Ti in INFPs

[OrLevitate]

prong me latte

 

[Grayman]

The way the story was described was what was touted as what indicated the type. Relating to the story would not be sufficiently analogous to that indicator.

An intp is still capable of speaking in this fasion when it is something they really have compassion for. He has spoke this way since he got here but more subtle so most evidence points to infp.

 

[The Gopher]

Personally I wouldn't care about some guys cat that much. However I wouldn't bother discerning Ti from Fi, it's much more efficient to go for Fe or Te.

I say this because they are both more.. volatile.. and thus easier to spot. That said the Te links with Fi so you have to be careful to see if you are looking at Fe being more social group how it should be or Te looking at how the system should be and using Fi to create Fe like effects.

Either way it's far easier to spot the extroverted functions and inferior functions I find.

Either way continue my minions! I'm waiting for your conclusion.

 

[Latte]

: )

prong me latte

P-prong you?

But I hardly know you D:

 

[redbaron]

@RB (About behavior based analysis criticism)
BGs reasoning seems based on internal motivations and mechanisms he finds derivable from the text rather than behavior.

Same sort of thing. Internal motivations as they relate to one incident is not a reliable basis for a typological conclusion.

@RB (Rest)
Multiple angles of attack which contextualize each other is significantly more rigorous and thus more reliable, yeah. There is merit in a multipronged approach due to the conclusion having to make sense with several different layers/kinds of information or analysis.

Pretty much. I'll reiterate that I'm not even trying to contradict the INFP conclusion, just the way in which people have a tendency to draw hasty typological conclusions from limited information. Conclusions as a standalone are rather moot.

 

[Base groove]

I see where you're coming from but I think you're just blind to the information and choosing to deny it even exists rather than being open to the possibility that it's simply not revealed itself to you yet. Not everything has to be explained bit by bit.

Your present opinions appear to be generalizable to a vast majority if not every single typological debate on this forum and elsewhere. What a drab, dismal, dull world this would be, if we were cautious to such a fault that we lose all ability to make reasonable judgement calls on incomplete data; can you not see that nobody would be able to receive any answers or validation or ... conclusions? ... so long as we have not exhausted their life story to the fullest depths we do not have enough information to pass a typological judgement... that's just silly. It's ridiculous.

I suppose this is what is most difficult about perceiving patterns and finding meaning where there is none.....

 

[redbaron]

What a drab, dismal, dull world this would be, if we were cautious to such a fault that we lose all ability to make reasonable judgement calls on incomplete data.

What an exciting, animated and lively world it would be, if people would drop their preconceptions and avoid passing judgement on incomplete data.

Imagine if instead of getting defensive over neutral discussion, people would endeavour to explore things in greater depth - like having OrLevitate elucidate further on his own perceptions and experiences. As opposed to saying, "98% INFP" which essentially closes the topic off from discussing further intelllectual plausibilities.

The most interesting part of this thread (imo) was the discussion between PmjPmj and OrLevitate, as well as having OrLevitate describe his personal experiences. The most boring part was watching people assert one-liner conclusions, effectively killing such discussion.

And yes, what I said is indeed generalizable to a lot of typological discussion. Most of it consists of hasty generalizations and poorly thought out conclusions. Things that only serve to further reinforce poor typing methodology.

 

[OrLevitate]

I'm totes up for more questions but I'm pretty sure I'm INFP for reasons I don't remember.

 

[Grayman]

I'm totes up for more questions but I'm pretty sure I'm INFP for reasons I don't remember.

Probably best. They may be at this for a while. Haven't seen rb this riled up in awhile. I don't believe it possible for RB to get irritated but the word riled was the best fit that came to mind.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

No worries about being a non-INTP here. Most active users here probably aren't, actually.

I deleted it when I thought of what everyone would think of me via that post.

I have a problem with people defining themselves relative to other people, the rat race etc, and not thinking up actual ways to live their life but rather just being better than the other lives according to the present institution.

