Thoughts on BLM/Cops

[Not Anyone To Care For]

What are your people's thoughts on the current problems between BLM and the police?

 

[Seteleechete]

The US police and the public seems to get along a lot worse than European counterparts. It makes it hard for me to form an opinion because generally police here are very friendly, cooperative and understanding. US cops seem to have a more militant way of going about things. Of course it's this very same militant approach that alienates the population and makes it necessary. It's a deep stemming cultural issue that isn't easily fixed. The police shootings is just a cover justification for it and is fairly trivial objectively.

In response to bad experience there is further escalation from the population. It's an evil circle that neither side can break and there isn't any true political will for it either. Doesn't help when unrelated(and stupid) agendas like BLM, hijacks it all and uses those sentiments to push their agenda further escalating things.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

For the law/police:
Abolish mandatory minimum sentencing for nonviolent crimes; decriminalize possession/use of current controlled substances(transport still illegal); legalize marijuana; abolish ticketing quotas; disseminate body cameras, scale back cruiser patrols, and reintroduce foot patrols; establish community centers and "incentives" in cities where police can interact with the locales; protect the filming of officers that does not directly impede their responsibilities; require residency to apply for local law enforcement positions; officers surrender the civil right to bear arms if their weapon is discharged without urgent cause until counseling, retraining and approval...


For the citizens:
Fathers love your sons and daughters. Mothers love your sons and daughters. Accept and discuss issues of mental health. Turn off the radio and television that pigeonholes urban culture into over-sexualized and aggressive scripts. Stop the anti intellectualism.

The US police and the public seems to get along a lot worse than European counterparts. It makes it hard for me to form an opinion because generally police here are very friendly, cooperative and understanding. US cops seem to have a more militant way of going about things. Of course it's this very same militant approach that alienates the population and makes it necessary. It's a deep stemming cultural issue that isn't easily fixed. The police shootings is just a cover justification for it and is fairly trivial objectively.

Probably has something to do with this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cers-do-not-carry-firearms-and-it-works-well/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom

Aside from the different approaches to multiculturalism as well.

 

[onesteptwostep]

It's a local issue that's been lampooned into a national one. There's so many different permutations to this issue to really put out just a simple blanket statement.

According to my superficial research though the war on drugs I think was started by a Republican, namely by Jesse Helms, the guy who sang Dixie on the elevator. He helped passed this act which targeted black drug uses rather than white: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Drug_Abuse_Act_of_1986

Apparently blacks used crack cocaine a lot more than whites at the time, while whites were able to get a hand on powdered cocaine a lot easier.

edit: for summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs#Sentencing_disparities

 

[Pyropyro]

I really don't understand those BLM guys. I mean they interrupt gay pride parades and people that may want to help them like Bernie. Aren't the LGBT fellow activists that want the same things that they want?

 

[TBerg]

I don't want to repeat myself, so here is what I said:

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=24653

 

[Not Anyone To Care For]

I don't want to repeat myself, so here is what I said:

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=24653

Those are some very good points, I appreciate everyone participation in this thread it helped me clear my mind a little bit.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

It's a local issue that's been lampooned into a national one. There's so many different permutations to this issue to really put out just a simple blanket statement.

According to my superficial research though the war on drugs I think was started by a Republican, namely by Jesse Helms, the guy who sang Dixie on the elevator. He helped passed this act which targeted black drug uses rather than white: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Drug_Abuse_Act_of_1986

Apparently blacks used crack cocaine a lot more than whites at the time, while whites were able to get a hand on powdered cocaine a lot easier.

edit: for summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs#Sentencing_disparities

War on people drugs:
I'd say you could spin the clock back even further to find more problematic legislation starting with campaigns against marijuana, cocaine and heroin in the early 20th century.

 

[onesteptwostep]

It's debatable, but the legislation passed in 1986 specifically targeted blacks in the lie that crack cocaine was somehow 100x times worse than powdered cocaine. You have to realize that the person who passed it was undeniably racist too. It's Jesse Helms that we're talking about here. He's the one responsible for the incarnation and the subsequent break up of the black family.

The spike in federal incareration started in 1980 with Jimmy Carter, but with Ronald Reagan taking office the year after I'm guessing to challenge the drug policy was political suicide, especially when you had someone as senior as Jesse Helms heading it. Then you had the George H.W. years which where all about foreign policy and not quite domestic.

