'Training' the J axis?

[nexion]

I hate to have to admit it, but I do need more Jness. I would actually like to get the P and J about equalized (the flexibility of a P with the ability to get stuff done of a J, basically). Because let's face it, I probably procrastinate and do less things I say I'm going to do than most of this forum. So, any tips on increasing task-oriented skills and actually doing stuff?

 

[bloozie]

Get 'er done.

 

[nexion]

Get 'er done.

Thanks! That is the best advice I have ever received!

*please read in a sarcastic, but not snide, tone*

 

[bloozie]

Thanks! That is the best advice I have ever received!

*please read in a sarcastic, but not snide, tone*

That sidenote was unnecessary because I was expecting you to take it that way.
But that "Get 'er done" quip comes from a previous teacher of mine who changed my perspective to some degree... plus, I admire the guy.
Back to point, I think that finding someone in your life who has a 'J' function would help you out.
In what context do you want to get your 'J' function on? Everyday life or something specific?

 

[nexion]

That sidenote was unnecessary because I was expecting you to take it that way.
But that "Get 'er done" quip comes from a previous teacher of mine who changed my perspective to some degree... plus, I admire the guy.
Back to point, I think that finding someone in your life who has a 'J' function would help you out.
In what context do you want to get your 'J' function on? Everyday life or something specific?

Well, mostly... I want to get shit done. Haha. I always say I'm going to do stuff and then never do it, and I'm sick of it. So I suppose that would be closer to everyday life.

Added the sidenote just to make sure the statement couldn't be misinterpreted. After all, it is impossible to interpret tone through text.

 

[Ermine]

I definitely second the idea of finding a J role model who is willing to work with you. For me it's my mom. Not only is she a J, she's a Te dominant. So anything related to logistics I learned from her. She has trained me in getting things done. She has always hand high standards of execution, and I always tried my best to achieve that. For example, she would really come down on me if I ever didn't finish a homework assignment on time. She would always make sure I did my chores in a timely manner. She would help me put my goals in step by step formats. She definitely drove the point home that achieving goals is critical. Don't give up unless it's impossible.

Outside of my upbringing, it helps to write to do lists (not anything particularly methodical, just a list of things you want to do eventually so you know what your goals are. Then give all the big items subsections). It also really helps to have a regular sleep schedule, and always wake up and go to bed at a certain time. This sense of regularity is quite empowering, and makes it possible to do whatever you had in mind (given it's realistic).

 

[IndigoSensor]

My J is effing high as hell, it is too high really (on tests I'll score in the 90%). Outside of any test though, I still know it is very high by the way I think and do things. I need to learn to be better with my P side but it is extremely hard for me, because it means I need to go against my nature largely. As such, I understand why this would be hard for you.

What I would personally recommend doing, is forcing yourself to stick to plans and make solid decisions. Even if it makes you extremely unconfortable. Mind you this is just stereotypical examples of J traits, but it does indeed translate. Be thorough, exacting, rigid, planning, and don't just wing it.

 

[bloozie]

There you go! Ask IndigoSensor to be your 'J' function buddy!

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Join the military.

​

 

[mrpeters]

Been there, done that, didnt work.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Learn to act on your impulses. The longer you take time to think the more you will be inclined to just sick back and watch. Try to take the initiative in situations such as meeting new people and house maintenance. Be the first the say or do something without thinking about it so much.

It's hard, but there's nothing anyone else can do. You have to make the decision to be active. The only other way is dualization. This leads to a healthy balance of allowance and rejection or P/J. For INTPs our duals are ESFPs.

Functions are countered in duality as such:

Ti vs Se = Gets your head out of the clouds and down in the real world
Ne vs Fi = You wonder less about objective possibilities and more about what you want.
Si vs Te = You stop living in the past and begin to plan for the future
Fe vs Ni = Your tendency to be indifferent to emotions turns into saying the right word/doing the right thing so you don't hurt feelings.

I can personally attest to the effectiveness if need be.

 

[nexion]

Learn to act on your impulses. The longer you take time to think the more you will be inclined to just sick back and watch. Try to take the initiative in situations such as meeting new people and house maintenance. Be the first the say or do something without thinking about it so much.

It's hard, but there's nothing anyone else can do. You have to make the decision to be active. The only other way is dualization. This leads to a healthy balance of allowance and rejection or P/J. For INTPs our duals are ESFPs.

Functions are countered in duality as such:

Ti vs Se = Gets your head out of the clouds and down in the real world
Ne vs Fi = You wonder less about objective possibilities and more about what you want.
Si vs Te = You stop living in the past and begin to plan for the future
Fe vs Ni = Your tendency to be indifferent to emotions turns into saying the right word/doing the right thing so you don't hurt feelings.

I can personally attest to the effectiveness if need be.

Seriously? Damn, what I am getting myself into? None of this stuff sounds appealing in any way to me. Sorry. If that is what I have to do and develop, something so against my nature, just to get more motivated and efficient, then count me out entirely. I'd rather procrastinate all of my life.

