This Site is SO WEIRD!

[Old Things]

You have people like @Kuu making 1,000 IQ posts and then you have people telling me I can't ask questions or cite sources.

SO WEIRD!

Let's try this and see where it goes.

It's not a war crime to ask a person some leading questions to see where their logic ends up in a debate. It's people who are either insecure or are representing a bad conclusion who don't like it when people ask questions. It seems insane to me to think that asking questions is somehow a power struggle dynamic or some shit. Truly mind-numbing stuff. Did your teachers in high school never ask the class any questions? Holy crap!

Don't even get me started on how insane it is that it is somehow morally reprehensible to cite a source. God forbid someone appeals to something besides their own authority on anything.

 

[Cognisant]

Yeah I stopped following that debate.

Imo all that matters is that Kamala is, if not an actual card carrying Communist, at least someone dumb enough to have the ideological basis of one.

And that matters because it means she's not going to do anything to secure the USA's borders or reduce spending.

And that matters to me, as an Australian, because if the US economy goes into an inflationary death spiral ours is going down with it.

 

[Black Rose]

You are allowed to do those things but no one has to listen.

If you do not believe politics and religion are about a power struggle,

Then maybe you should reconsider what those are?

Even within those forums, I try to be civil but it is hard.

 

[Old Things]

You are allowed to do those things but no one has to listen.

If you do not believe politics and religion are about a power struggle,

Then maybe you should reconsider what those are?

Even within those forums, I try to be civil but it is hard.

I'm honestly curious if you think people should be persuaded of anything at all.

You act like in any case where someone is trying to persuade anyone of anything it is this evil power struggle of dominance.

I remember when people still thought the best argument was the most likely to be true, not that if you are trying to change someone's mind you are an oppressor.

Your comment about politics and religion being about power shows that you just want to feel like a victim which gives you power. The US government was set up to balance the power into three branches of government. Our founding fathers were hella smart to do things this way. But no. That is evil because all politics is about power. I think having representatives who represent the people is a good idea. And I think it is a good idea to vote for these representatives. Do a lot of people go into politics because they want power? Yes, which is exactly why we have the government system we do today. You seriously give me a headache that I have to explain things to you like I am a middle school teacher.

If you think religion is all about power, you are stupid. That would require anyone who has any authority in any religion to not actually believe in the religion but is only doing it to control people. It's so backwards because most of the time (there are exceptions) the people who are priests or whatever are in that position because they believe in the religion more than the people they are caring for. It gets complicated because sometimes things get to be about how charming or whatever the priest is instead of being about how much they love God, but most of the pastors in the US at least work very hard and get almost no appreciation for what they do. Being a pastor is a hard stressful job and you show your ignorance about this topic when you say it is all about power.

 

[Black Rose]

Well if you show no respect why should others respect you?

Thanks for dumbing it down for me like the middle school dummy I am.

Yes, we balance government powers so one group does not dominate.

Yes, people believe in religion but then people disagree.

So as long as people like you show some respect people like me can cooperate in some way regarding government. But in religion, I will no longer talk to you about that subject.

 

[dr froyd]

 

[Old Things]

Well if you show no respect why should others respect you?

I have shown you lots and lots of respect. But when you say things that are as extreme as they are illogical, it's difficult not to point that out.

But in religion, I will no longer talk to you about that subject.

Of course, because heaven forbid you change your mind.

 

[Black Rose]

Well if you show no respect why should others respect you?

I have shown you lots and lots of respect. But when you say things that are as extreme as they are illogical, it's difficult not to point that out.

So I am illogical(?)

But in religion, I will no longer talk to you about that subject.

Of course, because heaven forbid you change your mind.

God would not approve of what you said here.

You cannot change minds without understanding the other person.

And you don't understand me.

My ability to handle criticism goes way further than you give credit.

But in the end, I've seen too many debates about religion.

Those debates become about winning not mutual respect.

 

[Old Things]

So I am illogical(?)

Bro, you are really illogical sometimes. No one is perfectly logical all the time, but some of the positions you take are not thought through at all.

Can you name a time when someone persuaded you of something? I've tried to give you good solid advice plenty of times when you make threads about how terrible things are for you and it's like I am talking to a brick wall.

You cannot change minds without understanding the other person.

I don't know where this comes from, but it is false. People should change their minds when evidence to the contrary is presented to them. You do not need to know a thing about the person to do this.

