This whole Will Smith slap controversy is so dumb

[onesteptwostep]

I feel like the entire internet is trying to dissect this from every angle possible, and it's crazy. The only losers in this seem to be the people who have to put up with all this chirruping about who's in the wrong more and how this informs this and damages that.. And so on. /vent

 

[Black Rose]

what happend?

 

[Cognisant]

I think the whole thing was staged, Comedians know the difference between being generally offensive and offending someone in particular, and Will Smith isn't some young idiot that doesn't know how to conduct himself in public.

 

[Rook]

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was staged. I think this is a net positive though, assuming we can as a culture learn from this experience. Not positive that it happened, but I mean as an experience to learn from. Assuming we don't learn the 'wrong' things.

Granted yeah, it's pretty hard to take anything useful to this if you're projecting a narrative that validates your world views and don't have many of the details. I don't mean this in a defamatory way at all to anyone who's done this here. The media at large really is running away with this story. No idea what is going on with that, it's just exposing how confident everyone is in their world views to justify violence or imply that Will of all people is an 'abuser'

So here is my Jungian take. For me the lore is:

Jada confessed to cheating on Will Smith- last year? on live television. Citing insecurity with her womanhood. I'm not sure when her hair condition began to onset, so that may be related, but yeah she lost all her hair but I don't think she brought it up. When pressed on how she could do this if she loved Will, she said something like "If he really loved me he would've known". Lmao.

Will cries on television, becomes a staple meme. Now much like Jada had her "womanhood" taken from her in her private life, Will had his "manhood" taken from him right at the center of the public eye.

So it's very possible that Rock touched on the very nerve that Will would associate her infidelity and saw this as the opportunity to make up for that deficiency. Perhaps from his perspective, he (Rock) was indeed directly attacking him (Smith).

I personally can't relate to Will Smith, as I have never been memed on such a global scale, and in fact have never been a target of such a brutal attack. So yeah.

We don't all have to lose “¯\_(ツ)_/¯“ I think that lore is interesting, even if it might as well be as real as WWE. This is the first time celebrity's relationships are interesting to me.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Well first of all its clearly made up and fake.
But if it were not I still give credit to the guy standing there and taking a punch and slap and being professional about it.
Then again hollywood has a long history of comedians making fun of celebrities.
Comedy is difficult in terms of crossing the line and not getting punched in the face.
Many comedians run the risk here.

As for Will Smith I mean his reaction is not out of the norm socially or emotionally.
His personal reasons or whatever, I get why he is angry I guess.
I mean the math is pretty simple. You insulted someone he cares about, and he has strong feelings about it.

Who would not.
Then again many celebrities deal with this shit all the time, and they just laugh it off, like previous years.
Which is kind of the risk of doing such comedy. You always run risk on stepping on someone's nerve.

The problem with these things is they are highly idiosyncratic and depend on settings.
There are simply societies that punish people much harshly for lot less.
There are societies were certain insults are rated depending on social standing and status etc.
There are societies were its all about what particular meaning of insult is behind the statement.

I guess the comedian is really running a risk, because aside not knowing the background of people the assumption is he will take the piss out of people, and they will laugh at it, because its considered fun.

The general rule of thumb is that fun would be more appropriate if its not made to address some weakness they cannot help having.

Ergo making fun of people not having legs or not having hair etc.

Ricky Gervais had pretty strong jokes on this too, but usually he was more about pointing out social issues, or perceptions, he did devalue lot of hollywood work though and did say pretty controversial things so.....

 

[dr froyd]

yep, when I saw this the first time I thought: this is gonna be one of those things that everyone has to talk about and I don't give 2 fucks about

this event changes nothing and hollywood remains a bunch of spineless maggots that no one should spend time thinking about

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Some scientologists gathered at a fake sponsored film award ceremony and postured and ego-boosted each other.

He is a scientologist. This means that he is a crazy, dangerous person. Any active cultist of any belief or ideology is crazy and dangerous. It wouldn't be surprising if he tried to kill someone on stage.

We should maybe ask why people watch the dumbest award ceremony that is sponsored by the film industry and care about the rewards that are meaningless and decided ahead of time without any contest.

Or why people waste their breath to even discuss this topic like it is something that matters to them personally.

 

[Puffy]

It isn’t a big deal really. Someone made a joke about his wife, he took offence and acted out. You see worse in certain bars and pubs every week. Moving on.

 

[Hadoblado]

I enjoy these sorts of events because I like it when people who normally agree find something they disagree on. People's explanations for why they think one way or the other tends to be more telling of their values in these instances.