It's actually already affected my mental acuity for the better. I'm used to having... slothful mental influences around me.

When you listen to music, must the music match your mood (leading you to hit skip 30-40x before finding something suitable) or does your mood change with every song?

Do you identify with Kraepelin waves?

Have moments while doing something perfectly normal, like driving, and then randomly remember something that makes you emotional?

Spoiler

Preferring music that matches your existing mood, having a variable mood that's independent of external factors when alone (other people driving you nuts to the point of irrationality excluded), and having random bouts of episodic memory all indicate Fi. Couple this with random things you do for no reason other than that they make you feel good (driving around town @15mph and talking to hobos, for example), that "I'm not your bitch get off my lawn" aspect of enneagram type 4 (even though you call yourself walk-overable, you're conscious that you are...), and that ability to stab right into the TMI territory of strangers... xNFP

So then, assuming my prediction of your answers is correct, Ne-Fi ENFP or Fi-Ne INFP? Note that Jung's cognitive extroversion differs from social extroversion. Not all ENxPs are talkative people-liking folk.

*EDIT: Type 4, not 5. Messed up.

 

[OrLevitate]

Probably best. They may be at this for a while. Haven't seen rb this riled up in awhile. I don't believe it possible for RB to get irritated but the word riled was the best fit that came to mind.

lolol that's interesting I don't know anything of him.

No worries about being a non-INTP here. Most active users here probably aren't, actually.

When you listen to music, must the music match your mood (leading you to hit skip 30-40x before finding something suitable) or does your mood change with every song?

Do you identify with Kraepelin waves?

Have moments while doing something perfectly normal, like driving, and then randomly remember something that makes you emotional?

Spoiler

Preferring music that matches your existing mood, having a variable mood that's independent of external factors when alone (other people driving you nuts to the point of irrationality excluded), and having random bouts of episodic memory all indicate Fi. Couple this with random things you do for no reason other than that they make you feel good (driving around town @15mph and talking to hobos, for example), that "I'm not your bitch get off my lawn" aspect of enneagram type 5 (even though you call yourself walk-overable, you're conscious that you are...), and that ability to stab right into the TMI territory of strangers... xNFP

So then, assuming my prediction of your answers is correct, Ne-Fi ENFP or Fi-Ne INFP? Note that Jung's cognitive extroversion differs from social extroversion. Not all ENxPs are talkative people-liking folk.

I'm going to think about a genuine answer

 

[OrLevitate]

Spoiler

Preferring music that matches your existing mood, having a variable mood that's independent of external factors when alone (other people driving you nuts to the point of irrationality excluded), and having random bouts of episodic memory all indicate Fi. Couple this with random things you do for no reason other than that they make you feel good (driving around town @15mph and talking to hobos, for example), that "I'm not your bitch get off my lawn" aspect of enneagram type 4 (even though you call yourself walk-overable, you're conscious that you are...), and that ability to stab right into the TMI territory of strangers... xNFP

So then, assuming my prediction of your answers is correct, Ne-Fi ENFP or Fi-Ne INFP? Note that Jung's cognitive extroversion differs from social extroversion. Not all ENxPs are talkative people-liking folk.

*EDIT: Type 4, not 5. Messed up.

yea that stuff

 

[OrLevitate]

http://personalityjunkie.com/enfp/
stuff I identify with from the above page:

They are constantly scanning for new and interesting people, ideas, and possibilities.

sort of hybrid between Introverts and Extraverts.
I'm usually the introverted one in the group but I mean I can be quite extraverted some times I kno I'm no help with figuring me out hah

idealistic, restless, and open-minded,

They can be restless, anxious, and plagued by erratic sleeping patterns.
-but not restless on the outside, ehh I dunno about restless, but definitely the other two. definitely.

one can even observe this restlessness in ENFPs’ eyes, which are commonly darting broadly from one side to another, as though searching for something in their surroundings. What they are actually searching for, however, is more mental in nature, such as words, ideas, or possibilities (i.e., Ne). ENFPs are constantly generating new ideas, associations,

In many regards, the interests and aspirations of ENFPs are infinite.