I'm happy it worked for you, and happy you can attest to the effectiveness of it, but I can't do that. At least in terms of duality. No way. Your first paragraph... blegh. Being an INTP has such terrible drawbacks, but it's still the best thing I could ever be in my opinion. At the very least, I will actually try to start things whether than think about them forever and just grow tired of the idea. I think that is a place where going both J and P will be a very interesting combination... the plan-making and easiness to start something alongside the procrastination and spontaneity... I don't want to entirely redefine my entire personality, just stop procrastinating so much, and clean my room every once in a while... though, I think that cleaning and such could be attributed more to extroversion rather than introversion... urgh. I'm not going to like this... not that I didn't know I wouldn't... but still.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Join the Army. You'll definitely do things.

 

[nexion]

Join the Army. You'll definitely do things.

I actually was considering doing something of the sort... reserves, air force, something... though I would prefer not to get into direct combat with our "enemies."

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Seriously? Damn, what I am getting myself into? None of this stuff sounds appealing in any way to me. Sorry. If that is what I have to do and develop, something so against my nature, just to get more motivated and efficient, then count me out entirely. I'd rather procrastinate all of my life.

I'm happy it worked for you, and happy you can attest to the effectiveness of it, but I can't do that. At least in terms of duality. No way. Your first paragraph... blegh. Being an INTP has such terrible drawbacks, but it's still the best thing I could ever be in my opinion. At the very least, I will actually start things whether than think about them forever and just grow tired of the idea. I think that is a place where going both J and P will be a very interesting combination... the plan-making and easiness to start something alongside the procrastination and spontaneity... I don't to entirely redefine my entire personality, just stop procrastinating so much, and clean my room every once in a while... though, I think that cleaning and such could be attributed more to extroversion rather than introversion... urgh. I'm not going to like this... not that I didn't know I wouldn't... but still.

Dualization happens subconsciously and it's not permanent. It happens only when you are in a close relationship with someone and are in their presence. Like for example your ESFP partner will want to do spontaneous. You will scan the activity for any negatives, but will not get lost in analysis due to your willingness to be with your partner. If there are no extreme dangers then you'll happily go along.

The act on your impulses thing is a life time commitment though. Like you said it is against our nature and it drains our energy. So it should only be applied to important things in life, such as health and relationships.

 

[Yasmin]

Well, mostly... I want to get shit done. Haha. I always say I'm going to do stuff and then never do it, and I'm sick of it. So I suppose that would be closer to everyday life.

Have you ever considered that maybe the things you never did, were not done for a reason? Maybe your subconscious was telling you that this "stuff" was bullshit, didn't really need to be done in the first place.

If it's important, you'll probably do it. Jness doesn't just involve doing important things, it involves a lot of unimportant things. Why would you want to do more unimportant things?

I know it seems like J types do more stuff, but you should really examine the quality of that stuff. Half the things J types do are BS, and are effectively avoided by P types.

(Disclaimer: I'm over-simplifying the J-P dichotomy here, I apologize. Having a perceiving preference does not always lead to procrastination, preferring your judging process does not necessarily create people that do useless things. But for the sake of this argument, let's pretend MBTI is way less complicated than it is.)

 

[nexion]

It happens only when you are in a close relationship with someone and are in their presence.

That almost seals the chances of that never happening to me, then.

Have you ever considered that maybe the things you never did, were not done for a reason? Maybe your subconscious was telling you that this "stuff" was bullshit, didn't really need to be done in the first place.

If it's important, you'll probably do it. Jness doesn't just involve doing important things, it involves a lot of unimportant things. Why would you want to do more unimportant things?

I know it seems like J types do more stuff, but you should really examine the quality of that stuff. Half the things J types do are BS, and are effectively avoided by P types.

(Disclaimer: I'm over-simplifying the J-P dichotomy here, I apologize. Having a perceiving preference does not always lead to procrastination, preferring your judging process does not necessarily create people that do useless things. But for the sake of this argument, let's pretend MBTI is way less complicated than it is.)

(and way less inconclusive)

Anyway, I have to say, that I have never thought about it in this way, and it is a very valid point. I do not, however want to train my Jness to the point of doing useless shit, but only to the point of NOT procrastinating on stuff that NEEDS to be done. That is my problem. Yes, I do get the important stuff done, but usually on the last night before the deadline, and, if it's simply something that I deem important that has no deadline, it may never be done. I just want to get somewhere where I don't procrastinate on the stuff I need to get done. I fully intend to stop there.

 

[Trebuchet]

I decided a few years back to do one thing every day that I didn't want to do (but that needed doing eventually). It didn't have to be difficult or something I hated. It could be anything, from writing a thank you note to installing a shelf to making an appointment to replacing a filter to putting away a book I had finished. Some things took 5 seconds, while others took 5 hours. After a while, I had a large pile of things that were done, and was in the habit of getting one thing done per day. I also had a lot more experience estimating how long something would take, which made it easier to schedule things.

As for "to-do" lists, I suggest you try them, but they don't work for me at all. I'm not sure why, but they fail every time. For other people, they are life-changing.

And I agree with Yasmin. You'll get the important stuff done, and avoid unimportant things. The idea that J types get things done and P types don't isn't true. We P types get lots of things done.