 

[TBerg]

You can't increase the sentencing of criminals without having criminals for whom to increase sentences. That begs the question: Why is there social breakdown among blacks that has occurred before and in greater numbers than the number of increased breakdown among whites? Why is white society breaking down as well, for that matter?

 

[onesteptwostep]

Er, going to jail for 5 grams of crack cocaine but not being able to go to jail for 499 grams of powdered cocaine seems pretty unbalanced to me. The bill was specifically designed to cripple blacks. We're talking about Jesse Helms here.

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

BLM is an immature movement in many definitions of that word (Watch video of the Selma-Montgomery march for comparison. Very, very different organization and demeanor), and police... I actually think they're mostly okay, but the trend over the past decade or so has definitely highlighted areas in need of improvement, specifically recruitment, communication, and adaptive management, imho. I ultimately see BLM as a component of larger issues like the war on drugs and actually international politics.

Otherwise, it's very different hanging out personally on the streets with either protesters (any protesters, in any movement) or police. A sickening majority of opinion is derived from media portrayal vs actual experience.

 

[Pyropyro]

(English translation: Caught on tape! pedicab driver killed while begging for mercy)

The video/ article above is just a thought that I want to share about erring cops.

The pedicab driver was accosted by the police and then shot at the foot. The guy naturally flee for his life until cornered. He was trying to give up to be arrested but then he got gunned down.

The video says:

Police: Oh he's been shot, he's been bleeding. He'll come out soon.
Woman: Big Brother (an informal sign of respect, not necessarily blood related). Please stop!
Police: Don't interfere!
Suspect: Okay I'm going to give up.
[gunfire]

The man is not known by his wife and neighbors as a pusher or even a drug user btw. He wasn't even carrying a gun.

So my thought is, appreciate your police force more. They usually only kill after being afraid of the suspect (the justification of the killing itself is another question entirely). Ours will corner and kill you simply because you are prey.

 

[bvanevery]

That begs the question: Why is there social breakdown among blacks that has occurred before and in greater numbers than the number of increased breakdown among whites?

The legacy of slavery, duh. Are you really that blind to long term historical factors, Tberg? Did your view of how great Western civilization is, somehow manage to skip the 19th century?

Anyways, the simple summary is, all the other immigrant groups in the USA came over with a minimal amount of stuff. Cooking pots, family units intact, some had contacts in the New World but not all. Blacks came over in chains, with nothing, and their family units were deliberately broken apart to make them more controllable. That does a lot of generational damage that takes a long time to recover from.

Segregation in the South is still in people's living memory, as well as forced sterilization procedures in NC and VA. De facto segregation still exists in Milwaukee, due to the historical practice of redlining.

During the heyday of redlining, the areas most frequently discriminated against were black inner city neighborhoods. For example, in Atlanta in the 1980s, a Pulitzer Prize-winning series of articles by investigative-reporter Bill Dedman showed that banks would often lend to lower-income whites but not to middle- or upper-income blacks.[7]

What part of "white people mostly wanted to keep the niggers in their place" don't you understand? They haven't had all that long to recover from any of it, and in some places these facts on the ground are still ongoing.

 

[TBerg]

You still elide over the point. Why did it become worse for them after Chief Justice Warren and President Johnson? Why were supposed white supremacists seemingly better for blacks, under the analysis? How is it that, after the Civil Rights Era and progressives and blacks taking over more and more governments and neighborhoods that blacks are now treated more harshly than even during slavery? Why is the illegitimacy rate higher than under slavery? Why are there fewer families than under slavery? You can't play the slavery card if things were better for most blacks under that system than the current one. You can't claim this situation is not terrible for blacks when black intellectuals and activists complain about the situation all the time. Are we seriously thinking that having blacks in prison is better than having them out on the field and in the workhouses? This position is completely incoherent.

 

[bvanevery]

You still elide over the point. Why did it become worse for them after Chief Justice Warren and President Johnson?

Above I quoted you an instance of redlining in Atlanta from 1980. You can't just pick whatever decade you like and claim everything got "solved" back then. Racism with direct economic impact on blacks is a recent phenomenon. Heck where I grew up in Winston-Salem, NC, any fool can see that the black side of town doesn't get anywhere near the resources as the wealthy white side of town, particularly educational resources. There were 2 black girls in my high school Advanced Placement classes, that's it.