ENFPs are among the least judgmental and most inclusive of all types,
I always call people too judgemental that's like my number 1 thing to judge people for and the inclusive is true too

Their Extraverted Intuition (Ne) allows them to readily see different points of view, while their Introverted Feeling (Fi) supplies a sense of empathy and respect for individuality.
-that makes more sense I didn't read up on this stuff enough I figured the E vs I only meant the social thing but seeing different points is certainly over the sense of empathy and respect. I kind of think i can see different points of view so much I adopt the view of whatever type I think I am and all my behavior stems from that subcon bias. I'm a void shell of a man fluid like the water filling whatever container.

While some ENFPs are content with working largely with ideas, others seek to combine this with action and adventure. Such individuals may take up work as missionaries, tour guides, or diplomats.
-I mean this is pretty accurate, I wish I could be a missionary. I've always wanted to just have something like religion to revolve around and spread it around the world, to have strong purpose and eggzistentiul meening. always played the monk ever since neverwinter nights. Wanting to turn the ideas into action and go spirit bomb on the world is true.

interest in history that may add to the allure of religious, political, or journalistic work.
-that's true but that's a pretty general statement. ever read Pastwatch: redemption of Colombus? cool book much recommend.

ENFP's are outnumbered 2:1 by females but I guess that makes sense I've always been in touch with my feminine side (i'm straight, but that makes me wonder; are different sexual preferences more highly represented in different types? Different genders are so I guess so.)

 

[The Gopher]

Pretty much. I'll reiterate that I'm not even trying to contradict the INFP conclusion, just the way in which people have a tendency to draw hasty typological conclusions from limited information. Conclusions as a standalone are rather moot.

Other people are probably working with more information than you. Ni and Fi types for sure are. That doesn't mean you aren't correct though. When it comes down to an exact science having ALL information is best and that is where your skills come into play. However just thought I should point out that that others may have a lot of passive information that they can't necessarily explain. Base Groove in particular tends to work this way it seems.

Just pointing out why base thinks you are blind to information and why you think the judgement is hasty.

But continuing the discussion is nice and can only lead to a more accurate result. Giving Oreo peace of mind would require a quicker conclusion though :P

 

[OrLevitate]

Oreo

lol

 

[redbaron]

However just thought I should point out that that others may have a lot of passive information that they can't necessarily explain.

Not really. I already saw all of the things mentioned, in addition to a whole lot of extra concepts and information that support particular conclusions. Let's not conflate withholding a conclusion to not having formed any.

I guess the worst part is that in a more holistic sense, there's several users on the forum who are quite well-versed in typology and its effective application. They don't seem all that interested in arguing with typology newbs though, and I can't really blame them. Zealotry and intelligence naturally repel one another.

Which is why I have no problem saying that in light of this fact, a large majority of typological discussions on this website are indeed - garbage.

 

[OrLevitate]

if i were retarded, would i know it? i often think of this. like maybe i'm retarded and people are just 'letting me be a normal adult' because i got testy when i thought they were treating me like a retard but turns out i am and also in reality all the roommates i've ever had have been caretakers and i've just been under the illusion that i'm a normal free adult. every grade i've gotten's been rigged and it's why i get along with most people cuz no one really can hate me since im retarded. theres a device in my guitar playing noise when i strum the chords and every video game has actually been against bots not people. every job i've gotten has been conspired through some foundation for social inclusion of mentally disabled and this site is just a bunch of kind people pandering to my retardedness how much are you getting paid?! where's the man in the moon i must speak with him TRUUUMaaaaaaNNNN

edit; i know truman is the protagonist not the antagonist but i'm too tired to fit the allusion in deftly

 

[Cherry Cola]

Base Groove don't bother, these people just don't understand the power of Ni.