Imagine this...

A person says they never wear their seatbelt because they feel it is constraining. So then this person decides to go with you somewhere and you are driving. You tell them they need to wear a seat belt. They tell you that seat belts are restraining so they don't want to wear one. So then you talk to them about how wearing a seatbelt can save their life followed by stats saying that people who wear their seatbelts are more likely to survive in an accident. They then say, "It's my choice, I should be able to do whatever I want." At this point, you have to tell them it is the law and you are not going anywhere unless they wear their seatbelt because the driver is responsible for all people wearing their seatbelt in the car. They then reluctantly put their seat belt on. In this situation, you did not need to know a single thing about them in order to change their behavior. You just had to tell them the facts. That was enough to change their mind. Why? Because in the face of logic, the person knows they have no argument against not wearing their seatbelt. It was logic that changed the person's mind. Not how well or poorly they knew their interlocutor.

 

[Puffy]

View attachment 8171

 

[Black Rose]

You are defensive, The reason you are like this is because we talked about freewill, If I talk to you about freewill again you will get even more damaged, so I will not talk to you about religion as of freewill.

 

[Old Things]

You are defensive, The reason you are like this is because we talked about freewill, If I talk to you about freewill again you will get even more damaged, so I will not talk to you about religion as of freewill.

I am sorry you think I am defensive. I am not. I am using logic and reasoning to demonstrate my point. I am sorry that offends you.

 

[Black Rose]

I am sorry I damaged you talking about freewill.

What I learned is that you cannot understand my reasons or my logic.

That is why I refuse.

 

[Old Things]

I am sorry I damaged you talking about freewill.

I am not threatened by you in the least bit. I think you are incompetent on many issues.

What I learned is that you cannot understand my reasons or my logic.

If your reasoning and logic don't make sense, that is going to happen. If you can't answer a question that is asked to you without going on a wild goose chase of some completely unrelated stuff, people are going to think you don't have good arguments.

I honestly view you like this when I ask you questions. It has nothing to do with you besting me.

That is why I refuse.

I think you refuse because you know if you debate me you are going to lose.

 

[Black Rose]

no, freewill is just a subject I do not believe you will understand my views.

If you did not understand after all the time I spent trying to explain last time,

then there is no reason to continue.

I am blocking this thread.

 

[Old Things]

no, freewill is just a subject I do not believe you will understand my views.

If you did not understand after all the time I spent trying to explain last time,

then there is no reason to continue.

I am blocking this thread.

Excuse me, but what the hell does free will have to do with anything here?

 

[Black Rose]

religion

 

[Old Things]

View attachment 8171

What happens when you have a person who is incapable of sticking to the point debate a person who sticks to the point as a fault?

 

[Old Things]

religion

Which you already said you would not talk to me about...

I seriously do not understand you. That much is true. You make no sense.

 

[Black Rose]

I told you my views on God and freewill.

So I will not talk about it.

 

[Old Things]

I told you my views on God and freewill.

So I will not talk about it.

 

[Black Rose]

I told you my views on God and freewill.

So I will not talk about it.

View attachment 8172

exactly, you became more damaged

sorry

 

[Cognisant]

 

[Old Things]

I told you my views on God and freewill.

So I will not talk about it.

View attachment 8172

exactly, you became more damaged

sorry

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Politics is a spectator sport for 99% of people.

There's so much unwarranted self-confidence surrounding the subject and people think that articles and otherwise tertiary info sources are convincing.

Even if you spend years compiling a bibliography, that *will only be convincing (useful) to people that actually think critically. Very low number of people.

 

[Old Things]

Politics is a spectator sport for 99% of people.

There's so much unwarranted self-confidence surrounding the subject and people think that articles and otherwise tertiary info sources are convincing.

Even if you spend years compiling a bibliography, that only convincing (useful) to people that actually think critically. Very low number of people.

I agree there is too much self-confidence. Both the left and the right are warring against each other for power. They only get that power with our vote (or if they cheat).

This is why I don't support Trump or Harris. They both suck.

 

[Puffy]

@Old Things Black Rose has clarified that he has different kinds of neurodiversity and neurological conditions that affect how he processes information. They're just conditions he has.

I don't like reading people calling him incompetent, by all means disagree with him but I don't think there's a need for that. Regardless of how you intend that, maybe it's how you speak in general, I can only imagine that people experience stigmatisation on account of these conditions and might receive it that you were calling them stupid on account of it.