Whether a comedian should be free to tell abrasive jokes, whether they should be free from the consequences of those jokes, whether it's okay to be the find out for someone else's fuck around... This stuff suggests a lot about the perspective holder.

 

[Daddy]

Will Smith look like a bitch

 

[Daddy]

Some scientologists gathered at a fake sponsored film award ceremony and postured and ego-boosted each other.

He is a scientologist. This means that he is a crazy, dangerous person. Any active cultist of any belief or ideology is crazy and dangerous. It wouldn't be surprising if he tried to kill someone on stage.

We should maybe ask why people watch the dumbest award ceremony that is sponsored by the film industry and care about the rewards that are meaningless and decided ahead of time without any contest.

Or why people waste their breath to even discuss this topic like it is something that matters to them personally.

Because it's public. It's just what people see. It's why film is often used as propaganda and why actors think they are influencers and politicians, because it's what everyone sees and that's what they can all compare to. I guess if all our lives were public, we could talk about them instead, but most people are private and this is easy to talk about.

 

[dr froyd]

it was a shitty and ufunny joke, met by a idiotic lunatic response.

some people have brought up ricky gervais at golden globes as comparison. That's a bad comparison – ricky gervais actually tells funny jokes, aimed at the privileged. This was an unfunny joke aimed at the unprivileged (in terms of health).

 

[onesteptwostep]

I see Ricky Gervais in the same vein though. He's just the toxicity bottled up in one singular person. The Will Smith thing is the derivatives that flowed from the act.

The mature thing would be to have self-awareness but to have a light hearted humanity of it. There's plenty of wrong in the world- no need to manifest more vitriol. That isn't the point of entertainment.

 

[dr froyd]

I see Ricky Gervais in the same vein though. He's just the toxicity bottled up in one singular person. The Will Smith thing is the derivatives that flowed from the act.

The mature thing would be to have self-awareness but to have a light hearted humanity of it. There's plenty of wrong in the world- no need to manifest more vitriol. That isn't the point of entertainment.

pffft... "toxicity"

please never have opinions on humor ever again. You probably watch TV shows like "friends" and "big bang theory" and consider it humor

 

[ZenRaiden]

I generally noticed with age the type of jokes comedians do differ.

For example those who know George Carlin, he went from a kind of wondering mind to very preachy mind.

His first routines were about time or things and putting things in place, and ended up with pretty dark or very serious themes like religion hypocrisy, politics, suicide, family problems, and generally mature themes. War, as assholes in general or education system.

I mean I like all his stand ups, but if I want a genuinely good laugh and clean fun I certainly would not watch his later work, because its pretty raw in moments and feels like a rant rather than actual fun.

One common trait of Georg Carlin was it was always witty and irreverent and well thought out and worded and delivered.

Ricky Gervais has also better material than Golden Globes.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I see Ricky Gervais in the same vein though. He's just the toxicity bottled up in one singular person. The Will Smith thing is the derivatives that flowed from the act.

The mature thing would be to have self-awareness but to have a light hearted humanity of it. There's plenty of wrong in the world- no need to manifest more vitriol. That isn't the point of entertainment.

pffft... "toxicity"

please never have opinions on humor ever again. You probably watch TV shows like "friends" and "big bang theory" and consider it humor

I hadn't owned a tv since middle school.

 

[Hadoblado]

Ricky's is material involving transgenderism cannot be classed as punching up. I'm a pretty big fan regardless - but comedians are romanticised. He's great at speaking truth to power and he's genuinely insightful and funny, but that doesn't mean he's always punching up.

 

[ZenRaiden]

it was a shitty and ufunny joke,

It was a friendly jab I think, but completely pointless and unfunny yes, in this setting.
If they were playing paintball and she showed up in her gear with that hair it would be probably well received and funny.
She does not look anything like GI Jane in the dress she has.
Probably another 20 females there has the same haircut anyway.

 

[dr froyd]

I rewatched some of the ricky gervais clips from golden globes. In some of the earlier ones one can actually see movie stars sitting next to Harvey Weinstein, lauging and having a grand ol' time. I bet the same people gave heart-felt speeches about women's rights the very next year. If one wants to talk about toxicity, talk about the cesspool of hypocrite scumbags which is the hollywood movie industry.

 

[Puffy]

x

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Violence when it's inflicted on someone because their ego is hurt is just not a good thing to support in any case ever. If you disagree we have to conject and draw boundaries around when that is okay, which is fine, but this oddly enough politicizes what I am allowed to do based on other people's perceptions.