 

[redbaron]

According to Base Groove I'm an INTJ though. So clearly my Ni is just more powerful and developed than yours.

 

[Cherry Cola]

It always makes me laugh when people can be certain of someone's type based on descriptions of singular events. One single event could indicate any number of things. I think pretty much anyone who holds concern for animals in general could relate to the story, regardless of their type.

Also, is Polaris 98% INFP? She relates to the story.

I'd wager that a great multitude of people could relate to the story, whether they're Fi or not. It's borderline meaningless typologically as a standalone indicator of type.

First of all Anal. Second someone relating to the story is 100% irrelevant. Thirdly, forced skepticism. Lastly Base Groove already said what needs to be said.

 

[OrLevitate]

https://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENFP_car.html
ENFPs generally have the following traits:


Project-oriented
Bright and capable
Warmly, genuinely interested in people; great people skills
Extremely intuitive and perceptive about people
Able to relate to people on their own level
Service-oriented; likely to put the needs of others above their own
Future-oriented
Dislike performing routine tasks
Need approval and appreciation from others
Cooperative and friendly
Creative and energetic
Well-developed verbal and written communication skills
Natural leaders, but do not like to control people
Resist being controlled by others
Can work logically and rationally - use their intuition to understand the goal and work backwards towards it
Usually able to grasp difficult concepts and theories


wowowow much relate

 

[Base groove]

According to Base Groove I'm an INTJ though. So clearly my Ni is just more powerful and developed than yours.

Hmm I'm not so sure this is the case.

Most recently, I have reminded you of my conviction that you are Te user. In addition, I believe you are a T-type, as well as introverted.

In fact, if you could possibly recall correctly, I have actually suggested you are an ENTJ in the past (most recently of all), but I do accept you are introverted so Te-dominant must be wrong.

This leaves INTJ or ISTJ.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before but I'm afraid not...anymore.. after this thread. Given your reluctance to envision a particular perspective and your stubbornness that your criteria are not met for adequate discussion to proceed, ...as well as your insistence on acquisition of concrete/factual data rather than relying on trends or patterns ... yeah .. I'm going with ISTJ for now.

I am quite open to new information, but I am able and willing to make temporary but firm judgements based on probabilities and incomplete information. The word 'hasty' is often used, and I don't deny it all that much, but hasty does not equal wrong, which appears to be one point you're trying to make.

@Gopher@CC@thread

Thank you for helping me understand that just because I think I see something it doesn't make it real. Ni is a fool's domain; only a fool believes what his mind shows him above all else.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I think both Gopher and I commented more on the vehement nature of the initial backlash rather than the fact that you were being questioned however.

That and the behavorial context lacking approach, Redbaron showcased regarding the cat story.

 

[redbaron]

Hasty does not equal wrong, which appears to be one point you're trying to make.

Nope. I haven't even put forward any contradiction to your conclusion, only methodology.

insistence on acquisition of concrete/factual data rather than relying on trends or patterns

Nope, wrong again.

My point has practically nothing to do with concrete data in the slighest. Not enough instances given to actually provide a solid trend or pattern. By their very definitions, a lot of data is required to reliably identify trends or patterns.

When I was a teenager, I would have jumped all over the INFP bandwagon. Experience tells me though, that as tempting as it might be to conclude something, one very rarely has an entire picture.

The funny part is that you think I'm talking about concrete data, when I'm actually talking entirely about building a holistic case based on the entirety of a person's behaviours, thoughts, feelings and outside influences. I've already said as much in a previous post.

In essence, identifying the overall pattern of an entire person. Because if we're to believe that type is something a product of nature, it stands to reason that there will be many different pieces of information that align with very specific conclusions.

It's amazing how backwards you've got this. I'm not displaying a reliance on data, I'm displaying my distrust of data - because one must first understand the context behind and surrounding data before it can be trusted.

Short version, because you're obviously struggling here.