This again would have been 1980s stuff. I'm guessing you might have been born then? So this is all stuff that's been going on merely since you were alive. All you're doing is trying to figure out history in the limited number years you've had to absorb and try to make sense of it.

Why is the illegitimacy rate higher than under slavery?

Where are you getting stats for slavery illegitimacy rates? I think it sounds preposterous that reliable stats from that era would even exist, but I'll give you the slight benefit of the doubt that you may know something I don't and can actually demonstrate those stats in short order. So, your references please. Otherwise this sounds like pure poppycock. Like white male masters raping their slaves are going to track all that stuff, so someone can do a historical survey of it later. Like there's a Pew organization calling everyone up on the phone, er, telegraph, er banging pots and pans or whatever they used back then.

Why are there fewer families than under slavery?

Given world population growth that statement doesn't even make any sense. So I guess you're going to try to define some "per capita" and I betcha your definitions are going to be questionable.

You can't play the slavery card if things were better for most blacks under that system than the current one.

What can you prove about "betterness" ? You think whipping feels good or something? Perhaps you're not aware of distinctions between house slaves and field slaves.

Are we seriously thinking that having blacks in prison is better than having them out on the field and in the workhouses?

Obviously they aren't all in prison today, whereas they were almost all slaves before, so your statement doesn't make any kind of basic sense.

Also after slavery, you have Jim Crow laws as the direct follow-on of slavery. Sure whites in the South can't keep slaves anymore, but they had other social tools for controlling blacks.

What is so hard about this stuff?

 

[TBerg]

https://newrepublic.com/article/91931/michele-bachmann-rick-santorum-slavery-families

 

[bvanevery]

BLM is an immature movement in many definitions of that word (Watch video of the Selma-Montgomery march for comparison. Very, very different organization and demeanor),

Perhaps a product of different times. Back then, TV was in its infancy. Now, we have "reality TV" as the model of how people may conduct themselves. So much so, that even a Presidential candidate may successfully engage in such antics. Well, succeeding until it fails, we can hope. Worked fine for getting his party's nomination, is my point. I don't know what kind of discipline or learning curve the BLM leadership has managed so far, but it's pretty clear they don't have control over a lot of their rank-and-file participants. People just act out according to the way their shitty reality TV society models for them.

What we should be really asking is, within an aggrieved population, why should we be expecting so much self-discipline and control out of mere humans? All through human history, civilians have rioted when they got fed up enough. You have to believe there's some point to operating within a system of law and order to constrain your actions. If you don't believe any law or social contract serves you in any way, then why bother? Quid pro quo.

 

[bvanevery]

https://newrepublic.com/article/91931/michele-bachmann-rick-santorum-slavery-families

This isn't commentary on an illegitimacy rate. It is commentary on 2-parent family rates, which are indeed historically trackable.

I never intended the image of "black families broken up by force" to stand for all time as some kind of permanent pattern among US blacks. I intended it as example of economic depredations inflicted on blacks upon their arrival here, that were not inflicted upon other immigrant groups. And so the playing field wasn't equal, and the resulting historical conditions decades down the line are not equal. Even the Irish, who had some bad deals upon first getting here, sometimes merely sent over as a child on a steam ship with nothing else, ultimately were white. In time they got a decent place at the American table.

The modern phenomenon of single mother households, is not simply or solely explained by welfare. Divorce and single parenting are acceptable now, in a way that wasn't back in slavery times. If I had a dime for every personal I've seen of a white young middle-class-or-higher woman with kids from the first hubby in tow, then I'd sit around looking at such personals all day to make a really good income. I think the difference is those women with some economic mobility, manage to get remarried somehow, although I don't know what the remarriage rates actually are.

There's probably also a supply of single dads who may be interested in remarrying someone else, just not the crazy dingbat the started with. Probably depends on economics some.

Don't got money? Got access to welfare? Probably changes things. Haven't looked into it much. But let's make sure we don't cherry pick all the divorce and single parenting behavior.

 

[TBerg]

Spoiler

The article I linked said that black family structure was virtually the same before Emancipation and until the Great Society. This chart shows that the same forces worked against the white family structure, thereby demonstrating that discrimination was not the origin of black and white social breakdown and the vast amount of criminal activity that resulted therefrom. All I am seeing from your text is standard leftist criticism of the United States and does not deal with the facts I am showing. The facts show that, since the advent of modern social and economic trends, families have broken apart, aided and abetted by Marxist activists and intellectuals, who saw the historical process of capitalism and socialism as liberation from old-fashioned institutions of family and community. What happened was that it was deemed racist to criticize this degrading trend that especially infected the black population, thereby pulling out all the stops from this happening in the black community.