Just let no one do it. Problem solved.

I once witnessed someone get jumped because they had sex with the jumpees partner. "WE HAD A GOOD RELATIONSHIP YOU FUCKED IT UP!#IO!#". Fucking lunatic. The source of his sense of betrayal had little to do with the person he assaulted and everything to do with who he placed his faith in.

This by comparison, is just that much more humiliating for Will. He smacked a dude who made a passing comment on his woman's lack of hair. And if I psychoanalyze the outcome, his actions point to him wanting her to be targeted. Because that's what this situation is generating. If that was not the conscious choice, he is not redeemable in my eyes.

 

[Hadoblado]

@dr froyd
I don't know whether the people sitting next to Weinstein gave speeches about feminism, but if you haven't actually checked you're sort of gesturing at imagined hypocrisy. You've cascaded anyone being friendly with weinstein into evidence for hollywood toxicity.

Not that I disagree with your conclusion, it just doesn't follow unless you can point to an example.

@EndogenousRebel
In a similar vein, I'm not sure you get to assume it's an ego thing. There's a difference between defending one's ego and defending one's family.

Likewise, people getting aggressive against someone that facilitated their cheating spouse... That's not necessarily ego. You're defending your relationship and perhaps even your family unit. I agree that the anger is disproportionately attributed externally, but that's functional (because a lot of people in this instance would not want to destabilise their relationship further).

I don't think your psychoanalysis makes much sense. You sort of start in a random place and then arrive at a conclusion but there's no stated logical progression I can see.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

@EndogenousRebel
In a similar vein, I'm not sure you get to assume it's an ego thing. There's a difference between defending one's ego and defending one's family.

Likewise, people getting aggressive against someone that facilitated their cheating spouse... That's not necessarily ego. You're defending your relationship and perhaps even your family unit. I agree that the anger is disproportionately attributed externally, but that's functional (because a lot of people in this instance would not want to destabilise their relationship further).

I don't think your psychoanalysis makes much sense. You sort of start in a random place and then arrive at a conclusion but there's no stated logical progression I can see.

If he isn't resentful towards her at all, and he really was "defending" his wife, then he did a pretty shit job at doing it. You'd think that with these sort of events, which are formulaic, you'd know that you would have the chance to rebut at or after the event.

If Will Smith is resentful towards Jada for her actions, unconsciously or consciously, then doing something like this makes sense.

It makes more sense than saying he is resentful towards Jada and didn't do this to get back at her in some way.

There is no way someone who was thinking clearly (someone whose ego was not in the way) would think that marching on stage and assaulting someone would think that this would make his wife's situation better.

Then again, when someone is in a cult, you can excuse a lot of things, but that's my psychoanalysis, it makes a lot of sense to me, you don't really give an alternative narrative to the situation. Just mention family dynamics as if this family hasn't weathered worse situations.

 

[Hadoblado]

Your ego not being in the way is necessary but not sufficient for thinking clearly.

We agree that Will Smith was probably not thinking clearly. I'd feel pretty comfortable asserting that anyone who's assaulting people probably isn't thinking clearly. I also think he did a pretty shit job whatever his intention was.

It's not that what you're saying is impossible, it's just far from the only explanation. If Will wants to take things out on his wife there are so many other ways he could do it that don't compromise his celebrity standing.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Your ego not being in the way is necessary but not sufficient for thinking clearly.

You think he wasn't taking his multi-vitamins? From my observations, confidence has a direct relationship with ones willingness to engage in violence. Too much or too little means you're liable to do be violent. This is a meaningless characterization, but I guess it would be up to you to tell me why my interpretation of a internet soap opera is wrong.

It's possible that the dramatization of society including itself in his life may have done something to his rationality. Buuuuuuuut, dramatization doesn't equal making poor decisions to me. Seeing a whole bunch of exposes of Smiths conceptions on what a "man" is supposed to be is now easily framable as someone who has traditional values about what his role is supposed to be.

I do think my analysis is shallow, but so are these values, so I'm not inclined to really dig deeper than that. He doesn't seem capable of reframing his mental state in a light that is acceptalbe or honest. "I want to be a symbol of love and not hate" or some bullshit, gimmie a break. Talk about reaction formation.

 

[Hadoblado]

I'm not saying it's wrong I'm saying it doesn't follow.