> I haven't contested the INFP conclusion
> I contest the generally sloppy methods in which typology is often applied
> I enjoy reading open discussion between people, not arbitrary one-liner conclusions
> I'm not insisting on concrete/factual data. I don't even think there's such a thing as concrete data...
> I'd like to get a much more holistic picture of Oreo (because fuck it, it's easier than OrLevitate) before stating, "98%" conclusions

 

[Base groove]

I thought this was funny:

Spoiler

The INTJ's interest in dealing with the world is to make decisions, express judgments, and put everything that they encounter into an understandable and rational system. Consequently, they are quick to express judgments. Often they have very evolved intuitions, and are convinced that they are right about things. Unless they complement their intuitive understanding with a well-developed ability to express their insights, they may find themselves frequently misunderstood. In these cases, INTJs tend to blame misunderstandings on the limitations of the other party, rather than on their own difficulty in expressing themselves. This tendency may cause the INTJ to dismiss others input too quickly, and to become generally arrogant and elitist.

Anyway @ Rb thanks for clearing all that up, for a moment there it seemed as if you did contest the INFP judgement because you were unable to make a thorough and clear determination from the pool of examples cited in favor of Fi. I was under the obviously mistaken impression from your earlier posts in this thread that you believed the examples were equally if not more indicative of INTP.

 

[BigApplePi]

@anybody.

My point has practically nothing to do with concrete data in the slighest. Not enough instances given to actually provide a solid trend or pattern. By their very definitions, a lot of data is required to reliably identify trends or patterns.

When I was a teenager, I would have jumped all over the INFP bandwagon. Experience tells me though, that as tempting as it might be to conclude something, one very rarely has an entire picture. ...

In essence, identifying the overall pattern of an entire person. Because if we're to believe that type is something a product of nature, it stands to reason that there will be many different pieces of information that align with very specific conclusions. ...
> I'm not insisting on concrete/factual data. I don't even think there's such a thing as concrete data...
> I'd like to get a much more holistic picture of Oreo ...

There once was a young man from stolenville
Studies have shown thievery is not inherited
He became a thief was a crook
He looked very honest to boot

I don't know any tune for the ditty above and it's not the cleverest. Does it carry any truth at all though? What kind of person was he? Since thievery is not inherited, there is no natural thief temperament. Yet he became a thief so he acquired a thief's temperament. Most of the time when the public looks at him he appears honest. So his behavior temperament is honesty. His police record over the years shows thievery. This means the longer term view of him is the temperament of the thief. Yet the real long term temperament must be non-thief because thievery in not innate. This means some think he can be rehabilitated to a long term honest state. So what is his real temperament? Deeply honest, thief or superficially honest?

 

[Grayman]

This thread is making me type confused.

I am now an INTJ also.

Since this is a rashly made decision without ample evidence to support my claim. I now know that i truly am an INTJ.

Maybe an INTJ can jump to conclusions and let the mind handle the evidence to come to some magical answer. INTJ also often jump into holes before they realize it is a hole and then they wonder what idiot put a hole there.

The simple fact is that OrLevitate has had a lifetime of self discovery and we have known him but a short while and have only seen little of him. There is no better person to define who he is than he himself. It is simply a matter of learning what Fi, Fe, Ti, Te, Ni, Ne, Si Se are so that he can determine this.

 

[BigApplePi]

This thread is making me type confused.

There is no question you are certain about this.

I am now an INTJ also.

Welcome to the club.

Since this is a rashly made decision without ample evidence to support my claim. I now know that i truly am an INTJ.

There was no need to say this as everyone knows how true that is.

Maybe an INTJ can jump to conclusions and let the mind handle the evidence to come to some magical answer. INTJ also often jump into holes before they realize it is a hole and then they wonder what idiot put a hole there.

Very well put ... magic is an excellent tool.

The simple fact is that OrLevitate has had a lifetime of self discovery and we have known him but a short while and have only seen little of him. There is no better person to define who he is than he himself. It is simply a matter of learning what Fi, Fe, Ti, Te, Ni, Ne, Si Se are so that he can determine this.

