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Time focus of the perceiving processes

Architect

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I've puzzled about the time focus of some functions and haven't entirely figured it out, but Building Blocks of Personality Type has it spelled out (I'm considering getting this book, I've seen articles by one of the authors and he's quite good). They say ...

  • Se (present)
  • Si (Past)
  • Ne (Past and Future)
  • Ni (Future)

which jives with my experience. I've figured out Se/Si, but didn't consider the flip side of it other than intuition seems to be about the future. Ne being about the past and the future is certainly true for me, and Ni being about the future is true for the Ni users I know. Also this makes sense now that perceiving functions would have a time focus to them.

 

MellifluousSky

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I've puzzled about the time focus of some functions and haven't entirely figured it out, but Building Blocks of Personality Type has it spelled out (I'm considering getting this book, I've seen articles by one of the authors and he's quite good). They say ...

  • Se (present)
  • Si (Past)
  • Ne (Past and Future)
  • Ni (Future)

which jives with my experience. I've figured out Se/Si, but didn't consider the flip side of it other than intuition seems to be about the future. Ne being about the past and the future is certainly true for me, and Ni being about the future is true for the Ni users I know. Also this makes sense now that perceiving functions would have a time focus to them.

Wow...another juicy little morsel to stow away for later...I must confess a modicum of delirium which accompanies new information that pertains to an area of study.;)
 

crippli

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Se/Ne. There are two simple interpretations that I've come across regarding time. Either the present exist(past and future doesn't exist), or the present is composed by the past and the future(the present doesn't exist). Depending on the philosophy one decides to believe in, this will flip the Se/Ne regarding time focus.

I think I need a definition of time first, and after that on time focus. My initial hunch is that it is ambitious to attempt to connect something as complicated as time with something as simplistic as perceiving functions. I don't imply that a perceiving function is simplistic, only in relation to time.

I suppose if my view of time in the first paragraph have acceptable accuracy, then it should be okay to par the functions with a time focus.

But as it stands, present, past, future, doesn't really tell me much. It's not clear what is what. And what creates what.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Se: present > past, future?
Ne: present and future > past
Ni: past and future > present
Si: past > present, future?

I'm willing to elaborate if desired but I don't have an already structured idea, it's just based on my impression of the types.
 
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I've never seen Ne correlated with the past before. That completely defies my understanding of it. :confused:
 

Architect

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crippli I don't know what to make of your post, but I can give examples of this in use.

Ne
When constructing a theory I'll bring in ideas from world history to illustrate a path to the idea, which will play out in the future. For example we'll be discussing violence, and I'll immediately look at it as a continuum of events from the past extrapolated either linearly or exponentially (the two most common cases) to the future. A 100 years is usually good enough. For example, world violence was higher in 1900 than it is today, and therefore will be even less so in another 100 years. You might ascribe this to Si, but Si is more focused on the personal past, being an introverted/introspective function, which holds true for the ISFJ/ISTJ's and myself as a Si tertiary.

nearfantastica I think the key is that Ne is the only truly global function when it comes to ideas and example. Everything is fodder for its mill - the past, the future, and I'd say to a lesser degree probably the present. It sees things as a continuum and is the only truly global - no galactic, perspective. That's how I use it at least, I mentally take a step back, sometimes imagining myself above the earth, where I have a slider that can scroll history backward and forward. From this perspective the present is just a small piece of the more interesting whole, which is why Ne doesn't care as much about it.

Ni
INFJ's are the Cassandra's of society. My INFJ continually sees trends long before the collective sees them. She's always looking to the future, but doesn't use the past to extrapolate to the future as I do. She tends to look to the present (Se inferior) and the potential negative future consequences of it (Ni). I don't know if INFJ's generally have a fatalistic streak, but it seems not unlikely.

INTJ's seem to use this more as a system building goal with their Te. They commonly see things in the present (Se inferior again) that are flawed (such as diet with Joel Fuhrman/INTJ or housekeeping with Bea Johnson/INTJ) and then go on to create a system for the rest of us to follow.