But whatever. I think this basically comes down to you believing in a Freudian psychoanalytic framework and having some confidence in your ability to use it. I share neither your belief nor your confidence, but I've had that conversation here before and I'm not keen to retread it.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Fair enough, you can have an opinion. It sounds like you have sympathy for him. I'm not interested in hashing out the relationship you had with your parents atm either.

But judging on what I see Will Smith talk about anytime I see any clip of him it's always about (his) image in some way. Specifically how he envied someone like Tupac, and the apparent masculinity characters like him had.

These psychological concepts are real as people think they are. You can fit anything into Freud's Id and super ego or Jung's archetypes and shadow. It lines up to me in many frameworks.

Plenty of people have wives and husbands in that audience who are getting made fun of but Will is the only one that's standing up to assault someone. Safe to say there is something more going on under the hood.

I have witnessed many fights where the inciting incident was something legitimately degrading via verbal abuse and physical attack and the other person on the receiving end man or woman do not do what Chris Rock did. It didn't matter what the occasion was.

 

[Hadoblado]

Nah no sympathy. I don't follow or care about these people at all.

"These psychological concepts are real as people think they are. You can fit anything into Freud's Id and super ego or Jung's archetypes and shadow. It lines up to me in many frameworks."

This is exactly the problem. I could not have said it better myself.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Chris Rock knows he fucked up too though. Maybe he's done lesser, but on paper he's the one who initiated the scruffle. Not all jokes are without consequence. Now he has to live with the association of Smith slapping him forever. Not sure if the joke was worth that. He can't articulate this for sure, but it's apparent.

Also finding out Will Smith was a Scientologist made so much sense to me. There seemed like there was something off about him in the interviews he gave.. He'll probably lay low for a few years and then come back to acting. The public has a memory of a goldfish afterall.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Mental gymnastics aside I think there is more people who would respond this way.
Humans, especially extrovert don't always think twice about doing something. Society in general has bias towards self Defense. Mostly because self Defense is usually necessary where as aggression tends to be most of the time pointless.

 

[Rook]

i wonder what people in ukraine think about an actor giving a comedian a single knuckle punch and then walking away.

 

[birdsnestfern]

I thought the verbal abuse was far more damaging than the physical slap/punch and it will be damaging to them both for a long long time. In the heat of passion people will lose their heads and of course Will Smith had a right to be angry. It would be natural to want to punch someone for hurting you publically. People shouldn't be allowed to verbally abuse others especially in public. Neither of them were right in what they did, and both need to be kicked out permanently, but Chris Rock and others with a sharp tongue can't expect to be that rude and not have a consequence. Don't capitalize on someone else's weakness, its an attack on so many levels, not a good tactic. Not only did it damage the reputations of those involved, but also makes a big joke of the entire award ceremony. The damages were astronomical to everyone including the general public. Completely ugly incident. The punch was the least offensive act here. It went into everyones lives like a ripple and the whole world.

 

[dr froyd]

@dr froyd
I don't know whether the people sitting next to Weinstein gave speeches about feminism, but if you haven't actually checked you're sort of gesturing at imagined hypocrisy. You've cascaded anyone being friendly with weinstein into evidence for hollywood toxicity.

Not that I disagree with your conclusion, it just doesn't follow unless you can point to an example.

if i have to prove to you that hollywood is only interested in making money and build careers, and is actually without any morals despite always mascarading as being the pinnacle of moral virtue, then you have a very strange worldview

 

[dr froyd]

hold on guys, i have to listen to what Sean Penn has to say about the war in ukraine. It is CRITICAL that we get Sean Penn on the case right now. It is our only chance to find a solution to this massive geopolitical conundrum

 

[Puffy]

i wonder what people in ukraine think about an actor giving a comedian a single knuckle punch and then walking away.

That wasn’t a punch man, that was a solid pimp slap.

 

[Hadoblado]

if i have to prove to you that hollywood is only interested in making money and build careers, and is actually without any morals despite always mascarading as being the pinnacle of moral virtue, then you have a very strange worldview

I don't disagree with your conclusion regarding Hollywood, only with how you filled in the blanks. You did this earlier with onesteptwostep as well.

Celebrities are hypocritical.
Celebrities are hypocritical because they probably laughed with Weinstein then made a speech about the kind of abuse that Weinstein enacted as if they hadn't condoned it.
They probably did this because celebrities are hypocritical.

Ricky Gervais isn't toxic.
Onesteptwostep says Ricky Gervais is toxic.
Onesteptwostep's opinion is wrong because Onesteptwostep has no sense of humour.
Onesteptwostep has no sense of humour because Onesteptwostep watches the wrong kind of TV.