No fact could be simpler. Who could know one better after an entire lifetime? It is not possible to make the same mistakes about ourselves that others make.

 

[The Gopher]

I agree with grey man, also typing people based on text forum posts alone and assuming you are correct is very silly. Typing them on what they say about themselves is closer but even a little knowledge of typing by the individual should allow them to come to a better conclusion.

So we should probably focus more on helping people understand the functions like you said. That said is is OBVIOUSLY Fi Si Ne Te in any order. :P

 

[BigApplePi]

Originally Posted by OrLevitate

There's new 'lost cat' posters up around my apt. complex, mentioning how she's a beloved family pet, and with a totally innocuous endearing picture of the cat just relaxing all unassuming like.

My cool Ne observes how others feel cats can be beloved and endearing. I use my Fe to say this. At least I think so. Now what the heck was I feeling when I said that?


Originally Posted by OrLevitate

There's new 'lost cat' posters up around my apt. complex, mentioning how she's a beloved family pet, and with a totally innocuous endearing picture of the cat just relaxing all unassuming like.

I feel like such a fool for saying that. I can't stand the thought of a cat being alone and lost. Think of what the families must feel. That cat is so cute and now my heart breaks for everyone. Everyone must get off their butts and put up more posters. I'm putting out food every day and won't stop until that poor cat is found. It will be found. I'm certain of that.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

wowowow much relate

<- Winner winner chicken dinner.

 

[principle]

No worries about being a non-INTP here. Most active users here probably aren't, actually.

When you listen to music, must the music match your mood (leading you to hit skip 30-40x before finding something suitable) or does your mood change with every song?

Do you identify with Kraepelin waves?

Have moments while doing something perfectly normal, like driving, and then randomly remember something that makes you emotional?

Spoiler

Preferring music that matches your existing mood, having a variable mood that's independent of external factors when alone (other people driving you nuts to the point of irrationality excluded), and having random bouts of episodic memory all indicate Fi. Couple this with random things you do for no reason other than that they make you feel good (driving around town @15mph and talking to hobos, for example), that "I'm not your bitch get off my lawn" aspect of enneagram type 4 (even though you call yourself walk-overable, you're conscious that you are...), and that ability to stab right into the TMI territory of strangers... xNFP

So then, assuming my prediction of your answers is correct, Ne-Fi ENFP or Fi-Ne INFP? Note that Jung's cognitive extroversion differs from social extroversion. Not all ENxPs are talkative people-liking folk.

*EDIT: Type 4, not 5. Messed up.

HabitatDoctor can you explain where you were going with this post? I cant put a word on it but i find it interesting when you ask this type of question. I too am debating whether im INTP/INFP.

All this stuff on Cog functions makes me think that i have been thinking about MBTI in such a subjective level, which leads me to some questions

Hypothetically, if i was an INFP and my dominant trait was Fi, can one consciously feel their dominant function (Fi) inside them when trying to make decisions? Can the Introverted Feeling use wishful thinking and be masked to thinking its objective when they find empirical evidence (Te), and make it look like Ti? when its actually Fi-Te? How possible is it for this to happen?

I have noticed many people on the internet seem to found find themselves on the borderline between F and T on MBTI testing. Which is why they cannot type themselves INTP or INFP? But to my understanding you cant be an INxP, looking at the two types its rather F or T cognitive functions that profoundly dominant are too far-fetched to make any sense. But again, if one finds themselves on the border line between F and T on MBTI socionics tests etc., doesnt this mean that A) INFP is using Fi and Te in order to objectify there argument (somewhat disilluioned). Or B) an INTP using Ti with a well developed Fe(nice intellectual)? I also remember someone claiming that INFP are the most logical Feelers which can also lead to this conclusion. I can see how it can go both ways but then again im a noobie to all this stuff so i cant say much, only ask hypothetical questions and hope for answers =P