Everything you say happened to black people was supposedly worse during the years of slavery and Jim Crow. How come things have not improved since these impediments were removed?

 

[bvanevery]

This chart shows that the same forces worked against the white family structure, thereby demonstrating that discrimination was not the origin of black and white social breakdown and the vast amount of criminal activity that resulted therefrom.

Pardon the obvious but whites in the USA generally have more money. You have to control for same income and education levels to make claims like that.

Everything you say happened to black people was supposedly worse during the years of slavery and Jim Crow. How come things have not improved since these impediments were removed?

I told you already and you don't seem eager to listen. Perhaps you will go over the older posts again, or perhaps you stubbornly won't. Divorce is more acceptable now than it used to be. Redlining was a common practice as recently as 1980.

One of my profs said "repetition is the key to all learning" and I think you need it.

 

[QuickTwist]

Its a complicated issue, and its not just one side being "wrong" about things. In principle I don't have a problem with BLM, but they take it places it shouldn't go. Blocking traffic in rush hour is not a way to get people to be empathetic to your cause. That said, the cops are fucking pricks with sticks so far up their ass its the dick that is talking and not them.

EyeSeeCold nailed it.

 

[TBerg]

So, according to you, blacks did not get full integration. That would have taken some time to accomplish as a matter of fact and not merely as a matter of law. But things should have been getting better and better while those barriers were being torn down, as the preachers of equality and justice would have had us believe. Their prophecies did not become fulfilled, however. Things actually became worse and worse for blacks during the period of integration and social justice.

As I said before, I fully realize that many of the things that happened to the black community also happened to poor whites. It was just that there were a greater proportion of blacks to be affected by the breakdown of society and the enabling of degenerate behavior. Blacks just had more excuses for this behavior, because people feared criticizing blacks after criticism was called a racist thing to do. As a part of a class of Basic Bitch White Muts, I know that we as a group hold white trash in greater contempt than black ghetto trash. Hence, they dindunuffin.

 

[Grayman]

White vs blacks... Who gives a shit? Scratch that. Does this blame game help blacks? It just makes people fight instead of help. The solutions that help white poor also help black poor.

Dont make poor neighborhoods pay for poor schools. The state should do a lot more to even the odds. Also, advertise more on the value of child education. Create good paying jobs so eople gave time to spend with their kids.

 

[bvanevery]

So, according to you, blacks did not get full integration.

Of course they didn't. Any fool can read the headlines in the USA nowadays and know that didn't happen. Progress is not the same thing as full integration. I've been saving the following news clip for awhile, waiting for the right thread to highlight it. Think this may be the time. Newscaster Don Lemon shares post-Dallas incident of being asked how he feels about it "as a nigger".

Things actually became worse and worse for blacks during the period of integration and social justice.

You like to say that things have gotten 'worse' for blacks but where is your evidence?

Anecdotal evidence of the opposite: that's a fairly well known newscaster on a major network. If he had a different persona, he'd be right to say something tough like, "You can call me Mr. Nigger." Compare old 60s (I think) trope of someone calling you a pussy, giving them the beat down, then informing them they may call you Mr. Pussy.

Anyways, fat chance of that guy having the job back in the day! We've even had a black Prez for almost 8 years now. Racism ain't over, but if that ain't progress I don't know what is.

As I said before, I fully realize that many of the things that happened to the black community also happened to poor whites. It was just that there were a greater proportion of blacks to be affected by the breakdown of society and the enabling of degenerate behavior. Blacks just had more excuses for this behavior, because people feared criticizing blacks after criticism was called a racist thing to do.

I say money talks. You'll need to be more specific than hand waving someone's "degenerate" behavior, whether black or white.

As a part of a class of Basic Bitch White Muts, I know that we as a group hold white trash in greater contempt than black ghetto trash. Hence, they dindunuffin.