Si
ISFJ Si dominants are the masters of their personal rituals. Whatever environment they grew up in they will continue, to amazing degrees. My ISFJ sister-in-law has every major physical item from her childhood, including her bed which her children are using. We have a lot of her parents furniture, because she doesn't have a place for it and can't get rid of it (fine by me, these are great antiques and I wish I had more). She bemoans that the rest of us don't drink at holidays, as that's what she grew up on, but every holiday is a re-enactment of the exact rituals they engaged in otherwise.

ISTJ's on the other hand are also Si users, and I work with many of them, but they take a more impersonal factual approach. They are a treasury of details about their chosen interest. One was into airplanes and knew everything about them. Another is into computers (professionally, oddly he doesn't do much with them at home) but is a storehouse of details. Ask him anything about Windows programming and he has an answer ferreted away. Again the focus on details in a personal way.

In me Si manifests more as a storehouse of my personal journey, and also details on things I've done or experienced. For example, movies. I can recall details, including playing out many scenes from having watched a movie once. Others have commented on how much Si I use on these boards relaying my experiences (including in this post!). It's a storehouse of data to feed the Ti-Ne engine, but I have little regards for past precedent as Si dominants do.

Se
Well this goes without saying, Se dominants are focused on taking in the present moment. Too obvious and too many examples to bother elaborating on.
 

Cherry Cola

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This is total bullshit lol. You just dont understand Ni and all your substantial arguments refer to one case. Ni builds from knowledge of the past just like Ne. I suspect Bronto agrees with me on this too. I also think this is a pretty silly claim and obvious attempt to glorify Ne, the burden of proof is on you for such a random claim.

When your Wife appeared on the forum she recommended other INFJs to read books to gain experiences and to feed Se that way as well. That if anything is one way of gaining experience of the past. It's not unimportant to Ni users. In fact Ni users tend to study more philosophy and anthropology than Ne users as far as I've experienced, that does make them more familiar with how the human mind thinks and experiences, what its logical biases are how emotions function, all from a single to a group perspective etc, but NP's can also do this it just seems rarer for them. I think your just considering the respective strength for NP's which can likewise be achieved in NJ's. Of course one is naturally greater at each but both can employ the kind of thinking you describe involving Ne and that which I described with Ni. There are more perspectives than the ones mention that you fail to credit.
 

Architect

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This is total bullshit lol. You just dont understand Ni and all your substantial arguments refer to one case. Ni builds from knowledge of the past just like Ne.

Give examples and continue the discussion or just fuck off Cherry. You're right, I don't really understand Ni and don't have qualms about that. It's the most difficult function to understand. However in my (limited) experience Ni isn't about the past, and have corroboration with MBTI professionals on this topic. Anyhow I post to try to learn, and general asshole attitudes don't help that.
 

Cherry Cola

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Give examples and continue the discussion

which I did...

Ni is all about gathering experiences anyway, its ridiculous to say its not a past function. It just doesn't understand the past in the same formal and factual manner as does Si.
 

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onesteptwostep

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So this pretty much explains why INTPs are lazy during the present.. they're always wandering about in the abstract past or the future.
 

StevenM

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I had a certain visualization in my head, and brought it to life:

attachment.php


I guess how I see it in words:

NP's unravel and break apart the past structured traditions and design original innovation,
while
SJ's order and organize new breakthroughs and habitualize them into protocol, passing them down through generations.

On the other axis:

NJ's gather and twine the experiences of chaotic streams of events and situations to determine a perception of effect, or fate,
while
SP's unravel the supposed effects of the determined future to experimentally create new experiences, thus contradicting destiny, and lay into memory their instigation of their power of freewill.

At least, for the P-doms.

When perception is in aux/tert, then I suppose there is more of a balance between both ends of the axis. For example, in INTP's, there is more of an even distribution between Si and Ne.
 

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QuickTwist

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Good old Mr. Cherry, always so delightfully dramatic.
 

Architect

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Good old Mr. Cherry, always so delightfully dramatic.

Yeah I live with an INFJ so get my fair share of drama. I come online to get away from that. Ni/Fe is an explosive mixture seemingly.
 
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