Time/Theory

[dreamcore]

Hello,
For sometime I am devoloping theory of time. Since it's not scientific theory and more like thoughts of mine, I am putting this in Philosophy section.

I currenty had written ~ 6 pages, ~1.8K words document in my native language explainig my view on time and how time might be the most complex structure in cosmos. By Cosmos I mean not just our universe, but all the universes if it makes sense.

I try challange the idea of "linear time." By "linear time" I mean how most of the people are representing time as linear structure. Where you draw the horizontical line and in the middle of that line you draw smaller vertical line. Anything left from that direction is considered past and the right is the future with the middle being present.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Hey, I'd be interested to know more about this. I think about the non-linearity of time sometimes, and I believe that the timeline is going to be slightly out of sync for any 2 points in the universe. Insofar as it takes information a little bit of time to travel from one place to another place, the timelines will differ. I also think there is not a true past, and rather the past is a projection which can change, but as we change as it does we could never directly observe it but might be able to infer it from quantum effects.

 

[Turnevies]

Could be interesting.

As a matter of convenience, maybe better to link to a pdf-file than writing it all here.

 

[dreamcore]

I would do as soon as I translate it into english.
Alright, I began to translate my document to english.

 

[Ex-User (12972)]

Wonderful. I'd be interested in reading it myself.

 

[dreamcore]

Thanks, when I finish I would inform either here or in chat box.

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

I'd also be interested. I too have been thinking a lot recently about the "arrow of time" which many assumptions in physics are based on. I think this is incorrect as well as the idea that there is any real instant in time. The past and the future together form a continuous present...And the continuous present is the all we can experience...but there is no instantaneous present moment. Maybe some kind of topological structure could provide an analogy? A loop of some kind?

Anyway, I'd like to hear more.

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

Hey, I'd be interested to know more about this. I think about the non-linearity of time sometimes, and I believe that the timeline is going to be slightly out of sync for any 2 points in the universe. Insofar as it takes information a little bit of time to travel from one place to another place, the timelines will differ. I also think there is not a true past, and rather the past is a projection which can change, but as we change as it does we could never directly observe it but might be able to infer it from quantum effects.

I've thought about this before as well. If the present is continuous and the past is a projection of this continuum, we wouldn't know when the past has changed along with the continuous present.

 

[dreamcore]

Alright folks, I have just finished translating my theory to english. Sorry if there is many gramatical errors, even if I tried to make less of those. One of you suggested that I import pdf file. I decided that I would upload both pdf and doc files. Since both files are > 64kb.

https://ufile.io/c7d282
https://ufile.io/629b1

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

In my understanding, time doesn't just diverge in a few ways for each decision we make, but rather each point of the universe has a whole spectrum, as a wave, of all possible ways it could go. Infinite (or very many) variations exist at each point, and it is only through existing that we choose just one of these to make real, but really there is a whole time space that evolves.

Picture a single point, and a sphere starts to grow from this point for a split second, but then one point is chosen on the surface of the sphere, and from this point another sphere grows, so we get a random walk. But really, all points on the sphere were chosen in different variations of the universe, and from all points another sphere grows. It sounds like infinity to the power infinity by the time a single second passes, but really it could probably be represented as a space with a few dimensions.

Not sure if that quite makes sense to read, the visualisation is complex.


It probably occurs as a superposition of all points, so there's nothing to distinguish one electron from another in the sense that if two electrons are to move to the same point in space, the density there is simply the sum (perhaps non-linear) of the densities of the 2 electrons at that point, if that makes sense...

 

[dreamcore]

In my understanding, time doesn't just diverge in a few ways for each decision we make, but rather each point of the universe has a whole spectrum, as a wave, of all possible ways it could go. Infinite (or very many) variations exist at each point, and it is only through existing that we choose just one of these to make real, but really there is a whole time space that evolves.

Picture a single point, and a sphere starts to grow from this point for a split second, but then one point is chosen on the surface of the sphere, and from this point another sphere grows, so we get a random walk. But really, all points on the sphere were chosen in different variations of the universe, and from all points another sphere grows. It sounds like infinity to the power infinity by the time a single second passes, but really it could probably be represented as a space with a few dimensions.

Not sure if that quite makes sense to read, the visualisation is complex.


It probably occurs as a superposition of all points, so there's nothing to distinguish one electron from another in the sense that if two electrons are to move to the same point in space, the density there is simply the sum (perhaps non-linear) of the densities of the 2 electrons at that point, if that makes sense...

Don't know if you are talking about my theory, but with decision making is easier to understand. In fact, with this theory I suggest that we travel between timelines all the time, just the diffrence is to small to witness. I also used decision making in order to explain multiverse theory. In fact, I did not wanted to write about smallest changes in timelines.

 

[QuickTwist]

Tree joke:

If time changes speeds, does anyone notice?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Tree joke:

If time changes speeds, does anyone notice?

Artsu notices.

 

[Nymus Anon]

Tree joke:

If time changes speeds, does anyone notice?

Only if it changes differently for separate people and things.

 

[dreamcore]

Tree joke:

If time changes speeds, does anyone notice?