I'm not quite sure how to unpack that last statement, but you'll have to speak for yourself on that one. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area where people were more civilized and liberal about such things for the most part. "I'm ok, you're ok," looking for answers to society's problems and stopping wars etc. Having lived in some other parts of the country, most notably the Bible Belt by contrast, it's pretty clear I got something in my cultural upbringing living in that region that other people didn't. Not that SF has no problems, there certainly are some. For instance growing up in Mill Valley, I hardly ever saw any black people. That experience had to wait until we moved to Winston-Salem, NC.

 

[TBerg]

The two charts I provided should be sufficient to justify my assertion that things are getting worse and worse for blacks. But let's add one more thing:

 

[pjoa09]

Maybe abolish guns? I guess then the police would never have a real reason to ever shoot. They can never say they were afraid or did it in self defense.

 

[bvanevery]

White vs blacks... Who gives a shit? Scratch that. Does this blame game help blacks? It just makes people fight instead of help. The solutions that help white poor also help black poor.

I am fully on board with poverty being the main driver of social ills.

Dont make poor neighborhoods pay for poor schools. The state should do a lot more to even the odds.

I've found the whole "school busing" debate to be fairly baffling, because it has sure seemed to me that it would be a lot easier to move money around than people. But it seems the facts on the ground are, if you don't intermix the bodies, so that everyone suffers equally, then nobody will spend the money on black education. Unfortunately in recent years I've read that lots of places have returned to de facto re-segregation of school districts.

Also, advertise more on the value of child education.

I think in the USA, it has to be remembered that a lot of people are relatively stupid and don't value formal education. They will value it only insofar as it will make them money. Then typically their view is shortsighted, only wanting those opportunities for family and social groups most in proximity to them. Especially, once their own kids are done with school, they don't want to pay for anyone's schooling anymore! Leaving other people to fend for themselves is no big deal to a lot of people. The systemic concept of "stupidity leads to poverty and then to crime" doesn't matter to them, they just moralize about it's their own damn fault.

So that would be an incredible propaganda victory if you could convince the bulk of anti-intellectual and even school hating Americans that education is actually a proactive part of society. They might be able to wrap their heads around a stronger trade school / vocational movement.

Create good paying jobs so eople gave time to spend with their kids.

This is not always easy to do in every geographic region of a large country. For instance it was recently pointed out to me that Asheville is not basically flat, so nobody wants to put large manufacturing facilities here. Too difficult to get the rail lines in and out. Which is ironic because Asheville used to have lots of trains when it was booming with lumber, that's how the Vanderbilts built their fortune. But that was then and this is now, it seems. Anyways the main economic drivers here are tourism and retirees. Young professional jobs, not so much. Jobs are scarce and wages are repressed in most sectors.

And, uh, Asheville actually has some money in it. Won't even get into places that have, like, nothing. People should leave those places but they don't.

 

[bvanevery]

The two charts I provided should be sufficient to justify my assertion that things are getting worse and worse for blacks. But let's add one more thing:

To me that looks like a growth chart of the Prison Industrial Complex. Someone figured out a nice business model at taxpayer expense and the growth in the business is up, up, up! Systemic racial bias within the justice system is not a hard concept. Blacks are also committing more crimes because they have more poverty and more discrimination in the workplace. Put those 2 together and I don't think those graphs are describing anything surprising.

I'm noticing those stats don't go back any farther than 1960, so what are you supposing "black attainment" really looked like from 1865 to 1960? That's pretty important as far as deciding whether anything is 'better' or 'worse'.

 

[bvanevery]

This says black incomes got better from 1967 to 2014, particularly at the topmost tiers of wealth, which previously they didn't have much access to.

 

[QuickTwist]

So, yeah, inflation and stuff.

 

[Minute Squirrel]

So, yeah, inflation and stuff.

I think it says its adjusted for inflation at the bottom.


BlLM is a stupid movement that seeks to change the world around the black community instead of fixing internal problems within it. It's detrimental and racist to it's own community insinuating that blacks need extra help and whites are obligated to give it to them. It's been nothing but divisive. It's created two groups of people who are one dimensional in the formation of their opinions and the gathering of their knowledge.

Saying that blacks were better off in the 60's because they had less crime and a tighter family unit is ridiculous. Of course there was less crime just being black was so much of an offence back then that staying under the radar seemed to be the best course of action for most blacks, and the family structure has been breaking down for everyone.