I've seen Black Rose on this forum for many, many years and I can say that I think he's made leaps and bounds in his abilities to communicate in the time I've seen him here. That speaks to his determination and I can only imagine there's a lot of hardships he's had to go with that. I hope you can agree with me that I do think he deserves respect for that.

 

[Old Things]

@Old Things Black Rose has clarified that he has different kinds of neurodiversity and neurological conditions that affect how he processes information. They're just conditions he has.

I don't like reading people calling him incompetent, by all means disagree with him but I don't think there's a need for that. Regardless of how you intend that, maybe it's how you speak in general, I can only imagine that people experience stigmatisation on account of these conditions and might receive it that you were calling them stupid on account of it.

I've seen Black Rose on this forum for many, many years and I can say that I think he's made leaps and bounds in his abilities to communicate in the time I've seen him here. That speaks to his determination and I can only imagine there's a lot of hardships he's had to go with that. I hope you can agree with me that I do think he deserves respect for that.

This might not make sense to you, but I am really trying not to be an outright jerk to Black Rose. I am trying to stick to the facts even if those facts are brutal. I could have gone on a massive tirade name-calling marathon (which is something I wanted to do, honestly), but I didn't. I didn't use hyperbole when describing things even though I wanted to. It is really difficult when people don't stick to the topic and go off on some complete tangent of things and then insinuate I am the bad guy for sticking to the script.

Could I have been more gentle? Yes, but this is very frustrating to me--especially when Black Rose is saying things like all religion is based on power. The problem in some parts of it is that when I do try and be super chill about things it turns around to bite me in the ass.

Also, to act like I am 100% of the problem and Black Rose is the sacrificial lamb is not accurate either. Black Rose frequently tells me what I think in the most negative light that it could be and then tries to argue against that position. It seems like it is bad faith even if he is neurodivergant or whatever. To me, it feels like the kid behind you on the airplane who is kicking the back of your seat. You might put up with it for a while, but eventually, you are going to wonder what is wrong with the parents who you have already told several times that their child is kicking the back of the seat.

 

[Puffy]

@Old Things Black Rose has clarified that he has different kinds of neurodiversity and neurological conditions that affect how he processes information. They're just conditions he has.

I don't like reading people calling him incompetent, by all means disagree with him but I don't think there's a need for that. Regardless of how you intend that, maybe it's how you speak in general, I can only imagine that people experience stigmatisation on account of these conditions and might receive it that you were calling them stupid on account of it.

I've seen Black Rose on this forum for many, many years and I can say that I think he's made leaps and bounds in his abilities to communicate in the time I've seen him here. That speaks to his determination and I can only imagine there's a lot of hardships he's had to go with that. I hope you can agree with me that I do think he deserves respect for that.

This might not make sense to you, but I am really trying not to be an outright jerk to Black Rose. I am trying to stick to the facts even if those facts are brutal. I could have gone on a massive tirade name-calling marathon (which is something I wanted to do, honestly), but I didn't. I didn't use hyperbole when describing things even though I wanted to. It is really difficult when people don't stick to the topic and go off on some complete tangent of things and then insinuate I am the bad guy for sticking to the script.

Could I have been more gentle? Yes, but this is very frustrating to me--especially when Black Rose is saying things like all religion is based on power. The problem in some parts of it is that when I do try and be super chill about things it turns around to bite me in the ass.

Also, to act like I am 100% of the problem and Black Rose is the sacrificial lamb is not accurate either. Black Rose frequently tells me what I think in the most negative light that it could be and then tries to argue against that position. It seems like it is bad faith even if he is neurodivergant or whatever. To me, it feels like the kid behind you on the airplane who is kicking the back of your seat. You might put up with it for a while, but eventually, you are going to wonder what is wrong with the parents who you have already told several times that their child is kicking the back of the seat.

I don't think you're 100% of the problem, I just thought that comment could be received in a way that makes it too personal.

I can't remember when it was, it was around the time you joined, I remember that no matter how heated threads around religion would get you always cooly brushed it off, had a lot of patience and civility, and would take the higher road and rolemodel good behaviours. Those are qualities I know you have that I think are virtuous.

 

[Old Things]

@Old Things Black Rose has clarified that he has different kinds of neurodiversity and neurological conditions that affect how he processes information. They're just conditions he has.

