Ti&Fi or Te&Fe combo is impossible in the first 4, why oh why?

[SkyWalker]

This would be the full judgement spectrum:

And this would be the partial judgement spectrum of MBTI:

In MBTI the Te&Fi combo and the Ti&Fe combo are linked in the first 4 functions (see table):
- The more Te, the less Fi, and vice versa.
- The more Ti, the less Fe, and vice versa
(more=closer to first function, less=further away from first function)

Extra explanation of the circle parts:
- ExTJ is the top part because it has Te as a 1st function (see table) and Fi as a 4th function (see table). Since it has very strong Te, the position is closest to Te.
- IxTJ is the next part because it has Te as a 2nd function (see table) and Fi as a 3rd function (see table). The Te is still stronger than the Fi here, but its position is a bit more towards Fi than the previous part, because the Fi is a bit stronger and the Te a bit weaker than the previous one.
-...and the same idea for the other parts...

According to the table, the Ti&Fi-combo and Te&Fe-combo dont exist in the first 4 functions, hence: an impossible spectrum.

Can we analyze this more here??

What makes the impossible spectrum so impossible anyway? What is the reason for this?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I'd say you got the locations wrong.

We have 2 variables and 4 possible combinations:

Tx, Ty
Fx, Fy

In terms of arrangement, they are as follows:

Xy, Xy ; Yx, Yx = Same process, same orientation = 4/1
Tx, Ty ; Fx, Fy = Same process, different orientation = 1/2
Tx, Fx ; Ty, Fy = Different process, same orientation = 1/2
Tx, Fy ; Ty, Fx = Different process, different orientation = 1/4

1/2 should be separated by arcs - perpendicular
1/4 should be separated horizontally or vertically

 

[a detached retina]

I just think of my personality type as an unruly bunch of used functions. in this order Ni Ti Ne Fe Si Fi Se Te

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I'd say you got the locations wrong.

We have 2 variables and 4 possible combinations:

Tx, Ty
Fx, Fy

In terms of arrangement, they are as follows:

Xy, Xy ; Yx, Yx = Same process, same orientation = 4/1
Tx, Ty ; Fx, Fy = Same process, different orientation = 1/2
Tx, Fx ; Ty, Fy = Different process, same orientation = 1/2
Tx, Fy ; Ty, Fx = Different process, different orientation = 1/4

1/2 should be separated by arcs - perpendicular
1/4 should be separated horizontally or vertically

Also, I think this mathematically invalidates MBTI, in the sense that 1/4 functions should be complementary(1/4*4/1) not antithetical (e.g. INTP TiNe & ESFJ FeSi). I propose that this demands a reassessment of functions to types.

 

[SkyWalker]

Also, I think this mathematically invalidates MBTI, in the sense that 1/4 functions should be complementary(1/4*4/1) not antithetical (e.g. INTP TiNe & ESFJ FeSi). I propose that this demands a reassessment of functions to types.

i dont get it (both of your posts)

and btw i updated my main post so its more clear what i mean

 

[EyeSeeCold]

i dont get it (both of your posts)

and btw i updated my main post so its more clear what i mean

I'm saying that Fi and Te, Si and Ne, Ni and Se, & Ti and Fe should be polar, but complementary opposites.

You have Ti opposite Te, but they are closer to each other than Ti and Fe. So why is Fe on the side of Ti and not opposite Ti?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I think the hypothesis basically states that we should have Je, Ji, Pe and Pi (with one as dominant, so that the others naturally fall in heirarchy given that Ji&Pe or Je&Pi are able to act in unison) as well as T, F, N and S (so, we can process any type of information, but with specialisation as to what we focus on), and that these will manifest in the simplest possible combination for ease of functioning (Ockham's razor sorta deal here), i.e. only one of each kind of function.

So, if the above is satisfied, then we have the 16 types as per MBTI.

 

[GYX_Kid]

if i get high, i feel very Ti Se Fi Ne.
i don't know.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Noting the richness of your senses isn't Se. You probably don't have quite the Se appearance as you think you do. You are still INTP, but your functions are more free.

 

[LPolaright]

Ey skywalker, what's up with your theory with the trees and growing? Where is it now?

Surely didn't expect to find you are still here.

as for the question:

the MBTI basically says you have 4 functions that you can split into two halves that complement each other. Letter-wise, yes they are polars, but in the end they complement each other.

They aren't really polars - the fact that loads of people put them in a circle is just because it's difficult for newb's to understand the system - What you show here is the faulty in here. It creates a problematic situation indeed.

But then again, I might be wrong - maybe the MBTI does consider these functions as polarities rather then complementaries. And then you are right - this is weird.

As to how to really draw it - I have no idea, I'm sure there are people here that are wiser and have more time then me to think about it. But I'll definitely think about an graphic display.

 

[SkyWalker]

It is not either/or. All opposites should complement each other to make up the full spectrum. Opposites & Complementaries. Both apply. Although opposites can be contradictory, they are still complementary to make up full spectrum reality in total.

Actually, you can see what MBTI regards as the "most opposite" of each function, by comparing the position of the 1st and the 8th function:
- If Te is the 1st then Fe is the 8th and vice versa. Thus Te is most opposite to Fe and vice versa
- If Ti is the 1st then Fi is the 8th and vice versa. Thus Ti is most opposite to Fi and vice versa
- etcetera

I could have swapped Fe/Ti (diagonally mirroring the bottom part) in my graph, but that doesnt change much in a 2D graph, so thats why I left it like this.

P.S. "Seeing rationalities grow, like seeing the whole tree grow just by being shown the seed" = my Ne description. (C) Skywalker

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

It's hard to talk about opposites in MBTI - there's far too much ambiguity as to what it is you mean exactly, so you'll have to come up with a new set of terminology for discussing it. So, you need to make 6 different terms for any pair of functions to discuss their relationship.

Mine were: Ti/Ti = identity, Ti/Te = complement, Ti/Fi = parallel, Ti/Fe = inferior, Ti/Pi = tertiary, Ti/Pe = auxiliary.

Then you could make a new inventory of terms for discussing the relationships between each type (maybe 8 terms, where you give one from each set of four to each pair of types).

 

[SkyWalker]

It's only about opposites? There is nothing else?

 

[Words]

I like your application of the spectrum perspective.

 

[SkyWalker]

I like your application of the spectrum perspective.

Thanks.

Of course there is a spectrum.
- The 16 MBTI types are just a classification of that spectrum in 16 boxes.
- And the functions are just "beacons" (or "absolutes") in that spectrum.

But how does that spectrum flow exactly and in how many dimensions does it flow? Can we project it into a 3D drawing?