Coincidentally the spike in black crime seemes to have begun during the mid 80s. I wonder if there were any external forces that might have contributed towards such a spike? *cough"CIA*cough*

That's not to excuse blacks though, genetics and culture(mostly culture(though I suppose that depends on where the balcks in question are())), but its absurd to pretend as though after the civil rights era blacks just had everything set up for them to be successful and that it was just squandered.

Still BLM, if it was truly cared about blacks they would be trying to fix the "communities" problems rather than attacking whites who refuse to take the proverbial big black cock up the ass. I mean really, which is more of a danger to blacks, increasing gang violence or alt right edgelords.

As far as the relation to cops and black people is concerned two things stick out in my mind.:
1) Blacks commit more crimes

yet

2) Crime rates by blacks on a state by state level have little/no affect on police violence towards blacks.

Either way BLM is just a product of the new "liberal" SJW movement in all its wet bottomed. Its honestly a small thing. I think the much bigger threat and what will eventually be the focus on the battle between new liberals and conservatives will be Islam. The authoritarian SJWs will give credence to the authoritarian neocons and thats when shit will really hit the fan, and it will all probably revolve around Islam.

Ah, well I'm just enjoying the show

it really is some funny shit.

 

[QuickTwist]

I think it says its adjusted for inflation at the bottom.


BlLM is a stupid movement that seeks to change the world around the black community instead of fixing internal problems within it. It's detrimental and racist to it's own community insinuating that blacks need extra help and whites are obligated to give it to them. It's been nothing but divisive. It's created two groups of people who are one dimensional in the formation of their opinions and the gathering of their knowledge.

Saying that blacks were better off in the 60's because they had less crime and a tighter family unit is ridiculous. Of course there was less crime just being black was so much of an offence back then that staying under the radar seemed to be the best course of action for most blacks, and the family structure has been breaking down for everyone.

Coincidentally the spike in black crime seemes to have begun during the mid 80s. I wonder if there were any external forces that might have contributed towards such a spike? *cough"CIA*cough*

That's not to excuse blacks though, genetics and culture(mostly culture(though I suppose that depends on where the balcks in question are())), but its absurd to pretend as though after the civil rights era blacks just had everything set up for them to be successful and that it was just squandered.

Still BLM, if it was truly cared about blacks they would be trying to fix the "communities" problems rather than attacking whites who refuse to take the proverbial big black cock up the ass. I mean really, which is more of a danger to blacks, increasing gang violence or alt right edgelords.

As far as the relation to cops and black people is concerned two things stick out in my mind.:
1) Blacks commit more crimes

yet

2) Crime rates by blacks on a state by state level have little/no affect on police violence towards blacks.

Either way BLM is just a product of the new "liberal" SJW movement in all its wet bottomed. Its honestly a small thing. I think the much bigger threat and what will eventually be the focus on the battle between new liberals and conservatives will be Islam. The authoritarian SJWs will give credence to the authoritarian neocons and thats when shit will really hit the fan, and it will all probably revolve around Islam.

Ah, well I'm just enjoying the show

it really is some funny shit.

I think you miss the whole point of BLM. The point of BLM is the Blacks saying "stop fucking shooting us!" and the cops being like "No!"

 

[TBerg]

The growth of the "Prison Industrial Complex" coincides with the decrease of violent crime. It seems like law and order worked after all:

 

[Minute Squirrel]

The growth of the "Prison Industrial Complex" coincides with the decrease of violent crime. It seems like law and order worked after all:

Well sheit.....that graph also shows an even more direct correlation between the decline in violent crime and the rise in fame and death of Tupac Shakur.

Tupac's rise to fame saw the decile of violent crime and he faked his death and moved to that communist hellhole Cuba to make sure that the crime rate continued to decrease in his holy name.

PRAISE TUPAC!

"That's why I fucked yo bitch you fat motherfucka" - Tupac Shakur

 

[TBerg]

You don't think prosecuting criminals reduces crime?

Why prosecute anyone?

 

[Minute Squirrel]

You don't think prosecuting criminals reduces crime?

Why prosecute anyone?

Are you replying to me?

I don't remember saying that prosecuting criminals doesn't reduce crime. But criminal is a subjective term which depends on your location and the time period in which you are living.

I would say prosecuting PEOPLE doesn't reduce crime. At least not by itself. I'm certain you agree that people shouldn't get extra time for hate crime than regular crime. I'm also fairly certain that you would agree some people have also been accused of hate crime and put in prison when really they may have just been defending themselves.