 

[nexion]

I decided a few years back to do one thing every day that I didn't want to do (but that needed doing eventually). It didn't have to be difficult or something I hated. It could be anything, from writing a thank you note to installing a shelf to making an appointment to replacing a filter to putting away a book I had finished. Some things took 5 seconds, while others took 5 hours. After a while, I had a large pile of things that were done, and was in the habit of getting one thing done per day. I also had a lot more experience estimating how long something would take, which made it easier to schedule things.

As for "to-do" lists, I suggest you try them, but they don't work for me at all. I'm not sure why, but they fail every time. For other people, they are life-changing.

And I agree with Yasmin. You'll get the important stuff done, and avoid unimportant things. The idea that J types get things done and P types don't isn't true. We P types get lots of things done.

Yeah, I think you may be right about schedules and lists. I can do fine without them I think anyway. But that is a great suggestion you have there. Alright, I will try that.

 

[nexion]

Dualization happens subconsciously and it's not permanent. It happens only when you are in a close relationship with someone and are in their presence. Like for example your ESFP partner will want to do spontaneous. You will scan the activity for any negatives, but will not get lost in analysis due to your willingness to be with your partner. If there are no extreme dangers then you'll happily go along.

The act on your impulses thing is a life time commitment though. Like you said it is against our nature and it drains our energy. So it should only be applied to important things in life, such as health and relationships.

I would think that acting on impulses when dealing with the most important issues would be the time when it is least logical to do so.

 

[TheHmmmm]

You need more J-ness to the extent that you want to be more INTJ-like? Or do you just want to be more decisive/confident/outgoing? Because one requires function training and the other requires habit changing.

If you want to be more INTJ-like...I don't know how to help you. I have no idea how one would go about "working" their Ni muscles. If you prefer the latter, find someone who has confidence in you and hang out with them. If they express an overwhelming confidence in your ideas, you'll have a hard time telling yourself they're not good enough/worth it. Gaining this confidence in your thoughts and ideas will lead to decisiveness and maybe make you outgoing and stuff.

True story.

 

[nexion]

You need more J-ness to the extent that you want to be more INTJ-like? Or do you just want to be more decisive/confident/outgoing? Because one requires function training and the other requires habit changing.

If you want to be more INTJ-like...I don't know how to help you. I have no idea how one would go about "working" their Ni muscles. If you prefer the latter, find someone who has confidence in you and hang out with them. If they express an overwhelming confidence in your ideas, you'll have a hard time telling yourself they're not good enough/worth it. Gaining this confidence in your thoughts and ideas will lead to decisiveness and maybe make you outgoing and stuff.

True story.

I have read INTJ profiles and I would personally hate to be an INTJ. You had it right with the second. But, like stated earlier, I really only want to procrastinate less. Everything else about J, I generally dislike. I dislike making lists, dislike the rigid order, and outright despise the general inflexibility in many situations.

 

[Yasmin]

Anyway, I have to say, that I have never thought about it in this way, and it is a very valid point. I do not, however want to train my Jness to the point of doing useless shit, but only to the point of NOT procrastinating on stuff that NEEDS to be done. That is my problem. Yes, I do get the important stuff done, but usually on the last night before the deadline, and, if it's simply something that I deem important that has no deadline, it may never be done. I just want to get somewhere where I don't procrastinate on the stuff I need to get done. I fully intend to stop there.

Ah, but you're suggesting that procrastination is an inherently ineffective method of doing things, when it really isn't. It doesn't matter if you do something as soon as possible or at the last minute. In a few years, all that will matter is that you did it at all.

The only real problem that can be caused by procrastination is anxiety. But then again, that can occur even if you do get things done quickly.

 

[nexion]

Ah, but you're suggesting that procrastination is an inherently ineffective method of doing things, when it really isn't. It doesn't matter if you do something as soon as possible or at the last minute. In a few years, all that will matter is that you did it at all.

The only real problem that can be caused by procrastination is anxiety. But then again, that can occur even if you do get things done quickly.

Meh, is all I have to say to that. Meh.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I actually was considering doing something of the sort... reserves, air force, something... though I would prefer not to get into direct combat with our "enemies."

Then don't join. Direct or not, you'll get deployed and help the fight.

 

[Trebuchet]

I have read INTJ profiles and I would personally hate to be an INTJ. You had it right with the second. But, like stated earlier, I really only want to procrastinate less. Everything else about J, I generally dislike. I dislike making lists, dislike the rigid order, and outright despise the general inflexibility in many situations.

In defense of INTJs, I married one, and many of my friends and family are INTJ. I think they are wonderful. I love talking to them, and being around them. They absolutely do procrastinate as much as INTPs, or maybe even more, but they call it research. I don't think my husband gets things done any better than I do, but our styles are complementary so we each get different things done efficiently. It is true that INTJs can't seem to live without their lists. My husband can't figure out how I get through the day without them, while I can't figure out what they are supposed to accomplish.

Yes, INTJs can be rigid sometimes, but usually only when they are feeling uncertain, or threatened, or tired. Otherwise, they have so many contingency plans that whatever happens, they are ready to handle it.