I don't like reading people calling him incompetent, by all means disagree with him but I don't think there's a need for that. Regardless of how you intend that, maybe it's how you speak in general, I can only imagine that people experience stigmatisation on account of these conditions and might receive it that you were calling them stupid on account of it.

I've seen Black Rose on this forum for many, many years and I can say that I think he's made leaps and bounds in his abilities to communicate in the time I've seen him here. That speaks to his determination and I can only imagine there's a lot of hardships he's had to go with that. I hope you can agree with me that I do think he deserves respect for that.

This might not make sense to you, but I am really trying not to be an outright jerk to Black Rose. I am trying to stick to the facts even if those facts are brutal. I could have gone on a massive tirade name-calling marathon (which is something I wanted to do, honestly), but I didn't. I didn't use hyperbole when describing things even though I wanted to. It is really difficult when people don't stick to the topic and go off on some complete tangent of things and then insinuate I am the bad guy for sticking to the script.

Could I have been more gentle? Yes, but this is very frustrating to me--especially when Black Rose is saying things like all religion is based on power. The problem in some parts of it is that when I do try and be super chill about things it turns around to bite me in the ass.

Also, to act like I am 100% of the problem and Black Rose is the sacrificial lamb is not accurate either. Black Rose frequently tells me what I think in the most negative light that it could be and then tries to argue against that position. It seems like it is bad faith even if he is neurodivergant or whatever. To me, it feels like the kid behind you on the airplane who is kicking the back of your seat. You might put up with it for a while, but eventually, you are going to wonder what is wrong with the parents who you have already told several times that their child is kicking the back of the seat.

I don't think you're 100% of the problem, I just thought that comment could be received in a way that makes it too personal.

I can't remember when it was, it was around the time you joined, I remember that no matter how heated threads around religion would get you always cooly brushed it off, had a lot of patience and civility, and would take the higher road and rolemodel good behaviours. Those are qualities I know you have that I think are virtuous.

Yeah, all things considered, I could have handled it better. It's just hard to be misrepresented time after time.

 

[fractalwalrus]

You have people like @Kuu making 1,000 IQ posts and then you have people telling me I can't ask questions or cite sources.

SO WEIRD!

Let's try this and see where it goes.

It's not a war crime to ask a person some leading questions to see where their logic ends up in a debate. It's people who are either insecure or are representing a bad conclusion who don't like it when people ask questions. It seems insane to me to think that asking questions is somehow a power struggle dynamic or some shit. Truly mind-numbing stuff. Did your teachers in high school never ask the class any questions? Holy crap!

Don't even get me started on how insane it is that it is somehow morally reprehensible to cite a source. God forbid someone appeals to something besides their own authority on anything.

You know what, you would be correct to say that you should be able to ask leading questions and cite sources. Questions are a manner of provoking thought which should not provoke a defense mechanism in most people (unless they have been primed to see questions as a threat). I may have gotten off on the wrong foot with you because I made some hasty generalizations about religion (also a way of provoking thought, btw), but I agree with you on your points here. I do not know the exact history of the sources you cite, but the sources we use do matter. And which sources we use is a subject for another debate entirely. Epistemology is a thing.

 

[fractalwalrus]

Yeah I stopped following that debate.

Imo all that matters is that Kamala is, if not an actual card carrying Communist, at least someone dumb enough to have the ideological basis of one.

And that matters because it means she's not going to do anything to secure the USA's borders or reduce spending.

And that matters to me, as an Australian, because if the US economy goes into an inflationary death spiral ours is going down with it.

Are you familiar with the history of McCarthyism in this country? Do you really believe that a country whose government is controlled by corporations would let someone who posed a direct existential threat to them (as a real Communist would) even get remotely close to seizing power? You are way more optimistic than most if this is the case. The president here also has little power in the way of legislation drafting (though they can veto and can issue executive orders on legislation) As for inflation, you can thank the banking system and speculation for most of that, as well as the people who, you know, actually control the decision-making process when it comes to raising their prices. I am open to being persuaded here if I am wrong, though, Cog. You have a lot of very insightful things to add to the discussion here, so I would like your perspective on how inflation actually occurs (though one of your past posts may have illustrated this). Also, maybe it would be better for your country if you were less tied to the interests of the US if its collapse is something that you fear so much.