. Unless it's a form of "music meditation", or something similar. By this I mean when you get into a meditative state by performing some action over and over again, such as running in a marathon or performing some long musical piece.

 

[Moocow]

@Moocow
Well then please enlighten me, what is meditation exactly, in plain English.

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=13310

I already explained it to you in this thread, but something makes me doubt that you care to think of it in a new light anyways.

Not trying to be too contrary but I completely disagree with Cognisant... it isn't day dreaming at all.
It's an exercise in control over your attention, with which you could daydream if you liked.

If you can discipline your attention, you can daydream, relax deeper than what comes naturally, introspect with better focus and persistence, sleep deeper, lucid dream, or just plain try to get shit done more efficiently and cut out useless habits. I use it as a starting point when I need to improve my health by improving my diet or exercise.
Or you can dig really deep for buried psychological pains in the Freudian sense..

To elaborate, varieties of meditation all rely on training your attention but may have other purposes that utilize that training, such as observation skills, insight into psychological cause and effect, coping with physical or mental pain, and noticing and changing inefficient / maladaptive behavior and thinking.

 

[Cognisant]

I already explained it to you in this thread, but something makes me doubt that you care to think of it in a new light anyways.

You're being pissy over semantics.
But tell you what, you're right, simply labelling it "daydreaming" is too restrictive & vague, I can see that and I know exactly what you mean by having an altered state of awareness:

You're taking the "think of nothing" thing far to literally, instead listen to the sounds around you, while doing that feel the surface of your skin, while doing that control your breathing (in through the nose, out through the mouth, getting slower and deeper at your own pace) this is approaching a meditative state.

Or has there been a complete failure of communication?

Look at the post, though, and see that I never endorsed chakras or whatever.

So why are you so defensive?
Calling me an idiot and telling me to shut up is hardly an appropriate reaction even if, hypothetically, you were endorsing "chakras or whatever" and I called it bullshit, because the onus is on you to prove it isn't bullshit, that would be the appropriate response and it would make a fool of me to boot, instead of throwing a tantrum like a child and making an idiot of yourself, hypothetically.

 

[snafupants]

You're being pissy over semantics.
But tell you what, you're right, simply labelling it "daydreaming" is too restrictive & vague, I can see that and I know exactly what you mean by having an altered state of awareness:

Or has there been a complete failure of communication?


So why are you so defensive?
Calling me an idiot and telling me to shut up is hardly an appropriate reaction even if, hypothetically, you were endorsing "chakras or whatever" and I called it bullshit, because the onus is on you to prove it isn't bullshit, that would be the appropriate response and it would make a fool of me to boot, instead of throwing a tantrum like a child and making an idiot of yourself, hypothetically.

@Cognisant

On which claim of mine exactly do I own this burden of proof?

You can "call bullshit" on anything but that doesn't mean that you're right. Perhaps someone called bullshit on a heliocentric solar system at one point. The naysayers were ultimately wrong.

This sounds more like a child's tantrum than anything that I said.

Actually the scientific method itself is essentially: Your theories are all bullshit until proven otherwise and even then the relativity of proof means your theories are still possibly bullshit.

Calm down. Wait, where did I positively endorse chakras?

I merely made the case that yesterday's "science" has historically been disproved many times; actually this is almost always proved to be so.

The empiricism of science stems from the empiricism of its biases, practitioners, instruments, and methodologies. Science would miss basically anything non-empirical due to its innate limitations and methods of inquiry.

Some people repudiate science as the all-mighty litmus test of the universe.

 

[Moocow]

You're being pissy over semantics.

rude..

But tell you what, you're right, simply labelling it "daydreaming" is too restrictive & vague, I can see that and I know exactly what you mean by having an altered state of awareness:

Or has there been a complete failure of communication?

Seems so. Apologies for missing that part, though I'm not sure how you went from that to calling it daydreaming. I'm used to "daydreaming" connoting a useless and whimsical drifting away into imagination and I think in this case semantics is important as even you would take some offense to someone else describing the effects in terms of "energies."

 

[Cognisant]

On which claim of mine exactly do I own this burden of proof?

You didn't, I was speaking hypothetically, I stated that twice so you wouldn't miss it.

 

[snafupants]

You didn't, I was speaking hypothetically, I stated that twice so you wouldn't miss it.

@Cognisant

Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute or would you like to argue semantics all day? This is a complete waste of time.

 

[Cognisant]

Well I dunno, you don't seem to know what "semantics" means

 

[snafupants]

Well I dunno, you don't seem to know what "semantics" means

@Cognisant

I can see the irony (pretty stupid) but what did posts eighteen, twenty three, twenty four, and twenty six concern? Maybe you should use your time more constructively than trolling like a little bitch.

Spoiler

This is my last post in this thread. I'm not going to carry this unnecessary derailment any further. Thanks for the insights Cog.

 

[Cognisant]

Well if you insist on being so uncivil I think trolling you, is justified.

I'm going to get banned again