Onesteptwostep says he doesn't watch tv.
...
...
...


You also did it with me, assuming that I have a particular perspective on Hollywood (that I don't) because someone disagreeing with you must be because they hold stupid world views like that Hollywood is some sort of bastion of purity.

 

[dr froyd]

@Hadoblado as far as I know most people don't watch tv-series on an actual tv, but use streaming services? I kinda felt I won the argument against onesteptwostep

 

[Hadoblado]

Fair point. I also haven't owned a tv in over a decade but I still watch plenty of shows.

@onesteptwostep do you watch shows without owning a tv? Do you watch friends or bigbang theory?

My guess would be that they watch shows but probably not those specific ones (not that I think that would be disqualifying).

If onestep doesn't watch these shows will you still feel that you won?

 

[onesteptwostep]

Geez Haldo way to put me on the spot :P

I don't watch shows unless it's trending at the moment and I don't want to miss out. I think I marathon shows more rather than just casually watch them.

Either way I don't use any streaming services at all. I torrent things when I want to watch something. I'm digitally frugal.

And no I've never watched Friends or "Big Bang Theory". Just maybe a few episodes here and there just to chill out maybe, but that's literally 15~ years ago. The only shows I've kept up with now are Rick and Morty and some of the Marvel series. Haven't really enjoyed those though.

Also he seems to be on edge because he thinks Ricky is funny or something. Bashing on the establishment isn't exactly hard to do. Comedy is much more than that. Situational comedy, like retelling experiences in a particular way, comparing it to another particular experience which we can all agree, that's skillful comedy.

I've enjoyed Tomlinson Taylor lately, she's really starting to get the spotlight after all these years.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I thought the verbal abuse was far more damaging than the physical slap/punch and it will be damaging to them both for a long long time. In the heat of passion people will lose their heads and of course Will Smith had a right to be angry. It would be natural to want to punch someone for hurting you publically. People shouldn't be allowed to verbally abuse others especially in public. Neither of them were right in what they did, and both need to be kicked out permanently, but Chris Rock and others with a sharp tongue can't expect to be that rude and not have a consequence. Don't capitalize on someone else's weakness, its an attack on so many levels, not a good tactic. Not only did it damage the reputations of those involved, but also makes a big joke of the entire award ceremony. The damages were astronomical to everyone including the general public. Completely ugly incident. The punch was the least offensive act here. It went into everyones lives like a ripple and the whole world.

Pretty much sums it up I think.

 

[Hadoblado]

Sorry onestep, it's just the only measure of accountability for statements I could get.

@dr froyd
You walked away considering this a win, but (unless onestep is lying for whatever reason, which I don't believe) you walked away having mischaracterised your "opponent" in order to dismiss them.

 

[Rook]

i wonder what people in ukraine think about an actor giving a comedian a single knuckle punch and then walking away.

That wasn’t a punch man, that was a solid pimp slap.

tru -.-

 

[ZenRaiden]

Which actor would win Mortal kombat thought of All the ones that are alive?

 

[Rook]

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

nothing to do with generating publicity about alopecia or the new drug that pfizer (sponsor of the oscars) has been trialing to supposedly treat alopecia (a side effect of pfizer's covaids "vaccine")

 

[washti]

PMB - don't believe everything you think.

 

[Hadoblado]

nothing to do with generating publicity about alopecia or the new drug that pfizer (sponsor of the oscars) has been trialing to supposedly treat alopecia (a side effect of pfizer's covaids "vaccine")

Nobody's made the case yet, it doesn't mean you can't make it.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I cannot see it, especially since I have this guy associated with Donny from Big Lebowski, where he gets a heart attack in middle of parking lot in middle of a fight.
But yeah the dude might kick some ass in real life who knows.

I was thinking maybe Van Dam or Chuck Norris.

Though they are pretty old dudes.

Some say Tom Cruise has good physical strength and does some of the more dangerous stunts.

Then Jacky Chan comes to mind lol.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Ricky Gervais commented on it saying that alopecia isn't a disability.

I forgot to take on that perspective. It really isn't anything besides the disability to grow hair. That I know of. I myself get uncomfortable when my family discusses my diagnoses, because they don't really understand or interrogate how I feel about it pretty much ever. Then again my family isn't normal.

I can imagine someone standing up for their wheelchair bound wife unprompted would be seen as worse and or just as justifiable. Zeitgeist seems to be sane having a well tempered response for once. I'm tempted to look at randomized polls but what the fuck am I doing with my life if I do that?