Not only that but what is the purpose of jail if not to rehabilitate people?

Why not just use prisoners as straight up slaves?

Why send them to prison to become professional criminals?

Why not just chop the heads off of people who have life sentences?

Why not have public executions for peoples enjoyment? We could even make them pay to see them. It's not like humans have really grown out of wanting to see some people suffer. Some people's grandparents were alive around the times people were being strung up for entertainment in America.

Either way I don't have a definitive stance on the prison system other than that some people are too content with its flaws while others go to far in the other direction and want us to have the hippie-dippie criminal justice system of Sweden.

I was mostly just teasing you because that graph doesn't really show how the increased prison population affected the violent crime rate. Also I don't see how having the amount of people in prison constantly growing is necessarily "law and order" prevailing.

So, you don't find it a little ridiculous that decades after violent crimes decrease the number of people in prison keeps growing and growing. If there aren't as many violent criminals why are so many people in jail? Why are we placing non violent criminals in the same place violent criminals are becoming even more violent........its just a huge cluster fuck man

 

[TBerg]

If, as you imply, Minute Squirrel, incarceration enhances the amount of total crime, then how come we have such high incarceration and generally declining crime rates?

 

[Minute Squirrel]

If, as you imply, Minute Squirrel, incarceration enhances the amount of total crime, then how come we have such high incarceration and generally declining crime rates?

I implied that? Where?

Are you referring to when I said

Also I don't see how having the amount of people in prison constantly growing is necessarily "law and order" prevailing.

So, you don't find it a little ridiculous that decades after violent crimes decrease the number of people in prison keeps growing and growing.

I was implying that less crimes should mean less people in prison. I understand that since a lot of people are sentenced to long terms obviously it would grow a little. Yet its such a big spike without evening off even after the violent crime rate lowered. But I admit I was hasty claiming that a drop in crime should mean a sudden drop in the prison population.

I mostly have a problem with you implying that "The growth of the "Prison Industrial Complex" coincides with the decrease of violent crime." actually means anything on its own. There are a lot of things that could've played a part. Such as the change in culture or the decrease of lead. I'm not saying that prison played no part but I don't see how you come to the conclusion prison was a big player. Especially when something like lead exposure has a better correlation.

 

[TBerg]

Why is there a twenty-three year difference between the lead graph and the crime graph?

Were they all twenty-three-years-old when they committed the crimes? Or did the exposure always take twenty-three years to take effect?

 

[Minute Squirrel]

I believe that the effects of lead exposure from childhood usually begin to appear in a persons early 20's. Why it's 23 years specifically I don't know. But I'm sure you can figure it out.

 

[TBerg]

Don't you find that exacting contrivance pretty incredible?

 

[Minute Squirrel]

Not particularly. But then again I wouldn't call it an "exacting contrivance". Even if you give or take a few years the correlation is still strong. But I admit I'm no expert neither am I particularly knowledgeable on the subject, so I could be wrong.

 

[TBerg]

Someone had to put those two timelines together. They don't occur naturally in a state of asynchrony. Their asynchrony requires explanation

 

[Minute Squirrel]

I gave you the explanation. If it didn't suffice just say so. We're starting to go in circles.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I believe the American cops have the right to shoot anyone of any race equally. BLM should be ashamed of themselves. What about the whites and Hispanics that could have been shot but weren't because of the color of their skin? That's real racism.

 

[Minute Squirrel]

I believe the American cops have the right to shoot anyone of any race equally. BLM should be ashamed of themselves. What about the whites and Hispanics that could have been shot but weren't because of the color of their skin? That's real racism.

If whites want to get shot more they should just commit more crimes and be more aggressive. It's not blacks fault whites are non aggressive, law abiding cucks.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Maybe if the blacks stopped being selfish hating black on black crimz, us whites would stand a chance.

Why can't this issue be black and white? Martin Luther King is rolling in his grave at this injustice.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

yay tupac!

 

[bvanevery]

Anyways correlation is not causality. I'm aware of the environmental lead exposure theories about various poor people, especially blacks, being made stupid by it. "Crime is down" is not a subject I've studied up much. What I have started to study, are pockets of HIGH crime like Chicago and Milwaukee. I think when we're fed a line about "the average is down," we're missing an important part of the picture of what's going on. Things can be generally better in a lot of places, and much much worse in a smaller number of places.