What we consider normal speed of time?
We sometimes experiance time flow in different speed. Sometimes it seems that 2 hours passed, when only 30 minutes passed.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Yeah, if we're assuming that it is our subjective experience of time only that changes, then we could compare to an external measure of time and notice that things are progressing differently to usual.

But I think what QT meant was that ALL of time just happens to change, say time decides to go twice as fast universally. This is like if all of the universe doubled in size including any formulas that need a relevant change as well. Since it applies universally, we could never notice.

This got me thinking about how it is we quantify our experiences. Sometimes we experience something as being very intense, sometimes things are more dull. However, it seems that there is a certain dimensionless quantity/quality of our experiences which must stay constant even if the passage of time or size of things were to change.

One way to think about this would involve light, and the way that light ties the quantity of space and time together by always having a fixed velocity. The other way to look at it is in terms of free will/decision making - that actually, what we truly experience is our decisions, and it matters none whether the universe were to shrink to the size of an atom or atoms expanded to the size of a universe - either way, we are making the same sorts of decisions on the same structured data.

Fascinating stuff!

 

[dreamcore]

Since, I am not good at physics, I don't want to go to deep into it. From wikipedia:

SI definition of second is "the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom".

Now about noticing change of speed. Now if we have +1 period more change is only 0.00015828545% this is very small change, I am not even sure scientists would even notice this amount of change. Now about doubling, I am sure everyone would notice. The question is how big change in time is.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Now about doubling, I am sure everyone would notice. The question is how big change in time is.

It would change universally though, i.e. apply to everything.

Think about the case of space: would anyone notice if the entire universe and everything in it doubled in size? There would be nothing to measure this change against, everything would just appear to be normal size.

So, the measure of time and space is relative; there is something about its structure that remains constant.

 

[dreamcore]

That is true perhaps. Now about universe doubling in size, the ones who are outside the universe would notice this. For example andromeda doubles in size, since we are in milky way galaxy, scients would definatly notice. Also there is data about those things. Now if milky way and everything within would double it's size, it would be possible to detect such a thing with data. Now what is interesting in this would the data itself change?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

That is true perhaps. Now about universe doubling in size, the ones who are outside the universe would notice this. For example andromeda doubles in size, since we are in milky way galaxy, scients would definatly notice. Also there is data about those things. Now if milky way and everything within would double it's size, it would be possible to detect such a thing with data. Now what is interesting in this would the data itself change?

No, no, EVERYTHING is doubling in size in this hypothetical example. Not just one galaxy, ALL of them.

The data itself would stay the same. If something was measured to be one meter before, it is still one meter, but now one meter is the size of two meters.

And in my example, any formulas like the strength of gravity are changed along with the size doubling, so everything appears to be just as it was before.

It's just a silly thought experiment, there's no debating this one. :P

I guess if there are universes outside of this one that influence this universe, then that would be detectable, but we'll assume that either there isn't, or they change as well.

Now, it's the same with time. If everything about time were to be rescaled, we would not notice, since time is a relative measurement.

And so that's what got me thinking about the nature of experience - there must be something absolute that we experience that is independent of the length of time and size of objects.

So we must be experiencing something about the nature of changes made to the structures we are embedded in.

It's like if we were in virtual reality, but the virtual reality program could be run in an instant, but to someone in the program, they experience a definite amount of time related to the changes that occur within the system.

The nature of what it is we truly experience, if it is not time and space, is the unknown with which I am interested right now.

(and now I'm wondering how the Tardus can be bigger on the inside...)

 

[dreamcore]

What causes that doubling? If the everything, including multiverse doubles in insant that should be a something that caused. About our experiances, they are limited. There are speculations that indeed we live in VR. Don't heard of tardus thing.

 

[sushi]

time is simply things moving away from past.

there must be a past point , and things moving forward.

the current time is the linear movement from past point to future point.

buit there are disputes.

 

[Invisible Gorilla]

Very interesting. It seems to me that our linear interpretation or "intuition" of time might stem back to our hunter gatherer origins. It could be that we implicitly assumed that time (like space) has a forward direction/ imagined position/ future, a backward/position we were at/ past and a middle/present. Thus, our linear interpretation of time could be an attempt to understand time, in spatial terms. Linear time gives the impression that time is like a road or lane where there's a behind (where you were), a middle (where you're at) and a forward (where you're going). Your idea (if my understanding is correct) that we actually cross different lanes or roads all the time sounds very refreshing. It adds a cross sectional dimension to time. I wonder how all these "roads" or timelines form though ?? Or what they might be made of ??

 

[onesteptwostep]

Obligatory "10 Dimensions" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg85IH3vghA

 

[dreamcore]

Thank you for you stating your thoughts about my theory.

 

[sushi]

one assumption is that the amount of days in the universe is fixed,. and we are forced to move towards the future

the other is that the amount of days in universe are infinite and eternal

my current idea is that new time is simutaneously created and destroyed in moments, when the universe run out of energy, the process of time is no longer created.

the paradox is does the present becomes past or does it become the future.
or is everything just now now now without no past or future. and past and future are illusions.

 

[sushi]

time increases
time decreases

time is continuous
time is discrete

time moves towards the future
time moves towards the past

there is no past or future, only present
there is past or future.

time has an end
time is eternal and has no end

so many things are unanswered